Capt. Peter Deeks: 100,000 Miles, Following the Fish, and Filming With Bill Dance

Full transcript of the Tom Rowland Podcast, Episode 409 — Capt. Peter Deeks — Going the Extra 100,000 Miles as a South Florida Fishing Guide.

Introduction

Peter Deeks: I feel like in life, if you do things not out of selfish ambition, eventually, it catches up to you and and you do great things or at least people like you.

Tom Rowland: Yeah.

Peter Deeks: And all about relationships. You know, if if people like you, they pick you up when they go up and you kind of rise up together. And like you said, Bill Dance helped you. Well, Bill was a good guy and that got him favor. And you're a good guy and that got you favor with Bill Dance. So I feel like if if you do things for others and work hard, it'll eventually catch up. Maybe not overnight, but, you know, you meet good people along the way. This is Captain Peter Deeks with the Tom Roland podcast.

Tom Rowland: What's going on, everybody? We got a great show for you this week. I have heard so many things about our guest today. Captain Peter Deeks is a fishing guide in South Florida, and he has a very wide operational area. He fishes for all different kinds of fish. He is Bill Dance's go to guy. I'm gonna find out how that happened. They filmed a number of shows together. He also does a lot of work with Salt Strong and gives, some great information through the Salt Strong platform. He's got a 24 yellowfin that's wrapped with Salt Strong. You may know him on Instagram as captain Peter Deeks, d e e k s, and, he's just a a great guy that I wanted to get to know. I've never actually met him, so we're gonna get to know one another over this podcast, and, hopefully, that will extend into fishing together and doing some other stuff together in the future. Because I know with the recommendations that I've had from Peter or from Bill and, some other people that I know, I think he's an overall really good dude, so let's find out. Here's Peter Deeks. Peter, what's up? How are you?

Peter Deeks: Hey. Good morning, Tom. Doing good.

Tom Rowland: Man, excited. Yeah. Thanks. I appreciate it. I've heard so many nice things about you, and it's this is the first time that we've ever gotten to meet, I think. And, it's really good to put put put it all together because, the things that I've heard have not only been nice things, but they've also come from people that that I have a good amount of respect for. And, that would be Joe Simons, of course, and Bill Dance, which I know that you're kinda close with both of those people. Mhmm. Yeah. So what about, what what tell me about what your your kind of mode of operation is.

Covering 80,000 Miles a Year as a Fishing Guide

Tom Rowland: Where do you live? How what's your area of of fishing?

Peter Deeks: Okay. Sure. So I live in Merritt Island, which is kind of the East Central Part of Florida. I'm a fishing guy. I also own a hunting outfitter where we do, like, alligator hunts and kind of the best of what Florida has to offer. So that keeps me really busy, but I also get the opportunity to do some fishing shows with, like, Bill Dance, and I also teach, fishing courses and educational videos for Salt Strong. Yeah. So I kinda live the the whole fishing life, and, it's kind of what I've always known. And, and I love it.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. So out of Merritt Island, are you going both north and south out of there? And, I mean, you seem to have one of the things that I learned about you when I was kinda asking around, in preparation for this is that that you're known as a really versatile guide, and you also are known as somebody that has a pretty wide, area of operation. So how do you how do you work that north and south kinda?

Peter Deeks: I do. So it's kind of an interesting story, but, just to kinda fast forward through the beginning of it. So about maybe seven years ago, I was guiding, and I was trying to find my own, trying to find my niche. A lot of things had happened in the economy. A lot of the fishing tournaments that I really kind of depended on went away. And so I went full bore into guiding. And, honestly, I was a little bit, like, lost because I didn't wanna ever be a fishing guide that just focuses on, like, one thing in one marina. Right? Because, like, if the fish is slow, then it's slow. So I was like, well, what if I really prayed on it, and I was like, what if I just went all in? Like, it didn't matter how much money I spent. It didn't matter how many motors I went through. I'd put a lot of mileage on my cars, but I I would just follow the fish. And, and that year, the first year was really special. I caught so many incredible fish. I did some incredible shows with Bill Dance. We caught, like, I think we caught, like, 11 and a half pound trout on one show and a couple 40 inch snook on another. And it was just, like, really eye opening that if you go all in, like, the rewards are pretty incredible. So that I've kind of applied that to my guiding now. So, like, every day is like a tournament. So, for instance, if a if a client calls, they're like, I kinda let them pick the species we wanna target, but I'll travel as far south as Palm Beach, and I'll travel as far north as, like, let's say, Daytona. So I put about about 80,000 miles in my truck if you're trailing my boats.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. Wow. That's pretty good. 80,000 miles, that taught a you do have a wide wide area of operation. When you say you you said that you kind of had some tournaments that you were depending on. What kind of tournaments were those?

Growing Up on the Tournament Trail

Peter Deeks: So that's what I loved doing when I was young. So when I was like, I saw I grew up on the Indian River. I had the best parents, and and I'm I was homeschooled, and I really focused on fishing all the time. I had a little John boat, fished all over. And when I was about, I guess, 10 to 15, that was, like, the peak of the the tournament trails. Redfish, Tarpon. There was a lot of excitement in my area. Mosquito Lagoon was really popping.

Tom Rowland: Mhmm.

Peter Deeks: I remember following you. I remember seeing you guys doing really well in these tournaments, the Redfish tournaments, the FLW, and then we had, like, the IFA and, other ones pre that. And so it was really cool. I talked to my dad and some other friends, because I was too young to fish them alone, the fishing these and to be able to compete with guys like you that was that were, like, just ahead of me, that were just killing it. And to me, fishing was life, and it was and and to to be a part of those tournaments was really special. So about when when I graduated college is when I decided to go full time into fishing tournaments. That's right when all the tournaments went away, when the economy kind of, like, made a lot of sponsors pull out. And so that's when I turned to guiding.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. That's interesting because those tournaments, they do a lot for you as far as kind of it's it's kind of making a lot more sense, like, how you have such a wide area of operation. Because if you're if you're a tournament fisherman, especially in those redfish tournaments, you're moving around and exploring new water and learning it very, very quickly and being able to be successful in that water. And it's always interesting to me how you could have those redfish tournaments, and you would move into someone else's home water. And you would see these guys from Louisiana or a lot of Florida guys could dissect that water and, just do better than even the local guys. It was amazing. And I couldn't I I just really couldn't understand how they were doing it. You take a guy like Andrew Bostick, and he would barely go, you know, a few miles from the ramp. Me and Rich, we're always like, man, we gotta go to some place we know. So we would go you know, we no boat ride was was out of range. Like, we would just fill up with gas and go to the closest place that we kinda felt comfortable with. But other people had different strategies of just like, man, the fish are here, and we're just gonna apply the techniques that we know and and see if we can figure them out. That's that makes a lot more sense how you can how you can move through that big area. Because in that big area, you're only able to fish it. I mean, it's not like you're there every single day. So you're kind of showing up and kind of being pretty dialed in without having been there for maybe a week. Right?

Peter Deeks: Yeah. And it's very similar year after year. Within a week, the same thing will happen, I've noticed. So kind of in Florida, and I'm sure you've seen, like, it'll slide a little earlier, a little late, but, you know, within a week or two, it'll line up the same as that date the year before. Mhmm. And and, you know, after a while, it's just it kinda cut us, but it's exciting. I mean, you you have your failure days, but at the same time, like, every day is exciting for me because, you know, you're always fish that next level fish. You know?

Tom Rowland: Right. So when you decided to kinda start the guiding because the tournaments weren't weren't happening, and you decided to go all in, you mentioned that a couple of times. Like, what if I just went all in? Like, what was the other alternative? Just kinda hanging out at a marina, having your boat in the water, and just sticking staying in a small area and being kind of like the the local guide versus putting it all together?

Going All In on Guiding

Peter Deeks: Yeah. So leaving out of the same boat ramp or the same marina every day and, you know, eight months out of the year, if you're a really good fisherman, you can catch really good fish no matter where you live, but you're gonna have four months out of the year where it's really slow. And, I mean, it's hard to wake up in the morning being a fishing guide knowing it's low and charging those people money. Plus it gets old. It's boring. I probably wouldn't be a fishing guide if I hadn't done it here. I would do something else.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. What do you think you'd be doing?

Peter Deeks: I don't know. I actually went to school. I was premed in college, and, I decided my senior year instead of going in medical school, I was doing really well in the fishing tournaments, my mind, and and I was sponsored by a couple of boat companies and for one boat company that had a couple other models inside that boat. And, it was exciting. And I was like, I'm gonna do this instead of, medical school. So I probably would've went back to something like that.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. Medical school. That's a similar story to to Bill Dance. Like, he was one of my first guests on the podcast. I just really wanted I mean, he was, like, top of the list. But that's what he thought he was gonna do, be a doctor. Like, that was in his that was in his, in his family history. Like, his his he was kinda destined to be a doctor, and then instead, he becomes a becomes a fisherman.

