Adrian Smith: Iron Maiden's Guitarist on Fishing as Meditation and Life on Tour

Full transcript of the Tom Rowland Podcast, Episode 381, Adrian Smith...

A Preview: Fishing as Meditation

Adrian Smith: The more I wrote and the more I read it back, I realized how important fishing is to me, and how important it is to have that balance — especially when you go through rough times mentally. I think fishing is so good for your head. Like I say in the book, fishing is like meditation, but with a punchline. In other words, I could sit by a river, a lake, or wade flats all day, and I only think about fishing. You don't think about anything else. It really washes your mind and gets you ready to face the real world and your work. And obviously, being in the band, especially in the eighties, was quite a high-pressure environment, so I really found, increasingly, that fishing was a great way to balance myself out.

Meet Adrian Smith, Iron Maiden's Compulsive Angler

Tom Rowland: What's going on, everybody? Today is a big day. We've got a big guest — maybe the biggest guest we've ever had on the podcast. And some would say, what in the world does this guest have to do with fishing? The guest is Adrian Smith, the guitarist for Iron Maiden. Yeah, Iron Maiden, the heavy metal band, one of the biggest bands in the history of the world. Turns out Adrian Smith is quite a fisherman. He's a legit fisherman — he's fished all over the world.

He fished before Iron Maiden, then kind of lost interest in fishing for a while, and then, ironically, Iron Maiden rekindled his love affair with fishing. As they were traveling all over the world — in cars, buses, vans, and even the private jet they had — Adrian always had his rods and reels with him, in case there was any time he could sneak away and go fishing. He's done it all over the world, including in the United States — there are stories of him fishing alone in Miami. He doesn't always take a guide; he likes to go out and DIY it. It's just strange and crazy that one of the biggest musical stars in history would be out there on a riverbank by himself, just fishing because he loves it. And that was during Iron Maiden in the eighties — I don't think anyone outside of someone who's experienced something like that could truly understand how crazy and wild that time was. So I'm sure fishing offered him some sort of balance in his life, and I'm going to try to talk to him about that.

He recently wrote a book, Monsters of River and Rock: My Life as Iron Maiden's Compulsive Angler, by Adrian Smith. In it, he's got stories of fishing with his dad — that's how it started for him — with pictures of him as a young angler. Then, as we said, he lost track of fishing for a while as he got into music and different bands, before getting back into it. There's a photo of him fishing in Central Park in New York because they had a concert there — he traveled all over the world, and I just thought it was so cool that he was doing this. Here he is, one of the biggest rock bands of all time, taking his time off the stage to go fishing.

So I really wanted to talk to him about that once I found out he was releasing this book all about fishing. I thought, maybe I'll take a chance and reach out and see if I can get him. Turns out — there he is with a really good bonefish in Turks and Caicos, and there he is as the guitarist of Iron Maiden. Very iconic images. If you're an Iron Maiden fan, I think you'll like this book, because you'll see that Adrian had a life outside the band — something quiet, something completely different — and that was fishing. If you're a fisherman who knows of Iron Maiden, which pretty much everyone would, or if you're just a fan of music and a fisherman, you're going to like this book too, because about 70% of it is about fishing — real stories about how he caught some big fish, trips he's taken, side trips from concerts, and places he's fished all over the place. Really looking forward to talking to him.

I'm a little nervous — I hope I don't mess this up. I'd received a copy of the book and read it cover to cover on an airplane, and I loved it. I took notes and had all sorts of things I wanted to talk to him about. Then, today, I found out the interview was only going to be fifteen minutes. So right before I hit record on this intro, waiting for the phone call, I had to come up with what I thought were the three questions I most wanted to ask Adrian Smith. I had to ditch my previous homework and my whole game plan for how I thought this interview would go, because usually, if you listen to this podcast a lot, the interviews are an hour, an hour and a half, even two hours sometimes, and there's room for a more casual conversation. This one, I was going to have to ask very specific questions and get right to the point to get the information I wanted from Adrian very quickly. I'm not very well practiced at that — I'm practiced at a two-hour interview or an hour interview — so I hope I can do well on a fifteen-minute one. We were waiting for him to call, and that could happen any minute.

