George Poveromo: 45 Years in Saltwater Fishing TV and the Seminar That Tied In Alice Cooper

Tom Rowland Podcast — Episode 1005: George Poveromo

In this episode: the Mako trip that launched a 45-year career, Mark Sosin's advice to never take the editor's chair, 39 years of the seminar series, the shark explosion in South Florida, and what AI and FishCast bring next — in the exact words spoken.

00:00 · Cold Open

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George Poveromo: I'm George Poveromo, and this is the Tom Rowland podcast.

Tom Rowland: George, how are you, man?

George Poveromo: I've been fine. No complaints. Everything's good. And, you know, working super hard as always. You know, if there's any complaint, but that's not really a complaint. And overall, it's a good thing, and, you know, we're doing what we love to do. So, you never really tire of it, really, as as you well know.

02:33 · Forty-Five Years In: When the Career Started

Tom Rowland: Right. Right. I wanted to talk to you about that. You've been your career has you've had an incredible career. When did you start?

George Poveromo: Oh, well, I mean, as far as the career in into this industry, I mean, the fishing bug was way, way, way before that, obviously, but my career really begin I'm gonna have to turn the hands of time back to, I'm gonna say, around 1980 nineteen eighty eighty one, that, South Florida, and you probably would remember this, had the Met Fishing Tournament. Yes. Remember the big Metropolitan of Miami Fishing Tournament, which was huge? I was brought on board as an assistant director to the Miami Met tournament. And during that time frame, Dan Kitnis had started the Greater Miami Billfish Tournament. So, he came to me and said, why did you come over? You know, Dan said, I ran this the first year. We need somebody that could really do a good job organizing it and do a job. We wanna grow this. And Dan said, I I really don't wanna be in that part. So he talked me into, leaving the MET after one year and becoming the Greater Miami Billfish at tournaments, executive director. So, really, as far as maybe as you could call it, paychecks go, that was my first, paycheck and, I guess, my very first, entry into, the fishing industry. And, then pretty much from there, I was running a Miami Goldfish tournament. And if you remind me, I got I have some really good inside details I could share with you about that tournament, but don't let me forget. So and then in 1983, Saltwater Sportsman had opened up a position. And I had met Barry Gibson, Rip Cunningham, Spider Andreessen, Mark Sosin, and and the gang on a Mako outdoor riders trip over to Walker's Cay in 1981 because I was asked through Mako to help fish some of these riders. I was not involved in riding men. And I had met Frank Sargent of Outdoor Life and a lot of the big names on this trip. So, what transpired, Frank Sargent had known that I did a lot of sail fishing at a Palm Beach in the wintertime, and he asked me to write a story. And I said, I don't even know if I could really write because that wasn't really my expertise nor do they I think it would be. So we said, if it's lousy, you know, we won't run it. If it's, cleanable, we'll polish it up and run an outdoor life. And my first story ever sold, believe it or not, was a selfish piece to outdoor life. And back then, you had Outdoor Life Field and Stream as a big pay in outdoor, magazines. And so as I like to say, I got a check for $300 for that story back then, and and I thought I was gonna retire on it. You know? I said, man, this is pretty good stuff. And then Barry Gibson called me and asked me to write a story for Saltwater shortly after. And then from there, position to open up in 1983. And then, I've been really in the Saltwater Sportsman capacity since 1983. So those were the beginnings of of my actual career into this industry.

05:39 · How Television Started: The Mark Sosin Connection

Tom Rowland: Wow. And then how did the television start?

George Poveromo: Well, the television started, really, it it was a snowball effect from everything else. I had come aboard with Saltwater Sportsman in 1983. And Mark Soth and I had became very good friends. He took a liking to me. And, really, he was an amazing you know, he was somebody I looked up to. So you have to understand in where you're at and my where I'm at, we're in one wave. You know, that starts coming in the sea. Now those big names, Mark Sosin, Lefty Cray, and the likes were always that big wave in front of us that we always aspire to be like. Those we read their articles. Those are the ones that we really learned for and and wanted or aspired to be like. And I was fortunate enough that Mark Sosin took a liking to me. And, we got along very, very well, and he saw me as a really young guy in the industry. Took a liking, and I had him coach me. He was very instrumental and tell me sort of not only really the shortcuts on how this industry work, but he told me in this industry who the good guys are. And I'm not gonna use exact word to use, but who are the not so good guys and who to avoid, who's gonna try to take advantage of. So I had this knowledge. I and I sort of aching it to, like, start getting ready to start DND 500. And then you have Mario Andretti coaching you on how to run d and d 500. That's how I felt coming into this industry with Mark Sosin as my mentor. So he and I had grown very, very close. And 1983 started with the magazine, and we just kept on going, going, and going. And the seminar series, was the actual idea of Mark Sosin and myself. And it was and that came out in 1988, and that was born out of embarrassment. And by embarrassment, I mean, Rip Cunningham used to, get us all, hey. The Fort Lauderdale Boat Show is coming up, and we you know, they asked us to sponsor the seminars at the Fort Lauderdale Boat Show. So, you know, he they he would get Mark Sosin and myself and a few other people that do these clinics. And they were so embarrassing because when the people are at a boat show, it's a different mindset than actually going to a seminar to learn. The boat show, they're interested in eating pretzels, drinking beer, looking at boats, and just moving. They're they're not used to being stationary. So they held these seminars at the food court, and I'd hit the food court. And all of a sudden, there'd be 10 people out there. And when they finished the hot dog, they get up and leave. And and Sosa said, this is so embarrassing. So he told rep, don't do these things anymore. Mark Sosa and I talked about coming out with a full blown seminar series tour, which started in 1988. So where I'm going with this, I know it's not the exact question he asked me, is about the TV show. So as times have progressed, I had, one of the top columns at Saltwater Sportsman. We had it still had the number one seminar tour going. Then my next natural progression would be a television series, And I wanted to go out and take that next step. And what used to irk me as I'd watch so many shows, and it's just about, hey, Fred. That's a nice fish you got. Oh, that's beautiful. It was almost mine rot, to be brutally honest. And I thought maybe something that would be entertaining, but more of an educational nature that we do in Saltwater Sportsman or that we do at the seminar series and combine that, then my saltwater, world of saltwater fishing was born, and, this is year '26 for that. So that's sort of like the long road around it took you to answer your your question.

Tom Rowland: For you, man. Twenty six years on TV. That's incredible. We just finished our twenty first year going into

George Poveromo: our twenty

Tom Rowland: second year, and it's it's, it's hard to keep a show on the air that long. It really is. You're you're you've been really good with that and and always deliver a lot of educationals, educational pieces in your show, which is something I've always noticed about that. One of the things that I thought was really interesting about what you just said was that there was one trip. There was that one Mako trip. Do you look back on that as, like, a real like, what if you hadn't have taken that trip? Do you think that things would be different?

George Poveromo: Or Yeah.

09:56 · The Mako Trip That Changed Everything

Tom Rowland: Can one trip, one trip, one meeting with a certain person, can that really change someone's career, someone's life?