Peter Deeks: That's pretty

Tom Rowland: Kind of just just another fisherman. But Bill Bill's a Bill's a good guy. What was your how did you get hooked up with him?

How Peter Connected with Bill Dance

Peter Deeks: So, yeah, I feel like all things are kinda planned out ahead of you. Like, it's kind of destined. So with Bill Dance, I was just guiding, and a friend of mine knew him really well, Mike Tipton. And Mike kept asking me to go fishing with Bill. He's like, he's in town. Why don't you go? And and you know as well as I do, like, when you're a guide for a fishing show, a lot of times, if you have a bad host, it makes you look bad, and it's very frustrating, and you're kinda sacrificing a lot of time. So I've been burnt on a few shows, and I didn't really wanna deal with Bill. I didn't know him. And I finally said yes, and we did one show up in Titusville. And, like, right away, you could just tell he was super gen like, just a genuine man. He was so kind. And, and we did well that day. And he's like, what if I stayed another day? Could we do another show tomorrow? And I said, sure. And then he stayed a third day. We did a third show. And since then, we've become super close friends. He's one of my best friends, and, I'm very fortunate and thankful for that opportunity.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. Yeah. He's he's he's like that. I mean, you could you could probably go around the industry, and ask a whole bunch of people what they thought about Bill Dance, and you would get many similar, stories to yours. I mean, he's just a I mean, he's he's been a mentor to me. He has helped me when others wouldn't. And, he's just always been super genuine and super nice, and, I don't know. He's a he's like a good role model for for everyone to follow, not just in his successes that he's had, but just the way that he handles himself. He's a he's a good dude. He So do you, do you fish, with him every year? Like, you've kind of gone you've gotten to be kind of his go to saltwater guy.

Peter Deeks: Yeah. So, like, this last year, we filmed I think we filmed, like, seven shows. So we'll end up doing every year probably, like, four to four to eight shows. And so, it's become a an annual event. And, you know, sometimes he'll stay here for, like, a month, and we'll do a whole lot of shows, and get to fish together. And we just I'm just I am so genuinely thankful for his friendship and everything that he's done for me. But, like, the one thing that he's done for a lot of people is he connects you with other people. And so he introduced me to Bob Bagby, who we both know Yeah. Pretty well. And, and so Bill was like, I've got a really important friend that I wanna do a show with, and he's a sponsor, and we have to do really well. We put a lot of pressure on it. And I was like, okay. And so he but he's talking it up like it's like it's the it's a big deal. And I I guess it was for him. And so we did a snook show, and so here comes Bob. Here's Bob Bagby. And, honestly, like, my first impression of him, not throwing him on the bus, but he was like, he stepped on the boat like he was king. And he was like he was like, hey, guy and boy. Like, you know, go get a drink. Go put another bait on my hook. And he was, like, bossing around. I was like, I kept looking at them like, who is this guy? And but by the end of the day, he was, like, the greatest guy ever. And, and we we finished another show the next day, which is probably the best show that I've ever done. We caught at the first stop, we caught, like, four snook over 45 inches. And since then, Bob has become a super close friend, and he's such a genuinely kind person. He's so nice. And he's introduced me to, captains like RT Trosset down in The Keys. And, so good friends with him. He's taught me a lot. And Carter Andrews and, you know, just that network of, like, the elite. Like, the elite in the fishing industry, they're they're genuinely incredibly good people. There's a lot of, like, fat beneath them, but Creedon rises to the top. So you've got, like, yourself, and then you've got Arti Tras and these legendary captains, and they're all just they're such good people. And they've helped me with with so many things, and, I'm thankful. But it really kind of started with, with Bill Dance.

Why Good People Rise to the Top

Tom Rowland: Yeah. Why do you think that is? I mean, I have my I have my theories about, why people the the people that you mentioned, what makes them kind of or or or allows success because you're a good person or because I don't know. Do you have any theories on on why that that elite group of people kinda rises to the top like that, and then they all happen to be pretty nice guys?

Peter Deeks: I feel like in life, if you do things not out of selfish ambition, eventually, it catches up to you and and you do great things, or at least people like you.

Tom Rowland: Yeah.

Peter Deeks: And all about relationships. You know? If if people like you, they pick you up when they go up, and you kind of rise up together. And like you said, Bill Dance helped you. Well, Bill was a good guy, and that got him favor. And you're a good guy, and that got you favor with Bill Dance. So I feel like if if you do things for others and work hard, it'll eventually catch up. Maybe not overnight, but, you know, you meet good people along the way.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. For sure. I was kinda thinking that you take somebody like like Trosset or, so many of the others, and they're guides. Like, their business for so many years was just taking people fishing. You're on a, you know, 16 to 30 foot boat, and it's you and someone else. And not only do you have to catch fish, but you also have to keep people entertained. And and, you know, if you're not real genuine about what you're doing, it's gonna come out before the eight hour mark. Like, you know, you're you're only gonna be able to fake that for so long. And then if you're really into it, then I don't know. It it becomes a very genuine kind of kinda thing, but I always kinda think it's funny when people are, like, starstruck by some of these people that that I know as fishing guides. And I'm like, dude, the guy is a fishing guide. His his his business was to meet people on the dock and shake hands with them and talk to talk to a complete stranger. Like, that is how he got business for a long time. He could he could talk to anyone. He's gonna be he's gonna be the nicest guy you've ever met. Like, that's just the way that's the the MO. You know what I mean? Like, when you're when you're guiding, you just become, like, this entertainer as much as you become an educator and a therapist and all of these other things that go along with with being a professional fishing guide. But that's that's cool.

Peter Deeks: Yeah.

Tom Rowland: Those guys, Bagby, I had him on the show recently, and and we were talking about just kinda sponsorship and how it goes. And he was definitely one of my first and earliest, sponsors with Quantum. And I I got hooked up with him through Shaw Grigsby, who is another phenomenal guy that is, just just the nicest guy ever. And, and he hooked me up with Bob. And, I just remember the first phone call with Bob, and I was just like, wow. This is so weird. And I had this picture in my head of what Bob might look like, and then I met him. And he was entirely different than I thought he was gonna look like. I don't I don't know. I just had many, many conversations with him on the phone, and then he came to fish with me. And I was like, wait. Who are you? Like, you're you're kinda tall and skinny, and I thought you're gonna be kinda short and pudgy. And I don't know why I had this image of him in my mind, but it just was was a different image. And, but but he's he has always been such a such a great guy. And as with all the people that he worked with over there, John Kuchnerik, did you ever work with him? He was he was a great guy too, but, yeah. Good times. Good times. So with, when when you started the tournaments and then you move into the guiding, what do you kinda is there something that you kind of attribute the success that you've had to? Like, do you, like, keep real good records, or do you do something that other people are not doing?

The Secret to Success: Preparation and Going the Extra Mile

Peter Deeks: I think I try to to plan everything out in advance. So, like, if I'm gonna do a charter in a week, I'm already thinking about it now. So you have the right date or the lures. We're gonna go to the right spot. The rods and reels are gonna be rigged up for you to go. You're gonna have the right boat. I think that the biggest failure in my own life is if I don't have enough preparation, and you show up and you don't have the right date or you have the wrong boat and you can't make that run. So, I I think honestly, like, just going the extra mile and and having extra preparation is is really all it takes for me to to have a fairly successful charter business and to make it more fun on the water. Because for instance, like if you're permit fishing or or you're not, let's just say you're you you might see permit, you're running out to a wreck, you're gonna be cobia fishing. But in the back of your mind, you're like, well, maybe and you get out there, and there's a huge full permit beat on our crabs.

Tom Rowland: Right.

Peter Deeks: And and you're just like, if I only had some crabs, we would have crushed it. So it's it's listening to that voice and going the extra mile and making sure you have the right bait, and it it usually pays off. And I noticed there's a lot of fishing guides and recreational anglers alike, but they don't do that. They just kinda go the easy route, and it ends up biting them.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. And when you say it ends up biting them, like, just because they show up with it, you know, kind of somewhat unprepared or in the long run, it ends up biting them?

