Heartland Bowhunter and The Cast: Producing a Hunting Show vs a Fishing Show

Full transcript of the Tom Rowland Podcast, Episode 930 with Mike (Heartland Bowhunter) and Trenton (The Cast).

Introducing Heartland Bowhunter and The Cast

Tom: Hey everybody, this is the Tom Rowland Podcast. Today we've got all kinds of things going on — we just had Hurricane Helene go through Florida, Georgia, North Carolina, Tennessee, and South Carolina, and it's been really tough. Thoughts and prayers to everyone in the path of that storm.

People who listen to this podcast like fishing, but a lot of fishermen also like to hunt, and one of the best hunting shows on television, in my opinion, is Heartland Bowhunter — beautifully put together, and they tell a wonderful story. Mike is here from Heartland Bowhunter, along with Trenton, who started a fishing show that Heartland Bowhunter is producing. I wanted to talk to these guys about the show — it's two seasons in, and there's some really interesting comparison and contrast between producing a high-quality hunting show and a high-quality fishing show. Here we go.

Trenton: I'm Trenton with The Cast.

Mike: I'm Mike with Heartland Bowhunter, and this is the Tom Rowland Podcast.

Tom: Dude, you guys are pros — got the guests introducing your own podcast. Alright, what's going on fellas, how are you?

Mike: Man, I'm good, we're holding down the fort in Missouri.

Tom: Missouri may have the nicest weather in the country right now. What's the weather like out there?

Mike: We just had a cold front blow in, so it's actually beautiful — high of about 72 and no humidity. Great day to be in a deer stand in about three hours.

Tom: Is this when you're spending most of your time deer hunting in Missouri?

Mike: Yeah, I like to fish and deer hunt a lot, but deer hunting always comes first, so I'm always on the fishing sidelines in November — that's obviously prime time for whitetail. I've got buddies doing a lot of November jerkbait, cold-weather fishing, and I miss out on that.

Building Heartland Bowhunter From the Ground Up

Tom: So you're with Heartland Bowhunter — that's a beautiful show, really well put together. How long has it been going?

Mike: We're filming our eighteenth season right now, believe it or not. My business partner Sean and I grew up together, went to high school together, and in college we knew we wanted to own our own business and run our own deal. We already had a passion for the video side of things, so we thought, let's take a stab at it, let's do what we're passionate about and try to make it run in the outdoor world.

Tom: What was the hardest part about getting it launched?

Mike: Probably finding somebody who believed in you when you said, I've got this idea and it hasn't been done before, because that's all anyone ever hears. It's a passion industry, so everybody wants to be a part of it, which makes it extremely competitive.

Tom: The hunting side might honestly be more competitive than fishing — maybe because whitetails are available in so many more places than, say, tarpon. Whitetail is kind of the largemouth bass of the hunting world — readily available.

Mike: Right, and there are so many similarities — available in many states, huntable with lots of different weapons just like you can catch bass with all kinds of lures and fly rods. So what was the idea you pitched that was so different eighteen years ago, when hunting shows looked a lot different?

I think the biggest thing was that Sean and I grew up archery hunting primarily, and when we watched whatever hunting content was available, it didn't really portray what hunting was about for us — it was more centered on the kill, rock-and-roll, high pace, not the peace, tranquility, and intimacy that comes with archery. So we looked for inspiration outside the hunting world — great films from Red Bull, and in the fishing world there was Trout Bum Diaries — buddies fishing and hunting together, having a good time, but cinematic, well produced, good music, making you feel like you were there. That was our goal with HB — create something we could show even to people who didn't hunt, since we grew up in the Kansas City area where hunting wasn't very popular at our school.

Tom: Who did you choose as your cameraman?

Mike: Sean and I were the camera guys initially, and another friend from high school who wasn't a fisherman or hunter at all — a skateboarder and wakeboarder who lived at the lake but had a passion for telling stories and editing. Having that outside perspective, somebody not influenced by the hunting industry, was crucial — it let us create something with a completely fresh perspective, even though it took some patience having someone edit who didn't fully understand the process at first.

