Chris Wittman is the co-founder of Captains for Clean Water, a nonprofit organization fighting for clean water and Everglades restoration in Florida. Before dedicating his life to this mission, Chris was a full-time fishing guide in Southwest Florida, living his dream job on a 17-foot skiff. This conversation covers how he and Captain Daniel Andrews walked away from their careers as fishing guides to spearhead what became the largest ecosystem restoration project in the history of the world — the moment they realized adaptation wasn't enough, and how two fishing guides created a movement that changed Florida's political landscape.
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A century ago, Florida was viewed as a worthless swamp, so efforts were made to drain the Everglades for development. This cut off the natural flow of water from Lake Okeechobee through the Everglades to Florida Bay and artificially connected the lake to the East and West coasts, creating too much polluted freshwater discharge to the coasts while the Everglades became too dry and Florida Bay too salty.
Captains for Clean Water started in 2016 when fishing guides Chris Wittman and Daniel Andrews faced massive discharges from Lake Okeechobee that shut down their fishery during tourist season. They started a Facebook page to raise awareness, and the organic movement that followed led them to formalize as a nonprofit organization.
The EAA Reservoir is the cornerstone project of Everglades restoration, a massive reservoir larger than the Island of Manhattan designed to take water from Lake Okeechobee during the wet season instead of discharging it to the coasts, then deliver that water to the Everglades during the dry season. Senate Bill 10 funded the project in 2017, and it is currently under construction.
The Everglades is a national park and one of the most iconic ecosystems on the planet, the birthplace of saltwater fly fishing and a bucket list destination for anglers. Everglades restoration is the largest ecosystem restoration project in the history of the world and is a fifty-fifty partnership between Florida and the federal government.
The first major victory came in 2017 when Senate President Joe Negron filed and passed Senate Bill 10 to fund and build the EAA Reservoir, a project that policymakers had previously said would never happen due to political challenges. This win was driven by public pressure and economic impact messaging.
What Chris and Daniel built with Captains for Clean Water is the best example I know of anglers uniting to make real, measurable change. I wanted people to understand the sacrifice these two guides made, and I wanted to hear the whole story from Chris directly.
Chris describes his former office as a 17-foot skiff, and it was the best job he could possibly have. For sixteen years, he and Daniel Andrews built their careers as fishing guides in Southwest Florida. But throughout those years, they watched their fisheries decline. So they adapted, ran farther away from the problem areas, and dealt with the situation as best they could. But 2016 changed everything. Chris explains what finally forced them to act early in the episode.
January should have been the start of an incredible season. Then massive discharges from Lake Okeechobee started flowing down, and within weeks the fishery was essentially shut down. For the first time, Chris and Daniel had time on their hands. They started making calls to scientists, trying to understand what could be done. The full story of what they learned unfolds early in the conversation.
As Chris and Daniel dug deeper, they uncovered something shocking — there was already a solution in place, and it had been there for sixteen years. The Comprehensive Everglades Restoration Plan was voted into law in a bipartisan effort the same year Chris started guiding. But sixteen years later, not a single project had been finished. Chris explains how they built the mechanism to create public pressure later in the episode.
The first real proof that their model worked came in 2017, just a year after they started Captains for Clean Water. Chris and Daniel organized a Sport Fishing Day at the Capitol, bringing outdoor brands, fishermen, companies, and businesses to flood the Capitol Lawn with tents and boats. The story of how they connected ecology to economics starts later in the episode.
I want people to understand the sacrifice Chris and Daniel made. These weren't political guys, they weren't Washington insiders. They were fishing guides who loved pushing a skiff around Southwest Florida. They walked away from that because they realized if they didn't, there wouldn't be a fishery left to guide on.
This is part one of a two-part series. If you care about fishing, about conservation, or about how a couple of regular guys created a movement that changed Florida politics, listen to the whole thing.
Daniel Andrews (Co-founder, Captains for Clean Water), Governor Jeb Bush, President Bill Clinton, Senate President Joe Negron
Chris Wittman is the co-founder of Captains for Clean Water, a nonprofit organization focused on Everglades restoration. Born and raised in Southwest Florida, Chris spent sixteen years as a professional fishing guide before walking away from his dream job to dedicate his life to saving Florida's water systems and the Everglades ecosystem.
Tom Rowland Podcast — Episode 971: Chris Wittman
In this episode: the effort to drain a “worthless swamp” that broke Florida’s water, an office that was “a 17 foot skiff,” the 2016 discharges that “basically shut down the fishery,” a Facebook page that “just blew up,” Senate Bill 10 and a reservoir “larger than the Island Of Manhattan,” and why “you protect what you love” — in the exact words spoken.
