Sergeant Major (retired) Jamey Caldwell spent more than 21 years in U.S. Army Special Operations — seven years in the 75th Ranger Regiment and then fourteen as a tier one operator in a Special Missions Unit — before becoming a professional bass angler and the founder of the tactical training company One Minute Out. He deployed to combat 14 times, ran well over 500 missions, and today teaches rifle, pistol, and night vision to law enforcement, government agencies, and civilians. In this episode he walks me through that whole arc, and goes deep on the night vision and thermal knowledge that kept him alive overseas.
Watch above, or listen to the full episode here.
Jamey Caldwell is a retired U.S. Army Sergeant Major who spent his entire 21-plus-year career in Special Operations — seven years in the 75th Ranger Regiment, then fourteen as a tier one operator in a Special Missions Unit. He deployed to combat 14 times across Bosnia, Iraq, Afghanistan, and elsewhere, ran more than 500 missions, and earned three awards for valor. Today he is a professional bass angler and the owner of One Minute Out, a tactical training company.
One Minute Out is Jamey Caldwell's tactical training company. It teaches rifle, pistol, and night vision courses to law enforcement, government agencies, and civilians, drawing directly on the years Jamey spent operating at night in combat. The name comes from the call given one minute before hitting a target — a reminder to live and train with that same level of readiness. You can find the courses at 1minuteout.com.
Night vision amplifies the small amount of ambient light already present, which makes it excellent for identifying what you are looking at and for navigating. Thermal reads heat instead of light, which makes it excellent for detecting a person or animal that ambient light alone would never reveal. Jamey's point in this episode is that the two are complementary, not interchangeable — thermal finds, night vision identifies — and the operators who understand both have a real edge.
Jamey tells the story of a night in Afghanistan when thermal picked up a man lying still in tall grass with an AK — a threat that traditional light-amplifying night vision would very likely have missed entirely. It is the clearest example he gives of why detection and identification are two different problems, and why he now teaches thermal so seriously. He tells it far better than I can summarize, so listen to that stretch in the episode.
Jamey grew up fishing, and after his military career he leaned all the way into competitive bass fishing — working up through club and regional events into the FLW Series and BASS Opens, and picking up sponsors like Strike King and Lew's along the way. He describes it as chasing the dream: bass angler by day, tactical instructor by night. The parallels he draws between preparing for a tournament and preparing for a mission are a big part of why I wanted him on.
Through One Minute Out. Jamey travels the country teaching rifle, pistol, and night vision courses, with night vision being the class his students consistently find most valuable. Details and scheduling are at 1minuteout.com, and he is reachable through the site's contact page.
Jamey is on Instagram as @JCProAngler and @1MinuteOut, on YouTube, and on Facebook. His tactical training company lives at 1minuteout.com, where you can also book courses and reach him directly.
Jamey is one of those rare people whose two lives should not fit together and somehow do. He spent more than two decades as a tier one operator, deploying to combat 14 times, and then turned around and became a professional bass fisherman who also happens to be one of the most respected night vision instructors in the country. I wanted to understand how a person carries the discipline of one of those worlds into the other, and what he learned operating in the dark that the rest of us never get taught. Press play at the top to hear where we started.
Jamey grew up in a law-enforcement family in the Northeast and enlisted out of high school on a Ranger contract, which put him in the 75th Ranger Regiment down in Savannah. From there he tried out for a Special Missions Unit and spent the next fourteen years as a tier one operator, deploying again and again into some of the hardest environments in the world. What struck me was how matter-of-factly he describes a path most people cannot imagine surviving. How he thinks about that career now, with distance, is worth hearing him lay out in the episode.
The part of this conversation I keep thinking about is the night in Afghanistan when a thermal optic revealed a man hidden in tall grass with an AK — someone conventional night vision would have walked right past. Jamey uses that moment to explain the difference between detecting a threat and identifying it, and why the operators who master both live longer. It is the clearest, most concrete case I have heard for why this technology matters, and it is the reason he teaches it the way he does. He tells the whole story in the episode.
After retiring, Jamey built One Minute Out to pass on what he learned in the dark. He is candid that night vision is the class his students get the most out of, because it is the discipline most people have the least good information about — the tubes, the lasers, the thermal, the field of view, the way it all works together. He walks me through how he thinks about teaching something this technical to people who have never touched it. If you have ever been curious about NODs, this section alone is worth the listen.
The pivot to pro bass fishing is the part that makes people do a double take, and Jamey is honest that it was a real second career, not a hobby. He worked his way up into the FLW Series and BASS Opens, learned the sponsorship and travel grind, and found that the preparation, the pressure, and the problem-solving felt weirdly familiar. The way he connects the mindset of a tournament morning to the mindset before a mission is something I have not heard anyone else describe quite like this. He gets into it in the conversation.
What I really wanted from Jamey was the through-line — the thing that carries from 500 combat missions into a bass boat and into a classroom full of nervous students. His answer is about preparation removing fear, about controlling the controllable, and about the small habits that hold up when everything else falls apart. It is the kind of hard-won, unglamorous wisdom you only get from someone who has actually been tested. Listen to how he frames it near the end of the episode.
Yesterday's conversation with Jamey stuck with me more than most. It is not every day you talk to someone who has lived two lives this fully — one in the dark overseas, one on the water chasing a completely different kind of goal — and found the same discipline running through both.
What I appreciate most is that he has turned all of it into something he gives away: teaching civilians and law enforcement the skills that kept him and his teammates alive. That is a rare way to carry a career like his forward.
Watch or listen at the top, and go learn more about his courses at 1minuteout.com.
Jamey Caldwell · One Minute Out · 75th Ranger Regiment · U.S. Army Special Operations · FLW · BASS · Strike King · Lew's · Tom Rowland
Sergeant Major (retired) Jamey Caldwell served more than 21 years in the U.S. Army, his entire career in Special Operations — seven years in the 75th Ranger Regiment followed by fourteen as a tier one operator in a Special Missions Unit with a high operational tempo across Bosnia, Iraq, Afghanistan, and beyond. He deployed to combat 14 times, conducted well over 500 missions, and was awarded three medals for valor. Since retiring, he founded One Minute Out, a tactical training company teaching rifle, pistol, and night vision to law enforcement, government agencies, and civilians, and competes as a professional bass angler in the FLW Series and BASS Opens. Learn more at 1minuteout.com or follow @JCProAngler on Instagram.
Jamey Caldwell: And my first duty assignment was in Savannah, Georgia with first ranger battalion, And it was it was great. I absolutely loved it. I mean, that full special operations mission, airfield seizures, and, you know, jumping out of planes a bunch and, you know, getting to play with all the cool new toys and guns, and, you know, it was it was a great time. And while I was there, fishing wise, I mean, I still fished a ton, but that's really where I got the bug for bass fishing. You know, down south, bass fishing is huge in the Southeast. And, I ended up joining a couple bass clubs and started competing, you know, and it's being an adrenaline junkie, loving the outdoors, just, you know, being in special operations, just rolling all that now into fishing, where you're competing for money, you're racing your boats to the first spot, you know, you're trying to win a competition. I mean, all of it. That got me hooked. And, you know, I was doing both, you know, trying to trying to be the best soldier I could be in special operations, you know, and rank your unit at the time, and then competing in bass tournaments, and and then my eyes opening up to, you know, the whole bass side with, you know, these big tournaments and these big name guys and sponsors and, you know, all these fancy boats and equipment. So those passions just stayed with me. I'm Jamey Caldwell, and this is the Tom Rowland podcast.
Tom Rowland: Hey, everybody. Welcome to the podcast today. Got a great guest for us. Jamey Caldwell is a former special operations warrior and transitioned into the bass fishing world. He fishes a lot of different bass tournaments. And since then, he has started another tactical company called One Minute Out. Gonna talk to him today about a lot of things, including night vision. Jamey is one of the world's foremost experts on night vision. He spent a lot of time behind the night vision and the thermal, imagery. And, I got a lot of questions about it because I think there's some applications to fishing, certainly to navigation, and, no better no better person to ask than Jamey. So stand by for a cool conversation with a cool guy, Jamey Caldwell. Jamey, what's going on, man?