George Poveromo: I'm gonna yeah. Oh, no doubt. And I'm gonna take you beyond that because it actually got a lot stranger before just that one Mako trip is how do we get to that one Mako trip? My father, you know, he's the one who got me into fishing. And he was, pretty good friends with Bob Hughes from the Bob Hughes Bone Fisher, you know, fame. And I had later become friends with Bob Hughes. He was another, like, mentor to me, that that he also took a liking to me. So my dad wanted to step up. We had a, you know, a bay boat. And as a youngster, when you're 16 years old and your dad tells you just keep this bay boat inside Biscayne Bay, don't sneak out. It's it's not a seaworthy boat. Of course, you don't listen. You know, you get those calm days. You're out there. And he figured, well, he was, you know, stepping up, rather than see me get killed offshore in a bay boat. So he said, we're gonna look at a 25 footer Aquasport. Bob Hughes was an Aquasport dealer. He's one of the big Aquasport dealers in the time. And it and I was reading Florida Sportsman magazine and Saltwater Sportsman magazine. I would see the ads, And I would see the ads for Mako, and I would see all the and Mako had just really serious fishing type ads that really grabbed my attention. And I said, let's look at the Makos. And he said, no. No. We're not gonna get but we could get a good deal with Bob Hughes. And then and it's another thing I always joke about. Here we are arguing with your dad who wants to buy a 25 footer. You're arguing with him which one to go with. Finally, I wore him down and look at a Mako, a Mako 23, which is a nineteen seventy seven, and he bought it. And then two years later, he bought a a nineteen seventy nine twenty five footer when they started coming out with the twenty fives, and I started fishing to Mako owner tournaments back then. And fished that for several years that did really well. And through those Mako tournaments, I met Bill Monroe, who's their marketing person for Mako and Randy events, and he saw that we did very well. So he had asked me in 1981, would you come over to Walkers Cay and help fish some of the riders, which I did. So going back, if my dad had bought an Aquasport instead of Mako, I wouldn't be talking to you now. So how crazy this whole thing could get and who you may meet or one left turn or one right turn might put you in a position you wanted to be in.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. Do you think that when you when you look back at, you know, since since that trip and do you do you have any other, kind of a trip or a meeting or something like that that was that was a super big deal, in in the in your career, or was that the biggest one?

George Poveromo: Well well, that was definitely the the major pivoting point because it was that Mako connection and the writer connection and meeting Barry Gibson and everybody there. Like I said, if if we didn't get the Mako, I I wouldn't be here. But the other humorous one, which, the late great Barry Gibson, the editor of Saltwater Sportsman, had always said, when a position opened up in Saltwater Sportsman, and they were based out of Boston. So he said, hey. We have a position opening up, and he said, would you be interested in this? If you are, we'll fly you up to Boston. We'll put you up, and we're gonna have a meeting and see if you'd be interested in coming to work with us. Us. And so I'm thinking, my gosh. You're going to Saltwater Sportsman magazine. This this was huge. So, of course, I accepted the meeting, and they got me a a ticket. And and they were at 280 Summer Street in Boston at the time, And they had put me up, I can't remember which one, but a real fancy hotel. So I was so nervous about this meeting in advance that I bought this three piece suit. Okay? I mean, it cost me $600 back then for the suit. I said, man, I I've gotta look good. So my father always said growing up in life that you can never really be too overdressed. Mhmm. Well, this is one time he was wrong. You know? We we I go to the meeting, and I go up, and there's a big door, Saltwater Sportsman. I open the door. I walk in with this three piece suit, and they're all looking at me. They have fishing shorts on, fishing T shirts and everything. And, so I said, wow. I said, my dad was wrong on this one. I certainly overdressed. So we sat down, had a good meeting, and they said, come on. We're gonna take you out to lunch. So we go walking down the streets of Boston. It it it was summer. It was so hot. Those guys were comfortable, and I was just melting there. So, that was the other pivotal point. Barry Gibson said after you left that meeting, he said, I looked around and said, he's our guy. We're gonna pick him up. And Spider said, how could you be so sure? He and Barry said, anybody that would come to Saltwater Sportsman in a suit like that is our guy. We need to we need to lock him in. And that's that was the other sort of humorous pivotal point of me really getting hooked up with Sawboarder Sportsman.

Tom Rowland: That so that one thing where you think you're overdressed actually turns out to be the the reason that they they thought you were the guy.

George Poveromo: They were. I guess they figured if this guy was so serious about him getting that dressed up to go to work with us, that he's gotta be responsible enough and serious enough that's gonna give everything he's got to the company. And, and that's how it was. So, you know, that $600 suit back in the day certainly worked.

15:12 · Mark Sosin's Advice: Never Take the Editor's Chair

Tom Rowland: Yeah. So did they make you move to Boston?

George Poveromo: No. No. No. No. I would not do that. That was another important tip that Mark Sosin gave me. He said, you do not want if it's ever offered, you and don't shoot for it. You never want an editor position at a magazine or a full time staff position that you always wanna be an independent contractor. And he says your name is gonna be your calling card throughout this industry. Because what happens, the magazine could get, you know, super, super popular as Saltwater Sports had always was. He said, but then what happens, they get bought out.

Tom Rowland: Then

George Poveromo: the new company puts all their friends in, and they eliminate everybody. And the editors, the in house editors, they they have a a name and a reputation, but they're not out there where the industry really knows them. Whereas if you're always an independent contractor and you do well for them, you're always gonna stay on, but you have would have built up your name across that industry, and your name is your calling card. So he says the magazine is the avenue to keep your name out there and market yourself where everybody within industry knows you, out of the industry will know you. So you could start these other projects, which would be more lucrative than, say, a writing position for a magazine. And that was one thing he taught me early. He says, don't ever ever accept an in house position. Build your own name up and things could spin off, and you can make the money on the other things, outside of the magazine.

Tom Rowland: Our hand because, you know, today, you see private equity buying things, and there's big changes with private equity in that whole scenario that you say happens quite often now. That that somebody else moves in, they they they bring in a whole new crew. And but it's interesting that Mark Sosin would have seen that back then enough He

George Poveromo: was the best. To

Tom Rowland: give you the advice, though. So he must have seen that a couple of times where a magazine spot or something like that or a newspaper probably even too was bought, and then he he knew that right away.

George Poveromo: He knew that was day one, and that's how he built his, you know, his television series up from there. And then, again, we partnered with the seminar series and had that going. And and another funny thing related to that, in the in the beginning, you know, when Sosa and I were partners at the seminar, Saltwater, which today still is the executive sponsor, it's called the Saltwater Sportsman seminar series. But in actuality, Sosa and I owned a seminar back then. Mark retired after ten years of the seminar, so I bought his half out. And so I, today, still own a seminar series. Saltwater Sports was the title sponsor. But in the early days, he and I would sell the sponsors because he had a big name in the industry as you well know. And I was the upcomer in there, and I was getting well known with a lot of manufacturers. So he and I sold the sponsorships to the seminars, which made them successful. And then one time, well, I guess, we were so good at selling that I had recruited, Sperry Topsider. And they liked the idea of that grassroots seminar, and they signed on. So we told, the magazine, hey. We got Sperry Topsider. Well, I got a call from an irate, sales rep from, who had the new Northeast New England accounts that Sperry was an account. And he's all upset. Congratulations. And he all upset. You actually got in and you got Sperry. That was my account. I was working on Sperry for two years. I couldn't get in anything on him, and you go in and you steal that account from out from under me. So what are you talking about? We're just, you know, knocking on doors and calling potential sponsors. And so I told Mark, I said, we've got him all this rep all upset, and he's yelling at he spent two years working on his account. And then I went there and took it, and Mark says, if that guy spent two years working on that account and he couldn't get anywhere, he was not that good of a salesperson. So what happened then, the rep said, okay. To avoid conflict, what do you need to run the seminar? We will give you x amount of dollars. We will retain the selling sponsorship of the seminar series. This way, if we only sell one sponsor, you're gonna get x amount of money to produce the tour. If we sell 200 sponsors, we could get the over and above and which was a good deal because then we didn't have to go out and work with sponsors for the tour. We knew we had a set amount to work with, and then saltwater, to their benefit, used that as their advantage. They would go to a sponsor. Hey. Look. You know, you're doing eight eight pages with us a year. You know, I'll tell you what. If you bump that to 10, we'll give you the seminar and half price or maybe put you in for free. So they had a bargaining chip with that, which worked very well across the board all the way to what we have now, and this is year 39 for the seminars. So that that was a pretty good model there.

