EP 994 | Carey Chen | Legendary Marine Artist

Tom Rowland Podcast — Episode 994: Carey Chen

In this episode: the 360-striped-marlin world record day at Magdalena Bay, leaving Miami video stores to become a self-taught painter, chasing grander blue marlin along the equator, the sonar debate, and Muhammad Ali in his father's living room — in the exact words spoken.

00:00 · Cold Open

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Carey Chen: Hey, everyone. This is Jerry Chen. I'm a marine artist at Edward Tom Roland Podcast. Thanks for having me come.

Tom Rowland: Jerry, what's up, man? How are you?

Carey Chen: Fine. Great. I mean, I'm back home here. I'm just been traveling like crazy and taking a break. I'm I was in my studio. I'm doing a little bit of work here. I got commissions piled up like crazy. So my my best motto is work hard to play hard.

02:05 · From Jamaica to Miami: How One Sailfish Started Everything

Tom Rowland: Well, I like it. You've, you've obviously done a good job, man. I've been a fan of yours for a long time. And I I gotta say when I got when I I knew we were gonna do this, I started to do a little research on you and learned a few things that I'd I I had I had no idea about your childhood and what your dad had done.

Carey Chen: Yes. Yes.

Tom Rowland: So so can we get into that real quick? So you you grew up in in Los Angeles. With your dad.

Carey Chen: I was actually born in Los Angeles, but my parents are from Jamaica. And they were born in Jamaica. So pretty much as a toddler, they dragged me back to Jamaica. And I actually grew up my childhood there. And I wasn't fishing at that time. I was a motorcycle rider. I was a car racer, things like that. And then, things got a little sketchy with the government in Jamaica, so we moved to Florida back in in the late seventies.

Tom Rowland: And that was where? Miami?

Carey Chen: Miami. Yeah. Miami was my start. And I didn't fish a lot then, but then some friends invited me to go fishing. And next thing you know, I'm hooked hooked with a sailfish, and that got me going. Of course, you know you know, when you're a kid and you hook up one of those, game fishes, you're like it just stays in your head. And So do you

Tom Rowland: do you remember that? Like, who was it that took you fishing that first time that you caught the fish?

Carey Chen: My first sailfish is, I don't know if you remember Elias Rodriguez from Captain Harry's.

Tom Rowland: Okay.

Carey Chen: Yeah. He was one of the first. He taught me kite fishing. I had a a little 20 foot, Seacraft, and we'd go right off Bud Light, right on the cape there. And my first sailfish was on a kite. Can you imagine that way back then, they were using kites? I mean, I've never seen anything like that before. But, you know, and, that was my first sailfish. That was that was a hope for life. You know?

Tom Rowland: Well, it must have been an incredible experience for you to to have such an impact on you. Did you paint that fish?

Carey Chen: Oh, yes. I did. You did? And Funny part is that I started my career through friends who were in the fishing industry. I was not I was a fisherman before I was an artist, and it was George Poveromo.

Tom Rowland: Really?

Carey Chen: So I I painted that fish, and I actually left it in George's booth at the boat show. And he had no idea that I could I could paint. He knew me as a fisherman. And when he saw it, he go he went crazy. He go, wow, Keira. I can't believe it. Next thing you know, he's putting it out there. Keira is a fisherman and an artist. And, you know, that's all kinda started, you know, the the art thing.

Tom Rowland: So what year was that that that, that George did that for you?

Carey Chen: I wanna say it's, eighties in in the mid eighties, somewhere around there. But, actually, I couldn't paint. I didn't know I didn't know how to paint. I didn't know I had the talent. Just one day, I'd started doodling, and next thing you know, I didn't realize I had it. You know?

Tom Rowland: Wow. And so what I mean, like, that's that's kind of interesting con you know, seeing where you are right now. You didn't even realize that you had this? Like, when you were a kid, you didn't paint or draw or anything?

Carey Chen: No. No. No. I had that talent, and I actually never took any lessons at all. It was just, just do more, get better talent. You know, it's just, get experience after a while.

05:40 · George Poveromo, Captain Harry's, and Getting Discovered

Tom Rowland: Wow. I mean, in in this little article that you just sent me that you did with Marlon Magazine, it said something about, once you decided that you were gonna that you were going to do this, you had 3,000 paintings on a hard drive. So or or it says now with technology and a hard drive full of 3,000 paintings, how long did it take you to start to I mean, you must have been prolific. Like, once you started painting, man, you must have just gone crazy.

Carey Chen: So the interesting part is how I got out there into the fishing public. So as soon as, the fishermen knew I could paint, they started inviting me to fishing tournaments. So one of the first tournaments was Cayman Islands Mhmm. And Puerto Rico. So Puerto Rico had, at the time, probably 50 international anglers. So when I got there and I was painting, they saw my art, and I got invited to every one of those tours afterward. You know, it was, that was the start of that. And one of the starts was, court burners from captain Harry. Well, his dad is captain Harry senior. He's union. Right?

Tom Rowland: Yes. Well, I know who I I don't know them per I don't know captain Harry personally, but I'm certainly familiar with So Yeah.

Carey Chen: Business. Captain Harry senior at the time, he he saw my art, and he said, why don't we put that on the cover of, Captain Harris catalog? And at at that time, it was primitive, kinda. Right? But everybody was like, wow. That's awesome. You know? So they put it on the cover, and next thing you know, I'm getting calls from everybody. Hey. Come to my tournament. Come to this tournament. Whatever. And being from Jamaica, growing up in Jamaica, you you can hear my accent. I've got the, you know, the island lingo. Once I went to those islands, they welcomed me like I was a, you know, island. So, you know, I got along great with, so I started off with, like, Puerto Rico, Cayman Islands, went down to Virgin Islands, all the way down to Martinique, Guadalupe, Saint Lucia, Grenada, all the way down, and then down to Venezuela. Back in the day, Venezuela was one of the best fishing spots in the world. Unbelievable. So come around back, Central America, Costa Rica, Nicaragua, Guatemala, Panama, Belize, all the way around, back on the South, South America, you know, Ecuador, Salinas. It's crazy. I mean, I did probably 60 tournaments a year. I lived on those suitcase.

Tom Rowland: Now now that comes after you already had a career, though. Right? Right? Like, it says, I ran across this information. You were you were you had a chain of video stores in Miami?

Carey Chen: Yeah. That's why I was before

Tom Rowland: before this like, all those tournaments that you just listed on?

Carey Chen: Started paid in or anything. I had video stores in Miami, and, I was a motorcycle guy. I I was a motor motocross champion. I rode a rode bike, some things. I never fished. And then I started fishing, and then that was it. I just got rid of everything else.

08:59 · Video Stores, Blockbuster, and Betting on a Talent He Never Studied

Tom Rowland: Well, so what one of the things that I started this podcast for was was trying to find out, like, that moment that that you decided that you were gonna stop. I think is one of the most interesting things of so many people's lives is when they have a passion, and they're doing something. And then they either have, like, a side business, like, maybe it was your art or or or but there was a moment where you decide, I don't wanna do the video stores anymore, and I see this opportunity that I'm gonna be an artist, a marine artist. I'd like to can you tell me about that when you decided that that that that was possible and how you knew it was possible, and and what led you to just give up everything else?

Carey Chen: Well, I didn't do it that way. What I did is we had that business for at least fifteen years, and it was very successful. And, of course, you know, Blockbuster came on board, and that was it. You know, the business video business for me went down, and Blockbuster came went up. So I said, you know what? Let me just do something else. And I just love the fishing. I didn't expect to become a artist. I just took the time off and, just did my leisurely thing, fished. One of my first boat was a 28, foot Mako Mhmm. With a cabin. And I used to fish the Mako owners tournaments. Did the Key West thing. I was out in The Keys a lot. You know, I fished all of Biscayne Bay. I mean, I just know the place like the back of my hand. It's crazy. I mean, I discovered, Biscayne Bay. It still spilled. That that was my childhood, really, growing up. You know?

Tom Rowland: Nice. And so I guess when you look at it now with Netflix taking out Blockbuster, probably a good move. Probably a good move, what you did.

Carey Chen: Everything takes over something. You know? Something takes over something. You know? Yeah. But one thing I can tell you, which I'm kind of blessed is that there's very few of us marine artists, as you know. Yeah. Right? And the reason is because you really have to be a fisherman and a artist to do this stuff here. So all the stuff all the fishes I've caught, on my world travels is just stuck in my head. Those marlins lit up is just stuck in my head. I don't even have to look at a picture to paint anymore. I just draw just like just like I do right here in bluefin tuna. Wow. And, I I'm not even looking at any pictures. I just just draw it, sketch it out, and that's it. It's out there.

