Dr. Tracy Fanara | Red Tide, Saharan Dust & Florida Water Quality Science is a Tom Rowland Podcast interview with an environmental engineer and scientist who earned all three of her degrees from the University of Florida and specializes in red tide, water quality, and hydrological systems. The conversation traces the surprising link between Saharan dust storms in Africa and toxic algae blooms off Florida, and what it was like living through the catastrophic 2018 water crisis that cost Florida $2.7 billion.
Listen now: press play in the YouTube player above, or listen to the episode here.
Red tide is caused by Karenia brevis, a native phytoplankton species that releases toxins. Blooms are thought to start 30-40 miles offshore on the ocean bottom and reach the surface through upwelling events, often triggered by hurricanes or strong weather systems.
When Lake Okeechobee water containing toxic cyanobacteria is released to the Caloosahatchee River and reaches the coast, Florida red tide can consume the nutrients and dead microcystis cells in that water, creating a self-feeding cycle that can exacerbate blooms.
Scientists are testing mitigation technologies including clay that binds cells and toxins, and time-release oxidizers. The challenge is treating massive, dispersed blooms without harming other marine life, and predicting when blooms will dissipate is extremely difficult.
The 2018 crisis involved simultaneous toxic cyanobacteria in Lake Okeechobee and an intense red tide bloom on the Southwest coast. Heavy rainfall forced releases of contaminated water that fed the red tide, causing $2.7 billion in economic losses and toxic aerosols traveling more than 30 miles inland.
Saharan dust from Africa travels across the Atlantic and provides iron, a limiting nutrient, to marine cyanobacteria in the ocean. These organisms eventually feed red tide on the ocean bottom where blooms are thought to originate.
Dr. Tracy Fanara is an environmental engineer and scientist with all three degrees from the University of Florida, previously program manager for environmental health at Mote Marine Laboratory during the 2018 crisis, now a portfolio manager at NOAA working on ecosystem modeling.
This conversation opened my eyes to connections I never would have made on my own — the idea that dust from Africa feeds a bacteria that feeds red tide off our coast. Hearing what she went through during the 2018 crisis is something every Florida angler and boater should hear directly from her.
When the conversation turns to environmental engineering, Dr. Fanara drops a line that stops the conversation cold: there's only been one true human invention in all of history, and everything else is biomimicry. Worth hearing her explain why.
Dr. Fanara unpacks the infrastructure nightmare facing coastal Florida cities, where aging wastewater systems can't handle the volume of development, and connects it to the broader Lake Okeechobee crisis. Press play to hear the full breakdown.
This might be Dr. Fanara's favorite example of how everything is connected — dust storms from Africa eventually feeding the organism that becomes red tide on Florida's coast. It's a connection that seems impossible until she walks through each step.
Dr. Fanara opens up about what she calls the hardest point in her life — the 2018 red tide crisis, including death threats from people searching for someone to blame. Worth hearing in her own words.
Listen now: press play in the YouTube player above, or listen here.
This conversation with Dr. Tracy Fanara opened my eyes to connections I never would have made on my own. What strikes me most is how everything she talks about comes back to the same fundamental problem: we built too much, too fast, without thinking about long-term consequences.
Dr. Fanara is working on solutions at NOAA that could help us understand and predict these events better. If you care about Florida's water quality, whether you're an angler, a boater, or just someone who lives here, press play above and hear the whole conversation.
Dr. Dana Wedzel (lead scientist on time-release oxidizer mitigation technology), Jim Cantore (Weather Channel meteorologist who called Dr. Fanara "the face of red tide")
Dr. Tracy Fanara is an environmental engineer and scientist with all three degrees from the University of Florida. She specializes in water quality and hydrological systems, with particular expertise in red tide and its connection to environmental factors like nutrient runoff. Previously program manager for environmental health at Mote Marine Laboratory during the 2018 water crisis, she now works at NOAA as a portfolio manager developing ecosystem models covering ocean bottom processes, storm surge, algae blooms, oil spills, and coastal erosion.
Tom Rowland Podcast — Episode 962: Dr. Tracy Fanara
In this episode: the Saharan dust is my favorite everything is connected example, there's only been one true human invention and it's actually the wheel, what red tide really is, the 2018 crisis that was the hardest point in my life, and desalination and Florida's water future — in the exact words spoken.
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Dr. Tracy Fanara: My name is doctor Tracy Fanara, environmental engineer and scientist, and you're on the Tom Rowland podcast.
Tom Rowland: What's going on, everybody? This is the Tom Rowland podcast brought to you by StarBright. And today, we have another part of our series, anglers unite, with our partner, Burnowind. And the anglers unite series has been a really good one for me. I've, learned a lot about different ways that we as anglers or we as outdoors people can get together to really move the needle on things that make a big difference, and we've talked about a lot of different things. And water quality is definitely one of the things that I do believe that we can have the biggest impact by working together. And today, we have doctor Tracy Fanara, and she is an environmental engineer, a scientist. I consider her a hydrologist, and, and I even told her that I thought she was a meteorologist, but she told me that she's definitely not a meteorologist. But, anyway, we're gonna talk about all types of different water quality issues, mostly in the state of Florida. Some we've touched on before, like pharmaceuticals in the water, others, red tide. She is going to be our first red tide specialist that we're gonna have in the podcast, and I'd love to bring her in right now. Tracy, how are you?
Dr. Tracy Fanara: Good. Thank you so much for having me.
Tom Rowland: Oh, very excited. Very excited. So, an environmental engineer, scientist, a hydrologist. I called you a meteorologist. You said you're not. But where where did you, study?
Dr. Tracy Fanara: I went I got all three degrees from the University of Florida. After my BS in environmental engineering, I worked in land development, and I saw how we were managing our lands and went back to school to prove that there was a better way to approach land management, water quality so that we have a more sustainable future economically and health wise here in Florida.
Tom Rowland: So when you go back and and try to find a better way, did you do you think you found a better way?
Dr. Tracy Fanara: Yes. So low impact development, there's different techniques that you can basically, use when you're designing, a new or even retrofitting an area, where you can basically treat water where it is. So let me let me back up for a second. So, basically, traditionally, we have we have built our systems, our lands, you know, any kind of, you know, building that we have to get rid of the water as fast as possible. So we put concrete, we put a bunch of pipes, and and we try to prevent from flooding. But what happens is that we keep on building. And not only do we take that water that used to be underneath the ground, we put it on top of the ground or through pipes where it transfers to natural water bodies. Without treatment, that natural soil gives it, physical, biological, and chemical treatment, causing erosion, water quality prop problems, shock shocking temperatures for wildlife, and just basically changes the ecosystem that we know and love. So there are techniques called low impact development techniques that you can, actually implement that will slow down that water, that will treat water at the source, that will prevent from those algae blooms, erosion, ecosystem changes downstream, and will allow for our water table to continue to be, percolated so that we don't have as many sinkholes.
Tom Rowland: It sounds like, on a very small scale, you just described the Everglades on a larger scale. Like like the process of the Everglades. Like, slow the water down, have it percolate through, use soil and and natural, plants and everything to to clean the water as as it should be. Even before we were, you know, here in the way that we are today, the water all flowed south. And we talk about this a lot because, we're supporters of captains for clean water and and very familiar with, the problems, that are occurring in the Everglades. But what it sounded like you just described, when I'm listening to it, it's describe it seemed like on a building site, you could basically make a small Everglades, like, the same principles apply. Is that right or not?
Dr. Tracy Fanara: Yeah. Basically, you're working with the land, not fighting against it. And and, honestly, like, there's only been one true human invention. You know, everything else is biomimicry. So getting water to the quality that we want and doing it in a in a mimicked way using the other Everglades and other areas as an example is the is a way to go.
Tom Rowland: And so what's the one through, human invention?