Tom Rowland: Do do you still have someone, you're still working with that kind of model where someone else is selling and and Yes. And you're not?

George Poveromo: Yes. It's the same model there where we'll get x amount or I'll get x amount to produce the entire tour, and then the magazine retains the sponsorship and over and above that they would make on it. So it's a it's a it's a it's a win win deal to to this day. It's been a a proven model.

20:33 · The Seminar Series Across Four Decades of Media

Tom Rowland: Now your seminar series has spanned enough time to where it goes back to where magazines, newspapers were the primary means of of information Right. To cell phones, Internet, streaming TV, on and on and on and on and on, social media. Where how have you seen the crowds change, or, what changes have you seen as technology and the and the primary source of communication has changed over time.

George Poveromo: Well, yeah, it was definitely you know, in in the heyday, the magazines were the big the big without a doubt about it. And, and and then, as things progressed, you still have that hardcore base that is still with the magazines. Now we gotta understand too that what we do, our industry, saltwater fishing, is sort of unique. And, I don't wanna say it bucks tradition out there as far as communication, but you know how expensive it is to be within our sport, saltwater fishing. Takes a lot of money to play the game. So the demographics are different. So the people who would have the money as a whole I'm not saying that there are not exceptions, but the people who have that kind of money as a whole, if they're fortunate and good businesses, all they're in their forties, more than likely, they'll see that in the fifties. And more than likely, you're in the sixties where they have that kind of money that could buy the best everything and continue. So those are the same people that have have grown up with magazines. And and and so they're still there. It's you know, they do do the YouTube. But, conversely, the YouTube in general is made up of young, young people, which demographic wise, unless a lot of them are independent wealthy or are gonna be have a hard time buying a $500 pen reel, a $700,000 center console boat. So the numbers may favor that YouTube demographic, but the real demographics that could play and participate in our sport still had the magazine, the print media, still have, like, the television where they could either record or stream on it and then with the YouTube. So it's more of a mix, but we're that saltwater industry is it still has a unique spot in this whole deal because of the demographics involved.

Tom Rowland: Right. Yeah. For for sure. Have you noticed that there were certain years where you had the the best turnout, in the seminar series, or is it continued to grow over the years? Or what do you think

George Poveromo: with the most popular years. I I would say probably were were really the gangbuster years because you had a lot more magazine, circulation out there. A lot more people were a 100% dialing the magazine, so we we had our biggest our biggest shows back then. Shoot. The biggest we ever had, which we set a record, was I wanna say was maybe year 11. And we were at a big casino in New Jersey, Atlantic City, and we had sold the place out at 1,250 seats. And there were still people at the door, but the fire marshal wouldn't let us let the people in at least because they're standing Ramon. He wouldn't let us happen. So we had a recapped it, which was actually scary. When you were going up on the stage and you looked and saw all those people out there, when it was all over, the technical director, he said, when you came and you booked this hall and you said you needed 600 seats for fishing seminar because because I thought you were off your rocker. Then you called me a few weeks later, and you need 800 seats. Then he asked me for a thousand. He said he said, I've been working this theater for fifteen years. There was only one other event that sold this theater out like you guys did. It was a special New Year's Eve celebration with Alice Cooper. Oh. So we go around telling everybody, hey. We tied Alice Cooper.

24:35 · Stage Fright, Lefty Kreh, and Commanding a Crowd

Tom Rowland: There you go. There you go. You know, I I think it's funny that you said that it was scary to step up there on a stage with with a thousand people out there. But in my experience, yeah, I haven't done nearly as many seminars as you have, but I have done some. And some of them, I I know exactly the feeling of of doing a seminar by the food court or you just all of a sudden get you you know, it's your time, and you get up there, and no one's expecting anything, and you just have to start talking on this microphone to a crowd that's walking by and doing other things, and they're not there for for you. I find that to be by far the most intimidating where I can stand up in front of, well, a television audience or or or some some other audience that's there. I don't know if it I guess it's the I guess it's their intent. Like, I used to do these fly casting seminars at, this thing that was called the the, International Sportsman's Exposition. You remember those? They were

George Poveromo: outcast, actually. Yeah.

Tom Rowland: And they hired me one for a couple years to come out there and do these fly casting exhibitions. And it was all fly fishing at that time. And and, there would be a big crowd. And they would have, you know, Lefty Cray would be there.

George Poveromo: Mhmm.

Tom Rowland: Kray Jeff would be there, Brian O'Keefe. And here I am as this young kid, you know, out there with those guys, and I would be nervous as I could be. But I was nervous because I was, you know, leading up to a lefty cray. Like, I was opening for Yes.

George Poveromo: Lefty cray.

Tom Rowland: Very, very intimidating as a young person. But the crowd was there to see fly fishing and fly casting.

George Poveromo: Yeah.

Tom Rowland: And I could stand up in front of that crowd and not have, butterflies in my stomach the same way that I would if I were to walk out there first and no one's expecting this thing to start for another thirty minutes and you have to, like, warm up the crowd. That makes me so nervous. Like, or or you get out there for a seminar, say somebody ask you at a Miami boat show or something to do a seminar in their booth, and you you just kinda show up and nobody's really expecting it. You're hoping somebody shows up. There's three or four people there. That is what makes me the most nervous as opposed to a big crowd. What what about you? Do which one would

George Poveromo: you again, go going back to the the initial seminar series. Then the first year we brought this out. Okay? Mark Sosin, big headliner. He's the biggie. Lefty Craig did a number of events with us too who had come in there, and then you have Rick Cunningham from Saltwater Sportsman. So I remember the very first one. It was in Orlando at the Tupperware Convention Center. So we had it it was I remember this. We had 711 people because I remember seven eleven, like the, store. Yeah. So and I had to go out and open and say, welcome everybody there and and tell them all about the seminars, and let's bring on my cohost, Mark Sosin. So I'm looking at outside that drape behind the stage. I'm looking at all these people, and I am scared to death. And, you know, because and because you're you're the the newcomer. You know? You have like you just said, I have Sosun on and I have Lefty Crane. I have Rip Cunningham. They were the big happening headliners of their day, the legends, I should really call them. And here I am then sort of the newcomer, get ready to go out there and and mix it up with them. So I had to go out there, and I just sucked it up. And, then all of a sudden, something takes over. You that that fear, you you still have it, but it turns to be more constructive. And then you sort of feed off the crowd a little bit, and you you you could see how they are. And then, so those early ones were were pretty terrifying. I know what you meant. But, going compared to, like, TV, it it's great. Love what I do, but there's something about going out with a big crowd now that you just feed off of, and you really like it. And I like that personal exchange that that we have. It's really hard to place. It's more of a personal communication type of a deal that, you know, you get used to. But, initially, man, it was scary.