Jamey Caldwell: Not much, Tom. How are you doing today?
Tom Rowland: I'm doing great. I'm glad we could finally get this to get going on. The Ranger Angler, he, got me your your information and and suggested you as a guest, and I had been following you for a while anyway. So I wanted to get you on. But you got an awesome story, man. You've, you've done a lot of incredible stuff. How did all that get started?
Jamey Caldwell: Gosh. Where to start? Well, I I guess I grew up in New England. I grew up fishing since I was a little kid. Just always had the bug for it. Loved it. But along with that, just always loved I mean, being in the outdoors and, you know, I guess, kinda playing cops and robbers and playing army.
Tom Rowland: Mhmm.
Jamey Caldwell: The two of those were just always passions of mine. You know, my my dad was a cop for a long time. He retired, from law enforcement. My grandfather was in law enforcement. So, and another grandfather was in the military. So, I mean, always had that in, you know, in in and out of my life, growing up along with all the fishing. So I knew those were two things that I wanna continue pursuing, throughout my life. And as I got into high school, you know, I knew I wanted to join the military. And, you know, long story short, my I wanted to go into the navy. You know, at the time, the the seals were kind of, pretty prominent. You know, the Charlie Sheen movie had to come out, you know, and that and that weighed on me pretty big just liking that special ops mission that they were doing. And, that was kind of a path I I wanted to take. But luckily for me I mean, not luckily. I mean, nothing against the seals. They they are great. And now that I've been in, I've I've actually worked with them a bunch. But my sister was dating a guy who was a prior ranger, and he kinda was helping helped me along with my path. And, you know, he he steered me into going into the army, going getting locked in with a ranger contract. And then from there, you know, the doors are open. You go SDF. You could go, you know, other special operations units, whatever it may be. So that's the path that I took.
Jamey Caldwell: So I enlisted while I was in high school still my senior year. Got myself a ranger contract. And, you know, after graduation, I had my summer, and then I went in the military. And my first duty assignment was in Savannah, Georgia with first ranger battalion. And it was it was great. I absolutely loved it. I mean, that full special operations mission, airfield seizures, and, you know, jumping out of planes a bunch and, you know, getting to play with all the cool new toys and guns and, you know, it was it was a great time. And while I was there, fishing wise, I mean, I still fished a ton, but that's really where I got the bug for bass fishing. You know, down south, bass fishing is huge in the Southeast. And, I ended up joining a couple bass clubs and started competing, you know, and it's being an adrenaline junkie, loving the outdoors, just, you know, being in special operations, just rolling all that now into fishing where you're competing for money, you're racing your boats to the first spot, you know, you're trying to win a competition. I mean, all of it. That got me hooked. And, you know, I was doing both, you know, trying to trying to be the best soldier I could be in special operations, you know, Ranger unit at the time, and then competing in bass tournaments. And and then my eyes opening up to, you know, the whole bass side with, you know, these big tournaments and these big name guys and sponsors and, you know, all these fancy boats and equipment. So those passions just stayed with me and, ended up, you know, buying a boat, competing in some tournaments. And then in about '99 or so, I I felt like I was kinda hitting the peak of my time in Ranger regiment, you know, just with what I could do, the advancements and things. And, I wanted to do more. So, you know, I knew of some other organizations that were out there, another special operations unit, that's at Fort Bragg. So I tried out for that unit, made it, moved to Fort Bragg in 2000, and kinda thought my fishing was gonna get put on the back burner. You know, I knew I'd be pretty busy with training and and this whole new special operations mission. So when I got there, that was kinda it. I mean, my first year was was a lot of training and and learning what my new job was gonna entail and very intense. And then, once I got settled into my team, ended up meeting a guy who was just like me, had the bug for bass fishing, was fishing tournaments, and him and I hit it off. We still fish today, you know, together some. Great guy. And, I got back into it. And, you know, I started fishing tournaments again. I was fishing with him a bunch. Then, of course, nine eleven happened, and then, you know, work took over. It was it was deployment, deployment, deployment. I mean, I we were doing a lot of deployments, a lot of training in between deployments. So, I mean, overall, the whole global war on terror I mean, I did 14 combat deployments. So between Bosnia, Afghanistan, Iraq, couple other places in the world. You know, I was I was pretty busy with that, but still had the passion for fishing, but still trying to pursue it. You know, it was hard to be competitive at a tournament level, when you're not home. So I I did what I could, but it was probably towards towards the end of my career, you know, getting close to twenty years when I knew that my deployments and stuff were slowing down, as I finished, you know, some of my team leader time and and got into a little bit more of an admin position as I got higher in rank, I picked it back up. And and I was actually I mean, that's when I started professionally fishing and and thought, hey. I could I could make a career of this. And, you know, continued starting fishing the bass opens and trying to qualify for the elites and, you know, doing all that while I was still active duty in special operations. It was Wow. It was a lot to juggle. Yeah. It was it was
Tom Rowland: How does that how does that work? Like, I mean, it seems like the the the other the real job is so demanding. And, I mean, do you have time off, or do you do you kinda cycle, like, you know, you're you're super busy and then you have, like, a downtime that you can be fishing? Or how did that work?
Jamey Caldwell: Yeah. It's, you're busy all the time, but when we'd come back from a deployment, we we do have cycles. So there are certain month period throughout the year where, okay, we're in this type of a cycle. So, you know, we're training really hard because we're getting ready to, you know, deploy. And then after we would deploy, we'd come home, and we'd, you know, we'd have some good off time because it's you know, we did a good stint of training, so we are gone a bunch. And then, of course, we deployed, so we were gone for months at a time. But then when we got home, we had some a a lot of good downtime. And and if we weren't off training somewhere, you know, the focus was, hey. Focus on family. Focus on being at home and, you know, don't come into work. Or if you do come into work, then, you know, go home as quick as you can. So that's those are the times that I really could put forth more effort into the fishing side.
Tom Rowland: Yeah. And and you started to develop some sponsors and and, and we're planning on on that. That was your your road. Right?
Jamey Caldwell: Yeah. That was my retirement plan. I mean, I I saw it I saw it early, so I started gathering up sponsors. But, I mean, at that time, you know, this is now, you know, 2012, I think, was the first year I started fishing the opens. And, I'd already had some sponsors prior to that. So I I started early trying to get sponsors. Luckily, I had some good contacts in the industry and, you know, made once you you know the deal, once you make, you know, a good contact and, you know, you're working for that company and and you're showing your worth, I mean, they the word spreads, you know, and they're happy to introduce you to another company and another company. So I was very blessed, very fortunate, on the sponsorship side and, you know, had some really good backing, some great companies, still some great companies I'm still with today, and and just continued with that as the retirement plan. Yeah. It was pretty cool.
Tom Rowland: Yeah. And so what about, now? Are you fishing in in what what tournaments do you fish in now?
Jamey Caldwell: So this year, I kinda bounce around each year, just because of my tactical training company that I had started up. But, this year, I'm fishing FLW series and bass opens. So I I kinda look at each schedule every year and see what's gonna fit with my training schedule, with my tactical company, and and then kinda pick and choose what I'm gonna fish.
Tom Rowland: Mhmm. So I gotta ask, man. You're you're, you're involved in in, like, the most competitive environment, I think. I mean, from what I know about what you were doing, it's the most competitive environment. It's it's literally life or death every day, and you finish that and you move to bass fishing. What, like, what is that like? Is that just like the breath of fresh air and you're just like, okay, well, no one shooting at me right now. That's that's awesome. I mean, what is that like? Like when you when you move into when you move into civilian life and into something like like bass fishing that some people are gonna consider that to be super stressful and super hardcore, and and it is, but not coming from where you were.
