Meko Glinton: Guiding Lefty Kreh and Surviving Hurricane Dorian

Full transcript of the Tom Rowland Podcast, Episode 363, Meko Glinton...

Meko Glinton: My wife sometimes believes I think like a fish. She used to tell me that years ago, and I had to accept the fact — you know, honey, I do think like a fish. You get to that point where you begin to think like the fish for real. You'll look at a flat and think, okay, something has to be working along that edge there. You didn't see anything. You didn't even see any feed. You just had that instinct that the fish is there. And a lot of times they are. And then a lot of times, you know, they are not. My name is Meko Glinton, and this is the Tom Rowland Podcast.

Introduction

Tom Rowland: What's up, everybody? We have a fantastic guest for you today. Meko Glinton is a Bahamian bonefish guide — a legendary bonefish guide in The Bahamas. He comes from the Pinder Glinton family. David Pinder Senior was one of the pioneers of bonefishing, really, in the world, certainly in The Bahamas, and there are so many more — David Junior and on down the line. Meko is a legit superstar in The Bahamas. He's a fantastic bonefish guide and beloved by his clients, and he's a really good guy. I enjoyed catching up with him. We talk about all kinds of things, including what he's doing now that he isn't currently guiding in The Bahamas because of Hurricane Dorian and because of COVID-19. So it was a great time to catch up with Meko. If you do know Meko, you're going to be very happy to see his smiling face, and if you don't know Meko, get ready, because this is a guy you're going to want to know. He has a tremendous amount of bonefish knowledge, and he's just an all-around great guy with a really good heart. So here we go with Meko Glinton. Meko, how are you doing, buddy?

Meko Glinton: I'm great, my man. I'm great. I'm excited to be on this podcast with you.

Tom Rowland: I'm excited to have you, man. You've got a lot of knowledge, and I'm hoping we can share it with my audience. I know my audience is familiar with you — some of them have fished with you, some have fished Grand Bahama and know your name or your reputation from fishing in The Bahamas. We also had Chris Dombrowski on to talk about "Body of Water," which was basically a history of your family, right?

Meko Glinton: Yes, definitely, especially my grandfather, David Senior, who's going to be so excited to know I've been on this podcast with you. He's going to be excited when I tell him.

A Third-Generation Bahamian Guide

Tom Rowland: That's great. Walk us through the history a little bit — of your family, and what a fishing family it is.

Meko Glinton: Well, I came from a background of anglers and fishermen. Even before my family got into sport fishing — which is bonefishing, permit, and tarpon — they were always fishermen. They grew up fishing. That's how my grandparents and great-grandparents made a living, by commercial fishing. Then David Senior got into sport fishing. Deep Water Cay, obviously, was established in 1958, and David Senior was one of the guys helping build Deep Water Cay while he guided — he was involved with it long before it even opened. I'm the oldest grandson of David Senior. My dad was a fisherman too, but in the sport-fishing arena like David Senior. I'm sort of the third generation of bonefishing guys in my family, and — you might know because of the amount of stuff I post — my twelve-year-old son, who is crazy about fishing too, would be the fourth generation. The Pinders are all my uncles. When you think about David Junior, Jeffrey, and my uncle Stanley — he's the founding guy of North Riding Point Club. He's retired now, though he'd be pissed if I said that; he hates that word. So my father, my grandfather, my uncles — they're all legends in this. I didn't study bonefishing in high school, and I say that because this industry is broad and spreading, and I've always had a desire to see the next generation pick it up. When I was in high school there was no such thing as bonefishing or fishing taught in school. I studied electrical installation instead, and I was good at it — in my mind that was my career path. The company I trained with liked me a lot; as soon as I graduated I had a job wiring up a hotel. But fishing was in my DNA, and as soon as I had the opportunity in 1996 to train at Deep Water Cay under Paul Adams, and trained a couple of days with Mervyn — Mervyn convinced me, even while I had the boat circling around instead of running straight, that I was going to be a hell of a guide. I was thinking, I feel stung right now because I can't even get this boat to go straight — but he saw something in me. That was the beginning of it, Tom. As soon as I got out on that boat, put the pole in my hand, and pushed it along the flat, I think that's when it happened. All those years of electrical installation, learning switches and three-ways — I threw all that out the window.