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Tom Rowland: What's going on everybody? Welcome to the Tom Roland podcast brought to you by Starbrite. Today is one of our episodes of the anglers unite series brought to you by Burna Wen. Burna Wen is a company that makes quick switch marine accessories for your boat, and they make absolutely fantastic, mounts on the boat that you can put fillet tables, different rod holders, knives, anything you want, downriggers on these mounts in your boat. If you don't know about Burnowind, you should definitely check it out. One of the things about Burnowind is that they're very concerned and interested in how we, as anglers, can make a difference in preserving places, making sure that we have the rights to go fish in different places, making sure that the habitat and water are healthy. We got together to do this series called Anglers Unite, and one of the very first subjects that I thought of was, I know of no other, example of how anglers can unite. Me being one of these people who have united around something and actually made a difference. I could think of no better example than Captains for Clean Water. Captains for Clean Water is an organization in Florida that focuses on Everglades restoration. It was started by Captain Daniel Andrews, which we've had on the show a number of times, and Captain Chris Whitman, who will be joining us today. They are both fishing guides. They made their living as fishing guides. It was their dream job. It was exactly what they wanted to do, and they were forced to make a decision to not do that job anymore and focus on spearheading this, mission, creating a movement around this mission so that other people could continue to do their dream job of being a fishing guide, so that other people could have their dream life of walking on a beach in Florida and not having dead fish all over the place, of, you know, having a small hotel, all different types of things, where if the water quality is bad, none of those things exist. So I wanted to have Chris on the podcast today, and this is what we're going to do. This is a two part series. On part one, we're going to revisit the history of Cap'n's for Clean Water. If you're a longtime listener, then you probably already heard, the history of Captains for Clean Water. But I will tell you that Chris went into a number of stories that I had not heard before and, goes back through the history. Why they started this? What were the factors that that made them realize that this isn't an option, this is actually survival. How important this was. And in part one, we're gonna go over all of those different things. And in part two, we are going to talk about the status of where we are today and what the future looks like. And I encourage you, if you don't know about Captains for Clean Water, and I encourage you to do this with any organization that is asking for your support. Check them out. Go to captainsforcleanwater.org, and you can check out, read all of the different bios, and you can see what they're up to. Ask other people what they think about this organization. Do your research. Do your research on any other organization that is asking for your support. I would strongly encourage that because as you will learn in some of these, different conversations that we had here is that not everybody is what they what they claim to be. So be very careful in your support because your support is incredibly powerful. Your voice is incredibly powerful, and we're gonna learn exactly how powerful it is as I bring on my friend, captain captain Chris Whitman, who is one of the founders of Captains for Clean Water in part one of this series. Please stick around for part two. And if you enjoy either one of these, please share it with other of your fishing or angling friends or bird watching friends or somebody that likes to be outside by the water, because this is very, very powerful. And movements like this are not restricted to just anglers and boaters. This is anyone who likes the water. You like to walk on the beach? You like to be around the water? This is very, very important to you as you will find out. Here we go with captain Chris Whitman from Captains for Clean Water.
Chris Wittman: Hey, everybody. I'm captain Chris Whitman, cofounder of Captains for Clean Water, and this is the Tom Roland podcast.
Tom Rowland: Alright, Chris. How you doing, man?
Chris Wittman: Good, buddy. How are you?
Tom Rowland: I'm doing great. I'm really happy to have you on the show. It's been a little while since we've talked. It's probably since you're elk hunt.
Chris Wittman: Yeah. Yeah. Likewise. Happy to be here.
Tom Rowland: Yeah. Well, I'm really I'm really happy to be here. This is part of the anglers unite series that we do on the podcast, and I can think of no other, organization or movement where anglers have united to make a change and and really move the needle in a positive direction. You guys have been the been the spearhead for that. So, yeah, I'm really happy to have you on the show and doing this with you. So let's just start like this. If you got 60 to to explain the Florida water problems to somebody that has no idea what they are, never been to Florida, how do you do it?
Chris Wittman: I would say one, Florida has myriad of of water problems like many states. But with Captains for Clean Water, our focus is specifically Everglades restoration. And the reason that's needed and the reason that's our focus, you'd have to go back a century, when Florida was looked at as a worthless swamp, and they were looking at how do we develop. And so there was an effort to drain the Everglades, and that effort was successful. And what it ultimately did was cut off flow of water through the middle of the state to Lake Okeechobee, ultimately down through the Everglades to Florida Bay, and it connected the lake artificially to the East And West Coast and cut off that flow of water to the Everglades. In doing so, it it threw off it started, to to throw off the massive imbalance, in that ecosystem. The Everglades started to become too dry. Florida Bay started to become too salty, and the coasts that were now receiving the water that naturally went to, the Everglades, were being decimated with too much fresh water. And and after decades of of pollution, too much polluted fresh water.
Tom Rowland: Wow. That's pretty good. You've you've had obviously had a lot of practice a lot of practice for that, but it is a very it's very, very complicated thing for someone that that is just watching from afar that there's problems on the East, there's problems on the West, and there's problems in the South. And how do those all connect? And you did a really good job of doing that. But for somebody that is, from Montana, California, Texas, Tennessee, up the East Coast somewhere, Why should they care about what's going on in Florida and and what you're doing about it?