Peter Deeks: It both. So, you know, most of my clients, not necessarily word-of-mouth. It's the same people that fish with me every year. And some people book. I mean, I have one couple. They would book a month every year. And that's because you're consistently successful at giving them a good time. And people pick up on on preparation and they pick up on whether you care or not. So, you know, by making sure you have the right date and that you're always on the fish and you're going the extra mile, people realize that. So the people that don't, you're gonna lose that customer, and you're gonna get a bad reputation. And, you know, it's gonna bite you in the long run, and it's gonna bite you in the short term because you may not get a big tip that day.

Tom Rowland: What do you think about, like, when you're moving so much and you're gonna drive an hour and a half, and then maybe you're gonna maybe you're gonna get in your boat, and you're gonna run, you know, a pretty good run even outside of that. So there's there's thoughts about, fuel. There's thoughts about expenses. There's thoughts about maybe I I could probably make more money if I just stayed at home and and, you know, didn't run very far. I know that that's something that that is is definitely a consideration for a guy that, you know, is a kind of business thinking person. Like, I'm gonna try to run as little as possible. I'm gonna try to catch as the best fish I can in this small area versus what you're doing. How do you how do you kinda weigh that out in your mind?

Peter Deeks: The first couple years that I really did that was scary because I did kind of go upside down. I knew, you know, like, you wanna sell your motors every year at the lowest amount of hours. You want you don't wanna put a 100,000 miles on your truck. You don't wanna spend x amount of dollars in bait. So, yeah, it was a little bit scary, but it was pretty much pretty much my only option. And, but but since then, what has happened just in my own personal life, and I think it'll happen with others is, like, once you gain success, then then there's help along the way. So, like, without my sponsors and friends, you know, now I don't have to pay for my own equipment. Now I don't have to pay for motors and things like that. So I'm able to go the But it is scary at first because you don't make much money if you have to pay for everything.

Tom Rowland: Right. Yeah. That's something for for young guides to consider. And I remember being in that situation and just kind of having the same kind of feeling that you did. Like, you know what? This is my responsibility to put my clients on the fish. And if they're 40 miles away, then that's where I have to go, or I have to get better at this area right around the boat ramp. Like, if I wanna if I want to save money and, be very efficient, then I need to place my focus on that area and learn how to catch the best fish right there. So that when I think about all these different places I could go, that's where I wanna be, like, right there. And there is that. I mean, you can do that, and that would be kind of the advice that that I would give to to a young guide that was really worrying about how much how much they're spending would be something like that. Like, you know, you may it may be easier to catch them for you at this stage of your career way away with a long run, but that doesn't mean that they're not right next to the boat ramp. Good fish. And and you might be getting, like, other guides that are taking a two hour boat ride to the boat ramp and fishing right there where you're putting in. And it seems like a long way for them, but it's right in front. I saw that just like we were talking about with people like Andrew Bostick in those tournaments is they would never go he would never go very far. And his his feeling was, like, all all the time that I'm running, I'm not fishing. And Right. If I just fish, I'm gonna run into a good fish. And that's and and all you only need two in the tournament. That's a little different than a guide than a guide day. Right. That's that's an interesting kinda thing with with with your tournament experience and your guiding experience. And you're you're obviously a great entertainer, and you can show a lot of people a a really good time because they they keep coming back and booking months at a time. That's a real, sign of of somebody that's doing really well. How do you see a tournament day being different than a than a guide day? What is success in a tournament versus success as a guide?

Tournament Days vs. Guide Days

Peter Deeks: It's an interesting perspective that I actually think about often. So I treat I try to treat every charter like a tournament. Like, it's like, I have something personal to gain. It's not just taking someone out for four or five hours. But the difference is you have to make, as a guide, your customers have a really great time no matter what. So you have to prioritize, and you have to identify each client and each angler on what they want. So maybe you wanna go catch giant tarpon, but your client probably would be better off catching snook. Like, you have to pick up on that and and really cater to them. So you're trying to get them to catch what they wanna catch, not making them live the day that you wanna give them.

Tom Rowland: Yeah.

Peter Deeks: But applying techniques, like you said, like, going back to, like, you know, fishing small is so important. So whether you make that long run or that long trek to a spot or staying close to home, like, you have to be really good at fishing every bit of water. And if you go and fish really fast through an area, you're gonna miss out great opportunities no matter where you are. So distance isn't as important as really knowing the water you're fishing, the tides, how the fish come and go. Because if there's 10 redfish on a little sandbar close to the boat ramp and you catch all 10, that's an incredible day. Whereas if you run somewhere far and you burn up a lot of time and there's a 100 redfish and you only catch three, who had the better day? The guy that caught the 10 fish that were right there by the boat ramp. So that was a really cool perspective that you had. It is important to fish small and really get good where you're fishing.

Tom Rowland: Mhmm. And then and then as far as the customers go, like, that was one of the things. Like, I'd like to ask you about that. Like, follow-up on that is is how do you know what is the best thing for the customer? Like you said, somebody might be better off catching snook versus the big tarpon, and that may be what you wanna do. But, really, they're gonna be better off doing something else. How do you how do you know that?

Reading Customers and Giving Them What They Want

Peter Deeks: You know, you just you wanna ask them a lot of questions, you know, when you're booking, where you're you know, just keep asking the questions. They'll eventually tell you. And then, also, you'll you'll realize pretty quick their skill level. So as a guide in my opinion, as a guide, you want to give you want to to have the anglers catch the fish in their own way, in their own skill level, in their own minds. And what makes you a good guide is by creating a scenario that allows that to happen. So, like, yeah, sure. You might be able to make a really long cast and catch that tarpon coming up, but your client can't. So you creating the environment that gives them success is super important. So if you get on the boat and they pick up the reel and they turn it upside down, they're probably not gonna make a 150 foot cast to a tail and bonefish. Right? So maybe you should start toning it down. Like, guys, like, let's go red fishing and put a piece of cut bait on there. And then, you know, you know you're giving them success. And another thing too that would be, like, advice if there's any guides out there is allowing your clients to feel like they're doing it. Even though you know you did it, let them have the experience because that's why they're on the boat. If you cast the bait out, you hook the fish, you need hand them the rod, and they just reel it in. They had a great time, but you're missing out on that element of excitement. And I learned that because, like, I had a great dad, and he chartered a lot of boats all around the world. Like, we went on family vacations in different places. He would always charter boats. So I got to fish with some of the greatest fishing captains all over the place, offshore, inshore, freshwater. And I got to see what a bad captain was and a good captain was. And the some of the most reputable captains we fished with were jerks. And I'm not gonna mention names because, like, everyone would recognize them. But they would, like I remember, like, sitting on a school dolphin. We caught, like, 70 giant dolphin, and I'm, like, 12 years old. And all I wanted to do was cast out and hook a dolphin and land it. Who cares if we lost it? Right? And they wouldn't. And that stuck with me. So now, like, I really try to, like, employ that, like, letting my clients get the full experience. And who cares if they mess it up? But just don't put them in a frustrating situation where they're gonna fail time and time and time again. Like, you've gotta figure out what they're capable of doing and then allowing

Tom Rowland: Yeah. And and a good guy can do that lightning fast. And somebody else might take three quarters of the day, get frustrated, and say, man, we should've just gone to catch snappers because you guys are terrible. But I'm with you, man. That I always thought, like, I was I had a couple of things that happened in my guide career that that it kinda showed me the importance of of communication.

The Bonefishing Mix-Up: A Lesson in Communication

Tom Rowland: And I tell this one story. I've told it a couple times on the podcast. But this guy came to to fish, and he said he wanted to go bone fishing. So we go bone fishing. And all morning, we had a great morning. He he I had a tailing fish. He cast about eight or nine tailing fish. It was great. The tide runs out. We're done we're done with that. You know? And and, so we're kind of floating along, and we're getting ready to eat a sandwich. And, and he looks down, and there's just snappers all under the boat. He's like, oh, wow. What? Can I catch those? And I was like, well, yeah. I mean, sure. Like, here. What? Just drop your fly in there. They'll they'll eat it. And, and he catches a couple, and he's so happy. He's so happy. He's, like, literally just exploding with emotion. He's so happy. He's catching a fish every time he puts it in there. And I was like, well, you know, if that's what you wanna do, we can we can do that for the rest of the day. And he goes, well, yeah. I mean, this is what I wanted to do. And I said, well, you really said you wanted to go bone fishing. And he said, this isn't bone fishing? And I said, no. Like, this is snapper fishing. And he goes, well, what's bone fishing? And I said, well, that's what we were doing before where we were actually after the bonefish. And he didn't even realize that that was like a specie. I mean and I had missed the this all these cues in booking the trip. And he just thought bone fishing was going out in a skiff and, you know, a bonefish boat. And you're going bone fishing, and you try to catch whatever. And Mhmm. That day was really important to me because I I kinda looked back at it, and I was like, man, I just misread the communication there. And I could've gone out, and I could've caught this guy a 100 jacks, and it would have been the best day ever. And instead, we're out there chasing around bonefish, and that's what I thought he wanted to do. And even and and and I I thought that I had done a pretty good job of communicating, but I needed to do more communicating to understand that now he's really not after bonefish. He's after this experience of fishing in a skiff, and he doesn't care what he catches. And then I started to get better at communicating and better at asking questions up front like you're talking about. And, man, that paid huge dividends because you would take somebody out there, and you would be doing exactly what they wanted to do. Not what you wanted to do, but what they wanted to do. And then as a guide, if what you really wanted to do was, god, we just gotta be fly fishing for tarpon. Well, then it's your job to get this guy so excited about fishing with you that he absolutely returns every year, give him some casting lessons every year, and work him up to the point to where he can do the kind of fishing that you wanna do. And that takes a lot of patience. But the good the good guys, I think, are willing to put that kind of patience in. It sounds like sounds like your communication skills are really good. Did somebody help you with that, or did you kind of figure all that out on your own or what?