Tom: That sounds very similar to our story. Our first season was really not very good, because all the fishing shows on the air when we started were single-host, talking directly to camera — Bill Dance, Roland Martin, Jimmy Houston. We had two hosts, and we wrestled with that single-host-style format for a whole year, and it was a terrible product. We eventually got a cameraman who wasn't a fisherman at all — a PGA golf cameraman who was an amazing cameraman — and he and our producer helped us figure out a two-person format that now looks normal on TV but wasn't at the time. That fresh, outside perspective made all the difference.

Mike: As a producer, I enjoy doing outside work in a different industry, learning about it and telling that story because I don't already know it, so I have to learn it. Having that fresh perspective is huge.

Tom: With YouTube today there's a whole new type of storytelling — I don't know anything about this, come along with me while I learn, you're going to see me mess up and do well. People really gravitate to that, and it sounds like both our shows sit somewhere in between that and a more polished, established feel.

Mike: I'll never forget when we first started, we showed it all — missing deer, and people said, oh, you guys think you're pros? You're missing deer, you're not even killing big bucks. And I said, that's not why we're doing this — this is real, authentic, and relatable. Nobody climbs a tree and kills a big buck on the first sit every time, and nobody lands a tarpon on the first cast every time. A lot of shows at the time were edited around ego, not wanting to show missing a deer on TV. I was never worried about being judged — I wanted to show the ups and downs, the roller coaster of emotions.

Tom: It's obviously worked out well. Heartland Bowhunter is one of the few hunting shows I actually watch, and it's very good. What network were you on first?

Mike: First season we were on the Outdoor Channel.

Tom: We went to the Outdoor Channel too, when they were much smaller, and actually got turned down initially — they said it was too rough to air, but we went and sold all the sponsorship ourselves first, then came back and they gave us a long list of changes to make. The following year, in that whole season while I was guiding, nobody had even heard of the channel — most people didn't have the satellite package needed to get it. So the next year we made a real jump, from the Outdoor Channel to OLN, a much bigger network, plus weekend airtime on ESPN2 with a condensed two-minute segment we called the Saltwater Game. Being on two major networks in one weekend was a massive jump everybody noticed. What was your first network?

Mike: I don't even remember — I think we were on OLN at one point, and Men's Outdoor Recreation. There were so many buyouts and changes going on, we were kind of all over the place. We were on Sportsman's Channel for a while and eventually landed on Outdoor Channel as our home, a couple years before Kroenke Sports bought the whole deal.

Launching The Cast: A Fishing Show Under the HB Umbrella

Tom: Trenton, tell me about the vision for The Cast and how you got it started, since Heartland Bowhunter is now producing your show too.

Trenton: I worked with Sean and Mike before I started The Cast — I was with a company that sponsored them for a few years, as long as I could convince them to. I brought the idea to Sean and Mike — you guys are really good with cameras and production, you could do a fishing show. Mike even said people had told them for years, why don't you produce a fishing show, but they never had the firepower to drive it. It took some convincing given how competitive the market is, but they finally gave me the green light. We're two seasons in now, and I actually had a sales job before the show and just up and left to try and do it — luckily my wife, my biggest supporter, was building her career in a school district while I held a sales job, and now she's supporting the family while we build the fishing show. Sean and Mike had some existing relationships and committed sponsors early, so financially there's no real burden on Mike beyond his time.

What makes HB different is the storytelling and high quality throughout an entire season, and obviously the realness. Our last YouTube video, with Ryan Harrington ironically, got a comment saying the host is a noob but the guide is the goat — and honestly, I laughed, because we want to keep it real, keep it humble, and the family aspect is one of the things I love. I've got a couple of episodes with my boys, ages six and three, and those are frankly some of my favorite episodes — like the one at Table Rock where my older son threw a beetle spin, got hung in a bush, got bit on the other side, and it turned into a rodeo for a five-year-old.

Tom: That's so much fun, and if you keep doing that you'll see them grow up on video over the years. We try to do a kids' show every year with at least one of our kids, and it's amazing seeing how they grow — one of our guys' younger sons is 17 now, running the boat, about to get his captain's license, and next year he'll probably be guiding.