28:42 · Year 39: Taking the Seminar Series to Television

Tom Rowland: Yeah. Yeah. We've had, you know, so many changes now with just different technology of, like, Zoom and and webinars and and other things that make it very, very easy to put a course out there or to put, Yeah. You know, some information out there to where someone you know, people from around the world can be watching it on their computer, but no one's together. And I do believe that the more that we move in that direction, the more that there will be a a longing towards in person events and and back in in person. And I I feel like your seminar series is a great example of that. Like, it the more I mean, I I believe that the courses will still sell really well, and more people will be ingesting saltwater fishing content, how to learn trying to learn in every way, but I still believe that they will be going, to the in person events.

George Poveromo: There's no doubt about it. And and that's like you said, that's something that that that we're we're really missing or the industry is missing. We we've stuck with it. And a little twist, for this year, which is year 39 for seminar, we're actually a televised event for this year, where they our series will start beginning to air in April. Now how that transpired when COVID came around, we forgot, but we're gonna take a year off. And, one of our sponsors, it was actually the Florida Keys, said, you've been at this for so long. You gotta keep the continuity going. Do a Zoom thing, and I'm not gonna do Zoom. And I thought about that. With Saltwater Sports, when they had their show on television, I have my show. So between our TV contacts so let's turn this into a televised edition. So for three years of the COVID, we filmed it at the IGFA, a 13 episode series. And Saltwater Sportsman was shocked as were some of our sponsors at the when we get the ratings back from the networks, we were hitting about a million, a little over a million household viewers per series a a year. And so we did the, the, televised version for three years. So '9 so 2024 went back on the road. 2025 last year went back on the road. And a number of our sponsors are saying, when are you guys gonna do the TV again? We love the TV. We hit so many more people out there that are in different states that would never make it to the seminars, but they have heard about it, that they would tune in and we get a much broader reach. So we had discussions with the magazine, so we decided, okay. Let's sort of figure out how we could do not a hybrid, but let's make both factions of the sponsor camp happy because a lot of the sponsors love the interaction of the grassroots approach. So 2026, we start airing in April. We film these at the IGFA in January. Then next year is the forty year anniversary tour for the seminar. We're gonna go back on the road with our normal eight stop tour. They have a lot of festive things planned to reel in that forty year anniversary. You might shoot somebody out of a cannon during intermission. If you wanna volunteer, we'll we'll launch it.

Tom Rowland: Oh, thank you.

George Poveromo: But but but yeah. So I

Tom Rowland: might I I'd be better at at catching the person getting launched out of the cannon. I don't wanna be the one going in through the air.

George Poveromo: We'll find somebody for that. You know? And, but, so yeah. So the televised edition this year, then we go back to the grassroots, which I like the grassroots. The TV is a lot easier, but you work with your faculty

Tom Rowland: Yeah.

George Poveromo: And there's really no audience interaction to feed off of. Whereas when you're doing this, feed off the audience.

Tom Rowland: When you're doing the televised one, like, for next year, that won't have a live audience component at all, just just pure detail.

George Poveromo: No. Just like we did the COVID years, it's pure purely studio. We've brought it about a both? Pardon me?

Tom Rowland: Have you thought about doing both? Like like I've read televising yeah. Well, you had a live event and televise it.

George Poveromo: The problem with that is we talked about maybe we put in a limited amount of seats and and do it in front of a live audience. But the you lose the control because somebody needs to go up. They wanna get bathroom break or whatever. You hear a chair move, and it interrupts the actual film. And we we really visited how we could put maybe a 100 people and let them in to see this thing. And the control, we we would have lost that because we were very regimented when we came in. We would film, you know, 07:00 to 07:30, session one. Five minute break to change one team out, bring the next team, and get right in the other. So we fill these so tightly that any audience or any person there could have disrupted it with noise, sneezing, or whatever. So, we opted not to do, live or comp you know, when we did the the televised version.

Tom Rowland: And where does this air, or where did it air?

George Poveromo: It's gonna air in April. We're gonna be on the World Fishing Network. We'll be on Outdoor America. I'm gonna post it on my YouTube channel. So we're just getting everything all in order for our April airings now. We're we're in the editing process. We just started now editing each episode. So how that goes is we had our whole stage set. We have four faculty members, and we had total of 12, and we would alternate based on the courses. And in the editing process, rather than seeing four guys or girls or whatever coming in tight to their faces and talking, we intersperse with a lot of fishing footage that we have. So we have a lot of visual content that could go to on the water, you could see the fish you're talking about. Some of the techniques that are being discussed, you'll see them in play on the actual video. So it makes for a very in entertaining type seminar. You don't see four talking heads. You briefly see four talking heads, but a lot of video footage interspersed to make it really, you know, an eye catching, eye candy type, seminar where people can also visually learn as they could, you know, just from the, the voices.

34:47 · Studio vs. On-the-Water: Which Is Harder?

Tom Rowland: Now with you as a host or producer, whatever your role is there, probably both in in some way, which do you think is easier or harder, being on the water, doing a TV show, or doing doing a studio event like that with really, really tight Oh,

George Poveromo: suit studios are always easy. You don't have to deal with weather as you well know.

Tom Rowland: Yeah.

George Poveromo: I I didn't need Right. That's right. The filming deal, that that that it's a major, major undertaking, and and I'm telling you anything new on this thing. You have production teams. You have boats to move around, destinations to go to. And when you map your shoots out, you have to do it so far in advance to lock in where you're going and lock in a production team because you don't know what that weather is gonna do to you at that time. Well, you get everything perfect.

Tom Rowland: And then the weather gives you a a curveball.

George Poveromo: Right. Or you get out there, and all of a sudden, your main species is not cooperating or not in the area. So you've gotta be adept enough to switch gears and go after something else. So without a doubt, the television is way more challenging to put put the to get studio things easy. It doesn't rain. It doesn't blow 30 knots on you in there, and, you know, it's easy.

Tom Rowland: That's right. Yeah. And and, there there are a lot more cameraman, producers, crew people that are available for studio things than there are cameramen that do not get to be sick offshore.

George Poveromo: And and you had Yes.

Tom Rowland: Real concern. And I'm sure that you you probably have have a lot of the same people working with you over a long time, but I'm sure there has been a cameraman that got sick on your on your show.

George Poveromo: No doubt about it. And and it is. And as you well know, it's a specialized type of videographer that could work with the actual fishing shows. Right. You need to find someone who really likes fishing, that has the sea legs, that is there's a lot that goes into it. Somebody that everyone's gonna get along to. You don't want a a clown out there or a jerk that's gonna make your reputation look bad. You don't want some videographer who's gonna end up till 02:00 in the morning in the Key West, bar all hammered and then it because that reflects bad on your production. So you need to have a real tight cruise. Not to say we don't have fun. When we get that boat back tied up safely, we're washing down, let the guys have a papa's pla rum and, you know, just to relax a little bit, but then that's about it. Everyone gets to bed early. We gotta get up super early and gotta go to work. We're there to work, not to have a party.

37:12 · Memorable Trips and the 100-Pound Mark at San Salvador

Tom Rowland: Right. Yeah. Last time you were on, you told me, the story about, fishing with Nick Stansick and and, the sailfish. And and Sword swordfish. Right? Sword swordfish. Right? Yeah. Sorry. Yeah. Sorry. The swordfish story. And that was an incredible story, but I wonder if if there is another one that stands out of something that was was extraordinary to you, like a show that that really meant something to you. Was there was there a guest or or something that you've you've had in your career that really stands out outside of that story?