Jamey Caldwell: Yeah. It's weird because, fishing for me is is a couple different things. One, it's, it's my therapy, if that makes sense. You know, all the deployments, all the the heavy stress like you talked about, you know, being at, you know, the the tip of the spear on the military side, it's so demanding that you have to have something to, you know, to calm yourself, basically. So the days that I can just go out and fish, you know, non non tournament days, even practice days, you know, are are very calming for me. It's it's nice just to be out there on the water. It's very peaceful just be in the outdoors and, you know, make my own decisions at my own pace and and just enjoy it. But, really, what's the other side of what bass fishing is for me is, you know, when you leave that type of a job, a lot of guys go stir crazy because you're going at a 100 miles an hour. You're you're always switched on. Your brain is ready. I mean, you're looking over your shoulder constantly. You know, you're you're used to people shooting at you and, you know, I mean, not wanting you there. You know? I mean, you're you're just always you're always on edge, and you still have to have something. You can't just shut that off because you you know, I did it for twenty one years. So the the tournament side of it really keeps that going because, you know, as you know, when you're in any type of a competition, you know, you're out there fishing for money or or whatever, you know, in competing against others, you know, that's that's kinda my combat now. You know what I mean? That's that's where I'm able to out there and try to outsmart these fish or outsmart my competitors and, you know, make the right decisions, make them quick, make them in a timely manner, you know, and and win, you know, be effective just like I was on the battlefield.
Tom Rowland: So fishing was was that for you? What what is it for other people? Like, I mean, do do people just have all kinds of different things that they have to transition to coming from your background there? Like, when other guys are getting out, are they, I mean, like, what kind of things do they get into?
Jamey Caldwell: Yeah. It's it's interesting because, I mean, that place is so, I say, well rounded that, you know, you got guys from so many different places, backgrounds. I mean, a good buddy of mine that was there, he he races, motorcycles, competitively. I mean, and he's unbelievable. I mean, every time he goes, he's in the top three, you know, every race, but I mean, he, you know, sponsors the whole nine. He races, I've got, you know, another buddy that races and has won the Baja one thousand. You know, so we're, we're still very, very driven to do things. You know, some guys are just they, you know, they start a business. I was just talking prior to this with a buddy of mine, ran into him at the post office. Hobo Ford, you know, Jason is a good buddy of mine, and he's making knives. You know, he's been very successful with it, but he's, you know, he's a blacksmith, been a blacksmith while he was in. And now he's hammering out and making these, you know, phenomenal knives that he's able to sell, you know, now and and do his business. So guys stay busy, but I I do see a lot of guys that I was in with that, you know, don't find something, and they're the ones struggling, you know, and and and you gotta reach out and help them to get across that hurdle. Because if you leave a job like that, you know, going as as hard as we were going and, you know, for so long that you have to have something. If you don't, you you literally guys get out and I mean, that that's the stories you hear about. You know? It's it's guys that just can't deal with civilian life. Really, it it's hard.
Tom Rowland: Well, it's almost the same thing, you know, on a much much more tame scale of people that retire. And and they retire, they've worked all their their life, and they retire, and they don't have any plans afterwards. And it's kinda like, yeah, just sit around the house or whatever. And then, you know, a couple weeks later, they're, you know, they can't deal with it. And then you have other people that retire and they work harder than they've ever worked before because they have they have no pressure, you know, they're doing something that they truly love, you know, whether it's for their community or whatever, and and they go so hard into it. But part of that is coping with not having whatever it was that you had in your previous job, you know, like, like I think that you gotta have something. You gotta have something that Oh, you do. You can, kind of pour yourself into in some way, shape, or form. And coming from somebody like like all the people that you are around, that's the only way you can do that is pour yourself into it. You gotta be a 100% there or
Jamey Caldwell: Right.
Tom Rowland: A 100% somewhere else. And, and then when you just cut that off, that seems like a very difficult very difficult transition, unless you kinda did it kinda slowly like you. Like, you had kind of an idea, like, fishing. This is kinda what what it is. And then there's there's, like, a already, it's out there. Like, the bass tournaments exists. The sponsorship exists. Right. There's this whole industry out there, and then you just kinda slide right in. That's that's pretty cool.
Jamey Caldwell: Yeah. I'm I'm very fortunate to have that. Really am.
Tom Rowland: Yeah. So what about the tactical company? What's that? What's all that? That's, I looked it up. It's one minute out. That's a cool name.
Jamey Caldwell: Yes. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it took me a little bit to you know, I mean, I wanted obviously the right name, the right logo, put it all together, and and it's, when I I'm not gonna lie. When I got out, I wanted nothing to do with anything tactical. I mean, I I was I was burnt out. I mean, you know, 14 combat deployments, you know, since nine eleven was going just nonstop, and and I I needed a break. So I you know, right when I got out for for two years, I did nothing but fish. And I, you know, I fished bass. I fished FLW. I fished, the King Mackerel Trail, the the Mercury Pro Series. I mean, I was fishing anything and everything. Didn't matter. Saltwater, freshwater. I mean, I mean, I just I I wanted nothing to do with tactical. But while I was in, I I made a relationship with a company. So one of my last one of my last jobs, while I was still there, we have our own research and development section, which is which is very fortunate for us. We have our own budget to basically buy, you know, the best gear. We need to be out there because we've got the peak mission, so we need to be out there with the best gear. We have our own section there where we go out to industry, and if if something new doesn't exist, we'll make it. And, I was fortunate to link up with a company called Core Survival, and I was looking for a helmet strobe light. So we use you know, out there, we're we're using a a marking device on our helmet to mark ourselves, you know, so you know friendly against enemy in certain situations. And, you know, some of it's visible light that you can see, and then some of it is, is IR. So it's you can only see it with night vision. Right? The the light spectrum is beyond what your eyes can see. So I linked up with this company while I was in and developed a product with them that were, you know, like, the unit's still using today, and a lot of the military is using this product. So I continued that relationship after I got out and started working for them. Well, going to some different tactical shows working for that company, I was running into a lot of SWAT officers, you know, law enforcement guys, and they were they were looking for training. They, you know, they were starting to get night vision devices, and, you know, they didn't understand how to use them exactly. There just was that need out there, and I and I I kinda felt that calling. Like, look. I have all this experience with tactics, you know, with combat deployments, with night vision, and lasers, and and all this. And and these guys now who are, you know, I I look at as my as my brothers as far as all the friends I have in law enforcement. You know, my father was, my grandfather was. I'm like, look, I need to share this information. I I can't let all this lessons learned and everything I learned, you know, over all this time in the military just wither away. So that's when I, you know, was like, hey. You know, I probably need to start training guys. So come up with the idea, you know, hey. One minute out. I mean, one minute out. To me, the whole philosophy of one minute out is, you know, it's a cool name, but when we're going in on target, you know, we get these time hacks, you know, as we know. So you're you're flying in, getting ready to go, you know, deal with these bad guys or whatever. And, you know, you get that, like, one minute. Right? So when you get one minute from the crew chief, everybody's one minute. And that's that's kinda when you flip the switch. You know, for us, we're still kind of you know, we're we're in a foreign country. Anybody that's there, you know, bad guys don't want us there. We're flying over their houses. We're en route to, you know, to the Hornet's Nest, and we're still having a good time on the helicopter or the plane or whatever it is that we're flying in on. But when you get that one minute call, that's that's when you flip the switch. You know, that's when you fire you know, everything's firing at a 100%. Your senses are up. You're dialed in. You know, you've memorized the whole area on the ground, you know, from satellite imagery of of where you're going, what your target is, where your entry point is, you know, what you're doing. Everything is just done. You're you're ready to go. And that whole philosophy of one minute out, you know, when I come up with the logo is is, you know, it's a cool name, but I want people to see it and and just kinda think like, yeah. You know, live like you're one minute out. So don't, you know, don't wait until that moment to be at your best. You know, live like that all the time. Be be ready to go. You know? And it and it doesn't just pertain to the military. I mean, it's, you know, think about getting ready for a tournament. You know? You you've done your prep. You've done your homework. You you know, looking at satellite imagery, figuring out what the seasonal pattern is for the fish, and then, you know, you're getting ready to go. I mean, that's when you're one minute out, you you're ready. Whether you're going into a boardroom ready to give this brief to, you know, the presidents of the company or something, you're ready. You know? You you're getting ready to walk in and mail that presentation because you're you're ready. You know, you're one minute out. So just trying to live like that all the time. It's sort of philosophy behind it. But the training aspect, I mean, I I travel all over the country training a lot of law enforcement and, some other government agencies on night vision, tactics, you know, some close quarter stuff, some rifle pistol training. And it's it's going well. I mean, there's there's a big need out there. I mean, obviously, I have a, a unique background and and, you know, lots of experience. So it's it's good to get out there and and share that info.