Chris Wittman: One, because it's the right thing to do. But but two, you know, we're we're talking about if you're an angler, especially as anglers unite, you're an angler, you know, the Everglades and Florida Keys are are either one of the places that you love to go all the time or they're certainly, on your bucket list. You know, it is the birthplace of saltwater fly fishing. It's one of the most iconic places that you can go chase tarpon and snook and permit and bonefish. And so in addition to that, even if you're not an angler, it's a national park. The Everglades is one of the most amazing ecosystems on the planet. And just saving that, those aspects. This isn't just a Florida, problem. This is something that no no different than if if something was threatening or happening to Yellowstone. Mhmm. No different than when the, fights were going on with the pebble mine in Alaska. Those are such valuable and important places to us as Americans and us as anglers that, their fate depends on not just their location, whether it's in Florida or whether it's all the way at the opposite side of the continent in Alaska, but the the fate and the future depend on the engagement and involvement from everyone in between, everyone across the country. And the Everglades And Everglades Restoration is the largest ecosystem restoration project in the history of the world, and it is, fifty fifty partnership between the state of Florida and The United States Government. And so it has to get federal funding every year over the course, and so you need support for funding Everglades restoration projects from the other 49 states. And that's a big part of it is is, hey. We should be spending this money investing in a national park, investing in saving the Everglades. And and you need that support from the other 49 states, and it's really important that the constituency within those states is vocal and puts pressure on their congressional members, to continue to fund the Everglades restoration.
Tom Rowland: It's interesting, the the pebble mine. Do you think did we learn any lessons from from that whole situation?
Chris Wittman: I think that probably goes two directions. The the lessons one, the lessons that were learned, with the pebble mine from Everglades was it'd be a lot smarter and a lot easier to, stop the impact and destruction of an area than it is to a hundred years later, go back and try to fix it, which is the scenario that we're in with the Everglades. So that was a a case that could be made, you know, against why we shouldn't be mining and the impacts that would happen and could happen to Bristol Bay if if that mining took place. The other thing I think that we learned is the importance and the power of the angling community being united, being engaged, and being educated, and that we all are connected, by the water and by the pursuits on those waters regardless if we've ever set foot in Bristol Bay or in the Everglades, or the Snake River or wherever, you know, your your favorite haunts might be, we're all connected by that at some level. And, together, those voices are are the critical component to driving either progress on restoration or stopping bad policy or or any of those things. So, we what we learned was a collective voice across the country is, in fact, the most powerful mechanism that must exist in order to drive progress in any of these issues.
Tom Rowland: Yeah. Well, that was a, that was a nice, success there. But let's, let's take turn back the clock a little bit to when captains for clean water started. And, can you can you walk back to like what you and Daniel were doing at the time and and when you when you knew that it was time that you needed to take action on a on a level that was much different than than you had before?
Chris Wittman: Well, one, Daniel and I had much cooler offices at that time.
Tom Rowland: And those offices were?
Chris Wittman: They were. Yeah. A 17 foot skiff. Yeah. Yeah. I mean,
Tom Rowland: that's super important for people to know about your organization that you and Daniel were front lines, fishing guides, fishing every day. That's how you were making your living. Right? So let's just walk back to that.
Chris Wittman: Yeah. You know, we were we were fishing guides. That was our dream job. We're both born and raised here in Southwest Florida, fished all over the country, but but guiding here and building those experiences for people, that was our that was our career. And that it was the best job that that you could possibly have as as anybody out there who's been a fishing guide knows. And throughout our career and throughout really even before becoming fishing guides, but throughout our careers, especially especially, we saw the decline in our fisheries. We saw places that were some of the best fishing when we were kids that by the time we were guiding, you didn't even think about going there because the habitat that was lost and the productivity of that area. And for, you know, the first sixteen years of of my career, despite all those things and impacts and seeing the impacts of of discharges from Lake Okeechobee to the coast, seeing dealing with red tide blooms, I I wasn't involved. Neither one of us were involved at all in trying to change the trajectory of that. And we were aware there was an issue, but in our minds, this was a massive issue that, you know, what could I do? I'm just a fishing guide. And we didn't see a path to what we could do, so we just chose to adapt and run farther away from it and deal with the situation.
Chris Wittman: And, and it wasn't until 2016 that everything boiled up to a point that was kind of that that catalyst that we had to step back and say something has better something better changed, something has to change, or else, you know, the future of not only our careers, but our entire way of life is is in jeopardy. And so we were having massive discharges from Lake Okeechobee right at the start of our tourist season. It, you know, it January, we were already catching tarpon, and we were ready to to, you know, roll into what we thought was going to be an incredible season. And a few weeks later, we've got massive discharges that basically shut down the fishery. And so, we couldn't in good conscious take, you know, money from clients to go out and provide a a subpar experience. Many of them, we had red tide. Many of them, you know, their families didn't wanna stay and and sit on the beach with with red tide everywhere. And so people started leaving. Hotels, were getting, you know, vacancies during when they should be completely booked out. Restaurants were were empty. And so we had time on our hands, and we started talking about what could be done, what needs to be done. And in that process, we started calling scientists. We we started just talking to everybody from a scientist to a bartender. And we realized a couple of things. One was that, there the this isn't a science problem. It's actually there's a solution that was in place at that time for sixteen years.