Peter Deeks: I think trial and error. Yeah. I've been doing kind of a long time, and, you know, the first five years or so are a little bit rough. You know? It's like you said, you're out there and you you pull off your bonefish all day or whatever you're targeting and it doesn't work out. And that he's you know, client's not happy, you're not happy and but you learn after a while. As long as it's what you love to do. This is what I love to do. And so, you know, it's not I need to make money, but it's not, I'm not doing it for money. And I think that that's the difference. This would be guiding, would be the most stressful, frustrating, and horrible job in the whole world. I can't think of anything worse if you were doing it strictly for money because you'd be factoring everything in. Like, I don't wanna make that long, and I don't wanna buy that extra bait. I I don't wanna get up at 03:00 in the morning. It's too cold. You know? Like, if it's not fun, it's rough. And I like, going back to what you said earlier, you can't hide that for very long.

Tom Rowland: Right. Yeah. No. You're not hiding that for for more than twenty minutes probably. As soon as somebody says, I wanna fly fish for bonefish, and the guy goes, oh, god. I mean, you know, I mean, you haven't hit it very, very much. You know? It's it's, it comes right out. But the people that love it, they, you know, they they do they do a lot of extra things, like, you know, figuring out where you know, not just where the fish are and where they can catch some fish, but but things, you know, along the lines of of extra study that other people aren't willing or able to do. And and, do you do you do any of that kind of stuff, like, off when you're not chartering or or thinking differently about about your fishery and then doing some extra things, extra study kind of stuff?

Breakthroughs Come from Extra Study

Peter Deeks: Yeah. I would say in the fishing world, every great breakthrough that I've ever had has come from, like, extra study. So it's not just doing what the next guy does and trying to do it a little bit better, which is, like, my biggest pet peeve. People watch what others do, copy it, and try to do it just a little bit better, like, beat you to the spot. Because someone initially discovered that with with extra study. So, like, whether it's targeting giant sea trout, there's some other really neat stuff with now with, like, your electronics and doing things that no one's ever done before. Like, you can't do that on your charters. You have to figure that out on your own. And so I I do spend a lot of time with friends out there trying to think outside the box. And that's like it's kinda like being a pirate, being a fishing guide if you're thinking outside the box like that because, like, you're hunting for that treasure. Like, if I could only. Right? Like, if I could only catch carpentry around, if I could only get black drum fishing so easy that, like, everyone could do it on fly, whether it's at night, like, doing, you know, totally bizarre things. Most of the time it's been fails, but sometimes it's gone. And the and the great guides like the RT Trossets and the people that have done, like, wild things, like, no one did it before them. Right. They were they were trailblazers. They were thinking ahead. They were out there. I I talked to RT quite a bit, and, like, he's still to this day, like, he's like, don't tell anyone. And he's like, I've been going out and doing this, this, and this. Has it worked? We're, like, this close to getting it to work. And he's been guiding me a long time. Yeah. And that's that's the key to success right there is, like, figuring out stuff that nobody else has figured out, like, chasing the impossible and then bringing your clients out to do it.

Learning Fish Behavior Underwater

Peter Deeks: Yeah. Pretty cool.

Tom Rowland: What kind of things have you done that are I mean, somebody told me that you did a bunch of underwater study.

Peter Deeks: Yeah. So, like, I feel like if if it's applicable or if if you're able to do it, if the water is clear enough, like, watching the fish in the water will teach you so much about how to fish. Like, how do fish respond? If you if you've never watched them in their own behavior, in their own habitat, how do you know what they're gonna do? How do you know that how do they respond to bait, meter, and movement? And, I think a lot of great spear fishermen and free divers and commercial fishermen become good guides because they know what those fish are doing down there. And, like, for instance, like, I've spent a lot of time underwater. And recently, the last few years, we spent a lot of time filming underwater. And and, like, for instance, it's like an example. A school of snook, whether it's, like, four or 500, Snook, feel your line. Whether it's four carbon and one pound test or whether it's 400 pound steel cable, they actually feel it. And if your line so let's just say there's a school sitting here. Right? And your and your bait's here and you're fishing up here, and your line drifts through the school, that school parts away from your line like the Red Sea pardon.

Tom Rowland: Mhmm.

Peter Deeks: And they won't come back to it. And, like, how would you know that if you weren't swimming and watching that? So you always fish the leading edge of the school and drift your bait into them because I get it's their lateral line, feels your line, and they don't know what that is. And so it's just cool stuff like that. So if you can spend a lot of time in the water snorkeling and watching like yellowtail fishing down in the Keys, I love like, my special place from being a kid was Islamorado, Florida. I've been stuck down there and I love it. And it's a special place to go down there to vacation, and yellowtail snapper fishing is so cool. But you look back behind the boat in the chum, you see all the fish, and you see the the Bermuda chubs, and you see everything going on in the yellowtail snapper, and then you're not getting bites. And it's like you remember back, like, well, I watched, you know, a video or someone told me to use lighter leader. And, yeah, that works, but you don't really realize that until you get in the water and you watch. And you see all these fish swimming around, and they're eating all the chum. And you see the bits and pieces of bait that they're eating. And here comes your bait on the line, and then they swim up to it and they don't need it. And you instantly realize why. It's because you're not letting it drift as fast as the current or your hook's too heavy and it's sinking. And so, like, seeing that helps you fish so much better.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. For sure. What about other things? Like, in the water, of course, but you mentioned your electronics. Like, what do you see as the as the, frontier of of electronics these days?

Electronics and the New Frontier of Saltwater Fishing

Peter Deeks: So the bass guys are light years ahead of saltwater anglers when it comes to

Tom Rowland: light years. You're right about that. Those guys are so good with what they do.

Peter Deeks: And it's like now with the electronics, it's like removing the water. You can see the fish. And so you've got the side scan. Some of the companies are coming out now where you have, like, the the live imaging and the fish coming out. Yeah. And, like, you have to be skilled enough to read that and to pick up on what's going on. But once you do, I mean, the fish really can't hide from you anymore. And so it's a game changer for sure because shallow flats fishing has been so popular for so long. It's cool. It's sight fishing. I love it. It's my favorite thing to do because you can see them with your eyes, but it's popular because you can see them with your eyes and know they're there. But most of the fish live where you can see them.

Tom Rowland: Mhmm.

Peter Deeks: So now that we can see them and where they're at, I mean, it it just opens up a lot of doors. But, you know, we still have a lot to learn from the bass guys. Excuse me. And I'm teaching myself as much as I can, but, you know, there's schools of fish hiding out there in the river that we didn't know about a couple years ago.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. Let me ask you this. I just thought about this, as an interesting question for you. The fact that you can see the fish or see that the fish are not there, which is the better time saver?

Peter Deeks: Say that again. I'm sorry.

Tom Rowland: So with this the imaging where you can actually look at something and you can Mhmm. You can say, I know with a 100% certainty, either there are fish there, and maybe I didn't know about those fish, and this is really cool. Or Yep. This spot looks really good, and I know for a 100% certainty that there are no fish there. Like Huge

Peter Deeks: time saver. That just happened to me the other day, actually. We were fishing a huge school of snow, hundreds and hundreds of big snow. And for every day for, like, two weeks, just crushing, crushing, crushing. And we pulled up to the spot, and I went by, and I just looked at my fish finder. I shouldn't have even looked at it. Like, what nothing's changed. The wind's the same. The current's the same. And I look, and they're gone. They're gone. And I went all around, couldn't find them. I don't know where they went. Like, hours they're thinking they had locked you.