Podcast News and Listener Stories

Tom Rowland: While we wait for the call, I've got some news to go over. I'm really excited about it, and I hope you are too. First, we just completely redid the Tom Rowland Podcast website — you can go check it out at tomrowlandpodcast.com. One of the things I didn't like about the old site is that, with 400 episodes now, it was getting difficult to find what you might be looking for as a new listener, and we're picking up new listeners all the time. The show has continued to grow since the day we started it, and that's all thanks to you guys sharing it with your friends and telling people about the show. I've done very little to promote it beyond trying to get good guests and good content — you've done the rest, so thank you.

As we pick up new listeners, they come from all walks of life. This is kind of a fishing podcast — that's what I do — and we have a lot of fishermen on here, but we also have hunters, YouTubers, people making a living in the outdoors, and people who've had success and failures in all different walks of life. I like to do that because I feel like we can learn from all of these people; if they've had success in any walk of life, you can apply lessons from it to your own life. We look to the military a lot too — we've had a lot of military operators on, Navy SEALs, and we just had Nick Lavery and a Green Beret on, along with Chris Smith of the Trident Mindset and Jamie Caldwell — outstanding operators, each with a mindset for success, and I like to learn from them as well as from athletes and authors. So when we get new listeners from anywhere, the question becomes where do they start — and that was a flaw I saw in how the old website was organized. It seemed difficult to look through the subjects and guests and find a place to start. Hopefully the new navigation is cleaner and a new listener can find what they're looking for.

We also have all kinds of stuff going on as we get ready for the 2021 season of Saltwater Experience. We've filmed almost all of our shows, though we've had things canceled because of the hurricanes and bad weather in the Keys lately. But we're pretty much ready to go, with some great shows on the way. Those will debut on Waypoint, and they'll be on Discovery Channel in the second quarter, and on Sportsman's Channel all year, along with SunSports. If you don't have Waypoint, you might want to download the app — it's free on any device, and you can watch not only our shows but everybody else's. There's a good amount of educational content coming to Waypoint too — C.A. Richardson's been doing a lot of flats-class universities over there, and he does a great job of educating. Even the video podcast is on Waypoint, and you can also find it on Samsung Plus, Tubi, Pluto, and other channels, not just on demand but live-streaming as well. So that's what's going on with the television show and the podcast — we've been having some great guests, and I'm really excited and ready to rock and roll for 2021. If you have a guest you think would be great, or you think you should be on the show, send me an email — let's talk about your story and see if we can get you on.

Some of the most popular episodes we've done have been with guides like David Cohen — a regular guy who had a dream to become a guide, and he did it. A lot of people found inspiration in that, and so many more. Another popular one is Justin Napier — same kind of deal. He got his captain's license and started guiding, and people loved his story. Someone reached out to me recently who found him through the podcast, went down there, and had a great trip. I love hearing that. So if you're someone with a cool story you want to tell, or you think other people would gain something from it, send me an email at podcast@saltwaterexperience.com, or make another suggestion.

The Interview Begins

Tom Rowland: Man, we did this almost perfectly — we were waiting on this phone call, and I was getting ready, with my list of questions for Adrian. Hopefully this was going to go really smoothly. And here it is — actually, here's the phone call right now, which just worked out perfectly. So here we go.

Tom Rowland: Adrian, how are you?

Adrian Smith: I'm very well, thank you. How are you?

Tom Rowland: I'm doing great. I just had a chance to read your book — it was fantastic. I loved it. Really, coming from someone who makes his living in fishing, I was particularly impressed with a couple of things. One, you're able to fish with all different types of tackle — from center pin to bait caster, spinning rods, fly rods, you really do it all, and you like to do most of it. You had a lot of stories about guides, but also a lot of stories about you just single-handing it, doing this by yourself, all while touring with a band. I thought that was super cool.

Adrian Smith: Yeah, I've been lucky enough to travel and visit a lot of very interesting places, and fish a lot of them. I do like a variety of fishing, and tackling different sorts of disciplines. I love bonefishing, fly fishing, but I also love fishing just locally where I live in England, for the coarse fish here as well. So, yeah, I enjoy it all, really. The only thing I don't really like is deep sea fishing — I just get really seasick out there.

Tom Rowland: Do you?