Tom Rowland: Well, you had such a great place — Deep Water Cay was a serious bonefish destination, with an influx of high-profile anglers, great guides with great reputations — so you found yourself in a position where you could really thrive and take off, plus you had uncles and granddads and everyone in your family from that guide background. Now I'm interested — when you got started, was everyone in your family helpful, or was there competition? I'd imagine everybody wants to get you started, but once you start fishing against them, it might be a different story.

Meko Glinton: Yeah — and what I like about your show is that I know you keep it real, I've seen some of your guests, so it's good that you mentioned that. There was one guy in particular — I'll say his name — David Junior. Inwardly, I was afraid of him, and I think inwardly he was afraid of me coming up. When I got into it, David Junior was the kind of guide that when you heard his name, you trembled — that's where he was in the industry. I think he was the uncle who was determined not to let this little young punk, as he'd call me, come and take over the scene. I remember fishing my first tournament, the Grand Bahama tournament, against David Junior. On the first flight, I was so nervous because he was in it, that I hopped in the bow, stripped the line, made three big strips, the line hooked around the reel, and I broke the whole fly line — that's how my tournament started. I knew it myself — I was just nervous and afraid. So it was great once I got started, but I'd say it was friendly competition. Me and my uncles — I was at Deep Water Cay, and they'd already moved to North Riding Point, so it was always Deep Water Cay against North Riding Point, but it was all friendly. There was definitely some competition in the family, for sure.

Tom Rowland: Yeah, that's bragging rights for sure, and that reputation spreads like wildfire around the world with all the anglers coming to The Bahamas — oh, let me go out and fish David Junior. No way, that didn't happen — and I'm sure all those anglers talking developed some good competition. But competition raises all ships — as there's more competition and you're trying to do a little better, your anglers benefit from it. I wonder, when it's competitive like that, how do you balance making sure your customers are having a good time, when not everybody's ready for a bonefish tournament with David Junior? How do you balance trying to bring in big numbers with someone who just needs work on their casting, and you're just going to go have a good day and catch a couple fish?

Meko Glinton: Right, Tom, that's a very good question. It took me some years to figure that out. I've been guiding — well, I hadn't guided in a while, obviously, but I've been guiding for maybe twenty-two, going on twenty-three years, and it took me a long time to figure out that once you put the angler first, a lot of that competitiveness goes out the window, because now you're not guide-minded, you're angler-minded. Every guide has that level of wanting to catch ten fish, and if you forget that you have an angler who can't cast yet, it gets frustrating. But once you say, this is about this angler on my boat, making sure they get better, learn as much as they can — I think that makes it easier. When it's just about the guide's own numbers, it turns into frustration: I want to leave the flat with ten fish, but we only have one, and it's three-thirty and we leave at four. So instead of being happy that he's casting forty feet instead of twenty, I'm still a little pissed that I'm only at one fish. I'm all about making sure the angler who's on my boat leaves a better angler than when they got on. That's one of the big things about my boat — obviously catching fish, but making sure my angler is a lot better. It's a good question for a lot of guys, because if we're not careful — for years I wasn't thinking like that. For years it was about, I need to beat David Junior. If he comes in with five fish, I need seven. And a lot of times you take that out on your angler.

Tom Rowland: It can certainly happen, because a guide who's very talented often wants to catch the fish way more than the angler does. It's more important to the guide to catch that fish than to the angler — the angler just wants to have a good time. I believe that's a big part of the maturation process of a guide. You've been guiding twenty-two years — probably in the first four or five you're just trying to match the other guides, maybe not even competing with David Junior yet, and then it's, okay, now I'm competing, I'm going to show everybody who's the best, and you forget about your angler and they're not having a good time. Eventually you mature to the place where your angler's having a great time and you're the top dog, right?

Meko Glinton: Right, right — but some of that top dog status comes from years of training those customers and getting them better and better, so each year they show up better, and a few years later they're having those big days.

Tom Rowland: Right, that's so true.