Tom Rowland: Right. Yeah. That's that's that's kinda when I I mean, it's almost like I don't know. I tell my son, my son's going through this whole thing right now where he's trying to figure out what he wants to do in his with his life. And I'm like, well, if you don't know what you wanna do with your life, you you gotta, try more things. You know? Because figuring out that this is something that you thought you wanted to do and spending some time on it and realizing that it's not something that you wanna do, that's not a failure. That's like, you just now you know that that's not something you wanna do, and you didn't waste any time there. That's very similar to these fishing situations of, you know, you go someplace. It's a situation with a ledge and and a channel running through there, and everything looks great. And you spend two hours there. They gotta be here. They've gotta be here. But now with the electronics, you look over there, and they're not there. And it looks good. And if you were a fish, you'd be there, but you're not a fish. And there's something that they know that you don't, and you could have spent half the day there. And you could have gone back six, seven. You could have gone back on every they've gotta be here. So I'm going back on the next tide. I'm going back on on it it was the outgoing tide. Now I'm coming back on the incoming tide. It's gotta be something. I'm gonna go back on a cloudy day, a rainy day. I don't know. They're gonna be there, but they're not. There's plenty of spots like that, you know, where it just looks so good, and it's just never happened for for me. You know? And I'm sure you got spots like that too where it's just like

Peter Deeks: Or I

Tom Rowland: don't know. But I look at the electronics, and I'm kinda thinking, yeah. It's it's great when you can just see the fish, but it's also great when you can see that they're not there and and just move on. You know? And you don't second guess it for months.

Peter Deeks: Right. Yeah. It's it's awesome. I I don't know why we're so far behind in the saltwater world compared to the freshwater guys. But

Tom Rowland: Well, I think that there's some fishing that that that those type of electronics, you know, like, what what the bass guys are using now where you have the forward scan on the trolling motor. And

Peter Deeks: Mhmm.

Tom Rowland: And and, you know, a lot of times, they're fishing in deeper water than we are. And so the cone is much larger, and you have an opportunity to see more of what's going on in deeper water. Whereas if you're fishing in in three feet of water and the trolling motor is almost touching the grass, it's not really there's it's not really applicable. Sure. But now, you know, the fish to to your point, the fish aren't always up on, you know, that more more fish are off of the flat somewhere else that we haven't been looking. And and that's where the electronics really, you know, can can really make a big difference is trying to trying to figure that out. Like, okay. I've been fishing up there for twenty years. Now I'm gonna try fishing out here where I have no confidence, but this thing is a confidence builder. I can look there and see if they're fish. That's so much. What do you think about the the the, the role of of confidence, like, in your own fishing? I mean, of course it of course it means, you know, it's really important. But but, like, to have the confidence to stick with something when it's when it's not working, Like, how does that play into into what you do?

Confidence on the Water

Peter Deeks: Confidence is everything. If you don't have confidence, you shouldn't be doing it. And because there's a difference between knowing that, like, the tarpon aren't gonna be biting that well today, and we just have to wait an hour for a bite. And be that's still confidence. Like, I know in an hour in my heart that we're gonna get a bite. But, you know, if you don't have confidence, you need to build confidence and find confidence. And, you know, going back to your electronics or maybe spending more time in the water just moving around. Like, the cool thing about, at least in kinda Southeast United States and saltwater, if you move around a lot, enough during the day, you're gonna find something cool. And so, like, growing up, we spent a lot of time, like, anchored, hoping, let fish come to us. And, you know, I'm learning now that, like, you should just if you've got nothing and you've got no confidence, just go around with your trolling motor and look or go around with your big motor and look. I mean, who knows what you're gonna find, but you're gonna find something.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. For sure. That's what Steve Huff always said is if you pull far enough, the fish will find you. You you may not know what you're doing, man. And that is a great, that's a great piece of advice to somebody that's just getting started. It's like, man, just just move. Just burn up that trolling motor and and or or push the, you know, the push pull. Just pull all day. That's what I used to do. And sir sure enough, you know, you pull through the tide change and you pull you know, now you're now you're not even paying attention to the tide. You just pull, and then you're like, oh, this must be a good spot. Well, it wasn't the spot. It was the tide. And it might take you a little while to figure that out, but it was the moving that allowed you to find the fish. And I can I don't have much of a of an attention span to to sit and and wait for very long unless I unless I have the confidence, like, chumming for bonefish or something like that? And and but even then, it's not my favorite. It's not my favorite.

Favorite Species and the Pursuit of Giant Trout

Tom Rowland: So what do you think your favorite, species is?

Peter Deeks: People ask that a lot. I think it's, like, the most often it's, like, probably the most frequently asked question on the boat from my clients. And I would say I like to be seasonal. Like, there's not something that I really love to fish for, but I love fishing for trout in the spring. I love fishing for snook in the summer. I love redfish in the fall. And then in the wintertime, it's just a great time to catch a whole lot of fish. But, like, right now, I cannot wait to catch big trout. Like, I'm already looking at different boats and, like, what do I need to get back to where these big fish are? I think they're gonna get extra shallow this year. And so that's getting me super pumped up. I don't have a feeling like this one fish, and that's my favorite fish. I love fishing tarpon because, for instance, I love catching these trout, but man, by April, I'm gonna be so burnt out on trout and everyone's seeing another trout. And then now it's like, oh, boy. It's snook time. But personally, I think I don't know. Maybe everybody's different, but I really like and have a lot of drive to be really good at fishing in, like, my home region. I don't have these big, drives to go around the world to catch these bizarre fish. Maybe because I did quite a bit of it when I was young. But I had a friend the other day invited me. He's like, Pick any place you want to go and everything's paid for. We'll go fish there. And I was thinking about him like, there's kind of nothing that would take me from here. Like, how about a really nice resort? And we go fish for what I wanna fish for right here. So I don't know. I think fishing the the motivation for me to fish is just figuring out the fish, not necessarily the actual fish to catch.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. What about the big trout, though? What what do you what is it that is so intriguing about the big trout for you?

Peter Deeks: Well, the the the coolest thing is I happen to live in an area that has arguably the biggest trout in the whole world. And so, like, hey. We already got that going for us. And then I have figured out a handful of things that allows me to catch the impossible, let's say, and that's been really cool. So for me personally, like, every inch is a mile. So, like, when I first started guiding, if I could catch a five pounder, that was really good. And then now it's like, I'm trying to catch a 10 pounder for my clients if I can, but I can pretty much guarantee like a seven. And at one point in my life, that would have been impossible, but now it's possible. And so that's a cool thing for the trout because the rest of the world kinda has their eye here in a couple other regions. If you want a big trout, this is where you come.

Tom Rowland: Mhmm.

Peter Deeks: And so that's what's exciting. Like, if I were to catch, like, a let's just say a 15 pound trout tomorrow, I would be pretty excited, but I'm mostly excited that it everybody else is excited for me, if that makes sense.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. No. It it totally makes sense because, you know, Key West was the permit capital, and that's what I chose to I was like, well, if this is where everybody's coming for permit, then that's probably what I should spend a lot of time fishing for when I was a young young starting a young guy starting out. It's like, wow. I mean, that seems like the most logical thing. If they're hard to catch, actually, it kinda took a little pressure off because I was like, well, if they're hard to catch, then you don't catch that many. So if if I don't catch any, then it kinda takes the pressure off where if people are going out and catching tons of these other fish, man, it's gonna look terrible if I come back catching none day after day after day. But if you go out and catch no permit, nobody even it didn't even doesn't even raise an eyebrow. Like, it didn't back then. But, yeah, I know exactly what you're talking about. Like, that that you that's the kingfish in your in your area. But the trout is is not the kingfish in The Keys, and and I do fish for them and enjoy them. But I don't think I've ever fished for them like you do. Like, the really giant ones that are really difficult to catch. I mean, that's just not the way we fish for them. You know, it's more like popping corks, mullet muds, kind of, you know, these these different areas kinda drifting over these areas, and you're you you might as well be catching, jacks or or anything else. And I would like to I would like to go and really hunt a a big one because I know that, like, when you hear somebody like CA Richardson or yourself or, like, Rob Chapman was just talking about it, the trout has a, an allure to it like a permit or a bonefish or a giant tarpon or something that people are really, really into. And, I don't I just don't think I've I've had that experience to to see that fish in that kind of a a situation.

Peter Deeks: It's different for sure. And I'd love to have you if you're you know, if you ever find the time, and we go together. But it's it's it's a different deal. It's like becomes a whole another species fishing differently. And it's it is interesting.