Chris Wittman: It it it's the comprehensive Everglades restoration plan, and it was voted into law in a bipartisan effort, between governor Jeb Bush and president Bill Clinton the year that I started guiding. And here we were sixteen years later, halfway through what was supposed to be the the timeline for the suite of restoration projects and 68 projects, in that in that massive, you know, list, massive restoration project list. And at the time, not a single one had been completed. And what we realized was it wasn't a science issue. Science had determined this is why this is happening. We changed the hydrology of Florida, and it's thrown off the entire balance of this massive ecosystem. It wasn't an engineering problem. The biggest engineering firm in the world, the Army Corps of Engineers, had developed a plan to reconnect that system, remove barriers to flow, fill in canals that were draining areas, reconnect the timing and delivery of that water back to the Everglades, and in doing so, stop those damaging discharges to to our home. And so it wasn't an engineering problem. It wasn't a a science problem. It was it things had slowed and stagnated because there it was a lack of political will. And the reason a lack of political will was able to exist was there was a lack of public pressure. People like myself, born and raised on an island at the mouth of the river that those discharges come down, who are fishing guide by profession. If I'm not vocal and involved, who the hell will be? You know? And, and so that's what we figured out was that the real problem here was special interests had been able to dictate and I shouldn't say dictate, had had been able to influence water management policies and progress on Everglades restoration because the broad stakeholder base of Floridians or tourists who come here or anglers who want to come here and fish or love to come here and fish, business owners were absent, and their voices were absent. And so there was this void. There was the science that said, here's a problem. There's the engineering that said, here's how we can fix it. And this void that existed was was the the public, all of us. And so that's really when we figured out if we thought that if everyone knew about this problem, it would have been fixed a long time ago, and it and it wouldn't have been allowed to slow. And policymakers would have to be held accountable, and they would have to fund these projects. They would have moved at an expeditious pace instead of what was happening, which was a total opposite. And so we thought, hey. If if we could build a mechanism to reach people like ourselves, we can't expect them to to engage in an issue if they don't understand it and don't know about it. So if we could reach them and educate them on the problem and on the solution to that problem and educate them on why their voice, is needed and is actually the critical missing link, to driving change, that if we could do that and then we could provide the the machine to for them to make their voice heard to policy makers that need to hear it, that that would be that would be the the missing link that that would ultimately drive change. And so that's when Captains was born was to to ultimately take the voice of the people, educate them, take their voice, empower them to use their voice, and then give them a massive megaphone, through which to to use that voice, and in doing so, create overwhelming public pressure that would ultimately drive political will.
Tom Rowland: Wow. So when you start that, it's just you and Daniel just kinda hatching this idea. What's the next step? Like, what what what's the step that makes it an official kind of thing that where you actually decide well, I mean, it was being decided for you. It sounds like that you couldn't fish. Right? So, like, what what else are you gonna do? But what is that moment where you kinda decide, okay. Well, this is what we're doing, and this is the next step.
Chris Wittman: Yeah. Great question. And and it's we had no idea what what we were doing. Yes.
Tom Rowland: Sometimes being naive is is is excellent because you're like, oh, yeah. It shouldn't be that hard. Right? Like, we'll just we'll just create a little organization.
Chris Wittman: No. You're absolutely right. The the being naive and being angry is a is a deadly combination.
Tom Rowland: That's right.
Chris Wittman: Yeah. We, you know, it's funny. I remember, Daniel and I, you know, we're born and raised here. So, you know, it's, you know, it's you know everyone in the community. And our first thing was we called the mayor. You know? Like like, the mayor of Fort Myers is going to face, but we called the mayor. We held a press conference, and we made him stand there next to us. And, you know, we need to fix this. We need to send this water south. And, but, really, as we started diving into it, the sadness of seeing a place you love crumble and die turned into frustration, turned into anger after we started going to people, policy makers who, you know, this this this is on their shoulders. And instead of being welcomed with how can we help, we were met with, you know, you guys don't know what you're talking about. And for us, we're fishing guides that are born and raised on this water. We are guides because we are in tuned to the most subtle changes and Right. Things that are happening in that ecosystem. And you're sitting up here in an office in Tallahassee with some charts and a briefing binder. You've never set foot on our fishery, and you're gonna tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about. Like, it it ticked us off. And so, it was it happened rather quickly, but it wasn't at first like, hey. Let's start an organization. It was like, let's just get the word out about what's happening. We did that by just, you know, what you did then. Let's start a Facebook page. Yeah. We're captains, and what we want is clean water. So we started this Facebook page, and the interesting thing about it was there was so many individuals like us that were frustrated, that were sad, that were angry, that were their businesses were being impacted or their just their way of life or the place they went for solitude or, you know, peace, whatever was being impacted, that that that fishing guides saying, hey. Look what's happening. It just it just blew up, and this organic movement started, and our Facebook page exploded. And next thing you know, you know, news outlets are reaching out. And we very quickly realized, one, that this was something that the public was widely aware that something needed to change, but they were many of us in many of them in the same position as we were. It's like, how how how can we even do anything? What even needs to be done? And so, it kinda went to okay. There's all this energy. There's all this movement. There's all these people and attention, but this is something that's going to have to sustain. We've gotta keep this energy. We've got to to organize and direct that energy, and it has to last not for a year or two years, but likely for decades to see Everglades restoration through to completion. And so that's where really where the organization part of it came in was we've got a movement that is just born out of catastrophe
Tom Rowland: Mhmm.