Dr. Tracy Fanara: It's a great question. It's actually the wheel.
Tom Rowland: The wheel.
Dr. Tracy Fanara: And so that's it's the wheel. And I hate the saying, like, don't reinvent the wheel because I feel like the wheel's been reinvented more than anything else, and and it needs to be. Right? We need to innovate. But, yeah, that I mean, it it was an invention out of necessity back in, like, 3500 BC, and, apparently, the first wheel was a pottery wheel.
Tom Rowland: Interesting. So, when we go to reinvent the wheel and you look at a place like Fort Lauderdale with the problems that they're having, with sewage getting into the water, which we've talked about a number of times here, Where where do we go there? Like, what what as you're with all of you studied, like, the city is is so big. Like, what what is the solution there? How do we how do we deal with the problem? It just seems like I mean, the way that my friend describes it that's from, you know, Fort Lar there's just too many toilets. Like, you put in other you put in another big apartment building here, there's 500 toilets in there. You put in another one across the street, there's another 500 toilets over there. Like, where does all that water go? And it the infrastructure just doesn't seem like it it can handle more building, yet we continue to build more and more. So what in your opinion, what's the I'm sure there's not a simple solution, but what is a solution?
Dr. Tracy Fanara: You are hitting on my soapbox right now. You know, we in in environmental engineering, we have these something called build out conditions. And it's like the the max that this area can handle, whether it's impervious surface or building, water, wastewater, and that that is dependent on your capacity of your wastewater treatment plant. Now Fort Lauderdale isn't alone with this problem of sewage reaching the coast. Okay? Any coastal city and or any coastal area where there's pipes near the coast that get inundated, they are subject to these beach closures because of high levels of fecal bacteria. And, basically, what happens is it's called infiltration inundation. So these pipes really close to the coast, when it rains or when there's sea level rise, these pipes are getting inundated. And as the pipes age, there's cracks and crevices that groundwater can actually infiltrate. Then that reaches a wastewater treatment plant at a capacity that it wasn't built for. And the wastewater treatment plant either has to, you know, release raw wastewater or a mix of raw and treated wastewater into natural water bodies. I mean, there's there's other ways. Like, there's pipe burst. There's the fact that some wastewater treatment plants don't have the capacity even if they don't have I and I. So so there's a lot of issues, but this is not a localized issue. This is a this is a pretty coast wide issue. And on the West Coast Of Florida, we don't close for much, but we close for bacteria. And, you know, whenever there's a beach closure, which happens often, it's because of those those poop bacteria.
Tom Rowland: Right. So where do we go from here?
Dr. Tracy Fanara: So
Tom Rowland: Redo the the infrastructure, maybe.
Dr. Tracy Fanara: Yeah. It's really expensive. That's the thing. Like, it's always cheaper to plan and prepare up front than it is to take care of a problem after it happens. Right? But needing to replace pipes is always a problem. It's just that when those pipes are getting submerged over and over again because they're near the coastline and we're building more on top, and then the water is, you know, rising, and then we have more stormwater coming in because of all the building. That's where, you know, the the lifetime of a pipe might change. So the first thing that you can do is, you know, make sure that we're maintaining our pipe systems. Next thing is don't permit a building or hotel, whatever it is, unless the wastewater treatment plant has the capacity for it, and has a capacity considering I and I. I think that that's where we go wrong as well. So in Sarasota, people kinda took matters into their own hands and tried a couple things. There's a company called CarbonX that I used to work with, And what they did is put a huge tank after the wastewater treatment process. So in wastewater treatment, you basically only do, like, primary and secondary treatment. You don't go through the tertiary treatment to get to the drinking water level. Right? So you only have that that primary and secondary, and then still at that point, the nutrients is really high. But so what this company did was not only, provide a next stage of treatment stuff that you find in your water filter, but also provide more storage for those times of overflow, so that they're not releasing into into a natural water body. Instead, they have that extra storage, to give them a little bit more wiggle room. And, apparently, that was pretty successful. I don't know, expense wise, how how much that would be compared to just expanding the wastewater treatment plant. I did design a few of those for Tampa Bay area back in the day. But, but, yeah, I mean, we just have to do better planning. You know? Economics upfront is always a is always a problem for long term long term economic gain. I mean, no matter what you look at.
Tom Rowland: Yeah. It seems like a real pickle that, that we find ourselves in because I don't know. The early settlers of Florida probably never dreamed that many other people would like to or as many people would like to come down to Florida as have, and we can probably thank air conditioning and mosquito spraying for that because Florida was a really rough place before air conditioning and and mosquito spraying. And I don't think that anyone dreamed that it would be as popular as it is today, but, that makes a big difference, you know, that making it a lot easier. One of the things that I like about, what I've seen from your accounts and from from what you talk about is how everything seems to be connected. Right? So this wastewater is connected to red tide in some way, shape, or form. This this problem that we're talking about right now is connected to, the problems that we see with, with the outflows of Lake Okeechobee in some way, shape, or form. So and and then an interesting thing, I wanna show you this this picture too. I I was looking through your your stuff this morning, and you were talking about an unrelated phenomenon, the Saharan dust in the atmosphere. And, and and you had a really good explanation of that. And I wanted to show you this picture that I have framed right here in my office. But that picture, can you see that?
Dr. Tracy Fanara: Yeah. Where was it taken?
Tom Rowland: In Key West. That's in Key West in about in about 2,000 maybe. And, there like, that's just a regular film camera. There were no filters. I don't even think that had a polarizing filter on it. And that's just the way it looked that morning. I wish I could say that I was a good enough photographer to enhance the natural light, you know, to make something look like that. But that we we had this Saharan dust in the atmosphere at this time, and it was like this for, like, about a week and a half. Every morning was just these crazy sunrises, and this was probably the best photo that I that I got of it. It was my friend. We were fishing right next to one another, And, and I got that that photo of them, but that's That's incredible. Incredible photos, the Saharan dust. So tell us about that. Like, what is the what is the phenomenon that that brings Saharan dust all the way to Key West like that?
Dr. Tracy Fanara: Yeah. So, honestly, the Saharan Saharan dust is my favorite everything is connected example because you take dust that's coming over from the Saharan Africa. Okay? It it lifts up into this Sahara dust layer. Okay? It comes over the Atlantic. It impedes on hurricanes, so this usually happens during the summer during hurricane season. And you notice that we get this this low in hurricane formation. And then all of a sudden, it picks back up right after the the Saharan dust, it clears. But it comes over to to the Amazon. It feeds the Amazon rainforest, but it also ends up in the Gulf Of Mexico and feeds a precursor to Florida red tide called trichodesmium. Now this is a this is a marine cyanobacteria species that lives in low nutrients, but their limiting nutrient is iron, and they can get iron from that Saharan dust. So the Saharan Saharan dust can feed this bloom that then dies and feeds red tide on the bottom of the ocean where we think these blooms start.
Tom Rowland: Wow. Wow.
Dr. Tracy Fanara: That's great. Right?
Tom Rowland: Yeah. It is. And so the it's just the upper level winds at a certain time that I guess they're having storms over there, which get the get the dust up into the atmosphere, and then it moves all the way over.
Dr. Tracy Fanara: Right.
Tom Rowland: Crazy. And it seems like that that picture would have probably been taken in May or June. Probably May. Would that be consistent with what you would think for the
Dr. Tracy Fanara: I would think a little bit later than that.
Tom Rowland: Could have been late. It could have been June, but it probably wouldn't have been July.
Dr. Tracy Fanara: Okay.
Tom Rowland: I just know where we were fishing right there. We would
Dr. Tracy Fanara: Right. Right.
Tom Rowland: Later. But, yeah, phenomenon. And the the most I've ever seen. Like, you'll see it sometimes, but that year, it was thick. And for whatever reason, it was it was crazy thick. So it feeds red tide, and you say that, we we think that red tide begins in the deep cold part of the ocean?