Tom Rowland: How long does it take you to do something like that bluefin tuna behind you right right now?

Carey Chen: If I told you, I'd have to kill you.

Tom Rowland: Well, I mean, just at this stage of your at this stage of your career

Carey Chen: Just kidding. You know? You know, I do it fast, but, you know, it's it's it's it's called, like a doctor. You know? You you open your mouth. You get a bill for $2,000. You know? Yeah. It took me a long time to learn how how to do that. A lot.

Tom Rowland: But compared to when you first started, like, what would a piece like that have taken you?

Carey Chen: Oh, yes. So you wouldn't believe us. I get better and better. All these new paintings I'm doing is I'm still learning. You know? There's no limit to learning. You know? You learn the colors, the the the the little details on the, fishes. Mhmm. I even do, reef scenes with hog snappers and mutton snappers. I don't even look at a picture. Some people watch me, paint, and they go, how do you know all that stuff? So, you know, just stuck in my head. So it says, don't get yeah. That's cool.

12:32 · Licensing, Royalties, and Painting From Anywhere in the World

Tom Rowland: That's super cool. What one of the things that I find interesting is that you've been able to I mean, you built, like, an empire, really. You really have. You've got the wine business. You've got, what, another liquor thing that was in Oscar Bush. What what all do you have going on?

Carey Chen: The Bush family. So I gotta tell you a little bit. I didn't really build an empire yet. When I started fishing all over The Caribbean, that was my passion, really. And I said to myself, well, I wanna make money while I'm doing this as as fun. So I was making a income from fishing tournaments. So what they would do is buy the shirts, the the trophies, pay for me to come there, and then I paid live, and then we'd auction our payment. So I got to fish the whole week, paid it, and did what I loved. So I didn't really wanna do that. Well, I did boat shows for thirty years, but it was a it was stressful. Very stressful. Miami boat show, full auto boat show, Palm Beach boat show, and it was a lot of work for me. And I said, you know what? I'm done. I'm done. I just wanna make a living while I'm fishing. So that's been that's been what I've been doing for a while now. But now with the new technology, everything is on drop ship and easier. So I can do it now, you know, without doing it myself. Yeah.

Tom Rowland: Wow. But how does it happen that you start to expand into these other into these other verticals, like like wine and and liquor and clothing companies? And, like, how does that happen?

Carey Chen: Well, before, I just started doing, royalties, which is, licensing, because license is so much easier. I have my art ready, and all I have to do is license to them. And I just get a royalty, which is something that's not gonna disrupt my fishing. My my fishing is more important. You know? So, I was doing that for years, and I I kinda partnered with some not so great people, and it didn't work out. So for, like, almost twenty years, I I just just did fishing. That's all. You know, I could have been a multi multi millionaire, but I didn't I didn't care. I was doing what I I loved the most, and that's the fishing and making a little living. Right? But now that I've accumulated so much artwork, I've just decided, you know what? Now it's time to focus on autopilot. If I can do that, and while I'm fishing and travel, guess what? I'll do it. So I just started doing with a company, and they're gonna be doing everything in in the website, the drop ship, everything. And I can monitor from my website or anything on my phone. Isn't that crazy how you can do everything on your phone now?

Tom Rowland: It's crazy.

Carey Chen: Yeah. It is.

Tom Rowland: And and with, also Starlink, I guess, all the boats

Carey Chen: that you're on

Tom Rowland: have Starlink, and so you got you got reception anywhere and everywhere.

Carey Chen: Yeah. They can work offline. A lot of my friends that I they're very successful business people. And all they're doing is working on their phone on the boat. And then when a fish bites, they run up and fight the fish, release it, come back in and back on their back on their phone working. It's great. I mean, that that's the way we didn't we we couldn't do that back then. You know? But now You couldn't even

Tom Rowland: really do that that long ago, honestly. I mean, really I mean, twenty years ago, maybe there were cell phones, but the reception was terrible until, like, really, like Starlink. I mean, what was it like on on these boats that you were on? I mean, maybe there's Internet, but, I mean, certainly, you're getting into places where you're just out of reach.

Carey Chen: The world. It's changed the world. And, you know, the thing about social media is it connects you to the rest of the world. I mean, most of my invites are from social media. You know?

Tom Rowland: Mhmm.

Carey Chen: You guys send me what I'm doing. Like, hey. You come and fish with me. Hey. You come and fish with me. Next thing though, you're here, they're everywhere. I mean, this year was incredible. I saw that you were in Seychelles.

Tom Rowland: Yes.

Carey Chen: Well, I was there this year. That was one incredible trip.

Tom Rowland: Isn't it? I mean, what did you think about The Seychelles? Like, what what did you do while you were there?

Carey Chen: So here's the funny part. You go online and you see Seychelles is all about beaches, the most incredible beaches in the world. Guess what? I never saw earlier, but I just I I fished with a bad company, guys, and, I just went on the boat and just went out fishing. That was it. I, I tell you, I love the beach. Well, I'm not a beach person. I'm not gonna sit around. You, us, fishermen don't sit at the beach, on in the sun. Right?

17:25 · Falling In With the Bad Company Crew

Tom Rowland: No. No. And I gotta say, when you got it up when you have an opportunity to fish with a group like that, the Bad Company, that's one of the that's one of the things I wanted to talk to you about. I mean, that has to be he has to have I don't know. You would know better than me, but from the outside and I'm not that's not really my type of fishing. I mean, I respect it. I know it a little bit, but not like flats fishing or or shallow water fishing. Yeah. But that has to be the finest setup on Earth. It is. Is that is that fair to say?

Carey Chen: It it is. No one can even come close. I back in my head is I fish with the El Zorro world tour. And the the difference between that way back then and now is that it took months to get to each place.

Tom Rowland: Mhmm.

Carey Chen: Here, he's got one setup over here, one setup over here, and he flies his jet back and forth. And and he can do two world sections within a year. Over here, over here, over here, over there. You know, it's quick.

Tom Rowland: And not only that, but what it appears and I've not been on any of those boats, but those boats appear to be, like, the nicest boats that could all custom built. Everything's custom exactly the way that he wants it. It's incredible.

Carey Chen: Anthony has been efficient all his life, and and he and I have the same goals, same we we wanna catch these giant blue marlins. And the only reason I'm doing that because I already caught my tens of thousand sailfish and white marlins and all that stuff already. I mean, I did a lot of fishing in Miami. You know, I did all the Miami tournaments. I I was part of those tournaments, Miami Billfish, Herman Lasord tournament, the flats Yeah. Tournament. I was part of that. I started on. The Bob Lewis Classic, the Coco plum. You name it. Everything in Miami, you know, I was part of.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. That Harmon Lee Serna, I'm a show you something right now.

Carey Chen: Yeah. Sure.

Tom Rowland: You know what this is?

Carey Chen: Oh my gosh. Guess what? That's my that's my logo. Can you see? My logo. I cannot believe it. Yeah. I can't believe that. We we won that tournament. Oh my gosh. That's crazy. That We won that tournament a while back, and Yes. They they

Tom Rowland: gave us this hat. And this was like the this was like the grand prize.

Carey Chen: That's what I designed.

Tom Rowland: I I I It's so cool. Yeah. But this hat was the grand was the grand prize, and I was like, we get that

Carey Chen: hat. Rob Fordeis that all those guys are, you know, just yeah. Just great memories. Yeah. Great memories. Yeah.

Tom Rowland: That that tournament has become ultra competitive. It was just Yes. It was just completed recently. And, man, what I mean, that that is ultra competitive terms. You got people like Richard Black in there right now that are

Carey Chen: Oh, yes.

Tom Rowland: Lighting it on fire.

Carey Chen: Yep. I mean,

Tom Rowland: doing things that were previously thought just completely impossible. Yeah. And

Carey Chen: and I know this can't be like the back of my house. I just that's where I grew up. And Boca Chino is my favorite place. Moshe Reef Club, that whole area right there, just one of my favorites. You know?

Tom Rowland: You know, one of the things I was gonna say about the, the Herman Lucerne is that, like, with technology now, we got better outboards. We got better boats. The guides have better information at their disposal, and then the guides are getting better and better and better and taking taking just all the all the, expectations are just up. And then what I wanted to ask you about, like, that's in my world, but, like, what you're talking about, like, fishing with bad company and catching these giant blue marlin and going places that other people haven't gone, haven't been able to go, like, where where are we right now with with that in your opinion of, like, what's possible and what could be possible? And what is it that you wanna do? Like, is there a technological limitation to getting to the places that we that you wanna go, or are we there?