Tom Rowland: Do you share info on the mindset, like, what you were just talking about about living your life that way? And is that part of it?
Jamey Caldwell: It it is. I mean, it's good to talk to these guys about all of that. I mean, I've I've been hit up to do a little bit of public speaking, you know, about it and kinda talk more on that philosophy of living like you're one minute out. You know, it's it's it's to me, it's it's definitely it's a lifestyle. You know? It's it's it's a way for people just to to get that extra little kick, you know, and be like, okay. Hey. Yeah. Let's, you know, live like I'm one minute out.
Tom Rowland: So as that goes, that's very interesting to me. You're you're, you know, that that seems to be something that really would apply to almost anyone. Like living, what what is that like if you were to apply that to just a general person? I mean, you mentioned the boardroom, you mentioned, you know, doing your homework and all of that stuff. But living one minute out, like, what what is that how does that apply to just your general business guy, your your dad, your your family guy? You know, how does how does that philosophy apply in daily life?
Jamey Caldwell: I mean, it's, it you know, it it's it's a little different for everybody, I guess, but, you know, you have to you have to dig it back into yourself, and you have to think of those situations where, you know, we we've all done it. We've, you know, we've we've slacked off a little or, you know, you're like, I I just, I've got this to do or that to do, and, well, maybe I'll put it off till tomorrow or, you know, just just procrastinating on things. You know? It's like, think about it. You know? Get dig you gotta dig down and and get that motivation, you know, to just get out there and and be your best. You know? Be your best at everything you do, and you're gonna succeed. You know? Don't let I mean, everybody's gonna fail. You're gonna fail at this. You're gonna fail at that, but don't let failure disappoint you. You know? Failure is just a lesson learned. Okay. I learned how not to do that. So let me do something different and get to where I need to go. You know? People that are successful in life and successful at, you know, business or, you know, fishing or military, I mean, it doesn't matter. Those people that are successful, they failed along the way, but they didn't give up. You know? They they continue to drive forward, continue to stay motivated, and and go for their goal. You know? That's it. And just just go after it. Give it your best. You know? Live like you're one minute out. Go for it.
Tom Rowland: That's awesome. I really like that. That's cool. I hadn't heard that, like, one minute out. I I I looked at your, at your tactical page, and I saw that right away. And that's that's exactly what I thought of. I'm like, man, that's that's pretty powerful, man. Like like, when they call, like, one minute to to the target or whatever, I mean, that's when, like, every, I guess, you know, it might be five minutes for somebody else or it might be might be two minutes for somebody else or thirty seconds for another guy, but but that's just like a super powerful kind of image of of that one minute out. And then then to bring that into your, to your regular life is that that could be very powerful for people. So are there any other lessons that that you learned through your career? Are you are you kind of were kind of foundations of of the way that you lived your life to to make it as far in the military as you did that that also apply to everyday life?
Jamey Caldwell: Yeah. I mean, you know, part of it is you you you can't do everything by yourself. You know, teamwork is huge. You you you've gotta have, you know, a good support team, but, you know, surround yourself. And and this is funny because somebody had just commented on something on my one minute out, like, Instagram page because I I had recently put up a quote or or something. It was a it was a cool picture. It was some training that we were doing where we were on a helicopter. It's a little bird and has, like it's a small helicopter. It has these bench seats that are on the outside of the helicopter. So you're sitting two guys on either side, literally outside of a helicopter, and we're inserting onto a moving train. So we're gonna assault this train. It's moving down the tracks, and these pilots are unbelievable from one sixtieth that fly us. I mean, they are the best in the world. And these guys have to come in on a moving train. They have to come in, pitch sideways, and stay above that train because they don't land on the train. So they hover above that train as it's going, and they're flying that thing sideways inches off the train so that we can get off the helo to insert in and do what we have to do. But there's no way we could do that without them and, you know, them being at their best, you know, doing their best that day. Because if if they're not at their best that day, I mean, it could be catastrophic. You know? So we have to rely on them. So there's a lot of times that you're gonna have to rely on others to get things done, but surround yourself with those that, you know, are the best at their job, you know, to make you better. And the the you know? And I'm sure you've seen it, and I learned it in, you know, on the fishing side was the more you can go fish with guys that are better than you Yeah. You're gonna learn so much more, and it's gonna make you better. So, you know, find those people around you, whether it's at your job or in life, you You know, those people that are motivating, that are, you know, that are that are good at this or that that you want to be better at. Surround yourself with those people, and and it'll bring you up to that next level and and help you, to excel and get better at life and and whatever the task is.
Tom Rowland: Yeah. There's a lot of you know, as I as I mature into more business, you know, like, I I try to run my my business better. And it's one of the things that, you know, early on, you kind of think, well, I've been doing all this stuff myself, so I just need somebody that can kinda do this. So immediately, you kinda look towards someone that can just do the job. And then as I've gotten older and wiser and more mature, I'm like, you know what? I want to be the I want to be the dumbest guy at my business. I want to be I want everyone here to be smarter than me, better than me, faster than me, you know, better communicate. I want everybody to be better than me. And and so then I start hiring that way of, you know, looking put the ego aside, find somebody that that can do what you do even better than you can do it. And, man Right. What a difference does that make? And, I would imagine in in the, in the circles that you were in, and that's that's I don't know. That's like going to the you know, all of a sudden, you're out of going out of high school into the NBA or something, and it's like, now everyone around you is, like, the best in the world. That's gotta bring bring the the performance way up, you know, when you're
Jamey Caldwell: It does. Yeah. It's it's amazing. And I I mean, a little story. So going through the initial training, I mean, once you get there, you still have to you know, every day, we we say, you know, I mean, every day is selection. You could you could be fired. It doesn't matter if you've been in that building for fourteen years, twenty years. There's been guys that have been fired after that long. You know, you you're never just good to go. You always have to perform, and you always, you know, have to do the right thing. But going through training, you know, you're you're there for eight months or so just in this training phase, and, you know, every day is a is is a cutting day where you could be let go. And, you know, I was I was one of the top performers on, like, one of our obstacle courses, but I knew I could be better. And I had a buddy who had been there, you know, about a year before me that was just excelled at bat. And, I mean, I I hit him up. You know? And then I'm just there's a lot of times that you, you know, you think you're the best, but there's always somebody better than you. You have to swallow that and say, okay. Hey. I need your help. You know? I wanna get better. What are you doing, you know, that's making you that much faster? Where where can I improve? And I spent a day with him, you know, him showing me little techniques. And, you you know, I mean, it it increased my time, you know, that much more just being able to get there with him.
Tom Rowland: So in an environment that seems as competitive as that, that person is willing to spend that kind of time with you and and show you those things even though that may mean that he gets cut?
Jamey Caldwell: It it's yeah. Because you're all there, you know, trying to get through it together. Yeah. You know, and and especially that caliber. You know, when you when you know, hey. That's a guy I wanna go to combat with. Mhmm. You know, I wanna be next to him when we're fighting, and he's, you know, hopefully thinking the same of you. And he's like, yeah, man. You know, you need some help here? Okay. Cool. Let me get you up to where you need to be, but, hey, I need some help from you here. So, you know, I mean, it's that whole teamwork aspect.
Tom Rowland: Yeah.
Jamey Caldwell: You know, you're you're helping each other out because it's just gonna make the both of you better and then overall make your team and your mission better.
Tom Rowland: Right. Do you find that that's kind of the same thing when you when you get into, let's just say the fishing world and you see the top performers in a competitive environment and most people don't ask them because they assume that they will not help them. But if you if you go to a top performer and you ask them a question, a straight question, no no beating around the bush, no gray area, Like, look, how are you doing what you're doing? Do you find that that the top performers help or or don't help?
Jamey Caldwell: You know what? It varies on the person. Yeah.