Dr. Tracy Fanara: Yes. So, we think it feeds a species that feeds red tide. Like, it's this whole domino effect. But, yeah, I it's thought that these blooms start 30 to 40 miles offshore, of Tampa Bay, on the ocean bottom. And then with upwelling or currents or both, these blooms are brought to the surface and brought inland. For example, anytime we see these hurricanes come through and we see the water being pushed off Tampa Bay, we saw this in Irma, and we just saw this with, Milton. We saw this with, what was it? Adalia?
Tom Rowland: Mhmm. Where it's empties out Tampa Bay. Is that what you're talking about?
Dr. Tracy Fanara: Yeah. Basically, empties out Tampa Bay. And, no, Adalia wasn't one of them. But, anyway, whenever that happens, we know that there's probably a forced upwelling event that happened. And those bottom waters come to the surface, bringing nutrients, that's where a lot of the nutrients is on the bottom of the I mean, you guys know that all too well. Gravity, everything that dies goes to the bottom. So all that organic matter has a lot of nutrients, and Florida red tide cells. There's thought to be a cyst phase that no one has really found yet. I am I'm kinda dead set on finding the cyst phase in a natural environment. But with upwelling, those waters come to the surface and, and the bloom begins.
Tom Rowland: So let's talk about just just red tide. You know, a lot of people have heard of red tide. They see the effects of red tide. But can you, go into whether, first of all, whether it's a completely natural phenomenon or something that that is somewhat man made, or does some of our behavior and some of our habits, some of our mistakes, can can it accentuate the red tide? So let's just start with, is it is it is it natural?
Dr. Tracy Fanara: I think number three was was the way to go. So, I don't like using the word natural because people have such a problem with it. I've noticed that it's really a trigger word. It's a native species. So that's kind of what I like to say. It's a, it's a it's a unicellular organism, a phytoplankton that releases a toxin. This toxin can not only harm aquatic life, but the toxin can actually aerosolize, attach to sea salt particles in the atmosphere, move on shore with winds, causing coughing or sneezing. But if you have asthma or COPD, this can be really serious. And in times with really intense high concentration blooms, these toxic aerosols can we found have traveled more than 30 miles inland during the the water crisis of two thousand eighteen.
Tom Rowland: Mhmm. Yeah. And and I I don't know. A lot of the a lot of the listeners may not have have had that effect with, with red tide, but it certainly has affected me before where it is I mean, it's a raspy you know, you just can't clear your coat. It it's not good. So if if this is native, which it appears that it that it probably is, most things that are native have a benefit to them in some way, shape, or form. What what would be the benefit of this bacteria or this rodenticide?
Dr. Tracy Fanara: That's a great question. So a lot of scientists think that that its natural purpose is to basically reset the ecosystem, use it as a reset. Now if Florida had this species Karenia brevis, they're really slow growers. So they're outcompeted for nutrients, which is why they've adapted this this toxin release. But but we have a bloom pretty much every year since since recording. It's when it gets close to shore and can use our nutrients from land land derived nutrients to to feed and exacerbate, that's really when the problems start.
Tom Rowland: And so what what was confusing to me is that, I've always heard that when the you know, let's just say that there's a big outflow of water to the East And West Coast Of Florida because we have a big rain event or a hurricane or something. Lake Okeechobee fills up. They've gotta get rid of that water. You have an unnatural amount of of, freshwater going out the sides of the state. A lot of this is also carrying with it a lot of, you know, fertilizer, other things that are on the land or it this water encounters. It goes out, and I was always under the impression that this was happening at very warm times of the year where that water would go out with this extra nutrients in it, and then the red tide would somehow blow up because of that. And I thought it was the heat from the water, but then looking and listening to what you're saying is that the red tide actually lives in the cold part of the and it's the upwelling. So how is it that that that effluent and that water that's going out the side of the state is accentuating or exacerbating this problem?
Dr. Tracy Fanara: Yeah. And I wouldn't get too attached to temperature when it comes to red tide because this species acts differently in natural environment than it does in a laboratory. But in the lab, it likes it best between sixty five and eighty six degrees, but we've seen it survive at higher temperatures and at lower temperatures. And when it is on the ocean bottom, if it is in assist phase, that that brings it to a whole another temperature, you know, realm. But but yeah. I mean so we wanted to keep the lake level as low as possible so that you didn't have to release in the summer when Right. We would you know? But we have an ongoing red tide, and they had to release. So so let's back up for a second just in case anybody is listening that doesn't know about Lake Okeechobee. We have this big lake in the middle of the state, and and basically, it it drained down to the Everglades. That was the national way of water. People from from up north bought land down here in Florida south of this lake. They went down there, and it was all wet. They couldn't build houses. They couldn't farm. So they put a a big dam south of the lake. And that allowed them to start farming and building houses, and there was a hurricane that came through in 1926 and broke the dam. Two years later, another hurricane came through, and this one caused thousands of lives. So the army corps of engineers came in to fix the problem, and their problem that they were fixing was simply to stop letting water come south. So they built they built basically an engineered system, and and this is why it's so important for engineers to work with scientists and ecologists and biologists because everything is connected in its own system. But now anytime the the lake gets to a certain level, it's released to the Caloosahatchee River on the West and the Saint Lucie on the East. And a lot of the the in the summer, this lake can be completely like 95% in 2018, it was covered with cyanobacteria dominated by a toxic species of cyanobacteria. So if you've ever seen that green thick gross stuff on top of a lake, it's it's like, at least cyanobacteria. And there's thousands of species, but but this time, this bloom was dominated by Microcystis. So we had a toxic algae bloom in Lake Okeechobee. We had Florida red tide on the coast. We got a lot of rainfall, and that water was released to the Caloosahatchee filling in with this green slime into all the canal ways, and then finally out to the coast where Florida red tide can not only use the nutrients in this nutrient rich water, but Florida red tide could actually consume microcystis, dead microcystis, which dies in the salt water. So so that bloom and at one point, Florida red tide gets to a point where it can basically feed itself. It doesn't need any more land derived nutrients because it's killing fish. It's, you know, has that their own life cycle. They can even consume dead and dying hernia bruvace cells. So it becomes this this self feeding blob. I shouldn't use the word blob. Self feeding system.
Tom Rowland: And so when it becomes that, and we've probably seen that become that many times, what causes it to go away? Because it does come and go, or it seems to, or it it comes and causes all kinds of problems that nobody wants to walk on the beach with a bunch of dead fish. It's the the the, the cardiovascular problems that we have with it, but then sometimes it'll just go away. So what causes it to go away?
Dr. Tracy Fanara: You're right. Sometimes blooms last for, like, weeks or years. And we're really there's we're so much better at predicting initiation than we are at dissipation. There's so many factors that are involved, like, you know, weather and and ocean currents, nutrient availability, the the life of of this bloom, the currents. Like, does it its power is in numbers. So there there's a lot of offshore wind dispersing the bloom. They're less likely to survive Because as I said, they're not, you know they get out competed for nutrients. So there are so many things that come into play. And when we think about the fact that, you know, predicting weather outside of fourteen days is, you know, not very good. I so predicting Florida red tide months in advance and that dissipation is near impossible for now. But there are mitigation strategies that people are trying, right now at a Mote Marine Laboratory.
Tom Rowland: Yeah. So I saw a couple of those. What can you tell me about what those mitigation strategies are? I saw one that was interesting with Clay.
Dr. Tracy Fanara: Yeah. So I worked a little bit
Tom Rowland: I don't know which one you wanna start with.