21:40 · 360 Striped Marlin in One Day: Inside the Magdalena Bay Record

Carey Chen: Yes. Yes. I just started probably the last three or four years fishing on the other side of the world, and I realized that's what I've been missing in my life. I've been I've done all my sailfish, Miami, you name it, you know, Guatemala. Caught so many Sailfish, so many White Marlin, White Marlin Open, fish with the Bar South guys, and we actually won it one year, the White Marlin Open. Nice. And and, you wouldn't believe this. I I didn't catch a strike marlin one time, and I went out with bad company. And we actually Magdi, we broke the world record that day. We caught 360 released 360 marlin. And in four days, we caught we released 900.

Tom Rowland: 900 in four days.

Carey Chen: Yes.

Tom Rowland: So, like and and where is that? Like, I mean, I read about those things and see that on your social media and other people's social media, the ad company social media. And the numbers are just so big and so amazing that it's hard to even it's like it's like saying somebody has, you know, $50,000,000,000. Like, what does that even mean? Like, I don't even know. You're catching 900.

Carey Chen: Okay. So a lot of people ask me about that, and they they actually don't believe it. But we do have a video of how we did it.

Tom Rowland: No. I believe it. I just wanna know how it was how it's done because it's, like, work. Well,

Carey Chen: it's pretty much live bait. And and the reason why they're able to do it, they had two a mother ship that had all this live bait, and we had the main ship with a, Sport Fisher with a nine 90 foot, and that had a lot of live bait. So people with a live bait, it's I would say it's like finding a big pot of school of dolphin and just cast into them like this. Mhmm. And the quicker you do it, the quicker you get released because the the the the leader goes through the rocket and it's a release. And we did have Jack Vitek from our IVFDA with us to make sure it was all released. Of course, he disqualified all bugs. So there must have been over probably 450 catches the first day. Wow. Yeah. And three sixty is what he called it.

Tom Rowland: So what what is the like, on a real kind of fishing kind of mindset here, like, that has to be efficiency at its at its best. So a crew and the mates and everyone working, the captain, the mate, the angler, explain how that works. Like, like, from from hookup to to release to somebody else step stepping in. I mean, I'm sure that's how it's going because you gotta rerig and all that stuff. How does that happen?

Carey Chen: That was the hardest part, rerigging. The the the mids were so fast. And, the reason why, we caught so many we it wasn't planned. We we just went on a fun trip, and we're fishing from the bow of the boat. And and Steve Lars is the captain. He's one of the best in the world I've ever officially. And everybody's with every doctor is looking. They spot the, frigates. As we come up on the pod, we got nine anglers on board on the front, ready with live bait. As soon as we hit the pod, everybody's hooked up nine at a time. 9999. Of course, if you wait too long and you don't wind, the the fish takes off, and then you get to the back of the boat. So the guys that are fast enough to get that release not counted. But if you allow it to go, that's it. You're back in the boat, and twenty minutes later, you're you're releasing the fish.

Tom Rowland: Okay. And so how many mates are there?

Carey Chen: There's one, two, three, probably four mitts, but, a lot of the anglers themselves are are very experienced fishermen. Sure. And here's something I felt bad about because I did I'm a Florida boy with my spinning reel techniques. Mhmm. These California boys were tasked with conventional. So far, it's unbelievable. I couldn't I said, I can't do that stuff. I'll backslash too much. You know? And so I'm used to my my spinning reel thing, but, these guys are really, really great with our conventional, the California boys. Unbelievable.

Tom Rowland: So what did you use? Did you use spinning gear? Or or No.

Carey Chen: I used my conventional. I caught a I caught quite a few too, but not as much as those guys. Yeah. But that's the way to do it. I mean, shit. I I was brought up in Florida doing that. You know? That was spinning wheels.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. No. I mean, watching those California guys throw those those, conventional rods and they they throw, like, what they call iron or

Carey Chen: Yes.

Tom Rowland: You know, then they can throw it. Like

Carey Chen: It's crazy. Yeah.

Tom Rowland: It's crazy.

Carey Chen: I mean, what they can do.

Tom Rowland: I mean, it's kinda like I mean, it's almost like the difference between, like, somebody that that that spin fishes for for something and then a professional bass fisherman that's doing the bait. Yeah. It's like a totally different skill and thousands and thousands and thousands of casts, and they can do things that you can't. Like

Carey Chen: Yeah. You don't hesitate. If you hesitate, then you go to backlash.

Tom Rowland: Right.

Carey Chen: As well as you know, you know

Tom Rowland: And so when when so there's nine anglers on board? Is that

Carey Chen: Oh, no. No. No. No. Yeah. I mean, everybody's an angler there. You know? And, there was at one point where we ran out of bits, and we actually had to run back to the mothership. So we could have caught a lot more if we had enough bids. At the end of the bids, Steve says, hey. There's bid under the boards. So we started catching them under the boat and pinning them all and then catching the striped barley. It was crazy.

Tom Rowland: Wow. So so a spot like that, like MagBag, how long has it been since that has been kinda discovered to to the degree that you're talking about?

Carey Chen: It's been every year. There's a big, mass migration of straight marlin that go through there. And it's about probably a couple 100 miles north of, Kabul. Mhmm. And you pretty much there's nothing out there. There's all desert. So you do have to anchor out there and and stay out there for a while. You know? You can't really just go for the day and come back.

Tom Rowland: Right.

Carey Chen: No no way. It's very barren. And I know now I know why there's so many fish. There's nothing around here. There's no buildings or nothing. They just pass through there like crazy. Yeah.

Tom Rowland: And so you gotta have the right setup to even be there.

Carey Chen: Yes. Yes. And and this was not planned, break the world record or whatever. I think it's somebody has broke it after that, but, from our code, it was definitely one of the best days ever. I've been as a strike fisherman.

28:38 · Why the Biggest Blue Marlin Live Along the Equator

Tom Rowland: And so when you do something like that and you got a guy like Anthony who's got the the energy, the money, the the equipment, the crew, the setup, the jets, the everything. What is it that he wants to do that hasn't been done before? Is there something?

Carey Chen: So he's like me. He, all his life, he's been catching striped marlin, white marlin, sailfish, everything. And he said he looks at me and says, I don't wanna catch another sailfish. I'd rather catch a maria horse. Look. You know? After you count somebody that we kinda like, let's let's go to the next level. So the next level is big marlin. Okay? So there's very few of them left because, of course, we're getting depleted a little bit. The world record is, 14 o two caught in Brazil. That's over thirty years ago. That has not been beat deep. And I think that's one of his goals to see a fish over 1,400 pounds, which is possible, but it's like a unicorn because with so much overfishing and everything, it it's a bit tough. But he has seen some fish that were, probably the 1,200 probably getting full. So, you know, that's that's a possibility.

Tom Rowland: Are those fish of that size, are they just in places that are inaccessible by even commercial boats and inaccessible by the regular person, and you gotta have a setup like what he's got to get there?

Carey Chen: Well, through through the history books, he looks at where all the biggest fishes have been caught. Mhmm. And, really, the Equator is where they are. Mhmm. Those big fish go along the Equator. And he's been tagged satellite tagged, and he bought a lot of satellite tags to tag these fish. They used to have them back way back then, but the funding for big fish now is so low because they're doing more bluefin tuna, red snapper, sharks. Mhmm. But Marlon is kinda, like, off the list now. So, he's put it on himself to do these satellite tags and see where they're going. And there's something surprising that, he's learned in the last year or so is that these fish are coming back in the same area. They're not really going far. They're, the big females are coming into the same area and breeding in that same ground just like all those turtles. You know, they go away and they come back to the same place. Mhmm. That's how they do more than I do. That's what he's found out so far. Very sick thing. And so

Tom Rowland: what is he gonna do with that information? Is that information that he keeps himself so nobody so it never gets out to the commercial fleet? Or

Carey Chen: Well, he's trying to tell people, please don't kill these marlin, the big ones, because that's a breeding breeding fish. And, there's places that used to have a lot of big marlin, and now they don't have them anymore because they've killed them out. And that's what he's trying to do. I've seen him catch a few, fish that he's released, and they're 1,200 pound. And I think the only fish he'll ever probably release is a world record. Wow.

Tom Rowland: So coming from catching sailfish all your life, what is it like to see a 1,400 pound marlin, 1,200 pound marlin?