Putting the Angler First: The Meko Experience

Meko Glinton: I was messing around with something the last couple of years — I called it the Me Team. Obviously "Me" is the brand I've been working on for twenty-two years, and finally, a few years ago, I decided to put it out there — the Meko Experience. It's amazing how that name came about. Most of my anglers, when they leave my boat, say, Meko, I wasn't on a fishing trip — I had an experience with you. I heard that so much I thought, that's pretty cool, that these anglers say they had an experience rather than a trip. That's when I decided — Meko Experience, it sounds good — and I decided to brand it, which is why I have it on today. That's where the Me Team started too — I'm looking for people who love the sport, who are passionate about it, and once I get them on the flat, I can see they're having an experience, and I always say you're a part of the Me Team. I'd gladly accept you into the Me Team if you want to be. Anyway, Tom, I'm enjoying this conversation — I haven't done a sit-down like this in a while, and it's really cool.

Tom Rowland: That's awesome. So tell me the difference, in your opinion, between an experience and just a day of a guided trip.

Meko Glinton: The Meko Experience — I believe it starts even before you get on the water. It starts at the lodge, when you come down from breakfast and meet the guy holding the truck, and from there it starts. It starts early — for me it starts on my drive to work, fifteen minutes through beautiful green pine trees. I take advantage of that fifteen minutes — either I listen to nothing at all and just meditate, think, and be thankful for the day. So I try to set my day on the way to work, so that by the time I get there, if one of the guides has something crazy to say, I'm already mentally set. When my anglers come, we greet each other, talk about fishing for the day, and it starts from there. Once we get on the water it's like a change — I always tell people it's one Meko before I get to work, and another Meko altogether once I'm there. I think the experience has a lot to do with the whole thing, from the time I wake up on my drive to work, to greeting my anglers on the truck ride — we have some rough roads to get through to good fishing, but I try to make use of that time, talking about fishing, flies, what's going on. But really, the passion I have to see people become better anglers, I think that's what gives them the experience — because most of them, even though they've fished all around the world, don't have a lot of people that concerned about them becoming a better angler. I think that's the X-factor — the harder I help people become better than they were before they came. And it's not about, hey, are you getting paid extra for all that — because I've had that comment before, and I'm thinking, in the long run, I am. It's the whole deal, from the beginning of the morning to the end of the day. I'm normally the last one to leave, and some folks feel like I'm doing extra, but I'm not — I'm making sure I give a full day and give everything for that day. That's what makes the whole Meko Experience, in my opinion.

Tom Rowland: In my opinion, that's why you have such a good reputation — you're putting in those hours and paying attention to those details. One thing I want to talk to you about — I'd call you an instinctive guide. I hear this from other people who've fished with you, that you just seem to know where to go, even somewhere you've never stopped before, and then all of a sudden you just stop and say, we're going to fish here, and you see something I don't know. A lot of guides are like that — some are very much on the clock, we have to be at this particular flat on this particular tide, and we're not stopping to look at anything, and those guys can be very successful. But what I noticed about you is that you're more fluid — you're looking, and you're not afraid to stop. So let's talk about your philosophy on how you plan the day, what you're looking for, and how that might change with conditions.

Reading the Water Like a Fish

Meko Glinton: Well, I like to explore. The places most guides wouldn't go, I'd intentionally go check out, to see how the ground is and how the fish are moving and working along there. That's one reason I'd stop anywhere and check it out. And for some reason, poling a boat is fun for me. I know it can be exhausting, but poling is a technique, and it's fun too. Some guys try to avoid poling a lot because it's a lot of work, so they run more, but sometimes I'd pole, and when I'm poling I'm not just looking for the fish, I'm looking at the ground — the type of feed marks and that kind of detail. There are areas I know fish will be at with the high tide — everybody knows those spots too, because everyone figures that out eventually. But it's those areas you go and explore and find fish nobody else has explored, that's where you find fish the other guides don't know about. If you fish Grand Bahama enough, there are some places where even the anglers know — the minute they hit the island, let's go to Bushy Kaye at high tide, because they know there are two hundred fish there. But everyone else knows that too, and if you get there first, you can rip some lips. Other than that, it's the places I explore and research and find on my own that keep me on top of my game, because when guys are coming in with two fish, I'm coming in with five or six, or a couple of big ones. Those same areas the other guys refuse to explore and check out — I'm the one saying, you know what, I'm going to take half an hour and pole this flat and check it out.