Tom Rowland: I mean, there's a personality trait there. Like, some people are real real standoffish on that, but I don't know. Not everybody.
Jamey Caldwell: Yeah. Not everybody. Definitely not. I would say I would say a majority of them will definitely tell you and, you know, whatever you need to know. It's but you yeah. You gotta do that. I mean, you just have to. And and I'll tell you, I do it. You know, when I go to one of my tournaments, you know, I'm fishing an open, and I get my teeth kicked in. You know, I just didn't figure it out. I didn't figure those fish out. You know? I've I've made tons of friends, you know, throughout fishing in the opens and the tour and everything that I'm not afraid. I'll go right up to one of my buddies and be like, hey, man. What did you do differently? You know? Here's what I did. Here's what I figured out. How did you catch better fish? Like, you know, where were they? Where, you know, what did you and and you learn. I mean, you have to you have to come away from everything with with some lessons learned or you're not gonna get better. So don't be afraid to ask. I mean, ask those guys. They're you know? Majority of them on the fishing side are definitely gonna let you know. You know what I mean? There's some that are like, oh, man. If I can tell you, you're taking money out of my pocket, you know, or you're learning some trick I might know. You know? And there's a few little tricks, and they may not tell you everything, but they're not gonna tell you anything if you don't ask.
Tom Rowland: Right. Yeah. They're definitely not gonna tell you anything if you don't ask. That's for
Jamey Caldwell: sure. Yep.
Tom Rowland: Having a computer glitch here. So on the night vision, you've trained with night vision so much. How how much has it changed since you first started training with night vision? The technology.
Jamey Caldwell: A lot. A lot. It's amazing to see, you know, what is out there now. It's, and the mode most of it's the the clarity. So when I when I first came in, I would say the the earliest generation night vision, that I used was like a a a gen two, but it was it was so green. It was like watching a green screen TV that just not we're not talking cable or anything. Some of you some that some of your viewers may not even understand this picture, but the white snow. Yeah. I mean, this is like, you know, old school black and white TV, you know, with rabbit ears where you just had all that snow on there. And, I mean, you could barely make out any. Now, I mean, I'm clearly seeing and identifying people, you know, hundreds yards out. I mean, it's just amazing. The clarity is great. You know, the the overall the overall, like, night vision tube, which is what brings in, like, a little bit of light and then it amplifies it inside the tube and projects it. That hasn't changed that much. You know, the tube size is about the same. The technology is almost the same, but they've been able to increase the clarity. And then, of course, we've now the latest is this white phosphor. So the the white is more of a, gray scale that you'll see, and it and it's a better for your eye. You can pick up, you know, contrast a little bit better with it. The clarity is better. So, you know, night vision has gone from the green that we're used to seeing Mhmm. To more of a gray scale now, of what you see.
Tom Rowland: So, like, you guys are getting the best of the best and the the latest and and testing out stuff that probably never even makes it to market, because you're determining that it's not good or whatever, that's a bad direction to go. How far behind is is the consumer night vision from, like, in all of these years, say you've been using night vision for twenty years, that that real grainy green, how long was it after you were using that until that's available on the consumer market? Is it, like, two years behind or three years, you know, kind of a lag?
Jamey Caldwell: It used to be a yeah. It used to be a lot further behind. But with, you know, with this since we've been at war since 2001 and the technology now has changed so much, you know, very rapidly, it's gotten more affordable. And and I would say on the civilian side, it was more or less, the affordability. So now it's it's pretty common, you know, for civilians to have really good night vision.
Tom Rowland: Mhmm.
Jamey Caldwell: You know, and you're talking I mean, if you want a really good set of night vision goggles, you know, like a a dual tube setup, which is better than just a single tube. I mean, around $10, you could have a really, really good set of night vision goggles that you could go out, you know, hunting with. Yeah.
Tom Rowland: And that's what most people are using it for, like, hog hunting and and stuff like that. Right? Or I get I guess or varmint, you know?
Jamey Caldwell: Yeah. Varmint. Yeah. Hog hunting. Coyote hunting. Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah.
Tom Rowland: But my interest is in night fishing. And, I mean, you know, we would go out and there's like two two schools of thought. One, I want every light on my boat off because every light that is on is taking away some of my night vision. So I don't want my running lights on. I don't want the GPS on. I don't want anything on. And when I turn all of that off, I can actually see the islands in the distance much better. I can see, you know, it looks like a dark silhouette rather than you got this bright, GPS shining right in your face. I can't see anything. You can, you know, the GPS is telling you where to go and you can follow that track. But, you know, if you really know your way around, it's better just to shut everything down, which, you know, the the coast I never did that, by the way, Mr. Coast Guard officer. I never, never actually ran without running lights. But, not just for running, but for fishing because so many of the fish that, well, the main fish is the tarpon. You know, the tarpon is a very, very nocturnal fish. And they're more active at night than they are in the day. We're catching them in the daytime, and it's really beautiful. And you can see them in super clear water, and and there's, like, this hunting aspect to it. But, really, if you wanna really catch them, it's at night. And, so I always thought one day the night vision technology is gonna get good enough and cheap enough to where it would make it like a real activity that you could do. Like, you could put night vision goggles on your clients and go fishing and not just, like, soaking a pinfish under a cork. You know? I mean, you can do that at night really easy. If you can just find the spot, you can go do that, and it's cool. But still, you're missing something because it's inky black everywhere you look. And it's cool because the tarpon are are eating crabs on the surface, and it sounds like a war out there. But, you know, you're you're still you're not, like, casting to a fish that you see. I wanna know when you think it would get cheap enough and good enough to where you could have three sets of these things so the guide could have one. Both clients could have a set, and then you could go out and actually see tarpon, like, coming down the beach and rolling because you would be able to see that they're coming out of the water. Right? You'd be able to see that with night vision goggles. Yeah.
Jamey Caldwell: Yep. Yeah. You would. It's when will it be cheap enough? Depends on depends on what you wanna put. Yeah. I mean, you can get so here's here, I would say, is the the biggest setback right now to what even the best technology that's out there is probably the the hardest factor for for some people to do or anybody if you were to throw it on clients or something is the field of view. So our human eye has about 200 degrees field of view. That that's our natural vision. When you throw either a single tube or a dual tube night vision goggle on, you're down to 40 degrees. So you go from seeing all of this down to kinda looking through two, you know, little tubes. So there's a lot more scanning, and there's a depth perception issue in there a little bit too that takes some getting used to. So, you know, it'll it'll be tricky, and some people would just get frustrated with it. But being able to see a fish and then target right to that fish and, you know, and and get the bait right in the area where you need to. But as far as the technology goes and and the affordability, I think when when digital night vision really makes the leap, and it's it's out there. I mean, I tested some digital night vision probably close to ten years ago. I've tested a set out, and that was kinda like the first introduction to a digital, you know, night vision setup. And and the picture's great. The technology is there. The biggest issue with digital is the refresh rate. So the human eye is about, like, a thousand hertz. So if we think of our TV that we look at, you know, everybody now has a HDTV or four k TV at their house. And most of our TVs, you know, are 240 hertz refresh rate. And when you're watching a good action movie, you can still see, like, a smear when they're looking somewhere, you know, and and panning. So now our human eye is about a thousand hertz refresh rate. The technology is just not there. So if you're looking straight through a digital night vision goggle or a night vision setup, and eventually, it'll just be in, like, a screen where you have a good wide field of view like we're used to. But if you're looking straight, it's fine. But as soon as you start trying to pan and, you know, you hear you hear that tarpon, you know, eating that crab over to your right and you you quickly look over there, you're gonna have this big smear until you lock in on it, and then the picture cleans up.
Tom Rowland: Mhmm.
Jamey Caldwell: So until that gets better, I mean, that's when the the cost will really come down is is once the digital gets out there, then there'll be a lot more advanced.
Tom Rowland: So will that look more like a a set of of VR goggles, what we see as VR goggles now? Or will it look like a set of sunglasses? Or what will what do you see that looking like?