Chris Wittman: Out of collapse. And we have to organize that in order for it not to just be a blip on the radar and then go away, you know, when the red tide goes away or whatnot. And so so that's what we did. We we reached out to friends locally that we we have no we have no idea what a nonprofit c three, c four, c whatever is, but we reached out to people who do know and and said, here's what we wanna do. And they helped us set it up to to become official, to make sure we are accountable, make sure we are accurate. And, and then very quickly, it went from, hey. Let's try to make a difference while running charters to this is such a massive problem and such an opportunity to really change the history of of what's happening with our fisheries that it it it's not something that it's gonna require every bit of our effort. It's gonna require not just every bit of time during the day, but literally dedicating probably the rest of our lives to it.
Tom Rowland: Right.
Chris Wittman: So it was a pretty heavy decision to walk away from your dream job and in order to save the the foundation of where your dream job was built on. You know? But but that's it it I'd say that first year and a half is what it was, where we were still guiding, but then, you know, the the work and the opportunities with with moving the needle on Everglades restoration became so great that it started to shift our time away from the water. And as you know, what makes a great fishing guide is one that is out there every day Every day. Dialed in on the patterns of those fish, what they're doing, what's changing. So you start to go where you're shifting, where you're not on the water for two weeks, and it gets to where the the type of guiding that Daniel and I had, you know, built our our careers on, we we weren't able to provide that anymore. And so then it just was okay. We're either we're not gonna dip our toes into this. We're either gonna dive in head first
Tom Rowland: or probably the other way too. Like, if you're if you're going to Tallahassee and you're talking to lawmakers and you're doing all of these things, writing letters and doing all of these things on a daily basis, and then you take two weeks off and you go fishing for a little while and you get back to that a lot a lot's probably changed there too. It doesn't sound like either one of those are are well, I know for a fact that fishing guides and being a tournament fisherman and all that, that's not something that you dip your toe in.
Chris Wittman: Like No. You're absolutely right. It goes both ways. And and, really, I think that's that's probably just life. Like, if you're going to do anything to its highest level of impact, it's it's gonna require 100% of your dedication and Right.
Chris Wittman: Attention.
Tom Rowland: So when you're first starting that and and you're getting to this point where you're having some you had to have some some kind of successes to realize, wow, we've made a difference here. And if we really focus on this, we can we feel like we can make a really big difference. Do you remember, like, the first success? I mean, you mentioned that your Facebook page took off, but that's, like, all just energy and movement and anger and frustration and all of that. But where was the first time that you actually saw that you made a difference?
Chris Wittman: Yeah. The organization Very beginning, it was it was losses, I guess, or or just being met with, like, your your voice, you know, you're you're an annoyance. Your voice doesn't matter. The real first time that we saw that we could this model our our philosophy was right that if people got involved and use their voices, that was the missing link. The first time that happened was, 2017, so about a year into Captains for Clean Water. We had the one of the the most critical project within the 68 projects of Everglades restoration. It's kind of like the the heart of Everglades restoration or the cornerstone project is the EAA Reservoir. It's a a massive reservoir that is intended to take water from Lake Okeechobee during the wet season instead of discharging it out to the two coasts. Take that water into this reservoir. It's larger than the Island Of Manhattan. K? It's it's 16,500 acres is the actual footprint of that project right now. But it would take that water in, and then it would deliver that water to the Everglades during the dry season when it was needed. That project was the most politically challenging of all the Everglades restoration projects. And when we would go and meet with policymakers and agency folks, they would tell us straight up, like, that project's never gonna happen. It's too politically challenging. It's not gonna happen.
Chris Wittman: And so 2017, we had senate president Joe Negron who was terming out. He wasn't seeking further public office. And and he, on his way out, made his legacy. He filed senate bill 10, which was to to fund and build the EAA Reservoir. And the reason that happened was from that 02/1516, collapse event, all that energy, all the people and the public pressure and the news articles that boiled up to Tallahassee, We hosted a sport fishing day where we brought in outdoor brands and fishermen and and companies and businesses all flooded the Capitol Lawn and set up tents and pulled boats up there. And we made a huge sport fishing day at the Capitol and then went in and met with those policymakers to say, hey. This is about more than snook and tarpon or seagrass and dolphins and sea turtles. We're not here, you know, protesting with glitter signs and bullhorns. We're here as business owners and industry leaders from not just Florida, but across the country saying that this ecological problem is having a significant economic impact. And we were able to take and connect a problem that was to us mattered because what it was doing to our fisheries and put it into a language that policymakers could quantify the need to invest billions of dollars because of the impact it was having economically and and what it was doing to our communities, not just in the fishing space, but but those people were kind of the canaries in the coal mine. Right. And so it real hard to dispute what, you know, a couple 100 fishing guides in a in a bunch of brands in the outdoor industry are saying. This is what is happening. We're seeing it with our own eyes. And so that that was really the the catalyst move moment that that put Everglades restoration, on a fast track. And and from that that 2017 when that bill was filed and then ultimately, passed, that was the first win that was like, yep. If, you know, it we were right. If people understand there's an issue and understand their voice is needed and are provided a mechanism to use that voice, we can drive change something that we were told a year earlier that would never happen.