Tom Rowland: Yeah, and there's a balance there — a guide has to be confident enough to take that half hour out of the day when you've caught nothing. It's eleven o'clock, you've caught nothing, and you're going to take thirty minutes to look at a place you've never looked at before. That takes a tremendous amount of confidence, because now it's noon and you still haven't caught anything — or you might catch something. How do you balance making sure you're catching fish with exploring, and when is a better time to explore? Sometimes when I was guiding I'd think, look, it's tough right now, the fishing is tough everywhere, so if I find a couple of fish in a new place, that probably means on a good day there's going to be a lot of fish there.

Meko Glinton: Yeah, you're right on. If you catch fish in a new spot on a tough day, on a good day there should be a lot more fish there. And again, Tom, that's where instinct comes in. I really believe the mature, really good guides operate on instinct — it's almost hard to explain. My wife sometimes believes I think like a fish, and I've had to accept the fact — I do think like a fish. You get to the point where you begin to think like the fish for real. You look at a flat and think, okay, something has to be working along that edge, and you didn't see anything, didn't even see any feed, but you had that instinct the fish were there. A lot of times they are, and a lot of times they're not. But it also depends on my angler — it determines a lot of how I make a move. If I know you can handle yourself, I'll take more risk, hit spots nobody's fished in five years. I'll throw you on my boat and go check that out.

Tom Rowland: I'm not sure that's a good thing.

Meko Glinton: Well — but with some other anglers, you know they really need to get a lot better, and you wouldn't take that kind of risk with them. You'd actually try to get to Bushy Kaye first and those other spots, because they have a better chance of hooking up. So the angler on your boat really plays a big role in how you make moves and what you decide to do.

Tom Rowland: What's your thought on communicating with the angler and letting them know — obviously you're going to get guys who love to explore, and "me and Meko found a new spot" is like a badge of honor they'd take home. How do you feel about telling them, this is a brand new spot, never been here — is that something you'd do, or do you hold that close to the vest?

Lost Off Moore's Island

Meko Glinton: I think that goes with the same thing — it depends on who the angler is. I'll share a story, because it's your audience and this helps make my point. I've been fishing with a guy for years, Stu Reese — he doesn't mind me saying his name. He was a homeowner at the Cay, really good guy. Actually, me and Stu Reese fished the Redbone Tournament in Islamorada in 2008, and I won that tournament. He was the guy that told me, Meko, your job is to teach me, help me become the best angler I can, and I'll just pay for us to fish wherever, and I said, sounds good. He decided it was time for us to fish a tournament together, which is how I ended up in that Islamorada tournament — great, because I won it. But I say this because me and him were fishing Moore's Island, Tom, and I was heading back to Grand Bahama from there. Back then we weren't using any devices — it was strictly, hey, the sun is up here, that's west, that's southeast, old school. So I normally know where I leave from when heading back to Grand Bahama, but he wanted to check another spot on the backside of Moore's Island I wasn't familiar with, and I said, hey, I'm with Stu Reese, we like to explore, let's go. So we went to the backside of Moore's Island, and when it was time to come home, I wasn't leaving from the exact spot I normally leave from — I thought we were at that point, but Moore's Island had another spot that looked the same. It was a nice smooth day, and I was heading back to Grand Bahama not realizing we'd left on a slightly off angle. I rode for about thirty minutes and didn't see any land — from experience, if you ride thirty minutes and don't pick up any land, something is wrong. At that point I knew. I said, let me go another ten minutes — I went ten more minutes, still nothing. I slowed down in the middle of nowhere, and he said, what's going on? I said, Reese, I've got to tell you this — I think we're lost. He was one of those guests I didn't mind saying that to, because of the relationship we had, but I wouldn't have done that with a lot of other anglers — I'd have tried to figure it out first. So I said all that to say, it depends on the angler. But let me finish so the audience knows what happened — I kept going, we'd missed Grand Bahama entirely because we didn't see it, so I knew we were off, and I kept going until we finally picked up land way off in the horizon. I said, okay, we're going there, and when we got there it turned out to be Abaco. I hopped up on my platform, grabbed my cell phone, got one bar, and thought, I guarantee you we're in Abaco, because if you miss Grand Bahama past Abaco, you're going to Europe — maybe you'd hit Bermuda, but otherwise you're going to Europe. So I said, this has to be Abaco. Once we got there we were all the way in Marsh Harbour, so we ran along the Abaco shore until I got to areas I was familiar with near Crown Haven, where you hop over to Grand Bahama, and my confidence built back up. We didn't get home until eight o'clock that night, but I stopped and fished a spot and we had an amazing hour of fishing — it wiped away all of that stress, for a while, until I got in and, I don't know who Stu Reese told, but the next morning all the guys were giving me crap about it. So I told that story, Tom, to say to the audience, it depends on the angler — I would've handled that completely differently with a new angler I didn't have that kind of relationship with. I never would've just said, hey, we're lost — I'd have worded it differently.