Carey Chen: Oh, well, I haven't seen one yet, but

Tom Rowland: I thought you said you saw him catch a 1,200 pounder.

Carey Chen: No. No. No. He's I I didn't see him. He caught one on one. Okay. What do

Tom Rowland: you think the biggest marlin that you've personally seen?

Carey Chen: I've I just I got one last year in, Abidjan, Africa. Okay. I've I've I've been searching for a grander all my life. And to tell you the truth, I would not kill it. So I did catch one according to the captain. So I I don't usually say, hey. That's a grander, but this captain has caught several granders already. And he I trusted judge, but he said, here, that was a grander. And I said, okay. I'm happy with that. I don't wanna feel a grander. Now if it's a world record, I I probably will, but, I feel good enough that I I know that I'll call it grander. And that was the first day in Abidjan, Africa, which is West Africa.

Tom Rowland: And so walk me through what that catch is like. Like, what do you what do you how are you fishing for that? What are you fishing with? And

Carey Chen: Well, the the the in Africa, there are these big oil rigs, huge giant oil rigs, and they've been there forever. And, actually, nobody fishes out there because, you know, everybody's scared to go to West Africa. You know, it's it's it's, poverty and and and and the government. You know? People just are afraid. But guess what? I went there, and it would everything was fine for me. You know? I'm I'm I'm used to living in third world country. People are so friendly. Everything's I I just love it there. You know? And we're we're the right people. And if you were the right people, you can go there. I mean and forget about the mosquito thing. Just get your mouth spray and all that stuff. You know? But, we went to these rigs, and these rigs are filled with giant yellowfin tunas. Crazy, crazy amount of tunas. These guys are hand lining them. The fishermen is hand lining a 150 pounders like crazy. What? Yes. It's amazing place. Amazing fishery. And, really, West Africa, I think, is the main migration where these big fish come around that that corner, and they go past Cape Verde. Now Cape Verde has been on fire every single year, and I I think that they're just coming around that corner, and they're passing those islands. And then they go north, and they're willing to decide whether to go to Madeira or Azores or Gran Canaria. And it depends on where the big big going in the current. But they got a pass, Keith Brody. And I went with the bad company on on Keith Brody just a few months ago. That was the most incredible moral decision I've ever had in my life, seriously. I gotta tell you about that. Three days. I just stayed three days because I had to go to July 4 to Madeira for the World Cup. And in three days, we hope twenty twenty more than I'm not talking about small more than big more well, some small, but most of them were big. And the one fishnet, Anthony said, hey. Go in the chair. I said, are you sure? Yep. I jump in the chair. The fish doesn't jump. I I and that's 60 pounds of rides on it. I get to the the fish to the bowl in ten minutes. And I said, Steve, that must have been a small fish. He says, no. About 800 pounds. I go, what? What? I can't see. The the they've got such a great good crew that you don't even know. You you you bring that fish in so fast. You think it's a small one.

Tom Rowland: Man, I mean, those guys are, like, rewriting the rewriting all the books. Right?

Carey Chen: They are. Definitely. Definitely. It's just a new technology, new way of traveling to the world. We never had that before.

Tom Rowland: Never. What is the new what is the new technology?

Carey Chen: Well, I know. Of course, they have the sonars. Right? And, of course

36:33 · The Sonar Debate: Cheating or the Next Evolution?

Tom Rowland: I mean, a lot of a lot of the people that listen to this podcast are probably on a little bit more on the inshore side or maybe maybe Yes. Freshwater even. Like, we have fishermen of all places. So can you can you describe what that sonar is capable of doing that they're using?

Carey Chen: It's a new technology that people some people kind of frown on it and some people don't. But it's it would I would say it's the same thing as when you had, just just a regular, you know, on the water, you know, monitor. And in the future, that's every boat's gonna have one of those. I was in Madeira a year ago, and they had a sonar, and the fishing was so slow all day. Also, the captain says, hey. I'm market efficient like a thousand people. Said it's not interesting. It's not so he followed that fish, followed it, followed it for, like, fifteen, twenty minutes. And then he said, hey. That fish is looking at our lower right now. It's coming off. I mean, probably ten minutes before that fish came off and says, you better get back there now. So I get back there. I'm sitting in the back waiting, and he goes, oh, it's in 300 feet. Oh, it's in 200 feet. Oh, it's in 50 feet. Guess what? It's right there. And then you point the finger. I look over. The fish is on the lure, and I go, yeah. So I get in the chair. The mate it hits one lure, then it goes back to the other one. And it grabs it. And I get in the chair, and I fight the fish. And to me, that was amazing. I'm not gonna say, hey. I don't wanna do it all over the shoulder arm. I'm you're cheating. I would never do that because that was I would not not look fish that day at all.

Tom Rowland: Right.

Carey Chen: I don't know what what do you think about that. I mean, what's your what's your advice?

Tom Rowland: I mean, we there there's so many different things about the sonar in both offshore fishing, and then they also have this huge thing going on in in bass fishing with forward facing sonar, and it's kinda the same thing. I think personally that, it's it's a technology that's out there, and you can use it or not. I think that, when it comes to the offshore boats, you know, a lot of these boats have to be rerigged with this, so there's a there's a real cost to it. I think that the real the real debate is whether it's allowed in competitions. And Yeah. That's what the bass it's tearing the bass world apart right now, this forward facing sonar. Yeah. It's it's kind of I don't know. And on on the one hand, I think that it's just an evolution of the sport. And but but and I think that a lot of the people that don't like it either don't know how to use it or are are, kind of it's too expensive.

Carey Chen: Right? Yeah.

Tom Rowland: So in the offshore world, I can see very clearly that there are some people that have a lot of money and are not afraid to to spend it to catch a few more fish. And I understand, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand that there's a couple of different divisions now in Yeah. In competition. Is that correct? Is that how they do it?

Carey Chen: That's correct. That's correct.

Tom Rowland: So there's a sonar division, and then there's a no sonar division. Basically, this one particular type of sonar that allows you to to really see them like that.

Carey Chen: Yeah. But years after, you know, we're talking about this. I can bet you people are gonna have that on their boats, and it's gonna be so cheap just like a depth finder.

Tom Rowland: Right.

Carey Chen: You know, back back then, people said, oh, that's cheating. Right. That's what everybody's got a depth finder now. Right. And that's what that's what what's gonna happen in the future.

Tom Rowland: Well and and I think that's what's gonna happen with forward facing sonar too. And and, you know, I think that, like, if, you know I I don't know. I mean, that story that you just told about about the the sonar, like, there's another side of that. If you didn't have that sonar, you would have kept going, right? You would have run over that fish. The captain wouldn't have seen it. You would have kept going. You might have run into something else. You might have run into five fish. Who knows? But you decided to follow that one fish and you end up catching that fish. And in hindsight, you're like, if we hadn't had the sonar, we wouldn't have caught that fish. But, you know, as well as I do that you make a decision to either leave or stay, you're making a decision to not do something else. And Yeah. And that that not something else is an unknown. Yeah. And there have been tons of time where I've thought, okay. I'm gonna stay here and do this. And either you stay a long time and then all of a sudden the tarpon show up, or maybe they don't, or you leave and then you find something that you had no idea you were gonna find.

Carey Chen: Yeah. You're you're you're correct.

Tom Rowland: I don't I don't really have a strong opinion one way or another. First of all, I'm not in that offshore world. I'm not I'm not competing in those tournaments. So I definitely don't have a strong opinion there. But I do like what they have done in those tournaments where they have a different division. This is what I suggested to some of my bass fishing friends. It's like, wouldn't it be interesting if you just had a forward facing sonar and you could use it a certain number of days in the season? And then now there would be a strategy. Like, am I gonna use it on Lake Okeechobee, or am I gonna use it on on this other lake up here? Where and then it's like, well, that's not a lake that I really feel like I'm gonna need it. So Yeah. There's a strategy of where you're gonna use it, and I thought that would make it even more interesting. But that's not what's happening. You're having these people that are just violently against it. And if this tournament will allow it, then they're not gonna fish in that anymore.

Carey Chen: Yeah. Yeah.

Tom Rowland: And I'm sure that's going on in the offshore world too. It's like, if if if that's allowed, then I'm not gonna fish in it.