Dr. Tracy Fanara: I mean, I guess we can talk about clay. And the the interesting thing is that, I don't know if they're having trouble getting permits or what, but the the three mitigation technologies that have been, just recently released and permitted, are not clay. They're more oxidizers, time release oxidizers, things like that. But but I think that the one that I'm most familiar with is the clay. I was kind of adjacently related to that that project over at Mote, and, they were working with Woods Hole. And, this Clay what?
Tom Rowland: Work with Mote?
Dr. Tracy Fanara: Oh, yeah. I was a program manager for environmental health at Mote Marine Laboratory before I went over to NOAA.
Tom Rowland: We've done a few things with Mote as well. And then
Dr. Tracy Fanara: That's awesome.
Tom Rowland: In different, little stations in the Keys. Anyway sorry. So tell me more about the clay.
Dr. Tracy Fanara: Yeah. So so, basically, this the clay is optimized, and and, really, it's about the application. So you spray this clay, and, basically, what it does is act as a flocculant. So it attaches both the cell and the toxin to the outside of the clay, it all, like, kinda binds together and then it and then it drops with weight. So it in a wastewater treatment plant, this is basically the same kind of, same kind of process that happens in in one of the stages at a wastewater treatment plant where you where you flock things together, it coagulates, and then it drops to the bottom to basically remove it from the water column. Mhmm. So that's basically the thought here. The concern was that okay. So does the toxin get released over time? Does it do the cells get released over time? Like, how binding is this? How long does that last? And I don't have those answers right here, and now. But but there are definitely answers that I can get for you. The three technologies that have been recently released, I'm most familiar with one called Clear. My, best friend's mom actually is the lead scientist on that, doctor Dana Wedzel. And that is a time release up to like an optimized time release, oxidizer that has been proven to, biodegrade pretty naturally and not have any long lasting impacts. Because, really, that's the thing. You don't wanna add something to the actual environment that's gonna cause more problems down the line. We've seen that happen a million times.
Tom Rowland: My next question, because we have seen it happen a lot of times. You think you fix something and you actually do maybe fix that one thing, but you create a whole other problem that you didn't expect. I mean,
Dr. Tracy Fanara: look at Thomas Miggly and Freon.
Tom Rowland: Okay. Tell me about that.
Dr. Tracy Fanara: Oh, yeah. So this guy people were dying. You know? There are food issues. They couldn't keep food cold. This guy invented Freon. He was like, it's so safe. Look at me drink it. He he drank it in front of a whole bunch of scientists. He ended up dying from an unfortunate polio accident, shockingly. But, so that went on the market. CFCs were all over the place, and we ended up with a huge ozone health, which now with the with the efforts globally, we are on our way to closing it. But but it's amazing, like, how one thing can have this domino effect of adverse reactions that you didn't even see coming.
Tom Rowland: Yeah. I mean, sinking sinking the the the red tide to the bottom. I mean, I don't know. What if it just goes down there and gets super strong? And I don't know. I don't know what that would do. Could it?
Dr. Tracy Fanara: I mean, no. I I don't think that that's a problem. The the bigger problem oh, I'm sorry. What?
Tom Rowland: I said you have a lot of scientists that are a lot smarter than me, working on this, but I just you know, it's like, okay. Well, you put that you just spray it on the water, and then it just drops to the bottom and just is out of sight, out of mind for a little bit. But is it really solving the problem?
Dr. Tracy Fanara: Well, I think that that yeah. I think that that's what they're trying to find out, and and it solves the problem probably for long enough that that the bloom would dissipate. But the real question is, how much clay do you need, and how do you apply it? Like, blooms are spread out. They're patchy. You know, how do you make sure and that's the same thing with all of these different technologies. You know, the cornea brevis has two tails, can exist anywhere in the water column. How do you know that when you're applying something, you're not applying to an area that doesn't need it? How do you know that you're getting the the the actual, bloom? And then the the question is the benthic organisms. Like, how much clay is going to be down there, and is it impacting the benthos? And a lot of recent studies are saying no, but that was the concern for for quite a while.
Tom Rowland: And how what about these other methods? How do they, apply those?
Dr. Tracy Fanara: They're gonna have to I think that one I'm I'm trying to remember exactly because I didn't work on these projects. I think that they were looking at ROVs for deployment. What I would do is is make sure that there's some kind of AI to to detect where these where these, high concentrations of blooms are. I mean, if we can do it with a cell phone microscope, we could probably do it, you know, with an ROV and, basically, some kind of application deployment. So so that's the one that I that I know about or read about with CLEAR. It's, it's gonna be interesting to see what happens.
Tom Rowland: Yeah. Well, I don't know. I mean, it seems to be I mean, in your opinion, are we having red tide, events more frequently than we have in the past, or is this to be expected?
Dr. Tracy Fanara: You know, I don't think that it's hard to say more frequently. I mean, we've pretty much gotten one every year. It's not about the frequency. Right? It's about the duration and intensity.
Tom Rowland: Right.
Dr. Tracy Fanara: That's what that's what really is the question if we're you know, if that's getting worse. And it's kinda like it's interesting. It's kinda like wildfires. Right? When wildfires have to happen, just like perhaps Florida red tide does to reset the ecosystem like we talked about before. But when they got out of control, that's when people step in with wildfires. And these mitigation tools, maybe that's what, you know, stepping in, you know, at least we have a toolbox. So we don't have another 2018 where we lost, like, $2,700,000,000 or something ridiculous like that.
Tom Rowland: And explain, you know, why we would lose that. Obviously, if the beaches are full of dead fish, nobody wants to go out there. But what are the other economic, you know, factors that maybe I'm not thinking about that would cause that much loss?
Dr. Tracy Fanara: Yeah. So, I mean, it's not just a few dead fish. Right? It was a ton a ton of dead fish. The toxic aerosols were traveling. People were getting sick. The beaches were just gross, and then national media attention to the Southwest part of Florida was bringing to everybody's attention that there was this terrible thing and you shouldn't go to Florida. So the rest of Florida was losing tourism. There were, bait shop owners. I mean, I that's where my death threats mostly came from was bait shop bait shops.
Tom Rowland: Death threats?
Dr. Tracy Fanara: Oh, yeah. Like, it was yeah. So people people always want something to blame. Right? Because if they find something to blame, they could fix it. So back then, you know, they were pointing the the their finger at Big Sugar, and then they pointed their finger at at Mosaic. And then they saw that Mote Marine Laboratory, like, they received, like, $2,500 for a turtle run from Mosaic once. And the thing is, like, it has nothing to do. We work completely independently in our research programs. So people saw that and they were like, oh, follow the money. It must be that Mote's lying about red tide and they know, you know, like, it was the craziest thing because us at Mote, we we're nonprofit scientists. We are not making good money. You know, we're doing it to protect people and to do the right thing. You know? Like, it was just the the craziest thing, and I was I was the one, you know, as Jim Cantore said, the face of red tide, at the time. So I was the one that was accessible. So then the fingers pointed to the scientists. And so, like, I got you know, there's a there's a special place in hell for you. You know, like, I'm gonna find you. I know where you live. Like, it was really scary. People on private Facebook pages were literally making up stories, and it didn't help that I was on a show called Mythbusters because then people thought I was a paid actress.
Tom Rowland: Right.
Dr. Tracy Fanara: So it was it was a disaster. It was it was definitely the hardest point in my life, probably.
Tom Rowland: And how is that how is that changed from then to now?
Dr. Tracy Fanara: I I'm telling you if if we had another bloom that was just as economically and, you know, quality of life devastating, I can't say that I don't think that it would happen again. I do. I don't know where the fingers would be pointed, but I don't think that there's been enough change for it not to be pointed at mosaic and and sugar again.
Tom Rowland: Right.
Dr. Tracy Fanara: But hopefully people know enough to know
Tom Rowland: at this point that the scientists are really there to help them.