George Poveromo: That is so tough to to to feel like a show wise. And, I've been asked that a lot. If I had to really nail it down because, see, with me, what I judge, personally speaking, from memorable shows is I always like the ones I would do in my own hometown waters, Biscayne Bay. It could be a sea trout show. Bisc because that's where you grew up. So you have the sentimental flavor to that. Now a spectacular, type of a slant, It's hard to argue when I had gone to The Bahamas. I got the 143 pound, Wahoo. I mean, that's a pretty sensational catch there. That is. And, that was great. And then they wanted me to come back two, three years later, and I said, I'm not going back there. How are you gonna top a 143 pound wahoo? So the boat I was fishing with on the second time said, let's go change it up. Let's go in springtime. Let's go after marlin tunas and that. I said, okay. So we catch tunas. We get dolphin, and we're just trolling lures on the way back to the marina after a successful shoot. Rigor goes down. The fish is staying straight up and down. I'm thinking it's a small blue. Captain's saying it's a yellow fin. Lo and behold, we got a 113 pound wahoo.

Tom Rowland: Wow.

George Poveromo: And so the only two trips that I've been to San Salvador, you know, I've cracked that 100 pound mark. So I think that's pretty, you know, spectacular as far as that goes. And, there have been wonderful trips. We've done Blue Marlin episode out of Brazil where we race 10 blues a day down there. That's spectacular. I mean, so many that that's a hard one for me to answer. But as far as maybe where you're going with this as far as the, the catastrophe or the danger, like, when I had gone overboard with that swordfish with Nick Sancic, I remember before I got in the industry, it was my early years in saltwater sports when he used to sailfish a lot out of West Palm Beach. And here we go. In the morning, we got the kites up on my center console, and a sailfish eats a close bait. I come tight. It starts launching, starts running towards the boat. No big deal. You're just trying to keep pace and not throw slack in the line. Well, the boat just happened to be in a way that sailfish launched into the air. Oh. And I'm it's coming down. I'm looking up at it. I turn to run. The sailfish comes down, bill first, into my right butt cheek. I go down and hit the deck. Now the sailfish is slop flopping and beating the heck out of me on the deck and goes overboard. And I'm stunned at what happened. I hear my friend, grab your rod. Grab your rod. I reach out. I grab my rod. I still have the fish on. So I stand back up, and I'm fighting the fish. I feel all this warm stuff running down my leg. So we get the sailfish in, and we release it. And so I get the first aid kit, and I had regular underwear on. I had two pairs of thermal underwear. I had, jeans and a foul weather suit because it was real cold that day. That sailfish, Bill, went through all those layers into my butt cheek. I break out the first aid kit, put the hydrogen peroxide, and pack that whole thing up, stayed out there and fished. And, got back home. This is when I was living in, North Miami. Trailer the boat all the way back, and then I had a shower up, have dinner, jump in in a bed. My wife and I are watching The Tonight Show, whatever was on. On. And all of a sudden, it's like something somebody took a flame thrower to my right cheek. Wow. And it oh, so what happened? I I told her. She says, you need to get to the hospital. Look at that. So we go to the hospital. Doctor comes in. So what happened to you? And I told him, he says, how long did ago this happened? I told him, he said, are you crazy? Why did you stay out there? He said, because we got four more sailfish. He said, you know the bacteria content they have on their bills that you get blood poisoning? Anyway, he had to clean it out, give me several stitches, and, Saltwater did a little cartoon about that, what happened. So, that was a pretty weird deal. And if you take that scar that I have on my right cheek and put a string to it and come around in the front, if I didn't turn and get at least halfway to get out of the way, that would have been a direct bull's eye here. I might have been talking to you in a, much, a different tone than I am now. But Well but my freaking career ended. I could be identified now.

42:03 · Fish Poisoning and a Mutton Snapper Close Call

Tom Rowland: Yeah. These days, you you get, that fish poisoning and other other, MRSA and other things

George Poveromo: Yeah.

Tom Rowland: That that can be really, really bad. And it seems like some years, it's way worse than others. You read about many things happening. I had a mutton snapper, that was just big enough for me to to think that I could get my hand around it like that. Like, it was a small mutton snapper. And so instead of, like, holding it under like you would a big one or putting your arm on it like this and and taking the hook out, I thought that I could get it like like this. And the first spine hit me right in the Oh. In the in this joint right here. Just a little bit. I mean, just a little bit. Just enough for you to be like, ah. Oh. You know? And I I took the thing off, and my hand, it was kinda burning. And I felt like,

George Poveromo: you

Tom Rowland: know, I think maybe your spine broke off in my in my finger. And, by the end of the day, my hand started getting, like, hard to open and close. Oh. And, so I had I'd I fished with, several doctors in Fort Lauderdale. One of them was a spinal surgeon, and I called him and I was like, hey, man. I I I I don't know what happened. I think I might have a little fish spine in here or something, but never had a problem like this where it where it just burns like this. And he said, You got you got something bad. You gotta you gotta cancel your trip tomorrow. Come up here, be up here at 07:00 in the morning. And he said, I'll get you in with a hand specialist. And so he had me all set up, and I went up there. And by the morning, my hand was, like, locked in kinda like like this. And so I go up there, cancel my trip. It's the first first and only fishing trip I I think I have ever canceled with a paying guest. I was just like, you know, I I can't do this. I've gotta go to the hospital. And so the guy said he was gonna cut the cut my hand open in three different places, irrigate it, and then put me on IV antibiotics and all this other stuff. And this is my right hand. I mean and, you know, I'm right handed. So and I'm professional fishing guide, so there's a lot of problems here. So I said, or, like, what is the alternative here? And he said, man, I can put you on this, super strong antibiotic. And back then, it was called Cipro was the one, and, that stuff's supposed to kill anything. He said, you can try this, and if it is not significantly better tomorrow, we're going we're gonna operate on your hand. Oh. And, this is all from one little fish sponge. You've had a million of them in your in in your life. And this is one little thing, and it didn't even go in that deep. But But there was some sort of bacteria on it that was really, really bad, and luckily, that antibiotic did the trick. And I didn't have

George Poveromo: to saying that.

Tom Rowland: But you hear stories about that. Like, somebody gets, a scrape and they're in a lake or they're on the ocean or something, and they scrape their leg on something. And the next thing you know, they've got this wicked bacteria shooting through their their body, and I don't I can't make heads or tails of it, of what exactly that is, what causes it, how you would even know whether the water I mean, sometimes you you look at a whole swamp or something, you're like, boy, I wouldn't wanna get a cut in there. But some of these places are I mean, I was out at the Marquesas. Like, this is beautiful.

George Poveromo: Really? That pure water down there. Yeah.

Tom Rowland: Clear water, everything. And, you know, all the fish that you get spined by in your in your career. I mean, it happens all the time. Right? You get a little, even if you're, like, using pinfish for bait, you you know, one hits you every now and then. And, of all the spines, that's the only one that that's ever happened to, to me. But I think it happens to other people. And I I wish I could give someone, advice on how to avoid that, but I just I don't know. I think some fish have it and some fish don't.

George Poveromo: I you know, you you I mean, that's very strange. Like, you didn't get your hand operated on that. That was like a major rebuild there if you had to have that happen. So I'm glad that would work.