Jamey Caldwell: Eventually, it's just gonna be like a pair of sunglasses. Geez. It's gonna be, yeah, it's gonna be on a screen that's nice and small and just right, you know, right in front of your eyes that that you'll be able to kinda see through and, you know, pick up pick up your night vision and everything with it.
Tom Rowland: Wow. And
Jamey Caldwell: And some of it's out there, it's just not ready yet.
Tom Rowland: Yeah. And so do those, like, the when it moves to digital, do they still kinda stick off of your your helmet or your your face, like, inches off of that? Then it's it's tight.
Jamey Caldwell: Yeah. It's right on it. And but you have to have so when it goes to digital, you still have to have, like, you know, the camera, basically, that's picking up the signal. It's just projecting it onto whatever screen, lens, you know, glass you have. The issue with our night vision goggles right now, why they, you know, stick out so far is inside of theirs where all the technology is. So that's where you have your night vision tube. That tube is the thing that it's an analog tube that's doing all the work. So it's gathering in, you know, one or two particles of light, and then it has to amplify it and make it
Tom Rowland: And so you have one of those in each eye right now?
Jamey Caldwell: Yes. And then
Tom Rowland: can you adjust that, like, to to the strength of your eye? Like, a lot of people have varying varying eye strength.
Jamey Caldwell: Yeah. So you yep. So you have, you have a, like, an objective focus out on the end just like you would a camera lens or something, and then you have what's called a diopter on the back end. And and depending on the goggle that you get, some of them have a diopter adjust so you can adjust for your correction right there, or they have these little to make it a little thinner, they have a lens, a diopter type lens where you can put a negative five or 10 or, you know, whatever, and you just pop the lens on for what you need.
Tom Rowland: So then then you so when you're, two questions, right, actually. When you have the the night vision that sticks off of your face, like, several inches and and I guess that's gotten smaller and smaller over the years because they used to be, like, really big. Like in Step Brothers when they had the when they had the night vision, it was, like, huge. Yeah. How does that affect, like, the the sight on the gun? Like, are you using special sights for the gun? Or what how does that work? Because that's, like, that's quite a bit off of your face.
Jamey Caldwell: Yeah. So it's, most of the time, what you wanna do when you're using night vision is we use a infrared laser.
Tom Rowland: Mhmm.
Jamey Caldwell: So there's a laser module that's on the weapon that use zero. So you have, like, your day sight, which is what you'd use normally to shoot, and then you have a laser that's on your weapon. So when you need to shoot at night, you don't have to look through any type of a sight. You just turn the laser on, and then the laser is zeroed
Tom Rowland: I gotcha.
Jamey Caldwell: So that you can engage. Yeah. That's the quickest.
Tom Rowland: Yeah. And so now we have this, technology on on a lot of boats now. I know you were running it on Arik's boat when you're doing, the the Kingfish tournaments. I know he had the FLIR cameras and stuff like that. So you have the FLIR cameras that are displaying on the on the GPS. For somebody that's gonna look seriously look into night vision like a Florida Keys guide or somebody that duck hunters that are, you know, this is their business. Like a duck hunter is a good example of somebody not in the fishing world that's going out at ridiculous hours. It's pitch black dark. They're in a swamp. There are logs and stuff. They they would be a good candidate, I think, for night vision. Like, you know, mostly, they're a good candidate for having a John boat and, like, a a motor that can hit a lot of stumps because that's usually the way it goes. But but, seriously, though, they could would they be able to navigate better? I mean, let's just say it's not a John boat. It's a bay boat or a or a skiff. Do you think someone like that would be able to navigate better with night vision goggles or with the FLIR setup on their boat?
Jamey Caldwell: It depends on the technology because the the thermal stuff, the the FLIR cameras are really good. I mean, they're almost giving you and there's a bunch of different, like, color palettes you can pull up on it to to increase it, and they're giving you a a really good picture. The biggest difference with the FLIR is you have you have a different light spectrum. So you're looking at heat. You're looking at thermal.
Tom Rowland: Mhmm.
Jamey Caldwell: So that spectrum is above regular, like, night vision. So to sum it up quickly, like, if you look at a chart, you have the lower frequencies are color. So you've got, like, your, you know, your blues. I mean, basically, like the rainbow. So your your blues, then it gets into your greens, and then you have, like, you know, your your reds are towards the tail end of it. And then that's where after red, that's where it gets into IR. So that's infrared, and that's what is beyond what our eye can see. That's the next spectrum of light that we're using our goggles for. Well, beyond that is, our thermal. So that's where the FLIR and and those cameras come into play. And there's I mean, I have a set of goggles that is both night vision Mhmm. And it has a thermal viewer in it. Yeah. That's awesome. Yes.
Tom Rowland: I would think that
Jamey Caldwell: you can have a thermal, yeah, thermal and night vision together, which is a a a whole another ball. I mean, I mean, a story I give in my classes. I'm I'm literally sitting here talking to you right now because thermal saved my life in combat. I mean, I'm the quick story of it was we it was Afghanistan. We came in on a target. You know, helicopters landing right, you know, right outside the house. So we're, hey. We're here. I mean, there was no doubt about it. We climb up, you know, and we're we're overwatching this this, big overgrown field. The grass was, like, four feet tall. I mean, it was just totally overgrown. And I'm standing on this wall. You know, I'm about 10 feet up in the air standing on a wall, and I'm backlit by the sky. I'm on the radio. I I started to hear some gunfire. One of the other teams is in contact, and, you know, I wanna move. I wanna go get in the fight. And I'm on the radio. I'm I'm I'm talking to my troop, sergeant major. I'm like, hey. We're here. We got nothing. Where do you need us? And, as I'm as I'm talking, I look down in the grass and through the thermal, I see just an outline of some heat. So I I quickly, like, you know, adjust the settings, you know, bring the thermal up even more, and it's just, you know, slow motion. There's somebody coming out of the grass with their AK pointed right at me. I mean, he had me dead to rights because I was backlit against the sky. I'm loud on my radio because I wanted to move. I thought we had nothing right there. He was hidden night vision. Couldn't see him because he was hidden in shadows. So you still have shadows with night vision. Because I had that thermal on, the thermal picked him up. It picked up that heat signature. And then as he popped out of the grass, I was able to get a cleaner picture of, hey. There's a guy. There's an AK. He's pointed right at me.
Tom Rowland: Wow.
Jamey Caldwell: You know? So there was I mean, that threat was right there, but just with night vision, I didn't even see him. So if it wasn't for that thermal, you know, having that additional capability, I never would have saw him. So going back to, like, the boat stuff, you know, I would say for for your average, you know, hunter, boater, whatever their situation may be, the first thing that they need to look at is, can I get to where I can I need to get to just by using white light? If they're not worried about spooking game or, you know, hey. Like, the ducks aren't even flying yet, so they can use white light to get where they need to get, then, yeah, save, you know, save yourself 3 to $10,000 because you don't need it. But for safety reasons, you know, if you don't have that ability or you can't use it and you're just going in the absolute dark, then then night vision, is gonna be your cheaper route, and that's gonna help you. I mean, you can pick up a single, like, you know, PBS 14. It's just a monocular. It goes over just one eye. You can pick those up for a couple grand, you know, and and have it on a little helmet mount or a little head harness, and and, yeah, it's gonna be great. You'll be able to see a lot more, get yourself to where you need to get to safely or quietly so you're not spooking the game. And then, you know, for those, like, you know, the FLIR, some of that stuff is great on the tournament scene because, you know, you're out there with multiple boats. You know, there are times that you're heading out because of the you can be at your first spot, you know, in in lines in or at, you know, 7AM or 6AM or whatever. So guys are going out at dark. So without radar or something to see those other boats, I mean, you you'll pick them up. Definitely pick them up a lot better with FLIR with that thermal because of the heat of the engines and the difference temperatures of all the environment around them between the sky, the water temperature, and then that boat and the bodies on there. It pops that much faster, you know, because you'll still have different shadows and and, you know, if it's a if it's a pitch dark night or environment, you know, night vision has to have some type of ambient light Mhmm. To amplify it in order for it to work. So if you're in a pitch dark room, you know, and I and I do this example in my classes to show the advantage of thermal, if you're in a pitch dark room, night vision won't do you any good, you know, because it has no other light. Now now if it you know, if the stars are out or the moon is out, great. But if it's, like, an overcast zero alum night, you're not gonna be seeing that much with, you know, with your night vision. And that's when you need what you know, we use those IR lasers. We also have IR pointers or, like, floodlights. So then you'd have to have these big you know, like, a lot of the saltwater boats and even the freshwater boats now have, like, rigid lights on them and, you know, these big spotlights, to light up. Well, you could have some of those in IR, and now they'll illuminate in that same spectrum and your yeah. And your night vision can see it. So now you've created that way.