Tom Rowland: You fly fish for them? Those big ones like that?

Peter Deeks: I do. Usually for fly fishing, we'll do it, like, the dead of the winter or, like, I've got some other little things. Like, I'll go out at night. And, you know, those little secrets that you figure out that other people don't know about, and it allows you to catch those fish. And but it's it's neat. And and like probably, you know, like Hahrab and some other guys that really love the big trout, it's one of those premier bragging rights fish. Most of my clients that come here to fish for big trout, they're a lot of them are guides themselves and other, like, Louisiana techs and stuff like that. And, like, all they live for are big trout. They're just like big trout, big trout, big trout. When they catch one, they're so excited. It makes me excited. Yeah. Because we kinda take it for granted, like, permit. You know, like, you would love to catch a 40 pound permit, but, like, nah. But you get a guy that's like, that's his passion, and he just flew in from Australia to catch a 40 pound permit. You do. It's like it adds that element of excitement, and trout does do that for people, whereas redfish doesn't so much.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. Yeah. That but, you know, for other people, in a place that they don't have redfish, maybe it maybe it would. Yeah. People people get so excited. That's that's the the, the best part about guiding, especially for, like, a, something like that, like that big trout or a permit permit on fly, particularly. I remember having this one guy. We went out, and we he caught a permanent on fly, and he was it was, like, 10:00 in the morning. And he was, like, he could he was shaking. He was so emotionally done that he was just, like, let's just go in. It can't get any better than this. I'm like, oh, I don't know, man. On a day like today, I think we could probably catch more. And he it almost made his head explode that we could catch another one, and he was just like, no. No. Let's just go in. I this is the best ever. I the just all we wanna do is go in. And there's another situation where it's like, okay. If I had said, no. Absolutely not. We are not going in. We're gonna stay out here. That might have ruined it for him. But he was ready to go in. He wanted to go tell his wife that he had caught this fish, and so we're done fishing at 10:00 in the morning. And I'm like, man, what a waste. But he's like, this is the greatest thing ever. And, you know, you listen to your clients, you're like, okay. You wanna go in, and it's gonna be the greatest thing ever. We're going. Let's go. How fast do you wanna go home? But that's that's kind of, that's kind of funny with those big fish like that. People people are really into them.

Chasing a Record-Class Trout

Tom Rowland: You got a, you got a record trout. Right?

Peter Deeks: Yeah. So, the current all tackle length record, was caught by one of my clients maybe about six years ago or so, and that was a special fish. It was re it's the IGFA rules doing that because we we tend to have to or accidentally kill a lot of fish with the weights. I've caught a few trout bigger than that. But just

Tom Rowland: I was gonna I was gonna ask if the if the overall length, worked out to, the the biggest trout that you had ever caught because, you know, in the Redfish tournaments, it was a it was a 27 inch fish, but you would catch some that were really long, and you'd weigh them. And they they didn't weigh as much as a a much short I mean, you can get a long skinny one. You know? Was that one was that one a long skinny one, or is it legit giant fish?

Peter Deeks: It was legit, super fat, and we had the option kinda do one or the other. But in the IGFA rules, if you're gonna do the length, then it has to swim off and you video it. And, like, you know how weak those big fish get. So we got some footage measured in. I was like, we didn't we never weighed that fish and, we let it go. And it was exciting because I had some friends at the IGFA and they were really wanting to promote the the length, records. And so we went with that. And I'm glad we did. But I have caught, I don't know, maybe four or five fish bigger than that one. But he was he was legitimate. I don't know. My my gut estimate would have probably been about 15 pounds or so, where the world record's 17. So I'd I highly doubt we would have gotten that one. Wow. But

Tom Rowland: but the biggest one that Trout.

Peter Deeks: Do you think there a liar. Do you

Tom Rowland: think there's a 20?

Peter Deeks: I've got more than enough doubts of even 17.

Tom Rowland: You think maybe you're you're approaching the the the the max at fifteen, sixteen?

Peter Deeks: Yeah. There's been a few 15 pound fish caught and a few fourteens and, like, I've I've caught a lot of big fish and, you know, I've got some friends that are trout gurus. And I don't know if it's maybe just fishing pressure or what it is, but, like, I think that's it. I think fifteen's about it. I don't I would be very surprised if I ever see a trout bigger than that.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. Wow. Well, 15, how long would that fish be? 15 pounder.

Peter Deeks: So, again, it goes back to, like, kinda what you're saying with the tournament. So the IGFA length records are open tail, inner most four. Yeah. Right? So, like, inch tail that fish probably would have been another inch inch and a half longer. So I'm gonna guess the 15 pounder is probably gonna be in the 36, 37 inch range.

Tom Rowland: What was the what was the one that you got? How long was it?

Peter Deeks: I wanna say it was, like, 30 just under 35 inches, 34 and a half. They they measure it in centimeters. I'm sorry. I don't know exact dimensions, but somewhere in there. Like, just under 35, I think, on the innermost board.

Tom Rowland: That's that's an awesome fish, man. That's that's incredible. I've never seen a trout anywhere close to that size. They just I I mean, maybe they grow that big in The Keys. I don't I don't know. People don't catch them that big. But people, you know, The Keys The Keys is a funny place like that for a fish like a trout because most of the best guides are not fishing for them with the intensity that you are. Like, what if what if they did? I mean, could we find some big trout in in The Keys? Probably. Probably bigger than than where than what we're catching now if that was some incentive. Like, there is a there is the Herman Lucerne. You you try to catch a big trout in that in that one. But to my knowledge, that's the only the only trout tournament that I know of that would reward a a big fish. So that's something that happens.

How Tournaments Push the Learning Curve

Tom Rowland: Like, when you have those tournaments, I mean, like, man, the learning curve goes up fast, really fast. When there's when you incentivize the the 30 best guides in an area with with money or whatever to go after x, y, or z, whatever it is, And all of a sudden, whatever was kind of the standard is is gonna change. Like, that that is the fastest way to for everyone to learn a lot more about whatever it is, whether it's, you know, trout or permit, bonefish, tarpon, redfish, snook, all of those things. Like, that that changes things when when you start going after them like that.

Peter Deeks: Yeah. And it teaches you what's possible. So I'm sure after the tournament, every pair is like, well, where did so and so catch this giant fish? Like so then they know it's possible. They go and look for it, and they end up doing it.

Tom Rowland: I know. And that was one of the things that I learned one of the biggest things I learned right away in the when the first couple of red bones that I was ever in. I would just stand there and just stare at the they used to have this giant scoreboard. It was huge. And they would have everybody's name on it. Day one, what you caught. Day two, what you caught. Day three, what you caught. You're just looking at these people just like, wow. Like, either either I can't believe that guy caught nothing or Right. Look at what they caught. Like, that is unbelievable. I you know, I remember when Rick Murphy and and Scott Deal and, somebody else, Mark Croka, they caught 65 redfish in the in the red bone. And I was I mean, man, I don't at that point, I don't even know if I had seen 65 redfish. And that was that was an eye opener. Like, just Yeah. Woah. That's a new bar.

Peter Deeks: Yeah. Yeah. For sure. And then you start looking like, well, where did they catch them? Where's that school at? And then it opens up that whole new world.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. It does. It does. And then, you know, then you start talking. Like, did you see did you see those guys anywhere? Oh, man. They blew past me at this one place. And you're like, okay. Well, it's in that direction. I'm Right. I'm I'm I'm narrowing it down to where it was, but, everybody knew exactly where those guys were fishing, though. It was right in snake bite.

Peter Turns the Tables: Tom's Own Career Path

Peter Deeks: Yeah. I I do have a quick question for you, if that's okay. Like, I've I've been watching you. There's a couple people that I think are really cool. Let's just use the word cool and in the fishing industry, and one was Jose Wejebe. And so, like, when I was woke up every Saturday morning and watched fishing on TV, bass was okay, but I was a saltwater guy. So, like, there wasn't cool saltwater. It was kind of like I don't know. I don't wanna throw shade on anyone, but it was like there was kind of like the older saltwater, and then there was, like, cool bass. And there was Jose Wejebe, and then there was you and a couple other guys. But, like, I really kind of like it was, like, cutting edge. It was super cool. You guys are in the tournament. So I remember fishing at Redfish tournaments, and I'd see you guys fishing over there, you and Rich. And it was like it was it was really neat to to be a part of that. Mhmm. But a lot of people that I used to look up to have kind of fallen away or gotten out of the industry or done other things. And but you've always remained cutting edge and on top of things. And and, like, one thing I'll remember is and correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you fished for Oakley for a short period

Tom Rowland: of time. Yeah.