Carey Chen: Yeah. And there are people that that do beat these sonar boats. I mean, I just a friend of mine just said, listen. I just won the tournament, and I beat the sonar guys in it. So, you know, there's days that can be good and days can be bad. You know? Right. But I didn't realize that in the in the freshwater world, that that was a a problem there. I didn't know how to

Tom Rowland: You know, the funny thing is is that forward facing sonar has been out for a number of years, and it's just the last few years that it's really become a real issue. And what's happening is that these young kids are coming in there and winning these tournaments. Yeah. And they are young kids, and they are really, really, really good at using this because it's like a video game. They grew up doing this. They're more adept to it. And and what it's doing is it's changing a lot of things in the fishing world. Not only just the way people are fishing, but the lures that they're fishing with. So now they're selling less less lures of a lot of different types Yeah. Because they're not throwing the spinnerbaits and ripping them across the surface. They're they're or or ripping them back like Kevin Van Damme was once winning all his tournaments by by power fishing. Like, that that doesn't happen right now. Now everybody is looking at their forward facing sonar and throwing, you know, a little Ned rig, which is a little little tiny worm. And I'm sure the same thing is happening in the offshore tournaments that the sonar boats may not even be deploying lures. Right. Like, I don't know. I mean, if the fish is there, you're gonna see it. Right? I mean, I don't know. I've never fished on one of those boats.

Carey Chen: Yeah. They they they follow the fish. Yeah. But but tell me something, Tom. I know it's a a friendly argument, but what about if nobody had, a depth sounder before? Then when when it came out, were people saying, is that cheating? That's cheating. Now now you can catch a whole bunch of bottlefish.

Tom Rowland: No. I think I think I think that's a that's an evolution of the sport. I think that's exactly what happened. As soon as Yeah. Soon as that came out, then the people that didn't have it say it's cheating. Yeah. Just like the same thing with trolling motors and the same thing with with, you know, a a larger boat. I mean, we've we've seen all of this stuff happen in the Keys tournaments of of, like, well, if somebody wins a tournament using something different than other people are doing conventionally or or historically,

Carey Chen: Right. And all

Tom Rowland: of a sudden, they're cheating. Yeah. It's like, well, are they, or did they just take advantage of it? I don't know. What I really think is that is that if you wanna be the best captain or you wanna be the best angler, then you need to be good with everything that is at your disposal, just like what you were saying about the conventional conventional reels. So now but before you go back on that boat, you're probably gonna practice with a conventional reel because you saw this is a really, really valuable tool and something that I'm not really that good at. So I'm gonna go out and I'm gonna start practice casting this thing.

Carey Chen: You're right.

Tom Rowland: And and it's just like fly fishing and spin fishing and all of those things. Like, I don't think that that you're gonna be a a really complete angler unless you can do all of it pretty well.

Carey Chen: Right. I mean,

Tom Rowland: that's what I wanna do.

Carey Chen: Yeah. Unless you ten years, if we when we come back here and start start talking, if those solars are gonna be on every boat.

Tom Rowland: Well, they're gonna well, you know, what's gonna happen is they're gonna become less expensive just like everything else, just like a GPS. Right? Like, the first GPS that I had on my boat was super expensive, and it was terrible. It didn't have a map on it. Like, it was terrible.

Carey Chen: What are you talking about?

Tom Rowland: Yeah. Lorraine. Like, you you go out with Lorraine and, and using a stopwatch to to help you stopwatch.

Carey Chen: Kids are gonna ask, what what's Lorraine?

Tom Rowland: Right. You mean Lorance? Oh, no. No. That was something before Lawrence.

Carey Chen: How did Lawrence with the paper charts?

Tom Rowland: Uh-huh. That that is that is old school. My my grandfather, my grandfather had that. He was a bass fisherman, and, and he had the paper chart on his on his little bass boat. I know I've seen that. And then he had the the color flasher. Yeah. Dude, did you have one of those? Like, the Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. I still use that for ice cold.

Carey Chen: Ink Ink thing that went open down and made a charge. I got I got those holes somewhere somewhere.

Tom Rowland: That is old school.

Carey Chen: Yeah. That is old school for sure. But we will see what we talk in the month another ten years. We'll we'll find out what the hell is going on over here in technology.

Tom Rowland: So where do you think that that, I mean, I guess where you think is that everybody's gonna have it eventually, and it won't be the debate anymore.

Carey Chen: It's it's going down in price for sure. I mean, when it first came out, it was, like, astronomical. No. It's, like, half the price. And I'm I'm sure in a couple years, it's gonna be less and less and less. And, you know, with the technology of, you you know, STARLINK, everything, it it I don't know. There's so much stuff that's gonna be going on this year, because of that. You know, it's gonna change the world completely. Yes. Yes.

47:27 · Why There Are So Few Marine Artists

Tom Rowland: And it's changed the world in the fishing. It's also changed the world in business. And, like, what you're doing in in in business now, you can do it from anywhere. So I find your career really super interesting that you that you mostly wanted to do what you wanted to do. You wanted to fish, and you weren't willing to, like, bend on that. Like, you you wanna fish in these tournaments. You wanna fish for these particular kinds of fish, and you're gonna figure out a way to make a living doing that. Is that kind of accurate?

Carey Chen: Yes. I mean, there's there's very few people. Like I said, there's very few of us marine artists, and and the reason is because there's a lot of lion and tiger artists, the animals. There's a lot of scenery artists. There's a lot of portrait people. But take a look at how many marine artists there

Tom Rowland: are. Yeah. Not not many. And a lot of them I mean, I even look around just at some of the stuff that I've got on my walls here. There's there are people that get it and they get the details, and the fish doesn't it's so easy to make a fish look wrong. And especially when when when that is your your passion and you look at this and just like you, the thing that I'm missing the the difference between you and me is that I can have that picture in my mind. I just haven't been able to put it down on paper like you can. But I can clearly see these images of these certain fish that I've caught. Like, they were like, it was like, it happened one second ago. And when I see it on paper and it's wrong, the eye is too big or too small or the mouth isn't right, and I notice it immediately. Like, it's not like I don't know. I can see that so clearly. So there are few people that can get those details the right way.

Carey Chen: Yeah. And, you know, you you really do have to be a hardcore fisherman and an artist. People who are the best artists in the world, I don't care how good you are. If you don't know how that fish looks, you're you're not gonna be able to paint that fish the way the way we see it as fishermen. You know, the lighting, the the the shape of the fish. And the hardest part about a fish is just like a painting a portrait. Okay? So if you paint a portrait and you put the eye out just a little bit, guess what? A person's not gonna look like that. Okay? Same thing with a fish. The eye has to be in proportion with the mouth. And we as fishermen, I can look at a painting and said, oh, something is wrong. This doesn't look like a fish I catch. And that's how I get that's how I get them right. You know? Yeah. And, like, for instance, this tuna here, bluefin tuna, I would say it's a a big bonito. The shape of this fish is a giant bonito. So big eye tuners are different. Yellowfin tuners are different. This one has, a small eye, a big body, and small fitness. So you have to know all about that stuff, before you pay that. You know? You have to know the anatomy and everything. And there's a niche in the market, what I do, because these fishermen are some of the the richest in the world. I mean, I go to a fishing store, and there's 110 boats, and they're all $56,000,000. Look at the white bottle alone. This is crazy money. That's 450 boats that are over sixty, seventy feet in in sick money. But can you imagine how much gas they burn? They run 18 miles out, 80 miles or 90 miles out and back and all day times almost 500 boats. You know how much fuel that is? It's crazy fuel.

Tom Rowland: Seems like the whole the whole town of of Ocean City would be out of fuel. Yeah. I mean, seriously, I got so much fuel.

Carey Chen: That's gotta be a a world record, out of fuel. Yeah. Yeah. I don't

Tom Rowland: think so.

Carey Chen: Yeah. One of the things possible about flat fishing.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. Sure.

Carey Chen: Because how was your trip in, Alphonse?

51:52 · Seychelles Stories: Providence, Dog Tooth Tuna, and Untouched Water

Tom Rowland: It was amazing. It was it was really fantastic, but I didn't go to Alphonse. I went to Providence. And, and Providence is is even a little further out and a little bit, more, like, primitive, I think. There's only one operation running out there. So we were we had a mother ship. It was it was fantastic. It was beautiful and pristine. It was

Carey Chen: We were all there too. We were there too.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. Just a little bit before us. I remember seeing the those posts, and it was a a couple months before I was actually getting ready for my trip and, and saw your post out there. The Trevally is a is an incredible fish.

Carey Chen: We caught so many of them.

Tom Rowland: I bet you did. I bet

Carey Chen: you did. They were they were a nuisance after a while.

Tom Rowland: I'm sure they were.