Dr. Tracy Fanara: And that the to help them. And that the reason why we don't have all the answers, which is sad. Right? Seventy years of research, and we didn't have all the answers. I can't tell you how this bloom's gonna dissipate. We you know, initiation too. We it's, we've been trying to answer questions on a microscopic species in a huge body of water that acts differently in a lab than it does in the natural environment, and we've been having to do that with very small grants. Six weeks. Every six weeks, we take a cruise in this one the same the same trajectory. You know? Like, how are we gonna get the life cycle and answer these questions this way? It's just it really is that hard, which is why I took my job at NOAA to, to get ecosystem, modeling as part of the unified forecast system, which is an earth systems model so that we can understand all the connectivity.
Tom Rowland: So is that just, purely, computer model, or is that, a simulated physical model?
Dr. Tracy Fanara: Good question. This is a computer model, numeric modeling. So, basically, this numeric model started with weather, the unified forecast system. So, like, the the global forecast and the GFS, you've probably heard of that during hurricane season. That's part of the UFS. The portfolio manager for the ocean and coastal models. So that's everything from the bottom of the ocean to storm surge. So that was my portfolio, including algae blooms, oil spills, erosion, things like that. So I my goal was to get not only all of those NOS offices to work together so that we can have the physics with the ecology, but also connect them to the Earth system so we had the weather as well. Wow. And so that's yeah. So that's why I went to to Noah to actually help Florida red tide.
Tom Rowland: So how do you think that model has improved over the years? And maybe with AI, I'm sure that AI is is a part of that and supercomputers and and more power and more computing power. Have you seen that model improve? And and as we're seeing with weather forecasting I mean, I see the weather forecasting improve. I mean, obviously, everybody wants to blame the weatherman for, you know, when on Saturday when the wind starts blowing on your day day to go fishing. But, I really think that and to have it on your phone, like, everybody can see, like, so much further in the future for the weather any way they want to. Like, I have an app change you can change the modeling system. You can see the European model or GFS or any of these other ones, and some of them seem to be much more accurate for a certain area than others. And certainly, have been more accurate for for certain hurricane, paths than others. And I just wonder how how you as a as a scientist and somebody that's right in it, how do you see, like, not just the weather forecasting and the red tide forecasting, but how do you see it all working together because everything's connected as you say? Are we getting exponentially better? Is it about
Dr. Tracy Fanara: the same?
Tom Rowland: Do you think
Dr. Tracy Fanara: I would say we're getting exponentially better. I mean and that that was kind of the problem this year. Right? Hurricane Helene came, and our models were right. You know what I mean? Like, our our surge models were right. And even my my portfolio, those surge models for Milton were right too. They actually did predict that the the surge would be further south in Tampa. And that's the thing. People were like well, one problem is that people don't know what eight feet of water is to them. They don't know what that means for their house. They don't they don't know and and it's not just I mean, if they're living on the the coastline, yeah, you need to know what eight feet means for your house. But if you're living inland, you need to know how your entire watershed works with compounding flooding and with with the the, water level on the coastline at, you know, a higher stage than it ever is and that fresh water coming in. You know? But but our surge models were spot on, and people did not prepare. How would
Tom Rowland: like you say, they need to know how their entire watershed works, but you're talking about, like, a hundred year flood. Like, how would someone know? Is there a way that you could know how like, what that amount of water would do? If if you've never seen it in your entire lifetime, how would you know?
Dr. Tracy Fanara: You're exactly right. How would you know? That's what we have to get we have to get better with our visualization tools so that people can have better information and prepare better for storms. Like, we we have this national water model that is undergoing a huge change, moving over to something called next gen national water model. And then we have these these weather models and coastal models that are constantly improving. But we we really need to put some effort into, into our visualization tools. And I and I worry right now about that. But I'm really hoping that that's still somehow we have our eye on that ball. Because if we're gonna get better if we're doing this to protect the public, you have to go all the way. You can't stop. You can't stop it. I give you the data. You have to go all the way, and and that's where that communication, that social science really comes
Tom Rowland: in. Interesting. Okay. So, what what as far as, like, red tide goes and what we've discussed, and I'm sure that there are some ways that that we could, in in your opinion, that the public, anglers, outdoorsmen, people that care about the environment, I'm sure that there are things that we might be able to do if we unified together and and did them. What would you say those would be? If you could say, you know, a couple of different things that we could we could do that would make a difference.
Dr. Tracy Fanara: Well, at your own home, I mean, not fertilizing and watering during the rainy season is is something that everybody can do. You can also disconnect your impervious surface, meaning that, instead of having water go from your roof down your gutter into your into a storm sewer on your the bottom of your driveway, you can have that water go into a rain garden or infiltration trench. But, really, as anglers, the most important thing is data. We are always at need for more data. The beach conditions reporting system, the the probably a year before I left Mote, I developed this app that anybody from anywhere in the world can report environmental conditions. And, hopefully, I'll be expanding on that, in the very new near future because anglers, captains, people on boats, they're the ones that see the things first.
Tom Rowland: Right.
Dr. Tracy Fanara: You know, for example, like, the spinning fish issue that happens or, the dolphin necropsies or the dolphin fatalities rather that happened in the Northern Gulf a bunch of years ago or the the manatee, fatalities. Like, it's people outside that are noticing those things first. They notice the changes first.
Tom Rowland: Right. That's all fishing guides. Bird I mean, I would imagine that fish I don't know. Birdwatching guides too. But fishing guides are in tune with everything. You're catching the bait. You're trying to catch the fish. You're watching the birds. You're watching everything. You're looking at the at the color of the water. You're looking at the height of the tide. You're looking at every single thing affects your ultimate goal of trying to catch this particular fish that you're after for that day. And a lot of fishing guides work three hundred or more days a year, and they are going to be I I don't know that anybody who else is out there more? Right?
Dr. Tracy Fanara: You're exactly right.
Tom Rowland: Maybe maybe a bird watching guide that is super busy. Maybe.
Dr. Tracy Fanara: Right.
Tom Rowland: But even then, they're they're they're not They're focused on maybe one thing. I don't know. I wouldn't take away from bird watching guide. A bird watching guide is that's out there three hundred plus days a year. Anyone that's out there three hundred plus days a year are going to be very in tune with with what's going on. A spearfishing guide, a scuba instructor, any anyone like that is gonna notice things that are completely unnoticed from somebody that spends half that amount of time on the water. Can I
Dr. Tracy Fanara: give you a really weird, metaphor?
Tom Rowland: Yeah.
Dr. Tracy Fanara: So so my dog okay. I have a dog. I love this dog more than anything.
Tom Rowland: What kind of dog is it?
Dr. Tracy Fanara: She's what?
Tom Rowland: What kind of dog?
Dr. Tracy Fanara: She's a Staffordshire terrier. I'm looking at her right now. And she's 15. She well, she'll be 15 in, like, two weeks. But yesterday, for example, I just looked at her face, and I was like, oh my gosh. She's about to throw up. Picked her up, got her outside. If she's lethargic one day, just little the the littlest thing the littlest thing I notice, and I know that something's wrong, I know that something's going on. I bring her to a vet. The vet looks at her. She's fine. And that's the difference between an angler, anybody that's on the water every day compared to a scientist.
Tom Rowland: Mhmm.
Dr. Tracy Fanara: The scientist is important, but without the anecdotal information, we don't you know, we're going in there blind.
Tom Rowland: That's that's exactly right. So when we go back to this app that you that you and you were saying that guides and and, people that are on the boat all the time are super important to it. So it was a beach conditions app? What it was?
Dr. Tracy Fanara: It's at it's at a Mote Marine Laboratory. It's called the beach conditions reporting system. And right before I left, I was going to work with Captains for Clean Water to to get, you know, some of that data automatically. And I know that some places are doing it, and some people are doing that because that's even critical information. I mean, do you know, like, bathymetry is constantly changing, and we can never keep up with it. I mean, just knowing that, like, just having that alone would be helpful for our models. But but water
Tom Rowland: The salinity. You're saying salinity? What what did you say that one?