Tom Rowland: That's one of the things you don't want to hear, like a pilot saying uh-oh — you don't really want to hear your guide say, we're lost.

Meko Glinton: Yeah, you don't want to hear that.

Guiding Lefty Kreh

Tom Rowland: So, speaking of the anglers you've fished with — Grand Bahama, Deep Water Cay, and North Riding Point, places you've worked for a long time, have attracted a lot of famous anglers. I know you've fished with Lefty — haven't you fished with Lefty Kreh?

Meko Glinton: Oh my god.

Tom Rowland: What was that like? Lefty Kreh was such an incredible person — a great angler, but a funny guy. What do you remember about fishing with him?

Meko Glinton: Oh my god, yeah. Me and Lefty had a good relationship, and what gets me a little emotional talking about Lefty is how close he became with my son. I have a photo from a few years ago — this was the last time I saw Lefty, at ICAST here in Orlando. That's when Lefty wasn't moving around much anymore — he was at his booth, but not doing any casting. A few guys who knew our relationship said, hey, I'm going to take you to Lefty's booth, and I thought, he's going to freak out because my son is with me and he doesn't know that. When we snuck around to his booth, I don't know who the folks were he was talking to — I know they were important — but he just forgot he was talking to them the moment he saw me and my son. My son ran over to him, and I have this photo of my son sitting on Lefty's lap, with the biggest smile on Lefty's face, and me kneeling down next to my son, and every tear I had was just out because I was so happy to see that. That was my last moment, and my son's last moment, with Lefty — a few months afterward we found out he had passed away. That was my last memory with him, but I've had a lot of memories fishing with Lefty on the boat. One of the things we had in common — he was a teacher, man, a teacher by heart. Me and whoever else was fishing with him and me caught a lot of hell, because once Lefty got up, he was talking about casting — I'd give him crap about his casting, and he'd definitely give me crap about mine, and we always tried to help each other get better, always talking technique. That's one of the things I really loved about Lefty — besides being a hell of an angler with all the knowledge he had about fly fishing, I think he was a real teacher. He really wanted to see people get better, and that's something I've always held onto. But he was a funny guy too — he had jokes for days, and you never picked a joke fight with Lefty. I learned that the hard way — I messed around a couple of times because I like to say little things here and there, and you'd say one joke to Lefty and he'd hit you back with ten. I know one thing he told me that wasn't really a joke, because I use it in real life now — he said, Meko, I'm going to teach you something about marriage. I said, oh, I need that right now. He said, if you want a successful marriage, you just need to learn two words — "yes, ma'am." I've been married seventeen years now, and the more I learned to say yes, ma'am, the better it's gotten.

Tom Rowland: He's a wise man.

Meko Glinton: He's a wise man. But yeah, Lefty — I can't say enough about him. I cherish the time now more than ever, since he's not here, that I had the opportunity to spend with him on the boat. He was just an all-around guy — a really, really good person, a hell of an angler, and he loved to teach. I mean, he taught me a lot, even though I grew up in The Bahamas and fished all the time. I'll end with this — Lefty was a lot older than me, and when it came to casting, I always tried to knock him off his game. I'd wrap myself in the line and spin all the way around, and he hated when I did that — he'd say, oh sit down, you show-off. I remember many times, me and him just going at it, everyone doing well, and I'd say, okay, I'm going to take it up a notch — Lefty, you've got to check this out — and I'd wrap myself in the line, load the rod all the way up, and do this Michael Jackson spin, and before the line even landed I was out of the wrap, and he'd be like, what the hell, let me try that.