Peter Deeks: Yeah. And I remember it was like Florida Sportsman magazine, and I opened it up. And I think you want were you on were you on, like dude, this is weird how, like

Tom Rowland: No. No. It's yeah. Full page ad. They they had to get stuff on, like, bus stops and on on buses and everything. It was all over the place.

Peter Deeks: That was it. And I'm like, you know, we've never met, but, like, I still remember that. I'm like, that's cool because I was into surfing. So I surfed a lot. A lot of my friends are professional surfers. Their dads were big reps in the industry. So, like, surfing was cool. Fishing was not. Fishing was smelly and dorky. Surfing was cool. So when I saw that Oakley ad, it's like, fishing is cool. Right? And Jose's got, like, these cool, you know, Shimano reels on the beach, and that's cool. Cool. Cool. Cool. So, with you, did you ever have, like, a goal that you were striving for, or did you just kinda take it, like, block by block by block because you've always remained cool in my opinion? Because now you're really into into, like, fitness and you're into you have the nicest boats and you have the, you know, cool gear and you're catching cool fish and your shows are really successful. You haven't just stuck with, like, the same thing you've done. Yeah. Now you have long term goals, or do you just kind of take it day by day?

Tom Rowland: Well, I think there are definitely long term goals. But the day by day is it started out, I wanna make a living as a fishing guide. And, you know, that started out in freshwater, as a fly fishing guide for trout in Montana, Idaho, and Wyoming. And I wanted to be a fishing guide. I didn't wanna be a fishing guide for a hundred and twenty days and the snowmobile guide for the rest. I wanted to be a fishing guide, and that led me to saltwater. And, I used to do both for a while. And then it kinda led me to being in The Keys full time all the time and fishing all the time and learning how to make a living like that. And part of part of all of that was, you know, very similar to your story. Like, I am burning up my equipment. I am trashing everything that I own. I need some help here. I need some sponsorship. I need to understand how this works. Otherwise, I'm not going to be able to do this anymore. So that's where the tournament started to come in. It's like, okay. I'm through people like Bob Bagby and a lot of the people that we've talked about on this conversation, helped to be like, well, you are worth the size of your audience. That's something that Shaw Grigsby told me, and it's been that has resonated with me just about every single day that, you know, if there's a secret to it, that's it. Like, you are worth the size of your audience, and you're doing a great job with that. Like, your work with Salt Strong, you're you are, you know, growing. You know, like, for me, it was it was magazines and and TV shows. The magazines are irrelevant, basically now. So, like, Salt Strong and the work that you're doing, that's today's magazine. Like, that's a big audience, and you're doing a great job there. So, you know, you are worth the size of your audience, and then then that sponsorship comes when you can increase your audience to where it's bigger than most other people. And then then the the tournaments turned into the TV show, and and, you know, it's kind of like the passion was, I wanna show people what it is that I'm doing out here that I think is so cool. And I can do it one at a time with with a guy, with a with a customer on the boat, or with a television show. I can do it hundreds of thousands of people at a time. And let's see if we can parlay that into, having people become more aware of conservation and and maybe, you know, etiquette and whatever. Like, how how can we use a big platform to help fishing, to help, conservation, to to do whatever. And then, you know, the the the longer term goal is is to continue to do that because it's very easy to get it started. It's hard to keep it going. And, because, you know, it's very easy to tell people, like, what you're going to do and convince them that it's gonna be the greatest thing ever, when in fact, that's that's a pretty easy sale. I mean, you can you can be pretty slick, and you can sell that, but the hard thing is to keep it going year after year. So, I don't know that I I ever wanted to be, you know, considered cool or to help fishing be cool or whatever. But I do think that I always kind of thought that you could somehow transcend fishing to be, you know, to to to use fishing as as a way to to get that larger audience for for whatever reason to to to then turn around and help fishing more. Because fishing is the most important thing for me. Like, if if, you know, you can raise water quality issues and and raise awareness of water quality issues and and actually really make a difference because you built this audience around fishing or surfing or whatever it is, whatever your platform is. Is there some way that you can use that for for a greater good? And, that's kind of what the what the long term vision is, I guess. But I don't know. I appreciate you saying that. I mean, it's it's, it's been a lot of hard work, and, it didn't come easy, which I'm sure that your success hasn't either. I'm sure that it's been a lot of hard work.

Bill Dance, Entertainment, and Walking the Sponsor Line

Peter Deeks: Yeah. Yeah. No. That's that's really neat and insightful. I just need to I mean, just for you to know you impacted my life, and you I'm sure you impact so many other people's lives.

Tom Rowland: Well, that's that's super cool, man. It's, it's it's, very humbling when someone someone like yourself that we haven't met or whatever and and and, yeah, hear that that the show has had any sort of an impact on on you at all and and and hopefully a positive impact because it could have been the other way around. Like, I decided right away I didn't wanna be a fishing guide. Right. Right. But, no. That's super cool. It's it's really cool. And and the show has been on for a long time, and and, you know, we just keep we just keep going along and doing the best job we can to entertain people and and to walk that line between entertaining people and also doing a great job for our sponsors, which is which is a hard thing. And that's where, again, it goes back to, like, who's the best at this? Bill Dance is the best at at just that, entertaining people and walking the the fine line between selling products for his sponsors and entertaining and educating people. I don't think anybody's better than that. I also think about Bill Dance a lot too because, like, this is something that Rich and I used to talk about a lot. It's like, well, we already did two tarpon shows this year. Should we do another one? The fish is pretty good. Like, should we do another one? And I remember both of us kinda came to this realization at the right time. It's like, Bill Dance has been fishing in the same pond for thirty years. Like, if he can do that for thirty years, why can't we fill film three tarpon shows? Like, who says that we don't I mean and and then we just kinda threw that out the window. It's like, how do we make the best show that we can make? And if that's the, you know, similar species to what we already had, you know, okay. I mean but you can't push it. Like, you're fishing a certain time of the year, and there's gonna be something that's happening there. So I always I always kinda am like, well, we caught them on bait. Now can we catch them a different way, or can we do it a different way, or can we fish in a different boat, which will apply you know, appeals to a different audience? Like, is there a way that we could even do the the almost exactly the same thing, but do it in a different way so we tell a different story? Or could we bring a guest today so that they've never seen this? And you keep it you keep it kinda interesting like that. But I look I look to Bill Dance a lot for that because he's I mean, really, he's he's fished a lot of the same places for the same fish over and over and over again, and, nobody seems to get tired of it. Yeah. Did you have I wanna just ask one a couple more questions here because we're about to be done. But did you ever have any kind of kind of I remember earlier in the conversation, you kind of alluded to the fact that that you had had some big breakthroughs. And, do you is any one of those kinda come to mind of of something that you might have learned? I would I would always kind of explain it to people like, man, I learned this one thing, and it opened up this whole door that opened up this whole universe that I didn't even know existed. And, you know, it was like, I didn't even know that those fish were around this time of the year, and I learned one little thing, and it opened it unlocked this big secret for me. Do you have any any, examples of that that you've done?

Peter Deeks: Yeah. I mean, not to go back to big trout, but big trout was one of them. Because everybody, excuse me, that fishes in in this region up here, they see the big trout. You go on in your trolling motor and you see them, you know they're there, and they're just people just don't catch them. And so a big breakthrough for me was a couple of things that I figured out to catch them. And, you know, line management, you know, the fish fuel line, and just little things like that that I would pick up on, little extra long casts, getting the bait out away from the boat. And then you catch them. And it's like, oh, wow. Mhmm. And game changing. Like, we never really caught a lot of these, and now I can catch them whenever I want. And it's not a secret because everybody knows that they're there. Almost like finding the right fly pattern that the tarpon wanna eat and nobody else figures it out. But then you can apply that to everything else. So by being good at big trout, it's taught me to be really good at catching big snook because it's virtually the same behavior. You know? They're picking up online. They're looking. They're seeing. A quick little tip right now is, like, this was like an moment for me. Fly fishermen, we always do it, but nobody does it in the bait world. But you use really thin so I like to use braided line to make long cast. You use really thin, fluorocarbon, like 10 feet of it, like, let's say 10 pound test, and then I'll use a piece of, like, less than less than 12 inches. Let's just say a 10 inch piece of 60 pound Florida carbon. Well, guess what? Now you can catch those giant snuck that you can look for because they're gonna wear through the 10 pound test. And if you ran a straight piece of 60 for five feet, they're not gonna eat it. I mean, it's as simple as that.

Tom Rowland: Yeah.