Tom Rowland: Been a really big deal. And I I don't have any any effects from it, but it certainly could have been really, really bad. And, Wow. But I don't know how to avoid it. I mean, some of those things, you you you have a story like that, and you say, well, I learned my lesson and I'd, you know, go on. But there was no lesson to learn there. No. It was just a just a weird freak kinda thing. Now I do, those those size fish, any kind of mangrove snapper or something about that size, I now pin them against the side. It makes my shirt all dirty or my rain raincoat. You know? And I don't grab fish like that anymore. I just pin them up against the side and then take the hook out like that, and then just open my arm up, and they fall back in the water. And I have moved to that technique. I come home. I smell worse. But

George Poveromo: But you're safer.

Tom Rowland: Hey. Yeah. I'm safer. And and, you know, if you come home smelling like fish, then you've had a pretty good day, I guess.

George Poveromo: Yes. Or or or you have some accumulating to do it later on, maybe.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. It It could be worse. Yeah. How many how many days have you come back and you smell like no fish? I know. Dang. That sucks.

George Poveromo: Well, think about the fish that like, you take Miami. You know, you you have these sewer outlets and everything. Like, you catch a catfish or you catch something around those sewer outlets, and it's treated, but you have to handle those fish. You would think like, wow. That that's sort of getting into a little risky proposition there.

Tom Rowland: Right. So that would make more sense. But out in

George Poveromo: the more cases, you can

Tom Rowland: have that kind of stuff.

George Poveromo: Yeah. That's insane.

Tom Rowland: Mutton snapper is not necessarily a migratory fish like a like, you know, that could have come from an area like that. And and it's also small. Like, it it wasn't wasn't big at all. So it's not an old fish. It's a Right. It's a young fish. It's a very strange kinda thing, and I don't know why that happened. But I'm glad it I'm glad that I had someone I could call that told me how serious it was and that I should take action immediately because I think if I'd let that go for another day, could have been a real problem.

George Poveromo: That's a scary

48:06 · Blue Marlin in Brazil, FADs, and Smarter Anglers

Tom Rowland: been on location in some you you said you were in in Brazil, and you and you, you know, you're saying you raised 10 blues a day. How do you think that, compares to today where we have the fads and and you see these numbers that that some of these guys are getting around these fads with with all types of marlin, but it it's really incredible. Do you have an opinion on on that and where where we are with the with the fishing right now?

George Poveromo: Oh, well, it's not like it used to be when we were, like, young and when you had more fish stocks. But, I I think that, you know, we catch more fish because we're more educated in how to do it. We know the tricks of the trade, so we do well. But going back to the fad deal, in Brazil, we're fishing the, Royal Charlotte Bank, which is a big bank that was, like, 50 miles or so off where we were fishing, Canaviere's Brazil. So I was a natural bank. But, you know, you look at these areas down there, Dominican Republic, where you fish the fads. I sort of, you know, double edged sword. I like the idea because you have targets you could go to that bring in bait, that bring in your pelagics that increases your chances of catching fish. I guess the downside, is if they get abused commercially, large scale commercially, where those fish get more gathered up and hammered harder, it's a double edged sword. You know, it's we here at our coast, as you know, we have artificial reefs, which, you know, help people catch fish, obviously, in gathering spots for baiting fish. But, you know, that that's a double edged sword. But, Yeah.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. It's hard to it's hard to to have it. I guess what you really want is a fad where only you know where it is.

George Poveromo: Of course. And there may have been one or two set around with that, in in mind, but, yes. That would be great if only you knew where you had that one special one. That would be pretty pretty good.

Tom Rowland: If anybody doesn't know what a fad is, it's a fish attracting device, f a d, And it could be anything. Right? Like, what's the I mean, they could make it out of palm fronds. They could make it out of chain and and all kinds of mech I mean, it's it's as it's old, like but they would be down deep enough to where you couldn't see it on the surface. You would know where it was because of your your, you know, your your electronics. Right? So, you know, you basically, it is a thing that only you know about. But if you're fishing that area a lot, catch fish too, and all of a sudden, they know where the fat is. Yeah. And then as it goes, more and more and more people know where that is as well. But, it's interesting that you said that, you know, we're we're catching more fish because we know more. And Yeah. One of the things that I wanted to ask you, and I ask a lot of people that have a a lot of fishing experience and a and a long career, is about the different technologies that we had, that have have kinda developed in the time that you that you have fishing in in electronics, like, you probably had Lorraine at some point. Right?

George Poveromo: When you're Yeah. When Lorraine first came out, we put it on the boat. You before Lorraine, you were just doing sites off of land and Right. At that. And then Lorraine came out, Lorraine c, and that was like, wow. That was, you know, pretty good. And then, of course, it follows up later on with GPS, but the the electronics today or what we have today is probably what the cruise ships had forty years ago. You know?

51:44 · From Loran to GPS: The Biggest Advancements

Tom Rowland: Right. Right. So so with you know, maybe it's electronics. I mean, certain other people have talked about, like, actual fishing tackle improvements. What do you think have been kinda like that trip you took? Like, what stands out in your mind of your career of some of the biggest improvements in in that that have helped you catch more fish?

George Poveromo: So as far as the advancements, electronics stand out as the most. It's just in in insane what we have out there today. Not only GPS, but then as you well know, all the secret areas that we would have or or friends would share numbers to spots, now you get, like, these high definition bathymetric charts that show you every nook and cranny along the bottom. You could just study that and see where the rocks or the piles or the any depressions. And you put the cursor, and you run right to them now. So that almost throws a lot of those hot spots with GPS out of the out of the question because you have that. You have radars that could turn tune into bird mode or whatever and actually see the birds when you're chasing dolphin. Whereas before, the old standard radar, you had to know how to fine tune it to find the birds. It was more of, you know, a level of experience to do that versus now a newcomer could jump in and hit that, look for birds. They could put a bathymetric chart in, see what they wanna bottom fish with. It's become so easy, in the sonars that we have now, but, you still need to know the subtleties involved to really put together a good day. You could give everybody a lot of information, and they'll score. They'll do okay. But it's still the subtleties ahead of fishing area, what that moon phase or what the currents may be doing, if you're marking fish you're not hitting, you know, know enough to scale down with Troy or Gamble with super light leaders or small hooks. So there's a lot to it that you can't rule out experience because the experience, as I mentioned, helps us catch a lot more fish as we're doing now as we're more experienced than back in the day when we had more fish and used to somebody had asked me that, how I saw these the fish populations over the decades. And we all know that they're you know, they get less and less and less, but, fortunately, we have good conservation rules that keep some at sustainable levels. And I said, it's all generational what a good day is now. I remember growing up. My father and his friends, they'd go out, and all of a sudden, the kingfish would be running. And remember, they would have a a garbage pail, and they load them up with kingfish because you could or when the dolphin were running. You put 50 of them in the boat because you could. That was the mindset back then. So when I started doing it on my own sixteen, seventeen, 18, you know, you hit those really good days, and you put 30 some in the boat, and this and that. And you look at what we get out there today, you know, when you hit a, you know, hit the big school of fish, where if you wanted to bail 50, if you you wanted it, which you wouldn't, you know, you don't see those numbers like you did past then. So whereas my father in his day would say, man, you get sixty, seventy dolphin days. Whereas from my age, say, 16 to my mid twenties, man, good day. Man, we got thirty, thirty five dolphin in a boat. You talked to somebody today. How'd you oh, man. We did good. We we got about eight. We already got 10 dolphin out today. So mentally and it's generational where they think today, you could go out. If you get a dozen dolphin, wow. It's been a good day. So it's a mindset general in a generation kind of thing.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. And then then there's also you know, you you get you put the right equipment in the right person's hands, and you have a a fishing guide that has a tremendous amount of experience. And and now they have equipment that can take them 60 miles an hour with enough fuel. They'd be doing that all day long, and they're getting in here and 10 there and 10 over here, and they could have an 80 fish