Adrian Smith: Well, I get that a lot, I miss it.

Tom Rowland: Flats fishing is fantastic for that — you can get a taste of it without having to get very far offshore. I enjoyed the bonefishing stories in the book. You had so many stories, and I know you're on a pretty short time schedule, so I'm going to skip over a lot of the questions I'd like to ask. I have a tremendous amount of questions — I've got to admit, I'm a fan, and reading your book about fishing makes me even more of one.

Adrian Smith: Oh, cool.

Tom Rowland: I just wonder, for someone who leads such an incredible life, why did you choose to spend your time writing this book about fishing? Why was that so important to you?

Adrian Smith: Well, it just came about. I was always sitting around with friends, telling them stories, and they suggested I write a book. So I wrote a couple of test chapters and took them to publishers, and Penguin got interested and said I should go ahead and write it. It just kind of flowed. I really enjoyed writing about my life — going fishing with my dad when I was a kid, stopping when I discovered music, and then getting back into it when I joined Iron Maiden, ironically. I've been very lucky, so once I started writing, it just came, it sort of flowed.

Tom Rowland: Did you have journals or anything to look back on, or was this all out of memory?

Adrian Smith: Not really. Luckily, I've got a pretty good memory, which is reasonably intact after a few years. I have so many great — they tend to burn into my mind, these fishing trips especially, and I remember a lot about them. The things that happen when you're a kid — when you lose that big fish as a kid, you never forget things like that. And I suppose it's the old adage that if you can't remember it, it's probably not worth worrying about. So it's all pretty much from memory, plus photographs — I don't have many from when I was a kid, but I have a lot from the eighties and nineties onward, and they bring back memories. You can piece it together — like there's a story about a fish we have here called a barbel, a kind of very strong, mysterious fish. They look a bit like the suckers you have over there, but they're a different species, and they're very sought-after and revered in this country. When I was a kid, about twelve or thirteen, an older guy caught one and let me hold it for a picture, but I always felt a slight fraud because I didn't catch the fish myself. So that was one of my missions, once I had some time after touring — I wanted to catch a barbel myself. That story is in the book: the old picture was in black and white, and then I caught my own barbel, and it was in color. It's the story of getting from one to the other, and everything that happened in between.

Carp, Barbel, and the British Fishing Tradition

Tom Rowland: Right, yeah, I remember that story from the book. One of the things I also remember — I don't know a tremendous amount about carp fishing, but I am a bit of a fishing historian, and I like to read the record books — is that there was a gentleman named Richard Walker, who you refer to as Dick Walker in your book. He caught a forty-four-pound common carp, which was a hugely significant record, and then in one of your stories, you and your brother tie that record. That made me wonder — of all the stories you talked about and wrote in your book, and maybe some that didn't even make it, what do you think your proudest angling accomplishment might be?

Adrian Smith: Oh, can I just say — is this an American fishing podcast? I think it's important to note that when we talk about carp to Americans, they don't really get it, and I understand that, because it's almost like a different fish here. Although it's physiologically the same, the habitat is very different. There weren't nearly as many carp here as there are in America — I didn't realize that until I went to America. They're very widespread there, they overpopulate the waters, and they're very easy to catch. In England, there aren't so many of them, and they can be very wary. They get very big, they inhabit very inhospitable, snaggy waters, and they're difficult to catch — especially back in the fifties and sixties, when there were nowhere near as many carp as there are today. That's the reason carp are more revered in England than in the States, and I've only just come to realize how important that is. As far as an angling achievement — I don't know if there's a single thing, but there are some things I'd still like to do, and a double-digit bonefish is definitely one of them.

Tom Rowland: I know a place you can do that.

Adrian Smith: Well, I know they have big ones in the Keys, but they're probably pretty rare.

Tom Rowland: The Keys, for so long, were the place where almost all the records came from — the Keys and Bimini. We had a tremendous number of really big fish in downtown Islamorada, but we lost a lot of them in a cold front. They're coming back now, though, and we're starting to see more and more big bonefish. What about tarpon — have you fished for tarpon?

Adrian Smith: No. For some reason — tarpon is like a team operation, isn't it? I like the thing about bonefish — it's very solitary, it's really you against the elements and the fish, and it can be quite challenging. Tarpon just seems like — I don't know if I'd like to play a fish for an hour.