Peter Deeks: And so now that's your bite tip, but on your flight, how come bait fishermen and lure fishermen never did that? And that is, like, that's a huge game changer. I mean, you can catch the spooky fish, and and you and you can land them now.

Tom Rowland: And make the long cast because with that five foot leader, man, that's cumbersome to to throw an accurate cast when all those knots are coming through the guides and everything. And it usually usually goes somewhere you don't want it to. Yeah. Those, those little things that you learn, those are those they they sometimes pay really big dividends. And and sometimes I think about those days where you learned those lessons were, like, raining, and you almost didn't go, and then you you happened across something. And that one day that you almost didn't go really almost defined the rest of your career. Like, wow. If I hadn't learned that, probably, I would've probably I would've run into it later. But it was that one day that that we really didn't wanna go. Nothing you didn't you might not even caught anything. But you learn something, and you're just like, woah. That is big. Like, really big.

Peter Deeks: There is there is actually one that comes to mind like that that's like it's changed my whole world. The big show, we caught the huge snook on with Bill Dance with Bob Bagby on the boat. And I figured out that what we did, and I can't share it. Bob Bagby will know if you ask him. But, I figured that out with my mom. I was taking her fishing, and there was no pressure or stress. And I was like, man, I'm looking at, like, you know, 50 big snook. Can't get them to eat. And I tried a couple of things, and this one thing worked. And that got a giant end up being in the newspaper. It was super cool, but it was like it was that trip. If I didn't go on that trip, we probably wouldn't have caught those big snook that led to a career filming with Bill Dance. Like, how funny is that? You know?

Tom Rowland: Yeah. That one trip with your mom. Yep. That doesn't seem like that doesn't seem like that would be that would be the key to unlock the the the rest of your career, but you you just never know. And, that's why, you know I don't know. I think it's always better to go. You know? Well, it's not always better to go. You know? Because when we reflect on this conversation that we've had, you could get to the dock and have some people that really don't wanna get wet and really don't want a rough boat ride. And it's much better just to say, you know, what do you guys wanna do? Put the ball in their court, and they say, we'll try again next time. We we come down here all the time. We we we there's no need for us to go today. Or you could really push it and get them to go. I mean, it's a gamble sometimes because if you really push it and get them to go, and they're like, oh, I had no idea it would be so calm behind these mangroves. And look. We're catching all these fish, and you made a great day. This has been fantastic. Or

Peter Deeks: Right.

Tom Rowland: They could be like, that was the roughest boat ride. I I hate fishing. I'm never coming again. I don't know. That's where that's where a good guide really needs to make that quick determination about the person, and every person's different, and every day is different. And somebody's back might be hurting that day. And on another day, it might not be. And you just gotta you know, the best the best guides are able to kinda figure that out pretty quick.

Peter Deeks: Yeah. Yeah. For sure.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. Well, listen, man.

Wrapping Up and Shout-Outs

Tom Rowland: This has been this has been really great, and I would love to have you on again because I think we barely scratched the surface. I'd love to talk to you, about some, you know, fishing fishing related stuff, but I'd love to hear your story. It's really it's really cool, and I I wanna thank you for, for telling me about the the show, you watching the show. That's really cool.

Peter Deeks: Yeah. No. Thank you so much. It was, you know, it's an it's an honor and, you know, super fun and super cool to be on the show. And, I wanna give a quick shout out real quick. One of my childhood friends, who I've learned to fish. With. He's a fishing guide for you now, Anthony Varian.

Tom Rowland: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. We didn't even get to Anthony. That's so awesome.

Peter Deeks: So many mutual people because, like, if you're good to people and kind of people, they stay with you and and the cream rises to the tod. So, like, honestly, we we'd be 12 years old fishing under this dock. We called redfish swims with redfish because we couldn't pull the redfish out. So we'd hook a redfish. They were, like, 12 years old, hook a redfish, and then we'd have to jump in the water and swim through the pilings to land but pull them out. And so, like, I just have these fond memories of them. And, like, fast forward, he I'm assuming he works for you. Yeah. And, he guides out of Box K there and, on your boat. It's like a pretty small world.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. Anthony is such a great guy. He is doing such a good job down there. And everyone without exception, everyone that I send down there to go fishing with him has a wonderful time. And and he has become an expert at what we're talking about, like, reading the customer. And from Hawkes k, you can go and catch so many different things. Really, so many different things. He could go catch big tarpon at the bridge, or he can go back and and and do the sea trout kind of jack, you know, thing and just lots of action. Keep the rod bent all day long. And Mhmm. He just talks to these people and quickly determines, okay. This is what we're doing. And and he's got so many, options, you know, available to him, and he's really good at at, so many different types of fishing. But he's really the best at at handling the customer and just being just a good person to spend the day with. I mean, what a great guy he is. He's he's awesome.

Peter Deeks: Oh, he's smiling. Oh, he's so nice.

Tom Rowland: No. He's always smiling. He's always smiling, and he's happy and and, good good on him, man. I I'm glad to have him. He's, he's a good hand, but I'm I'm glad to put that connection together too.

Where to Follow Peter and Salt Strong

Tom Rowland: Well, how does everybody, follow you and support what you're doing and maybe even go fishing with you or try to?

Peter Deeks: So you can follow me on Instagram, which is probably my favorite way because I'll post fishing reports and stuff on there, which is p a p t, like captain, c a p t. Then my name, Peter Deeks. And then my website is peterdeeksoutdoors.com.

Tom Rowland: Okay. And then what about your stuff that you do with Salt Strong? Because that's probably some of your best information, I would imagine, is is locked up in there.

Peter Deeks: It is. If you're not already a member, it is the it's the world's largest online fishing community, as you know, right now with saltwater, and it is growing and it is so cool. The best captains are on there, and we teach, educational videos on how to do things. We rate products. You get discounts on products, and it's a community so you can share information with one another. So, you know, you don't wanna give it your best spot, but if you're out there and you just you have an moment, you can share that with your fellow members, your brothers and sisters, and they do the same for you. So it it really helps you up your learning curve. You get to see the best gear products and reviews, and you get to see some cool fishing footage and educational videos with from captains like myself. So I can't recommend Salt Strong enough. And also a huge shout out to Joe Simons and Luke Simons, which is a whole another story how we met. But they are some of the most genuinely cool, awesome, nice guys, similar to Bill Dance, and that, they they don't have to try. They're just really good people, and, and they work for others. And so, like, huge shout out to those brothers. They're really good people.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. Very good. Very good people.

Talking Boats: The Yellowfin 24 and 17

Tom Rowland: And, you've got your 24 yellowfin wrapped with Salt Strong. Right?

Peter Deeks: I do. I love the boat. I love the wrap, and, you know, go salt strong.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. 24 yellowfin, man. That's the most versatile boat on the water. It is.

Peter Deeks: I just I just put a call in for one of the 17. So Oh, yeah. And we all that stuff. Yeah. Because,

Tom Rowland: like the new one with the with the v hull?

Peter Deeks: Yeah. Because the trout are I think they're gonna be super shallow here the next year, maybe two because you had a colder winter. So it kinda reverts back to enough to make it a long story. But, anyway, yeah, I think the the the carbon fiber one with a really small motor, I'll be able to push the boat into where the fish are, and, and I'm excited.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. That'll be a great boat. I love fishing both of those boats. And, yeah, I'll be answer anxious to see, what you pull out because, you gotta get way back in there, I guess. And that low winter tides, that's the that's the time to get back in there. How big a motor do you think you're gonna put on it?

Peter Deeks: I'm not sure. A 100%. Probably, like, a 60. You think that'd work pretty?

Tom Rowland: Yeah. No. It runs good with a 60. We've had a number of them with sixties. And, I I think, honestly, if you kept the boat really light and didn't, you know, had one customer in there, you'd probably get by with a 40. But I'm not sure what the weight difference is between a 60 and a 40. It might not be it might not be enough to make a difference, or or a real big difference. But, yeah, you're you're gonna you're gonna like it. It's gonna be it's gonna be great.

Signing Off

Tom Rowland: Alright, Peter. Well, everybody, you should, definitely go check out what he's got going on. He's one of my favorite follows on Instagram. And, and, again, if you're into learning about fishing, Salt Strong is a great, resource. And and, I know that Peter does a lot of stuff over there. So, that's it for today. And, Peter, we'll, I'd love to do this again. We'll check-in in a couple months and see what's out going on and maybe talk about some tarpon fishing or snook fishing in the springtime or how your trout was or I don't know. We'll just catch up and, and go over something else. But thanks so much for being on the show. I appreciate it. And, for everybody else, we'll see you next week.