Tom Rowland: Believe me, he went home and tried it — he didn't try it on the boat, but he tried it at home. He was wondering if he could work it into his casting demonstration. He had some great ones, man — some great little demonstrations.

Fishing With Liam Neeson

Tom Rowland: What about some other people you've fished with?

Meko Glinton: Liam. Liam Neeson was a cool guy — from the movie "Taken." I showed someone just yesterday a photo of me and Liam at the Buccaneer and Bonefish show — someone had posted it and I screenshotted it and kept it in my phone. The person asked, what do you do, man, and I said, hey, I'm actually a fishing guide, and I showed them one of my clients, and he freaked out — he thought I'd photoshopped it. I said, no, that's a real photo. Liam Neeson was cool because I never dreamed, growing up as a kid, that I'd meet the people I've met, or have the relationships I have now — even Lefty. I never dreamed it. It's almost like when I go watch his movies, folks think I'm crazy, because he'll do something in the movie and I'll react, and they don't know that I personally know this dude, and if I ever said that, they'd think I was on drugs — think I was making it up. But when I first fished Liam Neeson — I don't know if you knew this, Tom — he had just gone through something crazy. He'd lost his wife.

Tom Rowland: Oh, no.

Meko Glinton: Yeah, he'd lost his wife a couple of years prior, on a skiing trip, and I met him at kind of a critical time. Given the type of person I am, and some of the other things I do — I minister to people, I'm there for people — we got a certain attachment, because I understood what he was going through and was sensitive to it. I was trying to give him the Meko Experience knowing he was going through a lot, so I always remembered that. We had an awesome time — I think I put Liam on his first bonefish on that trip. Whoever had rigged his gear, I don't know who or where, but he was having a really tough time casting all day, and I was working with him, and I don't like to take my angler's rod unless I have to, but toward the end of the day I decided I had to see what was going on. I took his rod, cast it, and couldn't cast the thing for anything. I stripped it in and looked at it — whoever rigged this rod put the fly line on backwards. He'd been trying to cast with the running line while the forward taper was way down in the back. I told him, sorry, you were trying to cast with the running line — and honestly, you did pretty good casting with it. Anyway, I switched the rod, and right away his casting got better because he was using the proper part of the line, and he got his first one or two bonefish with me.

A Guide's Ministry on the Flats

Meko Glinton: That's my experience with Liam, and I shared what he was going through because that's one of the things I've experienced over the years — people come on your boat and you don't always know what they're going through, but I've had opportunities to really be there for a few people. One guest was waiting for his brother to join the trip, and while we were fishing he got a call that his brother had passed away.

Tom Rowland: Oh, man.

Meko Glinton: He was waiting for his brother to come to Deep Water Cay, and he must have been a tough guy, because he didn't break down — didn't show much emotion. I was thinking, I've lost a brother too — I lost a younger brother on a boat trip, hadn't seen him in seventeen or eighteen years before that, and that was it. So I knew what it was to lose a brother, and this guy got the call on my boat and didn't react, and I kept thinking all day, this has got to be tough for him. So on the way in, I decided to pull back my throttle and slow the boat down. He looked back like, are we stopping at another spot? I said, no — I overheard the conversation, I know you lost your brother, and I know it's tough. I asked if I could hold his hand and just say a prayer with him. He started crying as soon as I said that — he didn't cry when we prayed, he cried the moment I asked. I knew right then that was the right thing, because I think he'd been holding it in all day, and as soon as I said it, he broke down. Those are just a few experiences, Tom, from my years of guiding — I wouldn't give any of that up for anything. Those are the things engraved in my memory that I always carry. Unfortunately, that man has passed on now too, and that's all I can hold onto — the memories I created with these people.