Carey Chen: The dog tooth dog tooth were there were so many dog tooth there. It's crazy.

Tom Rowland: We did catch those. We we on the way in, we we trolled for for groceries, and we caught a couple dog tooth, which was the first one of those I'd ever seen. And that's a fish that I've been wanting to catch that fish since I saw a picture of Robert Trossett catching one of those in, like, Saltwater Sportsman magazine twenty years ago. He was on some long range trip, and I was like, one day I'm gonna catch that

Carey Chen: fish. That's my that was my bucket list too.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. It's a crazy fish. I mean, like, tuna with mackerel teeth. Like Yeah. Amazing. Like, I really thought that was great, but just the Seychelles were it was beautiful. It's a it's a long way, but it was worth it. I mean, I I really enjoyed it. I like the triggerfish probably as much as anything fishing for them.

Carey Chen: Oh, no fish on the flats. Right? Yeah. Yeah. And, did you catch a bump head on the flats? I did.

Tom Rowland: I did catch one of those. Yeah.

Carey Chen: I caught it. Look like this.

Tom Rowland: They they are really cool. They didn't it didn't fight like I thought it was going to. Yeah. But the whole the whole setup, you know, you see these things and you can you can wait up to them and you throw, out in front of them and then you're just barely moving it. And, you know, occasionally they'll pick it up. I threw it a bunch of them and only caught one. But the one I caught was was really big, and I didn't get a great picture of it. I had a video because I had a, a chest GoPro on. And so I get the thing in, and I am looking at it. And and the the guide and the boats are are kind of away from me. I was on on my own. And so I go ahead and take the hook out, and I've got it on my GoPro thing, but then the thing kicks out of my hand. Oh my god. I'm trying to catch up to it and run after it. And that was that was the that was my video and my picture of the thing.

Carey Chen: So what's the message in this? Are the permits the same as the ones in Florida?

Tom Rowland: Well, I didn't we didn't have permit in Providence. We no one saw no one saw a permit there, but they do catch them in Alphonse. And I think that they're probably the same permit that are in Australia, which is is kinda it kinda has a little bump on its nose. It's a little slightly different. I went to Australia and caught those, a long time ago, and I thought they were easier than the Florida permit, but still still quite a challenge. I went down there for that. That that's a place that that I I would love to go back. I did a mothership trip in in Carpentaria. We went to the top Carpentaria and worked our way back down. We were fishing all these river mouths. And I went down there with the intention of catching permit, and that being the the fish I was after. And I caught three or four, five of them and thought, god. Look at all these other fish that are here to catch. I mean, we we probably caught over 50 different species of fish down there.

Carey Chen: Yeah. I I I was looking at the coloration. It's it has a little different coloration. A little

Tom Rowland: bit more yellow. Yeah. Yes. A little bit more yellow on it. And the fins are the fins are slightly shorter. The dorsal fin and the ankle fin are slightly shorter, more almost more like a pompano. Yes. But still still full on permit. And the the nose has just got a little bit of a more than than our permit in the in the keys. Yes.

Carey Chen: But I never caught so many species of fish in my life. It was it was incredible.

Tom Rowland: As far as the seashells?

Carey Chen: Yeah. Every drop was a different species.

Tom Rowland: I know. Some crazy colors on those fish, some beautiful, beautiful fish, and stuff I didn't even know about. Emperor

Carey Chen: sniper. Emperor.

Tom Rowland: Emperor snapper. We could do we did catch we did catch some of those. I don't think I caught one, but I think the guy in the boat caught those with me. What we would do is they had they did this thing they would call bombi bashing, and you would take, first of all, the this whole trip was all fly. They didn't even let you bring a spinning rod, which, if we had a spinning rod, we could have caught a lot more fish, especially the trevallis. But we were all fly fishing. And so they would take you to these coral heads, and you would throw just blind casting into these coral heads, and you would catch all kinds of stuff. I mean, every different kind of fish that that that is there. And that was those, what was that that one snapper? It kinda looked like a a bohar. Did you catch those bohar snappers?

Carey Chen: Yes. There was one that looked across between a snook and a grunt.

Tom Rowland: A snook and a grunt. Oh, that was the

Carey Chen: forget what I was thinking.

Tom Rowland: Was it a sweet lips? Was that

Carey Chen: what that was? That's what it was. Yeah. I think it was.

Tom Rowland: It's a crazy fish. I would

Carey Chen: imagine I imagine I don't remember what you were there. Names of these fish.

Tom Rowland: I would imagine where you guys were offshore that you could just be catching anything. I mean, next to the boat, there were trevally everywhere. Next to our our mother ship Oh,

Carey Chen: there was trevally. Every night. There was a lot of those, blue blue trevallis. Mhmm. There's a lot of them all over the place.

Tom Rowland: Did you paint any of the fish that you caught out there?

Carey Chen: I'm working on a dog tooth right now.

Tom Rowland: Okay.

Carey Chen: Yeah. Okay. But, the amazing thing about that trip, I didn't tell you this, but, I flew all the way to meet Anthony of the Bad Company. They had the new one seventy five there sitting in seashells Mhmm. And the release the '46 release. So I flew all the way there. And when I got there, Anthony texted me and says, Gary, I had to go back home. I said, why? They broke into my house. They they stole it in California. I go, what? He says, well, just go out with the guys. Enjoy yourself. And I go, what? So I had the whole fleet to myself that week.

Tom Rowland: Oh. Like, crazy.

Carey Chen: Yeah. It was crazy. I mean I mean, I felt bad. I wanted a fisherman Anthony, but he says, hey. Just jump in the chair. We'll do whatever we want. I said, alright. And we actually bought bottom fish mostly.

Tom Rowland: Bottom fish? And are there, what's the marlin fishing like there? Is it is

Carey Chen: it good if you were to do it? There was good marlin fishing, but they were not the giants that he was after. Gotcha. I I got one that was about 400, and that that was it. So we said, let's let's bottom fish. So we started to bottom fish.

Tom Rowland: So when you're bottom fishing in an area that probably gets zero pressure, I mean, I would imagine that no one is bottom fishing there.

Carey Chen: It is crazy, crazy. You don't even know what you all got. Every time you bring in something, it's something different, completely different.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, this is how good it was where we were. And and it made me think, like, this is what the keys used to be like maybe in the eighteen hundreds, where you could get out to to a place. They were taking our fly rods. And if we got bored or or weren't catching any fish or had had a half an hour before we needed to be back for dinner, they would say, hey. Do you wanna do you wanna go over here and see if we can, like, you could you could troll around and or or ride around and see if you could see a sailfish, or we could just throw here and, see what we could catch on the bottom. And so I was like, well, my experience in Australia was when we when we dropped to the bottom, we caught all these different fish that I had never seen before, and I wanted to do that. And so they just put a big weight on the above the fly, and then just drop the fly down. You're just dropping a fly on a fly line down to the bottom in 30 feet of water. And every time you're hooking some kind of crazy grouper or something that you'd never seen before, it was wild. And I'm like, this has no bait on it. We're we're I mean, this is, like, the worst looking rig I've ever seen, and every drop is something new and big and wild. It was it was unbelievable.

Carey Chen: Yeah. That fishery's on unreal. And the offshore fishing I didn't tell you this, but right after when I got back to Seychelles itself, I was ready to go home. And one of the captains that I knew, Josh, from New Zealand, his boss had these boats sitting down at 82 Viking that that the boss hardly used because he's so busy at work in in Dubai. He says, Carrie, let's go fishing. And I go, alright. I can't say no. So we I had this 82 foot Viking fishing for a couple days, and it was unreal. The offshore fishing, I've never seen so many different species and the bottlefish. We offshore, then we bottle fish. We're offshore, but, I mean, back and forth. We caught sailfish, blue marlin, wahoo, mahi. Every single bottom fish species there is crazy. Oh, how full they I've never seen a fishery like that.

Tom Rowland: That's that's an it's incredible. And, I would imagine that that is that is partly that that the, the location is perfect and the water quality is excellent, but I gotta think that it's also no pressure. No pressure whatsoever.

61:55 · Somali Pirates and Fishing the Edge of the Map

Carey Chen: What I was scared of when I looked at the map, I saw Somalia right there. I said to the captain, captain, what about Somalis? I said, don't worry. We're just gonna stay off the coast. Well, one more if they see you, then there's no problem. Yeah. If they don't see you, that's okay.

Tom Rowland: Well, I think, things changed after that, captain Phillips, you know, incident there. And I think that that, that is not not as, not as aggressive as they once were. But the the the operation that I was on was taken by pirates, at one point.