George Poveromo: day

Tom Rowland: because the equipment is allowing it. And where whereas maybe your dad was getting 60 in one little spot, six months off the cup. Right? And and so now you go 200 miles to get that same amount of of of fish, but it's it's certainly possible. And I feel like I feel like the young fishing guides right now have so much, information, and there are some of them that are so good, so, so good. They know how to use the electronics. They know all the history. They may maybe they're a second generation guy. They know what their dad did. They know they fish in all the tournaments. They know what everybody's doing. And and then they also have the equipment and the fuel and the range to be able to just do whatever whatever there is, whatever they want. That's that to me is is is a real big change. Is it Yeah. Boat technology and just just fuel fuel, like, the amount of fuel that we can carry and the range that you can go. That is that's a big change.

George Poveromo: And I agree with you. That's another component. Going back, one of my dad's favorite spots to fish, the Marquesas, the rock piles.

Tom Rowland: Yeah.

George Poveromo: It would drag me out as a young kid, and and and he just loved that spot. But back when I was a young kid, you didn't have really the fuel capacities to run. You didn't have the speed back then. We used to go out and fish and then overnight and then fish till next day because you didn't have the fuel or really the speed to to do a lot of stuff. Now you look at the boats where you got the high horsepower outboards, the fuel capacity, like you said, where the Dry Tortugas used to be like the far off distant horizon. And now that's a regular day trip to a lot of boats. I've done that trip in a day.

Tom Rowland: Fort Myers. Right? Like, just a day trip from Fort Myers, not even Key West. Like, people people go there from way north in Florida. It's incredible.

George Poveromo: And so you even look beyond the Tortugas now. So all those final frontiers, as they used to be called, are are no longer final. The a lot of boats are getting out there now. And, one thing that I sort of fear is when they sort of get to those areas and those fisheries sort of get abused in a in a good you know, in a bad way, I should say. And I just fear that those really untapped waters are now being tapped. You just wish a little bit more conservation would rule, to preserve the fisheries in there because there are some that go there and they abuse it, and and you probably know or seen pictures of who they may be. And what's gonna happen, and they keep putting them on social media, they keep putting that stuff out there. They're gonna shut those areas down and and ruin it for all of us. And I just think you have to have a conservation mindset. Then we were out there. Sure. You're burning a lot of gas and all to catch more fish, but you don't need to overload on it. Right. So there again, double edged sword.

58:46 · The Shark Explosion in South Florida

Tom Rowland: Mhmm. Another thing that, threatens use, I think, in in places that we go and where we can where we can go is is the sharks. Oh, wow. Sharks.

George Poveromo: Yes. Big time. I would like

Tom Rowland: to get your opinion on on the state of the of the sharks. Let's just keep it to South Florida. Okay. What where what have you seen? What do you see? What do you think the state of the shark

George Poveromo: It's it's it's it's overbearing is what had happened. And those sharks, I guess, we've had protected them so much over those decades. They're an apex predator. So, really, other than man, there's really no other animal species above them that could keep them under control. And they're pretty intelligent. They pick up on boat sounds. They know what equates to food. When the boat shuts down over an area, they're gonna hang around the wrecks. It it's just been overwhelming to you know, for example, some of the humps out of the, Florida Keys used to catch these black fins on light tackle and have sport with them. You can't do that. Now you use try to even heavy tackle horse them in with a lot of these sharks. They have to do something, and I'd I don't know what it is. I I always like to say they should have a limited commercial reentry on these species. I'm not talking about the, you know, the great pelagics, like the tiger sharks or the great hammerhead. They're I don't think are the ones that are causing the issues. But when I say limited commercial reentry, I think it's almost like again, double edged sword, limited hook and line. You don't want to open up to long lines to come back for the sharks because then that would open a door to the longliners coming back. Well, hey. You're allowing it for the sharks, so why can't we do it for swordfish? Plus, when you do these long lines on the reef, you're gonna catch some black grouper and other species on them too. So it's how do you, how do you do a limited commercial reentry to thin them down somehow, some way? That that that's the thing. And I think you talk to some commercial shark, that that used to commercial sharkfish. They don't do anymore, so it's not a market. But you could create a market for that. You could create a market for anything today. And if they created that market, then you had more people rod and reel or hook and line. But but there's so many of them. I don't know if that would do it. So Right. But we did that we have a big problem. And as far as conservation goes, when you're fighting a fish, a bottom fish that may be below the minimum length, boom, it'll get eaten by a shark maybe or even if you get a nice one. So think of how many fish you lose to shark predation, and that sort of goes against the conservation issue there too. It it it's a problem. It's problematic. I never remember ever seeing so many sharks off our waters.

Tom Rowland: Well, I that's that was the next question is, you know, when you're a kid, you're going out to the Marquesas, you're fishing with your dad out there. How many of those fish are getting eaten by a shark Okay. Back then?

George Poveromo: Yeah. Or out from here. Every now and then, if you wanted to cool down, I wouldn't do it because I don't get out of a boat voluntarily. But some other than that one time with the swordfish, that was involuntarily. But, you know, you you you get a friend or two. Hey. Let me just jump in and cool off. Back in the day, you let them swim out there in the stream for a little bit, get them back in a boat. You wouldn't dare do that now.

Tom Rowland: Right. Yeah. It's it's, I mean, I can remember, like, I had my dad down one time when I was kinda learning, the keys and, you know, he had a barracuda attack by a shark. And that used to happen every now and then, but it's still a story that he tells.

George Poveromo: Mhmm.

Tom Rowland: Wow. Do you remember when that that happened? And, you know, it stands out because it was fairly rare. It would happen if you were in the right area or if there were a lot of sharks around, but it wasn't like it happened every third fish, like like, in sometimes when you're fishing in the Everglades or something. I mean, that that is it it's gotten so bad in places that you just can't even fish there.

George Poveromo: Okay. But one more on that while you're holding that thought. On my center console offshore, I have an inflatable, a six person life raft in case something ever happening offshore. And you talk about the backcountry where you're at. That is way more dangerous to fall in those waters and offshore because in all that murky water, you're not gonna survive. It's almost like they need these rafts to be on the boat out there. Should something happen and you're gonna sink, you need to get in a raft. Otherwise, it's gonna be you're gonna be in bad shape with the number of sharks that are out there.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. Well, I mean, you've seen the videos of of, you know, there there's one video of a fishing guide. He releases a redfish or something like that, and he turns shake hands with his client, kinda wipes his hands off in the water, and he touches the water like that, and the shark grabs him, you know, right by the grabs his Yeah. Side of his hand like that, the pinky, and Yeah. And pulls him right in. And, you know, it you have to be incredibly careful now, but the the number of sharks is is incredible. And, also, what I've noticed is that the conversation has changed, a little bit. Now people are actually admitting that there are more sharks.