Tom Rowland: Well, you don't have to catch the biggest one — before the fish does.

Adrian Smith: Before the fish does, exactly.

Tom Rowland: That happens a lot. You don't always have to fish for the biggest one — we have juvenile tarpon anywhere from five to fifty pounds, and that can be as good a fight as a bonefish. They're a good fish; I think you'd enjoy it.

Adrian Smith: I've caught smaller ones on the fly. I caught one in Puerto Rico, actually, in the lagoon there, fishing with a guide on live bait — that was about fifteen to twenty pounds. But yeah, that was pretty amazing.

Peacock Bass, Bonefish, and Fish Still on the List

Tom Rowland: As you continue to travel, are there fish you'd like to catch in the future that you haven't had exposure to yet?

Adrian Smith: Well, I really enjoyed the peacock bass fishing down in Florida, actually — Miami and the canals, I love doing that. It can be quite challenging as well; I wrote a whole chapter about Miami in the book, because that's where we rehearse for our American tours, so I always take my rods down there, knowing there's going to be some good fishing opportunities. The peacock bass don't get very big in the canals, but I know they get big in South America, so that's something I'd like to try one day — take a houseboat up the Amazon and try to find some big peacocks.

Tom Rowland: That's a trip on my list as well — I haven't done it, but I'd certainly like to. If you get back to Florida and want to do some peacock bass fishing, I've got friends who have that dialed in — I'd love to meet you and fish with you one day. We could do the peacock bass and then slide down and catch some bonefish in the Keys too. I really like this book — I'd say a good seventy to eighty percent of it is fishing-related stories, but then you add little tidbits about the band, how you got started, how the touring was going, and the balance that fishing seemed to offer against this very different lifestyle of being in one of the biggest rock bands the world's ever seen. Do you think about that balance? It seems like you reflect on it a good bit in the book — what fishing was offering you, like a quiet riverbank as opposed to a coliseum full of Iron Maiden fans.

Fishing as Meditation, With a Punchline

Adrian Smith: Well, yeah. The more I wrote, and the more I read it back, I realized how important fishing is to me, and how important it is to have that balance, especially when you go through rough times mentally. I think fishing is so good for your head. Like I say in the book, fishing is like meditation, but with a punchline. In other words, I could sit by a river, a lake, or wade flats all day, and I only think about fishing — you don't think about anything else. It really washes your mind and gets you ready to face the real world and your work. And obviously, being in the band, especially in the eighties, was quite a high-pressure environment, so I really found, increasingly, that fishing was a great way to balance myself out. And the more I wrote in the book, the more and more that became obvious.

Tom Rowland: Do you think you'd have had the longevity in the rock and roll world if it weren't for fishing, now that you're reflecting on it like this?

Adrian Smith: Oh, I don't know — it's a good question. It's certainly brought me a lot of pleasure, a lot of happiness, a lot of satisfaction. It has so many benefits — I can't think of any negative ones, although sometimes it can get a little obsessive. But I suppose that's like anything that gives you a buzz, whether it's alcohol or golf — some guys go off the deep end with golf. You can get a good bit obsessive, and sometimes you have to rein yourself in. It's such an adrenaline rush too — people don't realize how much of one it is, especially with something like bonefishing, when you're closing in on a fish, trying to get in the right position to cast while the fish is moving. It takes a hell of — well, sometimes you're really pumped up. People think you just sit there dangling a worm, which you can if you want, that's fine too, but there are so many different ways to fish, in so many places, so many different environments. It's infinite variety, really.

The Simple Life: English Rivers and Home Water

Tom Rowland: So, of all those places — we'll draw this to a close, I know you have somewhere to be — of all the places, all the species, all the types of tackle we've discussed, if you had one you could do for the rest of your life, what would it be?

Adrian Smith: Good question. Good question. Well, there's no place like home — I love the English countryside, I love small rivers. Just walking, taking one rod, maybe a box of worms, a little bread, and walking the length of the river on a winter's day, when it's not too cold but overcast, good conditions, a little extra water in the river — I could do that for the rest of my life, probably quite happily. We fish here for a silverfish that goes up to five or six pounds called a chub, which is good fun — they're very aggressive, hard-fighting, chub and barbel. So I could probably do that if I had to.