Carey Chen: I saw a video about that.

Tom Rowland: So that's the same group that I went with, and they got pirated.

Carey Chen: They held the, crew hostage. Yeah. And it paid for them. The government paid to freedom. I saw the video. Mhmm. That is crazy.

Tom Rowland: These guys, I tried to ask them about it. They didn't have a lot to say about it. They didn't

Carey Chen: Well, I'm gonna tell you quickly. When they saw the Somali pirate pirates coming, they got the customers off real quick, And they stayed on there, and then the Somalis captured them. And they were captured for about two weeks. And then the government paid them. They got away with it.

Tom Rowland: Shit.

Carey Chen: So look look for the video on YouTube. You'll see it. Yeah. Yeah.

Tom Rowland: It's scary. It's scary. And I and I I think that once that happened, you know, a lot of people like, that was the hottest destination to go to, and then all of a sudden, people just weren't really as excited about going there for a while. But my experience was that we not only we not see any pirates, we didn't see a single other boat at all

Carey Chen: Yeah. No. We didn't see any other boat. Yeah. Nothing. See anything at all. No.

Tom Rowland: I mean,

Carey Chen: I can't. Scared scared to go that way, and I didn't see anything. I love Seychelles. Seychelles is such a beautiful island.

Tom Rowland: Beautiful island, beautiful people, beautiful food. Everything there was amazing. Yeah. I loved it. It was really great. I'd love to go back again. And and I would like to see some of the other places because I did, you know, asking the guides, you know, about Providence versus, Alphonse and some of the other ones. Apparently, there's different in the bottom structure, more grass on some, which leads to to, you know, certain fish being on certain atolls and and not so much on the others. Yeah. But, you know, certain ones will have a lot more bonefish. We we didn't see a lot of bonefish. That that providence was almost entirely triggerfish and and trevally Yeah. For the flats fisherman. Yeah. At least at least on the tides we were on.

Carey Chen: Yeah. Right? Wouldn't you be bored trying to catch a bone for sure? You would cause so many bonefish.

64:34 · Christmas Island, Kamalami Key, and Fish That Get Lost

Tom Rowland: Well, you know, I mean, I went to another place that I liked so much was, Christmas Island out in the South Pacific. And and, you know, there's there's tons and tons of bonefish there, and Yes. You can catch I mean, you could catch a 100 there easy. And, what I liked about the bonefish was that there was always a plan b. Like, yes. I mean, we caught plenty of bonefish in the Florida Keys, but I like bonefish. You know? I mean, they're great. But you could go and you could go trigger fishing for a while, and you could you could fish for milkfish. You could fish for the Travales. And if any of one of those wasn't really happening like you thought it was going to, you could always go back and catch catch some bonefish. That was something that we didn't really have in Providence is is that plan b. It was like you were you were you were in it for the Trevallis. And until the tide got right, you weren't gonna see any triggerfish. Yep.

Carey Chen: I wanna tell you a spot that one of my favorite. And have you ever been to Kamalamici in Andros?

Tom Rowland: No. Oh, I know what that I I mean, I have, been to Andros and been near that lodge.

Carey Chen: That's the Jolters. The Jolters. Yes. No. Okay.

Tom Rowland: Fish The Jolters, but with a guide where we went from middle bite up and trailer to

Carey Chen: up and

Tom Rowland: Fish the Jolters, and it was fantastic. That is the most beautiful area.

Carey Chen: It's the best boatfish in the world, I think, that this Jolters is.

Tom Rowland: Yes.

Carey Chen: My friend owns Kamalami Key, which is is just about 17 miles west of Nassau. Okay? If you look at the map of Andros. So 30 ago, we were, going through The Bahamas, and he found that strip of island three miles long. It's a barrier island. It's got water on one side and water on the other. It's just a strip that goes out three miles long. So he bought that, and he it took him thirty years to get it going. And now it's one of the top resorts in The Caribbean. But here's the coolest thing. I go there at least five times a year, and he said, come on over. You can take a golf cart and drive down the strip and. Oh, so so you drive it along. You see the boatfish. You jump out of the car. You run over there. You when you fly around, you catch a couple and you go up another one with your golf cart and catch a couple more. It's crazy. You don't need you don't need a boat.

Tom Rowland: That sounds amazing.

Carey Chen: Yeah. It is.

Tom Rowland: I mean, there's so much incredible fishing over in The Bahamas. It's it's, it's wild. But that I haven't been to that Kamala Makay. I've heard of it.

Carey Chen: Okay. Let I'll I'll give you the information there. Yeah. But here's the craziest thing that ever happened there. The guys were fishing the jolters one year, and my friend Brian, who owns it, sends me a picture. He says, look what they called in the jolters. Guess what it was? A big 300 pound tuna. What? I said I said, where did I catch it? This is in the jolters. I said, what happened? He said, well, the the the bonefish guy is going along, and he sees this fin going up the shallow. And they look, and it's the giant tuna. So they took the flats boat and rammed it and put it on top of the flats boat. And he said, wow. Look look he said, look at this 300 pound yellowfin tuna. I says, I eat a tater. That's not a yellowfin tuna. That's a big eyed tuna. A

Tom Rowland: big eye?

Carey Chen: It was a big eyed tuna.

Tom Rowland: Wow.

Carey Chen: So I I I thought about it a couple times. I said, well, it makes sense. You look at the map. The drop off is on both sides of the jolters. So he's thinking this this tuna probably coming across, hits the flats instead of chasing bait or something and gets lost up in in all the flats. But that was crazy. Have you

Tom Rowland: ever seen something like that, personally, where or or just some kind of crazy weird fish in a place that it shouldn't be?

Carey Chen: Well, I've seen a lot of for some reason, big eyed tunas get lost a lot. I've seen them in the, canals in The Keys. They get lost Really? Backcountry there. You never saw a couple there's a couple of videos of where catching the the big eye tunas in the channels in The Keys.

Tom Rowland: That's wild. No. I haven't

Carey Chen: seen that.

Tom Rowland: I saw a

Carey Chen: water fish.

Tom Rowland: For a while, people were getting videos from the bridges, and there was a it could have been a big eye. They were calling it a a yellowfin or a bluefin, you know,

Carey Chen: from the

Tom Rowland: bridge, but they were big tuna under the bridge.

Carey Chen: Big tuna. I saw it.

Tom Rowland: You think those are big guys?

Carey Chen: They're they're big guys. Yeah. For some reason, they they they go in shallow water. Just like, bluefin tunas, they they come up in the shallows. They'll go across the island around every year in the flats, and they they they guys that have the kites up, they just hit all of them there and and, mess them up. You know?

Tom Rowland: Wow. Usually, well, it only happened maybe once, maybe maybe twice. But tarpon fishing out on the ocean side, saw Mahi swimming up at one of those channels on, out in front of Key West, like a pretty good size, like 40 pound Mahi swimming up in there, casting crazily trying to catch this thing. Like, this would be the most incredible thing ever to catch a Mahi

Carey Chen: right here.

Tom Rowland: But I don't know why fish do that, to to end up in some place like that that they just shouldn't be or or but but I also kinda feel like there's no accidents. Like, if that's what happens and you see it more than once, then that's something that those fish do on the regular.

Carey Chen: Yeah. Yeah. I just don't

Tom Rowland: see it very often.

Carey Chen: I'm sure all this you you have a lot of you and I have a lot of stories of stuff we've seen over the years. It's some crazy stories.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. I mean, yes. For sure. And I'm sure you have some crazier ones than me because as you go further and further out, like, with people like Anthony and fishing on these these these places where no one has been, you're gonna see crazier and crazier things.

70:43 · Madeira: 7,000 Feet Straight Up and Lines In at the Dock

Carey Chen: There's some craziest stuff I've I've seen. And, but, I'm I'm here in in Palm Beach, and, I travel about 30 times a year now. But mostly, I go to Madeira, Portugal, which is one of my favorite places. I mean, the fish is not the the best. You know, it it when you catch one, you're gonna catch a really big one, but you gotta be patient. Mhmm. But the Azores and Madeira or Portugal are are my favorite places.

Tom Rowland: That's awesome. And so you're traveling 30 times a year?

Carey Chen: Yeah. One of my other places, Galapagos, which is have you been there?

Tom Rowland: No. My daughter went there Yeah. One time.

Carey Chen: I just got back from Belize. Another you've probably been there already. The best last fishing there is.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. That's that's a really great place. Yeah. And, and Honduras, just just south of that.