Dr. Tracy Fanara: Oh, I said the bathymetry. So the
Tom Rowland: Yeah. You're gonna have to that is to me and everyone else.
Dr. Tracy Fanara: So sorry. So bathymetry is basically this topography of the the
Tom Rowland: ocean bottom. Bathymetric chart. Right? So Yeah.
Dr. Tracy Fanara: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know? Yeah. You got it. Yeah. Just the the elevation of the bottom of the water. That stuff's really important. That tells us, you know, that that tells us a lot about currents and and potential surge and waves and and all the things. But but outside of that, you know, like, when fish are acting weird, when there's there's water discoloration. I was on this show called, When Sharks Attack, and they would give me, you know, an anomaly area where sharks shark bites happened. So, like, the Space Coast in 2003, for example. And then I would look through all of the information, and it was crazy because the anecdotal information is what gave me, like, beats. Do you wanna hear this story? Yeah. Or are we gonna go down I don't wanna go too far down a rabbit hole, but it does have to do with algae blooms. So this year, there were a number of, launches that happened from Kennedy. Okay? There were a number, you know, like, three bytes within a very short period of time, and someone said that they saw an orange slick. So you look at all the chemicals that can appear orange over there, possible. And, yeah, it could have been something from from the launch, but the location didn't really work out. And and then, like, I keep on looking, and eventually, I run into, and this is gonna sound crazy, but reports of food poisoning in New York City. And it was because people were eating pufferfish from the Indian River Lagoon
Tom Rowland: k.
Dr. Tracy Fanara: That were that had a toxin from an algae bloom that would have casted this orange haze. Right. So that's how, you know, this all this anecdotal stuff adds up to these real theories. So was it was it that there was this toxin from this algae bloom that was messing with the, basically, the navigation system of a shark, or was it that this thing was so thick that they just couldn't see and they were, you know, biting things because they thought it was food?
Tom Rowland: But people would be swimming in this orange slick?
Dr. Tracy Fanara: Yeah. Apparently, they just they were like, oh, maybe it's sediment or clay.
Tom Rowland: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, depending on how what kind of orange it looked like. Like Right. Orange kinda like seaweed orange or orange,
Dr. Tracy Fanara: like,
Tom Rowland: a natural crazy nuclear waste orange.
Dr. Tracy Fanara: Right. And it looked like a crazy nuclear waste orange, to be honest, but it it was probably this algae bloom just taken with a camera and enhanced.
Tom Rowland: And so that could from somehow, that algae bloom affected the sharks in a way that they bit three people.
Dr. Tracy Fanara: Could've. More likely, it was because they had a surfing competition during the black kit migration. But all of that stuff together
Tom Rowland: that every year, though. And and most times, nobody gets bit. Right?
Dr. Tracy Fanara: Right. Right.
Tom Rowland: Interesting. I know. I mean, the some of those black tip migrations when you look at it from a drone, now that we have drones, there are thousands of sharks out there. Thousands.
Dr. Tracy Fanara: Oh, yeah.
Tom Rowland: And and people are swimming all around them, and they're walking all around them. And and they're just the sharks are going just like you would see, you know, in a in a a a school of of bait and you see a shark swim through. It's like when somebody's walking, the sharks are just all around them from from a drone. And these are all things that we didn't see before we had drones or maybe you could see from a from a high rise apartment building. You'll see some some videos of that, but it's just like there are so many of those sharks everywhere. And most of the times, they're not biting anyone.
Dr. Tracy Fanara: Right.
Tom Rowland: But, like, occasionally, they do. And so that's, you you when you when you kind of trace it back to this orange, slick So then now what? What do you do with that data? Like, just kind of explain the shark bites maybe?
Dr. Tracy Fanara: Yeah. Yeah. So then you can know what to look for next time. You know? Like, but but the only it was kind of a tangent. But but the the reason why I wanted to share is just because that all that anecdotal information went to, you know, went to to finding this out. Another one was, you know, like, oh, here was a better one. There's anomaly shark bites in Southeast Florida, and and it ended up being because of and I looked at the model data and the productivity data from NOAA. Turned out that hurricane Irma caused an upwelling event that caused a huge spike in productivity, bringing bait fish and sharks to an area that normally it's not. And that was verified by anglers who said that the fishing in 2017 was never better
Tom Rowland: in
Dr. Tracy Fanara: that area.
Tom Rowland: Right. Yeah. I think well, that's good. That's something that's a that's a benefit to something like that. What do you think of, like, when we're talking about this? There are always going to be you know, a lot of the fishing guides that are out there the most are also the tightest lipped. Like, they don't wanna they don't wanna tell anybody anything because they know they know that they know something that everybody else doesn't because they're out there all the time. So there are there's some resistance to, releasing certain data to scientists, I think. Right. Past, situations, maybe maybe some data was released, and then now you can't fish there anymore. Or some data is released, and maybe, I don't know, the the area closes or is restricted in some way, shape, or form. So how do we get around?
Dr. Tracy Fanara: That's a great that's a great point. I think that we ask the right questions. Right? Like, we ask the helpful questions. That doesn't result in that kind of thing happening.
Tom Rowland: Right.
Dr. Tracy Fanara: I mean, did it did, did locations close for the for the soft fish mortality event?
Tom Rowland: No. Not that I'm aware of. But when you know? But before that, you know, you're asked to report sawfish. I know some people that would never report one because they think, well, we just won't be able to go there anymore. Right? And and but but then you have an event where the sawfish are doing something really weird. I don't think I don't think that the resistance was there at all. I think that most people are reporting those things that are happening that are I mean, those sawfish were acting very, very strange. And Right. Around that spirit period of time, that's when the fish spinning was going on too. What do you know about those two things? Because it seems like it's not happening as much.
Dr. Tracy Fanara: Right. So there was no, like, there was no smoking gun. There was no, like, this is definitely what it is, but it was most likely due to my friend Michael Parsons, who is the gamblerdiscus or I think that the gambi for short is this, is this benthic, phytoplankton species that is usually in very low concentrations, usually doesn't produce a toxin. But we know with other species in certain conditions, certain environments, nontoxin producing species can produce toxin. And I shouldn't say it's nontoxic producing for the species, but but that area. Because we know that certain species of, you know, algae, like ling lingbia, for example, produce toxins in other places, but not not so much in Florida. So so this was never thought to be a big deal, but this is what was interesting. I think it was FWC or someone was taking samples, and they're like, oh, it's a low concentration, like, a 100 cells per liter or something like that. And, I'm just making that number up. But, which would be low for red tide. But, apparently, it was, like, 10 to a 100 times higher than it normally is for this species. And it's very likely that that species was producing a toxin because when the sawfish stops spinning, when we start stop seeing impacts, was about the time of year where that species of, algae basically dissipates.
Tom Rowland: So is that a temperature? Or
Dr. Tracy Fanara: Yeah. A temperature. Yeah. Yeah. And it and most likely, I mean, my hypothesis is that the, the heat wave caused a lot of ecosystem change in that area that then led to this species being able to take advantage and proliferate probably because of the absence of another species.
Tom Rowland: The absence of another species. So, like, the heat could have killed something else that allows the to to proliferate more so than normal. It affects the bait fish all the way up to the sawfish.
Dr. Tracy Fanara: Everything is connected.
Tom Rowland: Things some things more than others. Like, some fish didn't seem to have that problem, and then others seem like like the sawfish is a really weird thing for giant fish like that to be acting so strange.
Dr. Tracy Fanara: Yeah. I mean and that's because this the species is a benthic species, and that's where the sawfish are.