Tom Rowland: That's funny, because with the world at your disposal, traveling with a band, you can pretty much fish anywhere you want, and so often, people who've done a lot of fishing revert back to the simplest form. For me, it would be crickets in a john boat with my dad, fishing for bluegill in Tennessee — that's the simplest kind of thing, and there's always a soft spot in your heart for that. But then you have the bonefish, the tarpon, or the permit that really makes your knees wobble, a different kind of adrenaline experience. So you've got one on either side.

Adrian Smith: More of a physical challenge, I mean, catching those things — and sturgeon. We went out and fished for sturgeon on the Fraser River in Canada, and that was like a battle of strength with this monstrous fish. I wrote about it in the book — it was the day after a show we did in Vancouver. I'd planned the trip, met the guide, went out in a jet boat, and fished for sturgeon, and they literally pull your arms off, even the smaller ones. I had a show the next night, and I thought, am I even going to be able to play? My arms were killing me. But, of course, I did. That's a physical, team kind of job — I'm not sure I enjoy catching giant fish as much, big fish. But there's so much more to fishing than just catching the fish — it's everything. Just loading up your car as the day's breaking, putting your tackle in, driving off somewhere — the anticipation is such a major part of it. And you can tune into that even when you're not fishing. I start the book with a story about being in a police escort on the way to a show in Mexico City, total chaos, crashes everywhere, people shouting — and I'm on my way to a show, and I just put the seat back, close my eyes, and pretend I'm fishing. That's a great thing about fishing — you can switch off and just meditate.

Wrapping Up

Tom Rowland: Man, that was great — I loved that part of the book, the way it started, and the way you segued between fishing and your other life, which seems so different. You said at one point in the book that your friends didn't quite understand fishing, and maybe now that you've written this book, they would. Have you had any —

Adrian Smith: You know what, a lot of people have said to me — a lot of people who don't fish have read it and enjoyed it. Maybe they won't become fishermen, but they can appreciate what I was trying to get across, because I was aware that a lot of people who don't go fishing would probably check the book out because of the band. I wanted them to get an insight into it, rather than just saying “I caught this and I caught that” — a little bit of background on why I do it and why it's important to me, and hopefully that comes across. From the feedback I've had — on the other hand, there are some hardcore chapters that are just about fishing, because I thought it was important to include those for the guys who are really into the fishing side of it.

Tom Rowland: Well, I think it's really cool. Adrian, if you find yourself with more time, I would love to have you back on the podcast to ask more questions and get further into your story. But thank you so much for your time. The book is called Monsters of River and Rock: My Life as Iron Maiden's Compulsive Angler, by Adrian Smith. Thank you very much — I'm sure we'll have everybody go check that out. Hopefully we can do this again someday.

Adrian Smith: Yeah, I'd like to. Thanks for having me on, and maybe we could do a part two or something.

Tom Rowland: I'd love it. Anytime you've got time, you're welcome.

Adrian Smith: Okay, thank you very much.

Tom Rowland: Alright, thank you, Adrian.

Adrian Smith: Bye.

Tom Rowland: Bye. Wow, man, that was really cool talking to Adrian Smith. Obviously, he could have talked fishing all day — the guy loves fishing. He mentioned that maybe we could do a part two, so we're definitely going to try to make that happen; I'm going to work on scheduling that right now. If you want to check out this book, it's available everywhere — Monsters of River and Rock: My Life as Iron Maiden's Compulsive Angler, by Adrian Smith of Iron Maiden. That is awesome. I've read the book cover to cover, and it's a great book — a great book if you're a fisherman, a great book if you're a fan of the band, and a great book if you're just aware of the band and think it might be cool that one of them, or more than one of them, had a life outside of being a rock star.

That was super cool, man. I just wish we'd had more time — I had so many other things I wanted to ask him, but there might be a part two. Alright, so if you liked this, share it with a friend and rate and review it on iTunes. Support our sponsors — that's the best way you can promote the podcast, by buying something from them. That's how it works. Alright, so that's it for today, and we'll be back next week with another awesome guest. Thanks — see you.