George Poveromo: Mhmm. But,

Tom Rowland: you know, you talk to, scientists. And on this podcast, we've talked to a lot of different types of people. Divers, scientists, fishermen, sport fishermen, meat fishermen, commercial fishermen. All of these interests have have been on the podcast. And it's interesting about, how the the shark discussion has just changed over time to where, at first, people would be like, no. There's not more sharks. It's just that they that they're they're they hear the boat, and they're coming to it, and it's just that they're more fishermen, and there's more more sharks engaging. And I'm like, you just go fish with me one day because

George Poveromo: I will show you to a

Tom Rowland: place where the you it's undeniable. I mean, if you go to if you go to, snake bite in in the in the Everglades

George Poveromo: Mhmm.

Tom Rowland: And you look, there will you can look with a pair of binoculars, and there will be shark fins as far as you can see. And they're small, and they're growing up. Right? And I remember it wasn't that long ago where you I mean, you always see sharks up there. Like, that is your they're it's a nursery. Right? It's a very, very healthy nursery, and it's a very important place. And there's always small sharks

George Poveromo: up there.

Tom Rowland: Sure. I have never seen what I see now where it is, like, in in you get up there and you look in every direction, and there are just it's as far as you can see.

George Poveromo: Sure.

Tom Rowland: And you go around any of the islands, and it's the big they have grown up there, and there are lemon sharks everywhere. And and but but at least the conversation has changed a little bit to being like, okay. There's not a sharks are not in a I guess it is possible that they could be in a worldwide decline. The numbers of sharks have come down worldwide, but that doesn't mean that there can't be a giant, explosion in certain areas

George Poveromo: Agreed.

Tom Rowland: Or other sharks. Agreed. Agreed. But at least people are starting to recognize that. And for a while, when I started first noticing the shark issue and talking to people about it, there was a lot of resistance to the fact that there that there could be more sharks than than ever Yeah. Or more sharks than last year or more sharks than ten years ago. People just would not acknowledge that. Now fisherman would the people that are out there fishing would would do that, but it was not universally accepted through other activities, I guess. And now I think it is. And there are some so do you know anything about the the SHARK Act?

George Poveromo: No. What is that?

66:41 · The SHARK Act, Access, and What AI Brings Next

Tom Rowland: Well, it's, I had congressman Rob Whitman on the podcast, and he has introduced a bill that is called the SHARK Act. And it is supposed to study interactions between sharks and humans. Now Rob Wittman is a big time fisherman, loves fishing. Just like when I interviewed him on this, it looked just like your office. He had he had tuna behind him. He had all kinds of fishing Mhmm. Ounce behind him. He is a fisherman, and I and he he he claims that this is supposed to benefit fishermen. And my one of my main questions was, is this in any way going to keep us from going to certain areas? And he said no. But that's my fear of of something like that is that you you you say we wanna we wanna decrease human shark interactions. So the easiest way to do that is just say, well, you can't go over here where there's a lot of interactions.

George Poveromo: I don't I don't agree with that.

Tom Rowland: I don't either. That is the hill I will die on is that we it's is access. Now you can change the limits. You can tell us that that, you know, you even you can't even fish for this specie anymore. That's fine. Mhmm. But we need to be able to go there.

George Poveromo: Sure.

Tom Rowland: That's that reducing access or eliminating access or or or just saying you just can't go here anymore, that that to me is that's a really it's a really tough one because so many times that I've seen things close like that, they've never reopened.

George Poveromo: Exactly. A 100%.

Tom Rowland: Reopen, but they don't.

George Poveromo: Nope. Never. So I'm with you in that for sure.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. Well, George, when you look at, the this what we talked about a couple of things with technology changes, and we've talked about some some gear changes and things like that. There's another one that's kind of, simmering under the surface, and I think that we're at a real crossroads this year, as far as AI. And when you look at AI in terms of how it will affect the world, start with a fishing perspective. Do you think that AI has the potential to significantly change recreational fishing?

George Poveromo: I'm sure it will. And I'll I'll give you sort of what I'm basing that on right now is, ROS, Fish and Ocean Forecasting.

Tom Rowland: Yep.

George Poveromo: They had paired up with, like, SIMRAD, okay, for FishCast. Now it's a subscriber service where we've had the latest SIMRAD machines. You could get a three layer display on your sonar that shows where the water circulation features are within your area, water surface temperatures, plankton contours or fronts. And based on all that, it would give you anywhere from 10 to 15 projected hot spots based on Ross' fishing forecast analysis in these areas. So what they have there is they were going fishing one day and you have that. You could scroll back twenty four hours or so to see what what that water circulation feature look like. You could go to your day or you could project up the next day in advance or so and see where AI projects those currents and everything to be twenty four hours or so ahead. So they're all of a sudden, it's coming into play right there in the fishing industry based on where the water circulation features were yesterday, where they're gonna be on your day of fishing, where they're projected to be the next day or so in advance. So, again, that sort of tightens that playing field because you're gonna know where true edges of the Gulf Stream may be, where these current edges are intersecting with offshore structures, how long it's in place, what is the plankton concentrations, which would attract bait and fish. So there's one example right there that it comes into play where it could be in a beneficial form. But, like I said, it's in the infancy stages you will know. And, hey, it might be that you and I, we don't have to even do fishing shows anymore. We can do it all AI from the couch. Don't worry about whether we're on 20 knots.

Tom Rowland: Honestly, that that's probably coming too. But, you know, fishermen are are very particular, like, about fish art, about mounts, about Right. Video. If something doesn't look right, it stands out immediately because because we study the fish so much. Like, what we study, every little thing, and sometimes well, not just sometimes. I think most often, it is these things about a fish, like the way they jump or the way that they move in a certain situation. That is what is very, very interesting to me. And so when I see a piece of fish art and the eye doesn't look right or the mouth doesn't look right, I notice it immediately immediately. And I don't and I don't like that. And I think that it we're a long way off from from AI being able to do what what we do, but AI transitions and AI little you know, could you add a bird in the sky, or could you do this

George Poveromo: and that? That takes away from us. Everything we enjoy. Everything we enjoy. Everything we go out there to seek and enjoy, you know, that could definitely, you know, take away from it.

Tom Rowland: It could. It could. But I think that we are on a real real crossroads, and it's not entirely different than, you know, when we we're we're both, old enough to to remember when the the, Internet came around and cell phones and things like that. And it's kind of like I really see that happening all over again, but exponentially more in in AI. And I think that we're right on the cusp.

George Poveromo: Yes. I agree.

Tom Rowland: We're right on the job of of, maybe we all have a little bit more free time to go fishing if, if if AI takes jobs. I don't know. I don't know. Do not take fishing host might be one of the, one of the ones down the down the

George Poveromo: Hey. The camera plays you. Hey. The camera plays you as a personality. You've been around a long time. I have a big name, and I like to think the same with me. So we still have our reputations that we could still ride, into the sunset at least another ten years.

Tom Rowland: Well, let's hope so. Let's hope so. Well, I'll tell you what, George. It's been really great catching up with you. I I I respect you, and and you've had an incredible career. And I thank you for your time and and coming on and telling us some stories and and giving us your perspective on a lot of things, including the sharks. I really, really appreciate it.

George Poveromo: No. It's an honor being, on the podcast with you, and, I look forward to doing it again. And I'm sure we'll see each other underwater somewhere.

Tom Rowland: I hope so, George. Thank you. Thank you.

George Poveromo: Appreciate it. Alright. Take care.

Tom Rowland: That's George Poveromo. We'll be back with another awesome guest just like him. Well, not just like him. George is a legend. There's only one George Poveromo. So we'll be back with another great guest next week. See you.