Mike: We're blessed to travel and experience all this, and it's cool to step back and realize what incredible experiences we get to be part of, seeing it through the kids' eyes. My oldest, Camden, is 11, so before long he'll need a job and he'll have to learn his way around a camera. He's shown a little interest, and my youngest, who's eight, has shown a lot of interest in the camera side, taking photos at their football games. It's cool seeing how different the two of them are — my older one gravitates toward fishing, my younger one toward hunting, so it's the best of both worlds for me.

Storytelling: Deer vs. Fish

Tom: So how is the storyline of the TV show different — how are you incorporating what you've learned on Heartland Bowhunter to tell the story of a fishing trip?

Mike: It's actually completely different in approach. With whitetail hunting, we're often hunting the same deer year after year, building a story around that individual animal. On The Cast, we're traveling to different places, and it's more about the people we're hunting or fishing with, and the process and technique. Trenton's not claiming to be an expert in any particular field, so he's fishing with experts, learning from them, and there's an outsider perspective — even I can attest to that. I'm a pretty avid freshwater bass fisherman, but when it comes to saltwater and offshore, there's so much technique I don't know. Our goal is to really tell stories about the people and the places, and those are the stories that shine.

Trenton: I think people want to learn, too. I've been going to Table Rock Lake since I was ten — I'm 33 now — and this past season I fished with James Watson, who lives down there, and he did something entirely different than what I'd done every May for twenty-plus years. We always drop-shot ten to fifteen feet deep for the top-water bite, but he took us right to the bank in hot water, and we caught a ton of fish. Even with years of experience, when you fish with someone different you learn something totally new, and I think viewers learn as I do — they like getting insight into what lake you're fishing, but also just learning anything about the sport.

Mike: Trent also learned you can't just throw a frog all the time.

Trenton: If I could do that, I could start another show — frogs unlimited.

Tom: You could take that all the way into saltwater — you'd be surprised how many species will eat a frog. A redfish will eat any bass lure that's ever been created. We used to be sponsored by Strike King, and we caught reds on chatterbaits, buzzbaits, topwater with blades, lizards, worms — they eat all of it. The redfish is kind of the saltwater largemouth bass — available to so many people in so many kinds of boats, wading, from the bank, fly fishing, offshore.

Trenton: I don't have a lot of redfish experience, but the one time I did, in Venice, Louisiana, they were unbelievably ready to eat an artificial bait, more so than a largemouth. We were red fishing with Mike Frenette of Redfish Charters, and I threw a spinnerbait that I didn't think would draw a strike, and it hit it like a missile.

Tom: Venice is the true epicenter of redfishing — like Iowa is for whitetail deer. We used to fish a lot of redfish tournaments down there during the early days of the IFA circuit and the ESPN tournaments, four or five events a year in Venice. I just saw Mike Frenette again at ICAST after not seeing him in years — I remembered when he won a tournament with his son, who must have been about fourteen at the time.

Trenton: Have you ever eaten at his lodge? Him and his wife cook incredible fresh Louisiana seafood — I asked Mike this year at ICAST how he cooks fish, and the secret is butter. I got a bunch of porgy and snapper home from an offshore meat run right after filming with Ryan, put four sticks of butter in a pool on the Blackstone with Cajun seasoning, and even my mom said it was really good.

Tom: The porgy is one of the most underrated food fish — when captains catch a nice porgy they'll set it aside in its own cooler, along with things like cero mackerel. You're talking about redfishing — has your show been down to Venice much?

Mike: I've only caught redfish a couple of times, once at a Yeti Pro-Am event at Journey South Outfitters, where Yeti pros from outside the fishing world were paired with a fishing pro. I got paired with Hillary Hutchison, a fly fishing guide out of Montana, and we committed to fly fishing for extra points even though we don't have a ton of fly fishing opportunity growing up in Missouri outside of catching carp on a fly, which are very picky. I'm not the most proficient fly fisherman, but even when I miscast and the line smacked the water, the redfish didn't care — they just ate it as soon as I put it back in front of them.

Jumping Into a New Career

Tom: We've been talking about all these fun stories, but one of the reasons I even started this podcast was to find out about that moment when somebody decides to make a change in their life — become a guide, open a shop, start a TV show — because unless you jump and do it, it's never going to happen. Trenton, you quit your sales job. What was that like, and how did you decide to make the jump?