Tom Rowland: That's amazing. That's awesome. I love that. And it was super exciting to to watch that all happen. And there was so much, so much, like, like, well, what you what you said energy. Like there was so much energy at that point. And then what do you think have been the biggest losses? Like, that's great to to have a great big win like that. And it sets your your organization up for growth and for being able to, have a long standing sustaining, presence in in this fight. But there's obviously been losses too.
Chris Wittman: What have been
Tom Rowland: the biggest losses?
Chris Wittman: Yeah. One, we've been fortunate to have this momentum and be able to harness it and kinda build it over the last nine years. And so I feel like the real big losses for Everglades restoration were in the first sixteen years, and in the very beginning. Since it's it's we we've had a a lot of victories that, you know, you would have never thought would have happened, but, you know, one of them was around that EAA reservoir where the original so the way it works is the the engineers determine this is how much water, volume of water this project must store and convey annually. And so the original project called for a 60,000 acre reservoir that was shallow. 60,000 acres, maybe, you know, five, ten foot deep. And so massive footprint and shallow. And one of the benefits of that design is, one, the hydraulic pressure that the retainment walls have to hold back is nowhere near as high as a a deepwater reservoir. But, also, a shallow water reservoir, you can grow aquatic, subaquatic, and and aquatic emergent and submergent plants. And that's how they take up nutrients and clean the water. That's how engineered wetlands work. You have all these different plants from hydrilla to cattails. So the reservoir itself could be a massive cleaning filter engineered wetland. What what happened was, and this reservoir has to be located South of Lake Okeechobee for the obvious movement of of water between the lake and the Everglades. What happened was they were seeking out willing sellers in the EAA, specifically the sugar industry, which had been the the sole industry that had really been trying to maintain the status quo. And what happened was they needed willing sellers to come forward to take Sugar Land out of production, at the bottom of that system in order to build this 60,000 acre reservoir. And the sugar industry came back and said, we are not interested. There are no willing sellers. We will not take any land out of production. And so the state was forced to go back and look at it and go, okay. Well, we've got 16,500 acres of state owned land in that area that they're growing sugar on, and those leases are going to expire. And so instead of building a 60,000 acre shallow reservoir to handle the the required amount volume of water, we will build a 30 foot deep reservoir on 16,500 acres, which is actually about a 10,000 acre reservoir and then a 6,500 acre, engineered wetland. But we'll build this a deepwater reservoir on a smaller footprint to move the same amount of water, but do it on a smaller amount of land. And so achieve the same goal with volume of water, but you don't get the same benefit, cleaning capacity, out of that system. And so that was that was a pretty big loss that you've, you know, you've got the senate president, one of the three most powerful people in Tallahassee at the time, saying we need to do this and, the influence, unwillingness of the, you know, sugar industry to come to the table and say, yeah. Let's strike a deal to do what's good for Florida and for Everglades and everything. That didn't happen. So that that was, you know, certainly frustrating at the time, and I'd say that was one of the most significant things. And then, you know, you you fast forward that to today where that reservoir is now under construction. And the water in that reservoir, the whole point of that project is to take water, store it, and and have that water available to deliver to the Everglades in the dry season. And now the sugar industry is suing the Army Corps of Engineers over the operation of that project saying that they should get priority on that water in that reservoir because it it was once in Lake Okeechobee, and it should be available to them for irrigation before it goes to the Everglades. So they're actually suing the army corps of engineers over it, and that that they they lost, at the district court level, and they appealed it. And so that decision is now, sitting on the desk of a a judge at the appellate court in Atlanta, and we're actually waiting to hear, you know, a a ruling on that probably any day. It's been a couple years now that that process has been going on. But, you know, so not only would they not come off land, but now that the taxpayers are building a a $4,000,000,000 reservoir, now they they want it to be, you know, private reservoir for them. So it's pretty frustrating and not necessarily a loss, but but one of the many constant hurdles, challenges.
Chris Wittman: You know?
Tom Rowland: Yeah. Now another hurdle that we've encountered in the last few years are natural, natural hurdles. Florida has been hit with a number of hurricanes. A lot of the the people who have helped to move the needle, fishing guides in particular, were severely impacted in certain areas. And I know that captains, you guys did a great job of supporting the people who have supported you and, rallying support for them through the brands, through raising money, through other things. I know that you were getting them back on the water and doing doing things to where they could get back on the water and earn money doing other things, maybe cleaning up. So let's talk about that real quick about whether that, you know, temporarily changed the focus. Was it a setback? Was it did it did it help us move ahead in this fight in some way, shape, or form? But, like, those are those are kind of unexpected challenges that, you know, also very unfortunate challenges. But where do maybe and maybe hurricanes have other, unintentional or unexpected kind of, factors that that go into this this whole, you know, complicated system.