Tom Rowland: Right. Right. So you also did a a a a funny named show, cocaine shark, which, I I I guess, like well, tell me about that. Like, the idea was that there are bales of cocaine floating out into the in in the ocean, I guess, and that
Dr. Tracy Fanara: Yep. That was basically it.
Tom Rowland: Are that there are sharks that have been tested to have some sort of level of cocaine in their in their bloodstream. I don't know. Why don't you just
Dr. Tracy Fanara: Yeah. At this point so I was I was approached with with the idea of cocaine sharks, and I loved it because it was a really catchy name. And I figured, you know, it would shed light on a real and growing problem of chemicals in our ecosystem that are impacting everything. And we we have seen studies of, you know, methamphetamines and other recreational and pharmaceutical drugs, impacting different fish organisms, shrimp, and other parts of the world. But such a study has never been done in The Keys, but we know that there is a lot of cocaine bowels washing up. And especially the year that that we filmed the show, there were a lot washing up in The Keys. So it was a really good idea to do this. And, like, what I wanted to know is the first question that people ask me is do these do these bowels actually break open? Because they're usually packed pretty tight. Okay. So I did an experiment with that, actually, independently after the show. We looked at on the show, we dropped cocaine ballots to see if the sharks would be alerted. You know, there's a noise. Will the show will the shark go over? And, you know, if you've ever, tiger shark. If you ever have an experience with tiger sharks, you know that they eat pretty much everything. So, we did get some good shots of sharks, you know, eating chopping into those bales that were that were dropped. So so, yeah, there's a possibility that a shark would be acutely impacted, and we don't know what would happen, just like cocaine bear. You know, the bear actually died. But but you figure, if that was a real thing, it's way more likely that a shark would come in contact with the cocaine bale than a than a bear.
Tom Rowland: Right. Right. I mean, certainly. And and certainly back in the seventies and eighties, when there were probably even more bales, washing up, but bales of all kinds of stuff.
Dr. Tracy Fanara: Yep.
Tom Rowland: But I guess the idea also and what's interesting to to me about that we did this we did this bonefish, study with, Nick Castillo. Do you know?
Dr. Tracy Fanara: Yeah.
Tom Rowland: He came on the boat with us and did and we caught bonefish, and then we took their blood samples, and and we, you know, got got samples to see if there were any pharmaceutical drugs in the bonefish. And he sees he was thinking that, you know, bonefish was a really good, species to study for this because they would go in very shallow water. They get very close to the shorelines. Around, there could be kind of a canary in the coal mine, I guess. And so bonefish were kind of the target species. I'm sure there's plenty of other species that we could've we could've caught, but we did catch those, and it was a very interesting, show. And the the idea that there could be cocaine, in a in a shark, is a is kind of an another thing for a larger, more common thing is that we could have pharmaceutical drugs in the fish. And if the pharmaceutical drugs are in the fish, what is that actually telling us? And so what Nick was saying was that, you know, there could be a leak in the water treatment area, and we're getting some of these drugs into the water. That's how the fish are are coming in contact with them. I don't know what your if if we're seeing pharmaceutical drugs or other chemicals, like you mentioned, other chemicals in fish. What other chemicals are you looking for, and what kind of fish are you looking for to have them?
Dr. Tracy Fanara: I mean so there's so many different there's so many different ways that that these fish might be impacted by chemicals, especially pharmaceuticals, birth control, things like that. Because because, like I was saying earlier, much earlier, wastewater treatment plants only treat those first two. So even if it's not a wastewater overflow or with or spill or a pipe break, that clean water won't be testing for those it's it's expensive to test for all these chemicals. They're not testing for them, and neither nor is the the wastewater treatment plant actually designed to treat those chemicals. So the water that we are putting back into our natural systems could have these chem not not could have have these chemicals
Tom Rowland: Wow.
Dr. Tracy Fanara: That could accumulate in certain species of fish depending on how their body works.
Tom Rowland: What about us? Like, when if that's if that's just going through the the the the treatment plant, like you say, and then just getting recycled back into drinking water Yeah. It's not tested. So how would we get like, if you wanted to be careful about that? I mean, there's, like, a Berkey water filter. Is that gonna get rid of pharmaceuticals? I mean, that's, like, the one that I have. I think it's a really good one, but I don't know. Yeah. Getting exposed.
Dr. Tracy Fanara: Well, here's the thing. Like, what I was talking about before was the wastewater treatment plant. Now for us, we drink water from a water treatment plant. And depending on what kind of treatment that tertiary treatment is, I mean, it could remove a lot of those those chemicals depending on what what treatment it is. I always use a Brita filter no matter what because it gets rid of some of those ions. But, I mean, our old systems can get rid of everything, but the water tastes terrible, so then you have to mix it afterwards. The best thing that we can do is really focus on water treatment. You know, people ask me all the time, if I can do one thing to change the world, what would it be? And it would be enhance our capability of treating water. Because I really think that that is going to be our our our critical point, like, our our limiting factor moving forward. It's gonna be really important that we have clean, safe, drinking water because we are not evolving as fast as the water is changing Mhmm. And as fast as we're coming up with new chemicals.
Tom Rowland: Do you see that from, coming from, like, desal plants, and and using ocean water? Or or would you see the if you were to look into the future, is it all freshwater that is being treated, you know, better? I don't know. Like, it seems like we run out of freshwater maybe. And
Dr. Tracy Fanara: Yeah. Yeah. We're gonna have to go to desal. Right? Because with growing populations and limited freshwater, but trying to find a low energy, low cost way to do it has been the problem. Like, Tampa Bay water has, you know, kinda shown. But but treating water, both of those too, like, really need to be a focus. Yeah. Because we are we are so dependent. We're like you know, if you had a Jenga set, we're at the top. We're like those top blocks, and we're in, like, in the sixth mass extinction, and most of those things being extinct are like bacteria. We're not actually feeling it yet. But as things start being impacted, changed, moved, you know, like, us at the top, we might not be moving, we might not be swaying, but our stability or our the the structural integrity is definitely weakening.
Tom Rowland: Mhmm.
Dr. Tracy Fanara: And so it's really important that we fill those holes and maintain our structure before it's too late. Because, again, this will be another one of those expensive things to fix.
Tom Rowland: What are ways that we could do that? Like, especially if we if we were to, you know, do something together or people were to take a take actions that could fill those holes exactly like you like you just described. What what would be a few actions that we could all take?
Dr. Tracy Fanara: I mean, first of all, conserving water is always a good thing. So that that
Tom Rowland: is where there's tons of water. Like like I mean, Florida does have a lot of water.
Dr. Tracy Fanara: We do have a lot of water.
Tom Rowland: But but conserve water. So what when you when you say conserving water Yeah. Like, what actions conserve water in your in your opinion?
Dr. Tracy Fanara: Yeah. I mean, just because we you know, water is all around us doesn't mean that it's all drinkable.
Tom Rowland: Right.
Dr. Tracy Fanara: You know, we are we're primarily dependent on on groundwater in the state. There's some surface water as well. But the more population that we have, the more that we use. You know, we're we're setting ourselves up for for sinkholes and water quality changes, things like that. So conserving water is definitely, a a a thing you can do. You know, again, not adding chemicals when you don't have to, and it sucks because I hate mosquitoes so much. You know? I really do. I hate them so much, and, like, reef safe sunscreens, things like that. But, also, you know, just contributing to citizen science and having a voice for for the priority of water quality. I think that that that can go really far because that that's where the votes come in, where the politicians start listening. That's where the money starts changing and really going towards those priorities that that will help us live a better quality of life, and save money in the long run. So I think that that just having that voice and coming together, like, happens for clean water has done so well. Right? And these water keepers have done really well, these conservation groups. And then, like, these fishing groups too.