Trenton: I don't know if I'd say the time was right — my wife is my biggest supporter, and once we landed the show with Sean and Mike, it became a real conversation about whether we were actually going to do it. There was tension at my sales job with new hires and new managers, not a bad situation exactly, but not the right one for us, and we could see it trending that way. My wife and I talked, and it felt like God was pulling us away from that job right as the fishing show was looking awesome, especially knowing what Sean and Mike could do even before we'd shot a single episode. Financially we had to make sure we could get by, and we're scraping by to get the show off the ground, but she's supporting me 100%, and it was actually her idea to just quit and go do the show, that we'd get through it. It's been such a huge blessing — not just because the show now has two seasons and traction, but because she's in a job she loves, and our boys get to see me doing my passion instead of coming home miserable from a nine-to-five. Even on a bad day of filming — like a rough tarpon day — I came home thinking what a blessing it was to be on the water for twelve hours with one of the best tarpon fishermen I know. If you feel the Lord pointing you that way, it's a thousand percent worth taking the jump.

Tom: That's one of the harder things to do. And for the production company, this is your first foray outside of deer hunting?

Mike: We also produce a waterfowl show and do a bunch of other content outside the hunting industry, but this is definitely our first leg into the fishing world.

Tom: In my experience, everybody's got to be all in on both sides, or it doesn't work — putting together a television show is hard. We've got three shows right now, and it's hard to get any of them off the ground.

Mike: One of the biggest misconceptions I run into when I travel and meet people is, oh, you got it made, you hunt for a living. And don't get me wrong, I am blessed beyond measure, but it's a whole business — you don't just go out and fish or hunt for a living and have fun the whole time. There's a whole business side people don't see, and I spend a lot more time in the office than anybody would imagine. Not complaining, but it's not all glory.

Tom: That's the same thing people ask at consumer shows — how do you catch a bonefish with that boat following you — and honestly, out of everything I do, that's the easiest part. When I was first learning to pole for bonefish it was already hard enough just to find and catch one, and then you add a whole camera boat with non-fishermen slamming hatches, and the story is always the same — we found them, and the crew wants to reposition for better light, and you're thinking, they're not going to still be there. But if you're patient and take a wide enough path around a school, a lot of times they still are, and that's one of the things I've learned from all this fishing and filming — it's not always the way you think when you're on a charter or in a tournament. Some of my fishing has actually improved because of the filming, having to slow down.

Mike: I've had those same situations in deer hunting, where the perfect tree only fits one person, so we set up differently than we would alone, and sometimes we end up killing a deer we wouldn't have otherwise. I've gotten to the point where I figure if it's meant to be, it'll happen — you can only worry about what's in your control. We've got double the scent, double the movement, double the skyline exposure with two people in a stand, and that's just what it is. I like a challenge, and it's more rewarding when you succeed under those high-pressure situations.

Tom: Over twenty years there have been four or five situations that have really surprised me, where we were able to pull around a school of redfish the hard way and the camera guys who know how to do it are right — it ends up being the best shot we've ever gotten.

Mike: That's the most challenging thing about what we do — we're not shooting in a controlled environment, we're at the mercy of a wild animal or a fish, so the actual catch or the shot is the hardest thing to get. You can plan and set up everything else, but when it comes to the moment, you've got one chance.

Tom: And everybody's got to be on — the camera guy's got to have the shot set, the angler's got to execute, and sometimes it's my fault and sometimes it's not, or somebody doesn't have a card in the camera.

Mike: You win as a team, you lose as a team. Sean and I grew up filming each other, and it doesn't really matter who's behind the camera and who's behind the bow or rod — you're there together, you witness the moment, and the intensity is there no matter what part of the equation you are.

Picking Guests and Locations

Tom: How have the locations and guides for The Cast been picked?