Chris Wittman: Yeah. No. Great great question. They they do have other factors. You and for us at Captains, like, we're not a relief organization. Right. We're not, you know, we're not a rescue organization.
Tom Rowland: I know that you became one for
Chris Wittman: We did. Yeah. And and we're I guess it started a lot like captain started. It's just kinda very organically without really thinking about it too much. When we I forget what the hurricane name of it was for some reason, but it hit, Texas and, like, Port Orange and Katy, Texas, areas that you and I fished Mhmm. Tremendous amount during our our Redfish tournament careers. It devastated it hit this at the same time that Captains for Clean Water was, like, at a fishing tournament or something here in Fort Myers that they had made the fishing tournament a benefit for the organization. And we're sitting here, and and as this storm is devastating, our fishing family in Texas and Louisiana and and Alabama and this and and it was like, man, this just doesn't feel right for us to be sounding an alarm on a water issue thing here when people's lives are upended. Right. And so we we we decided, hey. Let's turn this into a supply drive. And we just said, bring stuff to these fire departments, and those fire departments will get stuff to us, bring stuff to the tournament location. And next thing you know, man, the the outpouring of support and love from the community for those people in Texas, we had I think it was it it was, like, almost almost 30,000 pounds of of goods to bring out to those people. So Daniel and I dropped what we were doing. We rented the largest, Penske truck that you're allowed to rent, you know, and, we filled it and another truck and trailer behind us. And after that tournament, we we got in the truck, and we drove straight through to Texas and delivered that stuff to a church to people who were landlocked and couldn't get supplies. And so it was just something that we did. And then the funny thing about that was we we went, we did this. We just drove, you know, whatever, nineteen hours straight, dropped all this all these goods off. We go and get on the road, and our wives are calling us saying, there's a hurricane coming. And now we now now we have, Irma bearing down on our own town. We just took all this stuff to Texas. So we stopped along the way back from Texas and collected goods to to bring back to Fort Myers, but and then we were crushed by Irma. But, you know, what it boils down to is we have members and supporters from all walks of life, all over the country, all over the world, really. But at our core is fishing guides, that we were fishing guides. There's a special place in our heart for them. We believe that fishing guides are the most in touch with what's happening. They're the canaries in the coal mine, as I've said, and we feel a responsibility to support that community in a time of need. If if they're not there and the core of our organization slips away because they can't make it through these devastating natural disasters, then what what long term impact does that have on the fight to save the Everglades? And so, we just feel a responsibility to that community. And when that happens, we're not a we're not a full fledged, you know, relief organization, so we we can't make as big impact as we would like to make. But we certainly pivot, the focus of the organization during that time. We redirect staff. We try to to make our our staff resources help guides, whether that's in coordination of, hey. Here's how you go through a FEMA process or an insurance process or, hey. Here's brands that are donating clothes or goods or or like you said, you know, are there ways, needs we can hire those guides? And so, you know, we would hire guides to, go do debris cleanups, get first responders out, go go take out, you know, agency people. And just how can we get them on the water? Maybe not doing what they wanna be doing, but they're still utilizing their expertise. This you know, we're a proud community fishing guides. We don't want a handout even if we need it. And so it's important, for us to be able to provide support to that community in a form of a way that they can give back as well. They're just not and so so that's what we've done. And and when we've done that, we've been very conscious that the people who give funding and support Everglades restoration efforts, that's what they give their money to, and those resources are are held separate. And so when when a hurricane hits, people reach out and say, hey. I wanna give specifically to fishing guides, specifically to hurricane relief. So we set up a completely separate fund. We, we don't take any money out of that fund for overhead, for staff salaries, or payroll. We even absorb the credit card processing fees if people are donating with a credit card. We absorb those internally to where every dollar that came in and comes into the organization for the guide relief, every single penny goes gets into the hand of fishing guides. And that's very, very important to us.
Tom Rowland: That's awesome. And and, especially especially that you are so aware that fishing guides don't necessarily at all wanna wanna hand out. All they wanna do is work. All they wanna do is get back to doing what they were doing and you allowed them to do that. And, you know, after the I was at the Capital Clean Water event, after Irma and, you know, went fishing with a with a guide. And then you guys paid for it. I was I was gonna pay for it. I did pay for it. I think I think you got paid double, you know, because like, you need this, right? And that's all they want. That's all anybody wants. It's a fishing guide is just just to get back on the water and, and recover and get back to work. That's, that's, that's great. So this has been, this has been a really great, catch up. And what we're going to do is we're going to, we're going to wrap this up here in just a minute after I ask you a couple more questions. Then we're going to go on to a part two. So if you're listening to this, this was the if you are unfamiliar with captains for clean water and the history of captains for clean water, this is intended to bring you up to speed on how we got to today. And then in the next section, we're gonna go from where we going in the future. So the last question on this series or this portion of the show is if you had done nothing, if we had done nothing, if the organization had done nothing and many other groups had done nothing, where would Florida be today?