Tom Rowland: Mhmm. I think Captains for Water, in my opinion, why they've done so well is that they identified rather than just being angry and and and being mad at at whoever or pointing the blame somewhere. Maybe they maybe that's part of it, but there are definite solutions that have been identified. And the solutions, you know, for the most part, if public attention is brought to the fact that these solutions already exist, that we can actually make a big difference. And that's where, you know, uniting together and having a a voice that's much larger than if we're fractured into all these small groups, And what we all really want as far as all being anglers and fishermen and boaters, we want clean water. We want water that we can recreate in, whether that's fishing or diving or boating or just simply walking on the beach and, and and having a nice clean beach without dead fish everywhere. And so pointing to the solution, I think, has been has been what has really propelled them to being as successful as they can. Where other other groups, I I get it. You're mad. I get it. Like, we're all mad, but I don't know that that was the most productive. Although, it did bring Yeah. There there it got people's attention, you know, when people were so angry that that they are I mean, it definitely gets people's attention. But, I I I do like the solution based thing, which kinda brings me to kinda the close here of of you know, you mentioned a few different things that we can do. But where do you see like, are you like, with as much as you know about all of the underlying things and this whole Jenga Tower that you described, are you pessimistic or optimistic about the future of, let's just say, Florida, but then then expand that to the Southeast of of The United States because it's all connected. The whole world's connected. But what do you think about being pessimistic or optimistic about the next ten years in Florida?
Dr. Tracy Fanara: It's hard to be pessimistic when it comes to Florida. I'm very optimistic because this is the one place where it doesn't matter where you politically stand, like, what culture, background, just like you were just saying, everybody is on the same page when it comes to clean water. And that's why that's why I'm hopeful. That's why, you know, I'm still in Florida right now because this is where the hope is. Because everybody can come together for the same common goal of a better environment because we're all impacted by it. You know? And we all have our own little parts of Florida with our own problems. Like, I gave a talk about red tide in Gainesville. No one knew what red tide was. But they have other problems. You know, Nestle is taking all the water, and they have major springs water quality changes. So, I mean, I shouldn't say taking all the water, but they you know what I mean? Like, there's an issue there where people are pretty mad that they're getting water for free and then selling it right back to us. And and they've seen those changes in the springs in the water quality. You know, down in, you know, Biscayne Bay, they have their issues with water quality. Miami with sea level rise. You know? Over here, we have photorets, cyanobacteria, everywhere has cyanobacteria, and and, of course, the wastewater overflows. So, like, it's all one water, and we're all on one team when it comes to water quality.
Tom Rowland: It seems like with so much with knowing so much and studying all these it would be easy to be pessimistic, but you managed to not be that way.
Dr. Tracy Fanara: It is easy to be pessimistic when we're looking at, you know, just data, but but I have hope for humanity. All the things that data doesn't show, the potential, the hope, the the the momentum we have moving forward. And the thing is, like, I really think Florida can lead the rest of the country in environmental stewardship.
Tom Rowland: Well, we have a great opportunity with, with the Everglades restoration project, and, it's the largest largest project like that known to man. So we can do a good job there. I would see I wouldn't see any other way other than lead, and and that example that the rest of the world can look at and see that, you know, mistakes are made. Like, you definitely make mistakes. Like, building dams and dikes and and roads and all that through the Everglades and trying to literally trying to drain it, that was a mistake. We can see clearly today that that's not the way that we should have done it. But if we can show that that can be, repaired even even small small pieces at a time, I think that there's hope for lots of other places that have been wrecked even worse than Right. Than the Everglades. But interesting. So, how do people, follow you've been on TV a whole bunch. You've done do you have any new, projects that you're working on right now?
Dr. Tracy Fanara: I hope so. I hope so. We'll see we'll see soon, but, I'm hoping to return the storm chasing soon, but but no details at this moment. And, hopefully, where to Earth will get picked back up on the weather channel. But until then, at inspector planet on everything, but mostly Instagram for now. I'm being told I have to do TikTok. I really don't want to.
Tom Rowland: Well, it's very popular.
Dr. Tracy Fanara: Here. Here.
Tom Rowland: Very pop I'm not on it. Personally, we have an account there, but I don't do anything with it. I just haven't really I don't know. I haven't gotten into TikTok, but we do have an account there.
Dr. Tracy Fanara: What's your favorite fish?
Tom Rowland: My favorite fish is a permit.
Dr. Tracy Fanara: I love permit. They're so cute.
Tom Rowland: I know. They're are so really hard to catch sometimes. Yeah. But that's probably my favorite. You know, when I when I first, started guiding in Key West, that was considered to be, the hardest fish to catch by far. And so I figured, well, I'll just start with that one. And when I don't catch anything, it won't even raise an eyebrow. And, you know, because if you were to go after easy fish and you don't catch anything, people are like, what kind of loser?
Dr. Tracy Fanara: Suck. Yeah.
Tom Rowland: So, yeah, it was a no it was a no lose situation of going after those and, you know, I would see some and and then, actually, I started to catch them. And, then then it just became my favorite. I I do love the permit though. It's my it's my favorite. Insure and even offshore. But, I mean, I like them all. And but that that one edges out the rest of them just just slightly.
Dr. Tracy Fanara: That's awesome. So it depends where I am, but, like, I really like the flats near Flamingo and redfish hunting, like, on foot.
Tom Rowland: Yeah. On foot.
Dr. Tracy Fanara: Yeah. On foot with a fly rod.
Tom Rowland: Yeah. Okay. That's that can be interesting on foot in the in the, in the Everglades or around Flamingo because some of that stuff is really soft. I know. You find that out very quickly.
Dr. Tracy Fanara: Yeah.
Tom Rowland: You think to your armpits.
Dr. Tracy Fanara: You have to be really, really careful with tides too.
Tom Rowland: Yeah. Yeah. For sure. But that that is really some of the best, red fishing anywhere is to, fish right out of Flamingo. We fish there all the time, and and it's gotten so much better. And we've seen, you know, the red fishing be not so good, be really good, be fantastic, and then even some some changes now. But it's pretty good right now.
Dr. Tracy Fanara: That's awesome.
Tom Rowland: Do you like fly fishing? Do you do you ever, fly fish for a permit?
Dr. Tracy Fanara: I haven't yet, but hopefully hopefully. I'm not very good at it yet. I gotta admit. Like, I'm not, like, some pro fly fisher.
Tom Rowland: Well, the redfish perfect target for learning how to to fly fish for Yes. For any as they sit there very still, and you can make 20 casts at them. The permit, they don't sit there very still, and you move your rod once and they take off. So not not not good for confidence. Very bad for con Redfish is very good for confidence. So stay with that for just a little while till you get the confidence up. Then maybe go
Dr. Tracy Fanara: Maybe someday I'll graduate to permit.
Tom Rowland: Yep. And then permit. And tarpon too, but they're all good. But thank you so much for coming on and and, and helping us out with understanding some of these things because, like, with the red tide thing, with the temperature and the different, you know, water exacerbating this red tide, it was a little confusing. And I hope that, that it it definitely cleared it up for me a little bit, And I learned a lot about it, so I hope it did that for the same audience. And if you are, wanting more, Inspector Planet everywhere. Right? You have YouTube too?
Dr. Tracy Fanara: Yeah. I I I have to start using it though next week.
Tom Rowland: Okay. Next week, mostly. Mostly Instagram. Alright. Well, I'd love to have you back on to, to talk about hopefully, we won't be talking about some big red tide event. Maybe we'll be talking about why it disappeared. That would be awkward, but I'd love to have you back.
Dr. Tracy Fanara: I would love to be back. Thank you so much.
Tom Rowland: Alright. Thank you. Alright. That's it for today, and we'll be back with another awesome guest just like doctor Tracy next week. See you.
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