Trenton: I do my best to network — I'll go through our partners, like Mike being with Rather Outdoors, Striker, and Loomis, and Ryan Harrington being with Bubba Blades, and find people that way. Fishing is a little harder to build a story around than hunting, because in hunting you're telling the story of one specific animal, like Mike's story about a deer called Floppy, whereas on a fishing trip you might catch who knows how many fish. So a lot of it has been finding personalities who've been in the industry a long time, are very good at it, and have an interesting background people want to hear about — how'd they get started, how'd they get so good. The tarpon episode with Ryan Harrington was a little different, more like hunting, because he laid it out for twelve or thirteen hours on prime tarpon season with no bite and felt bad about it, but then we went back and the big one kept jumping, so we got to tell a real story about that fish. A lot of it is also just HB's dynamic of being a team of friends having a good time experiencing the sport together, and trying to capture that.

Tom: The Cast is on Waypoint — are you on any other networks?

Trenton: Just Waypoint, plus social media — Instagram and YouTube, all under The Cast Fishing.

The Hot Seat

Tom: Text or call?

Trenton: Call.

Mike: I'm more of a text guy, I'm in the woods, it's got to be quiet.

Tom: Chocolate or vanilla?

Trenton: Chocolate.

Mike: Vanilla.

Tom: Inshore or offshore?

Trenton: Inshore.

Mike: Same, inshore for sure.

Tom: Fly or drive?

Trenton: Fly.

Mike: I'd rather fly, but I always drive because we have so much gear.

Tom: Favorite athlete of all time?

Trenton: Tiger Woods.

Mike: I've got to go with Patrick Mahomes.

Tom: A destination you'd like to visit for fishing or hunting?

Trenton: I'd like to go back to the Keys.

Mike: On the hunting side, the Yukon is my bucket list — I was fortunate enough to do an Alaska brown bear hunt a few years back, and a Yukon moose is still on the list.

Tom: Would you rather hunt or fish?

Trenton: Fish.

Mike: I'd rather hunt.

Tom: A movie that makes you laugh?

Trenton: Happy Gilmore.

Mike: Any Adam Sandler movie — I'm a huge dumb-comedy guy, Napoleon Dynamite especially, Uncle Rico is the best.

Tom: Most productive time of day?

Trenton and Mike: Mornings.

Tom: One thing you've changed your mind on in the last few years?

Trenton: My occupation.

Mike: Just time management and focusing on making the most of things and slowing down as I get older with kids growing up — we're in such a quick world, I try to just slow down and enjoy the moment.

Tom: Best piece of advice you remember being given?

Trenton: Nobody ever went broke by giving too much.

Mike: You can always outwork the competition with hard work ethic.

Tom: Favorite cheat meal?

Trenton: Smash burgers on the Blackstone.

Mike: Pizza.

Tom: Catch of a lifetime?

Trenton: That tarpon is pretty awesome — my single favorite catch just for finally accomplishing it, though redfish might be my favorite to chase regularly since it's not as much of a grind.

Mike: I'd have to say tarpon for me too, even though I've never done it — I know the rush that comes with it will be like shooting a big elk while bow hunting.

Wrapping Up

Tom: It sounds like you guys got it going on. This audience will definitely want to watch both Heartland Bowhunter and The Cast. Did you just finish shooting for the season?

Mike: The last episode of the season just aired a couple weeks ago, though there'll still be some marathons running through the rest of the year.

Tom: When do you start shooting the next season?

Trenton: Last year I didn't start until January, but I've got some good characters lined up who are busy through the normal spring fishing season, so fall may be the time to get them on — could be pretty soon.

Mike: I should be pretty freed up around the first week of November. It's funny talking to the fishing guys who fish professionally every day — all they want to do in their off time is hunt, and I hunt all the time, and in my spare moments all I want to do is go catch fish. We've got some plans to bring some of those fishing guys up here, take them out for a deer, then go catch some fish.

Tom: I like it. Check out The Cast on Waypoint. Mike, where can everyone find Heartland Bowhunter and your socials?

Mike: Our show is on Outdoor Channel, with the new season coming out next July, plus all sorts of content on YouTube at Heartland Bowhunter. We're also on Waypoint with Full Strut and Behind the Draw, a couple of digital series, so we're pretty much everywhere content can be found and consumed.

Tom: Alright, well that's it for today. We'll be back with another great guest like these guys next week. And everybody, please keep the people in the wake of Hurricane Helene in your thoughts and prayers — it's really bad, and it's going to take a while to improve. As we get more information on how you can help, we'll pass it along. That's it for this week. We'll see you next week.