Chris Wittman: Oh, man. I honestly, like, do not even wanna think about that. It wouldn't be good. You know, we've had our challenges. I mean, hurricanes alone, we've been through since we started, you know, we've been through a pandemic that shut down businesses and impacted families. We've been impacted directly by multiple hurricanes. Our our headquarters here, our hometown, my my island I grew up on, Sanibel Island, was direct hit ground zero for hurricane Ian. We our communities can sustain those blows, on their own. They they knock us down, but we're resilient. We get back up. We rebuild. What we cannot sustain is water crisis that shut down our economy, shut down our tourism, shut down our fishing, destroy our fisheries, and have impacts that last for decades after the water crisis is gone. We cannot sustain those on the heels of hurricanes and in between hurricanes and in between pandemics and anything else like that. And and that would just completely change, what South Florida is, why I live here, our way of life. Because if if those businesses go away, if the fishes if the fishermen go away, the the the commercial fishermen, the fishing guides, the small hotel owners, the small restaurant owners, if those go away, what they're replaced with is not what we are today. And then they're replaced with a baseline a people with a baseline that has no idea of what Florida was. And are those people gonna fight to to save it and change it because they know where it came from? And so, man, if people hadn't gotten involved and and changed the course of Everglades restoration over the past, you know, ten years, I don't know. I I could honestly say that I would probably second guess calling Florida home.
Tom Rowland: Yeah. Yeah. Well, good thing. Good news. We didn't do that.
Chris Wittman: Good news. That didn't happen.
Tom Rowland: Good news. So, that's that's fantastic. And and really, you know, more than more than anything, it's been it's been really cool to see a movement start and to see it start out of something that I'm so familiar with about being a fishing guide. And you guys have done a great job. And it wasn't without personal sacrifice. And I want you to know that I understand that that the personal sacrifice is coming, that you would really rather be out there pushing the boat around. I understand that. I don't know that a lot of people I want to make sure that people do understand that that that's where this came from. And it was very obvious and evident in the beginning. But I think that now it's gone on so long that people are like, Daniel and Chris, I guess they're just like Washington guys. I don't know.
Chris Wittman: Like, I
Tom Rowland: mean, from, from, if you're looking at it from New York or Minnesota or somewhere else, how do you know? And I think that's one of the most important things about your organization and, the leverage that you've been able to put on is, is where it came from. And so I'm happy to have have brought that back. You know, not that people forgot, but I just think that there's a significant portion of people out there that didn't even realize that to begin with. And so that's that's great.
Chris Wittman: I appreciate that. It's funny too because, you know, as a fishing guide, you'll get the most successful Fortune five hundred CEO on your boat, and he's jealous of your lifestyle. Yep. And, you know, you can have a brain surgeon, a astronaut, I mean, you name it. And they're like, gosh, I cannot believe this is what you do. This is incredible. And so it's like now to be kind of at the end there, on the other side of that, to be like, god, man. I freaking what I would give to be, you know, back on that stiff. But, it's it's completely because progress is happening, because it's effective, it's worth it. And I've got a three year old little boy. Daniel has two little boys. You know, so, you know, the reality is I will I will never get that dream job back. But if we if we do and we're successful and we do what we need to do, maybe my son could pursue that dream job if if that's what he chooses and that's what he wants. And so
Tom Rowland: Your son and thousands of others.
Chris Wittman: That's right.
Tom Rowland: Right? And and those people are on the front lines. And I feel the same way about fishing guides that and people that are just, I mean, it could just be an avid fisherman.
Chris Wittman: So
Tom Rowland: those are the people that know what's out there and care about
Chris Wittman: it. Yep.
Tom Rowland: And if those people go away, and no one really knows what's out there and what the magic of the Everglades is or the magic of any of these spots, then nobody really cares. And that's where like, what you're saying is if it's all replaced by something else that I don't necessarily think that anybody really cares deeply like the the people that that are on the front lines today.
Chris Wittman: And that that emotional spiritual connection is the most important component. You you protect what you love. If somebody is breaking into your house, you are going to fight to the death to protect your family. And so people must love the places in order for them to be willing to fight as hard as it is required for them to fight to protect them. And fishing guides provide that connection. They they provide
Tom Rowland: Right.
Chris Wittman: The conduit for millions of people to experience these places, to then care about these places, and then to be provided the opportunity to plug in and help save them.
Tom Rowland: Yeah. And also, just like you mentioned, a lot of those people are very powerful, wealthy people that have spent you know, this is their, outlet to to, maybe they they spend the whole year doing something else and they spend two weeks fishing. This is the outlet. They have plenty of money. They have plenty of influence and they're happy to to put it towards this, but only because the fishing guide is the one that introduced them to it and is educated in the bottle and and creates this under it, just like you said. So let's, let's, stop this one now, and we're gonna go to a part two with Chris. So I hope that you'll, come back for that. And, that's where we're gonna find out exactly what's going on right here and what we can do and exactly where we are. Alright. So we'll see you on that.
Chris Wittman: Okay. Good time.
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