Tom Rowland: Would it be if you weren't wearing night vision goggles, you wouldn't be able to see that.
Jamey Caldwell: Nope.
Tom Rowland: So nobody sees that running down the Right. Down the lake or or in the ocean. That's that's fascinating. I didn't know that that, I mean, I just don't know much about night vision, because I've thought seriously about getting it, but not that seriously, to where you're like, okay. Now you have this this floodlight out front. Because that's really the problem with my navigating is is I I don't like the lights. Like like Rich, he thinks totally different. He has this giant rigid light and he throws it out there. And I'm like, I don't know how you see anything, man. Like all I see is the white deck of the boat. I can't see anything in front of us. Marker way out there. I'm like, yeah, but there's a thousand things that could be in between that marker and us. I like to shut everything down and have no light and and use a red flashlight or or whatever so that, you know, if you if I have a headlamp, I use a red headlamp night vision. But, you know, the thought of of that big light going out there just I just can't see anything, you know, unless you're just, you know, idling around the of the marina or the harbor or something, you know, of course, you can see a boat in front of you. But that night vision, you know, the goggles, I think that that would be it would be of use. But, you know, you were mentioning, like, the average the average guy. The only people that are gonna want this are, like, the the extreme freaks out there. Either the guides, either the guides. We all know those guys. Yeah. Either the guides or the or the duck hunter that's like, okay, first lights at at, 05:45. So we're leaving at 11:30. And we make sure we're gonna get that spot. And it's like, you're going in the dark, and then we're gonna sit there for five hours. You know, maybe they can sleep in a little bit if they had some night vision. Yeah.
Jamey Caldwell: Yeah. Well, I I've been out there with Arik, and, you know, we're we're creeping out at, you know, two in the morning because, you know, you just you can be at your spot. There's lines in there at a certain time, but, you know, we're creeping out there so nobody sees us go. I mean, he's making sure nobody's following us. And, yeah, so being able to kind of stealthily, you know, get out there, but still safely be able to see everything around you and, you know, use technology to to do that. It's just
Tom Rowland: to be pretty, pretty funny for you as you're creeping out in this 39 foot yellow fin.
Jamey Caldwell: Yeah. It's like,
Tom Rowland: we're really not creeping out like anyone Yeah. Exactly. See us.
Jamey Caldwell: Yeah. Oh, yeah.
Tom Rowland: It's funny. Alright. So what about, what about your your tactical company? What's what's the future of that? What do you see the future of that being? Is that gonna be where you place your focus, or are you gonna go do more fishing, or what what do you see happening in the next couple of years?
Jamey Caldwell: You know, I don't know. I'm just kinda taking it as it happens. You know, with this whole COVID nineteen, I mean, I had, I've had six classes that I've had to cancel or reschedule just starting this year. So, you know, that that took a hit. But luckily, you know, I'm in North Carolina, so we're still able to get out and fish. So it's, you know, more of my focus has been on on fishing right now. But, I'm I'm actually leaving next week for Michigan. I'll be in Alpena, Michigan for a NVG class. Okay. So it's it's starting to kick back up, which is good.
Tom Rowland: So in the in the elite, military, COVID nineteen, what I mean, I'm sure that you're that those they're not shutting down. What what happens? Right? I mean, I don't know. This is something that I you're the first person that I thought might even have any sort of of of an idea of what happens there. But, I mean, like, what does happen during coronavirus?
Jamey Caldwell: Yeah. They it's I mean, it's totally new for them too. Yeah. So, you know, they they've had to make a lot of adjustments, but, you know, I guess what what I can say is, you know, they're they're still fully up and operational. They're just keeping distance. You know, I mean, you've gotta you know, there's certain guys that are on call. We always have guys that are on call ready to go. You know, if something happens in the world, you're ready to to leave within hours. You're you're you're on a plane. Gone. So that I mean, all of it's still happening. Everything's still operating, but, you know, it just kinda comes down to who are the essential people that need to be there. If you're not essential, you don't need to be there, then, hey. Take the time. Spend it with family. You know, I mean, we were just training all the time and gone, so you take advantage of okay. Spend some time.
Tom Rowland: What about just, like, the training? Like like, I just had a a couple of, my son's friends just went to ranger school, and they just graduated right before this happened. So, like, in the situation like that, are they postponing something like that or or like a like a sealed, you know, a BUDS class or something like that? Does that get postponed?
Jamey Caldwell: No. As far as I know and I've heard, everything for that is still up and going. You know, I I and I don't have the exact answer. I I haven't been I haven't been tracking, but I do know, like, what they what they have done or or my perception is probably they get those new students in, and they've gotta go into quarantine. So they keep everybody together. They monitor them for x amount of days, and then the class will kick off as normal. Yeah. You know, that's, you know, I guess, being a sergeant major, you know, I mean, that that would be my decision on how I would handle it is, you know, the training still needs to go on. We've we've gotta get recruits through. I mean, guys have obviously had contracts and are dates to come in and and get this stuff done. So if you're not canceling or postponing these courses, then, you know, you just have to be smart about it. So you get these guys in. You monitor them. You know, you don't really do anything. Let them do a little bit of PT and maintain some stuff. But then, you know, once everybody you know, everybody's been here. They're isolated. They're healthy. Okay. Then you can kick everything off as normal and just continue to monitor, you know, as the as the classes go on.
Tom Rowland: Yeah. Yeah. Because it certainly can't come to a halt. That's for sure.
Jamey Caldwell: Right.
Tom Rowland: But it does seem like everything's kinda opening. I mean, really, it seems it sounds seeing big big openings, and it seems like the the public is definitely ready for it. And their their, their memory, very short memory on,
Jamey Caldwell: like, like, his People don't like to be told what to do and to be told to stay in your house for too long.
Tom Rowland: No. But I mean, two weeks ago, man, you know, you wouldn't you'd you'd be walking towards somebody and they'd they walk 40 feet away from you and go in big now it's like everybody's forgotten about that. They're just right back to whatever.
Jamey Caldwell: Yep. I think everybody is ready to get back to life and, yeah, get back to some normalcy. I don't think it'll ever be normal again, but, you know, it's, and maybe it's, you know, I don't know. Maybe it's for the better. You just keep a little bit of distance, be a little bit more cautious on, you know, just personal personal health and space and
Tom Rowland: Yeah. I like the fact that people wash their hands more. I've always been a hand washer. Well, I haven't always been a hand washer. I was a hand washer when my, my kids were really little. And we were, you know, they would start getting around other kids and go into, you know, a mother's day out program or whatever. And it was like it was like a year where everybody in my family was was kinda sick. Like, we would get a cold or whatever, and then my wife would get it. And then I'd start feeling better, and then one of the kids would get it, and then the other kids would get it. And then, you know, it would kind of come back around. And and for about a year, it just wouldn't go away. Like, everybody was getting some little always had something going on until the kids got a little bit older. And then it's like, okay. Look. When you come in, wash your hands. And they were like, okay, we come in, we wash our hands. And you know what? It all went away. It all went away. And we all washed our hands. But when the kids got old enough to understand, like, okay, this is something we need to do, like, you wash your hands. And it all went away. It was amazing. And, after that, I was like, okay. Washing my hands. Like, pretty much
Jamey Caldwell: Yeah. Exactly.
Tom Rowland: Every time I got every time before I eat anything, you know, and then then, like, I don't eat in the airport. Like, it's just I just don't there's just too much Yeah. Stuff in there, but I don't know.