Carey Chen: Honduras are fish Honduras. Beautiful. And, but, Madeira now, is a 30 mile wide island, and it shoots up 7,000 feet. So at sea level, it's probably 85 degrees, and then also when you go up to the top, it's 50 degrees. Wow. It's a it's a crazy place. Beautiful, safe, modern, at the best part, cheapest place you'll ever go

Tom Rowland: to. Cheapest place. Is the fishing is the fishing cheap there?

Carey Chen: So, yes, it is. So in the marina where we fish, as you come out the marina, you you don't even run. You you actually drop the lines right in. Right? And yeah. You and and you're dropping lines in flat calm seas like like a lake. Yeah. So there's there's no I've

Tom Rowland: only done that one place ever, and that's in Hawaii.

Carey Chen: There's no running. There's no running at all. No run no coming coming back in. You just put the lines in and just pulling the arm. I've I've caught two marlin right in front of the marina about five or 600 pounds Wow. Within within ten minutes of just going out marina. Crazy. Incredible. It is. Yeah. Incredible. It's so beautiful. Chris.

72:53 · Muhammad Ali in the Living Room: Growing Up a Promoter's Son

Tom Rowland: Well, I can tell that we're gonna need to do another another podcast, to, to hear some more of these stories because we've obviously got some incredible stories. But one thing before we wrap up here, I wanna ask you. You've you've had, well, first of all, your dad was a boxing promoter that brought, a a big fight. It was Foreman Frazier to Jamaica.

Carey Chen: Yes. Yes. The heavyweight champion of the world he brought to Jamaica.

Tom Rowland: That's that's incredible. And you had this incredible childhood of seeing, you know, Muhammad Ali, George Foreman, Joe Frazier. Oh. There was there was talk about Bob Marley and your kicking soccer ball in your yard. Like, what is it like growing up like that? Like, that's that's an amazing childhood to watch that.

Carey Chen: Yeah. My dad was a very, very successful man in Jamaica, and he, was a boxing promoter. And to bring the heavyweight champion of the world to a third world country. He gotta have some big connections. So Yeah. His his best friend was Sugar Ray Robinson, which is another famous fighter. And and because he went to Vegas and he hung out with all these, he hung out with a rat pack, you know, Dean Martin, Frank Sinatra, Sammy Davis. I got pictures with him at Sammy and and just so many celebrities. So when I was young, I met all these people. And not only that, my dad started the first Kentucky franchise in Jamaica. And the colonel the colonel used to visit us every year.

Tom Rowland: You met the real colonel?

Carey Chen: I I Colonel Sanders. Yeah.

Tom Rowland: Does he look like he does on the chicken bucket?

Carey Chen: Yeah. Yeah. He does. I I'll send you a picture of that one. But, some of the people that I met, I actually didn't know who they were when I was young. And then when I grew up, I said, oh, shoot. That's so and so and so. And, one of them was Fidel Castro. Really? So yeah. So the reason why he used to come to my dad's office, his boxers used to compete against my dad's boxers. So he was a rival. And so I got a picture. I'll I'll send it back to you too of of of him and my dad in in his office Wow. Arranging a fight between the Cuban boxer and the Jamaican boxers. Wow. And so I think, when I met him, I said, dad, he smells like cigars. Take it easy. Just call him Uncle Fidel. Wow. So some of those things there that, you know, we never had phones, but or if I ever recorded them. There's just some some, you know, going to Vegas and meeting some of these people. And then my dad said, oh, did you have a good time with that kid your age? And I says says, yeah. He said, you were president Kennedy. That's his that's his kid, Kennedy. Alright? Oh, okay. I just act casual like it's no big deal. And there was movie stars coming in at our house. Bob Marley was, played at my mother's yard in Miami on every one or two months he'd be there. And he just one of the guys, and he invited us to his concert at, James l Knight Center. I can remember this. So we're on the side here just watching him right in front of us, just singing up right here in front. And at that time, he was just one of the guys who wasn't, I guess, when you go out, that's when you get famous. You know? Just one of the guys we never thought that he would be, like, the most famous person in the world. You know? When I go to Africa, and I showed him the picture of my dad and Bob. They all like they wanna bow down to me. He's like their idol. Mhmm. He's like, they're they're they're they're savior. You know? Right. So do

Tom Rowland: you think that meeting all these people and seeing seeing your dad and the way that he was able to do business, has that helped you to build what you've been able to build from your art?

Carey Chen: No. Not at all. I don't know. Completely separate things. My dad was more of a a gambler, boxer. He had about 50 racehorses. He's into the gambling thing. I wasn't into that. It's a completely different, scenario. Fishing and horse racing gabbles, two completely different things.

77:26 · Talent, Social Media, and Giving Back

Tom Rowland: But businesses but business can be similar. But I I find it interesting. Like, there there's several of the marine artists that I've become friends with and had on the podcast. And and I would think that, you know, in in in my world of doing TV shows and dealing with creative people, creative people aren't always the best at selling their themselves at marketing. At at and you see, like, several of my friends either, like, have a wife that is really good at marketing, and they're really good at art. And other people have a business partner or and then there's a rare combination where people are good at both. And No. You seem to be that rare combination Yeah. That you're that you're

Carey Chen: Well, I'm more I'm more I'm not a big businessman. I'm more of a fisherman, and, I'm into the social media. I between all my social media together, I think there's about probably 3,000,000 followers. So, you know, you got the TikTok, you got the YouTube, you got the, you know, Facebook, and then you got the Instagram and all that stuff. I I post a lot. Why? Because I got so much content. I travel so much. I got not only content of traveling and fishing, but my art both together. You know? I mixed both of them together. I actually put more fishing than I put my paintings. Mhmm. You know? Right now, we're we're building our new merchandise line, clothing, all kinds of things on the website. So I'm I'm not promoting it yet until it's ready, but, it's gonna be big. It's gonna be big. I decided to go all out. Why? Because I got more than 3,000 things sitting in a hard drive that nobody has probably never seen before. And I've been just quiet with that. But when it comes out, it's gonna be it's big. It's gonna be big. And I'm not gonna be doing the work. I got other people doing the work now. That's why I did it. You know?

Tom Rowland: Well, that's that's, well, I mean, that's that's very consistent with what I've seen is that you have a partner or something that handles the business, and the artist handles the art. Yeah. But it's it's it's impressive what you've been able to build. It it really is. And, and and and you're doing it through passion, for for what you like to do. So if you were to give people in the audience any piece of advice that, on on how to make your your passion your profession, what would you I'm sure people ask you all the time, like, wow. It's amazing what you've done. I wanna do x or y. What do you have any advice that you would give someone?

Carey Chen: You know, it's it's tough to say that when when you have a a talent like that, you gotta have a talent for that. You know? You you have to have both a love for the fishing sport and the talent together. It's tough. A lot of people don't have that together. You know? Up and coming artists, I would advise just keep painting. The the more you do, the better you get. I'm actually getting better. Anybody has been this long, I'm still getting better every time I do. And the more I do is the more I learn myself. You know? If don't take any lessons. I mean, I think it's the biggest waste of time. Somebody says, I wanna be an artist. Let me go take some lessons. If you're born with it, you're born with it. Just like singing. You could be a bad singer and say, hey. I wanna be a singer. You're never gonna be a good singer. Forget it. I'm not let let's say that, but it it would be hard because you gotta be born with it.

Tom Rowland: Sure.

Carey Chen: And and what I do also is I give back because when you're when you god gives you this talent, you gotta give back the other people. I do a lot of charities. I help you know, I I donate a lot of prints. I was honored by FWC, some years ago. Rodney Barrett is a good friend of mine and Mhmm. Fish and wildlife commissioner. He honored me, for my contributions, teaching kids how to paint, all kinds of things. You know? I just love helping out others because if I got the talent, I gotta give back.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. Yeah. Well, you've done a great job of it. You really have. Your stuff's everywhere, and, and you've inspired a lot of people to, to to find what their what their talent is. So good for you, man. And you've been able to travel the world and catch amazing fish while you're doing.

Carey Chen: Amazing life. Amazing life. Seriously. I can't complain. I can't complain.

Tom Rowland: Well, I wanna really thank you for coming on. It's been great to get to know you better, and, I'd love to do this again.

Carey Chen: Yes. Thank you so much for having me, and, let's get together sometime. I'll be down to the Keys soon. So Let's do it. Move with us. Let's do that. Let's do it, buddy.

Tom Rowland: Alright. Thank you, Carrie.

Carey Chen: Thank you very thank you very much.