Jamey Caldwell: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Now everyone knows that. I found a product, and I no no sponsorship, no relation, no shameless plug here. This Combat one. And it's, it's like a guy I met. He's former military. He works for the company, and he's given me, you know, a bunch of product. I can give it away a lot of my classes, but, they make a product. I mean, it's kinda like a hand sanitizer. It's it's a foam, but it's, you know, it's an all natural product. It's no alcohol involved. It's gonna dry your skin out or, you know, any of that. But it actually, like, kills I mean, they've got FDA testing. It kills, like, Mercer virus and all this. I started using it, like, religiously. He he was at a, like shot show or something with us one year and he brought it and, you know, just you're, you're at all these trade shows, you know, you you're shaking people's hands, you're meeting people, you're in meetings. They, I mean, there's always a funk going on and everybody's sick afterwards. So he gave us some and just, you know, every throughout the day, you're just using it. And now, I mean, I've got one of my boat, one of my car, and then there's one of my wife's car. We've got them in the house, you know, just this foam cleaner. And I use it religiously. And I'm gonna tell you, I have not been sick or had a cold in, like, years. You know, it just all comes down to, you know, washing your hands. But, you know, you need something and just, you know, just being cautious of your hands being dirty because we all you know?
Tom Rowland: Product is all natural, because like my boys I was a wrestler, my boys are wrestlers and that was the thing, man, that you get this funk on you like ringworm or MRSA or all this Matt Yep. Matt born disgusting. It really is. It's full
Jamey Caldwell: of bacteria.
Tom Rowland: It's much better now. When I when I wrestled, they like to turn the heat up to like 110 and you know, and and then there were no fans in there. It was disgusting. Uh-huh. But now it's like all all nice and the lights and stuff are in there and it's, you know, the doors open occasionally and, they don't have super heaters in there. But still, lots of kids get that, all that matte born stuff. We were using that defense soap, which, is is a natural product too. But I don't know, like, I guess it's I guess it's okay to kill everything on your skin as long as if you think you're gonna get MRSA. I don't know if it's good to, like, use antibacterial soap all over your body. Yeah. I don't think it is. I think it's bad for you. Yeah. Like, really bad for you. But, anyway, that I'll check out that stuff, that that combat one.
Jamey Caldwell: Yeah. Combat one. Yeah. They make wipes. Like, it's a bath. I mean, a lot of, military I mean, we've got some, you know, the unit. But it's yeah. The foam, and then they've got these bath wipes. They're basically like big baby wipes, but you can you can take, like, a complete bath. You know, if you're in the field or something or on the boat, you know, all day long, I mean, you can just grab them and just kinda, you know, wipe yourself down, and they're nice, thick, big, you know, kinda baby wipes, and it has that same stuff in them. But it it's refreshing. Just clean yourself up. So, yeah, it's I mean, I use it I use it quite a bit. I've got them
Tom Rowland: on the phone. Totally sold out.
Jamey Caldwell: Yeah. They might be because of what's going on.
Tom Rowland: Yeah. There's probably not one in anywhere. I know. The military probably bought all the re remaining ones. So not gonna happen.
Jamey Caldwell: Yeah. I know. I know. I wish I got something out of it, but I he's a good dude. I mean, I it's a great product. Yeah. It's hey. If if check it out, definitely. I mean, I'm telling you it works.
Tom Rowland: So Yeah. So you can find it. Do you do does your tactical, company do do civilian courses?
Jamey Caldwell: I do some. I I you know, it depends. I mean, I I've got a private class coming up, next month. I've I've got a I have a civilian night vision class and a rifle pistol class in October in Texas. I don't do a lot of them, and it's, I mean, I'm busy enough with the law enforcement. I mean, I'm turning down some business on the law enforcement side just because it it's so busy that, you know, trying to find the time to do this civilian ones. You know, if I have to choose you know, I mean, nothing wrong with training civilians, but, you know, you just you don't know what you're gonna get.
Tom Rowland: Right.
Jamey Caldwell: You know, there's times you you get total drastic, you know, three gun shooters to somebody who's never even handled a weapon, you know, in a class, and that makes it very challenging. You know, it takes some take a lot more of your time than others, and I, you know, I like to keep my classes small. I have a lot of one on one time with each student, you know, to make sure they're getting, you know, a lot out of out of the class. But so I, you know, I do do them not that often. I mean, just check out my website, you know, 1minuteout.com. I've got my training courses up there. People can see where they're gonna be. I mean, anytime I get a new class, I'll I'll put it up there, so that people can sign up. But right now, the only one I've got that's open is, in Grandview, Texas, which is just South of Dallas, Fort Worth area in October. It's a multi night vision class for civilians and, advanced rifle pistol class. Both are two day classes that are going on in October for that.
Tom Rowland: Gotcha. Alright. So that's your tactical company. How do people follow you for bass fishing?
Jamey Caldwell: Bass fishing, mostly, you know, Instagram, Facebook, Jamey Caldwell. You can just Google, and you'll run across them. Or, you know, JC Proangler is my Instagram page. You can follow some of that. And I I kinda mix, you know, both. I mean, I I I probably put a little more effort on my one minute out page. It's the tactical stuff is growing a lot, so I'll I'll throw some fish and stuff on there too. But, yeah, I kinda mix them up a little bit and throw some on each one. But, yeah, one minute out and, JC Proangler.
Tom Rowland: Okay. Alright, man. Well, thanks so much for your time. I really appreciate it. It's fun to catch up with you, and I learned a ton about night vision, mostly that I probably need need a really nice set. And next time I have $10,000 laying around, I'll get I'll get a really cool set of it and and a floodlight that nobody can see. That sounds
Jamey Caldwell: awesome. Yep. No. It's been great.
Tom Rowland: Do you think the tarpon would see it?
Jamey Caldwell: You know, that's a good question. It'd be worth doing some research.
Tom Rowland: If you got all set up, you spent $20,000 on this floodlight and the thing, and you just look like a giant spotlight out there and no tarpon came.
Jamey Caldwell: Yeah. Yeah. It'd be interesting because I, you know, I've never done any research to see, like, what different light spectrum, because some animals can see, you know, a wider range of light than we can than the human eye. So that would be I guarantee you there's some studies.
Tom Rowland: I know who to ask. I had this, scientist on the podcast. Her name is Laurie Swichert. She was fantastic, and she's basically done, all of her work has been on fish vision, like, what a fish sees and how they see it. And and even, like, she's she's saying, like, fish can kind of see, you know, with their skin, you know, how a fish will will, you know, like a dolphin will get real colored. Like, they'll be go from blue to to, yellow. And then, you know, she's, like, done some studies where you lay them down on a certain, color and then they turn turn that color like a chameleon. And she's saying that they they have kinda, like, I don't know, seeing, like, in quotes with their skin a little bit. Pretty interesting stuff, but she was fascinating, man. She had incredible Yeah. Information. But that's a good question. I'll have to ask her if a tarpon can see on the on the infrared spectrum. Maybe that's why they're a good catch.
Jamey Caldwell: Yeah. I would definitely ask. And, you know, worst case, you, you know, you use the spotlight to get to the area, and then you go, you know, you go blacked out, and they're not gonna see anything from your night vision. I mean, you're just looking in that spectrum. So as long as you don't have any other spotlights or lasers or anything pointing in that that spectrum, then you can still, you know, creep in on them and, you know, you should
Tom Rowland: be here. New sport.
Jamey Caldwell: Yeah. It is. Let me know when you wanna go. I can set it up.
Tom Rowland: I'll go, man.
Jamey Caldwell: The night I'll bring the night vision and
Tom Rowland: Bring them There's my the boat. There's no better way to, to to get the new sport going than to actually try it and and see if it works.
Jamey Caldwell: That's it.
Tom Rowland: There's been a lot of things that I've tried like that that I I think are gonna just work so good, and they just don't. But that sounds that sounds like one that might that might. Alright, Jamey, man. Thanks a lot for your time, and and I appreciate it. You guys go follow him. Got some really cool stuff, and, and, we'll see you next week. Alright. Out.
Subscribe to get the latest episodes, show notes, and exclusive content delivered straight to your inbox.