Tom Rowland: You've got a good heart, man — you can see it and feel it. A lot of times people who don't understand the sport don't understand the bond between an angler and a guide. A fishing guide can be far more than somebody who just points out fish to you — you've seen it, I've seen it when I visited you guys at North Riding Point, with Cole and everybody — this friendship and bond that's almost indescribable. You see this person once a year, but you're super close with them, and some of these people aren't afraid to tell their fishing guide something they wouldn't tell their best friend at home. You're out there in The Bahamas or the Florida Keys, you spend four or five days on the boat, and all of a sudden it just comes out and they start telling you stuff. Some guys are better at that than others, and with your ministry and everything you do on the side, it lends itself very well to that. You've got a good heart, you're a good friend to people, and I'm sure a lot of these anglers understand, instinctually, that you're a good person, so they're not afraid to tell you those things.

Meko Glinton: Right, right — I really appreciate that, Tom. For me, that's where ministry helped me realize it's broader than it's often portrayed as. I take advantage of my pulpit, which is the flat — some people's pulpit is a big building, but I feel like the flat is my arena, so I take advantage of those opportunities to reach people in my own way.

Hurricane Dorian, COVID-19, and an Uncertain Future

Tom Rowland: Well, that's cool. One of the things we obviously need to talk about is what's going on with you right now — you were just talking about ministering from your pulpit, the flats, and because of recent events, the hurricane and COVID, you're not there right now. Tell us where you are, what you're doing, and what's going on in The Bahamas.

Meko Glinton: Right, so since Hurricane Dorian, it's been crazy — for me and a lot of other people. I think this is the longest stretch I've been out of work, out of the flats, out of my pulpit, so to speak. It's been that way since Dorian. We actually went back to work a little in January, February, and into March — and then March came, COVID hit, and we shut down again. From March on it's just been no work, no flats fishing, so it's been extremely tough. Grand Bahama especially is tough for most of the people there, obviously, since so many are out of work. Some of the other Bahama islands are okay, but they're still having a hard time with COVID, because most of the United States and other countries are shut off from The Bahamas now, as you guys may know, and because tourism is such a big part of our economy, I think we're learning some crucial lessons about how much we depend on one particular thing. Now that everything is shut down, it's really difficult — you've got eighty percent of the people, and this is besides Grand Bahama and Abaco, which were already bruised and smashed by Hurricane Dorian — I'm talking about the rest of The Bahamas, just from the fact that tourists aren't coming in the way they used to. It's tough, because there are a lot of people without jobs, who don't know what they're going to do. I was fortunate enough, through some relationships over here in The States, to be able to bounce back and forth a little between Grand Bahama and The United States — mostly folks who love me and my family saying, hey, you know what, we've got to get you off that island for a couple of months. After September we were able to come to The States for a few months, just to catch our breath and get away from everything. That was great, but obviously all of those visits expire in time, and we went back home thinking, okay, work is going to start, we'll get back on our feet — and then COVID-19 hit, and it felt like we were back to square one. So in my mind, Tom, there's a lot going on, pertaining to the industry and what I could do, what I'd like to do. I'm taking a note from what we're doing today, which I think is so cool — to be able to connect like this, do online stuff, create a website, stay in contact with clients and friends, and even build new clients — new friends who, when the borders open back up, I could invite down to have this Meko Experience. So I'm thinking about a few things I can do in the meantime, because it's tough when you have a heart to guide and want to be out on the water, and you just can't — it's beyond me, beyond all of our control. I mean, the whole world is dealing with a pandemic, and it teaches you, when you're in that position, to ask yourself, what else have I got in me? It needs to come out now, because this is the time it needs to come out. We try to do as much as we can when we can, and that's always on my heart — not just how to help me and my family, but how I can help some of the other people around me who I know need help. So all of these things is what I've been thinking about for months and months — okay, Meko, what could you do? Just being able to connect like this and talk about it, to me, feels like one step closer.

Reimagining the Meko Experience Online

Tom Rowland: Well, for sure — and you get an idea of what's out there, what's available. I can't tell you how many guests we've had on this podcast who decided, this is a great medium, I'm going to start my own podcast, which you could do — you're great at it, you're a great talker, you've got tremendous stories and passion. It's hard to make any money at it, as I've found out so far, but it all takes creative thinking. You've got a lot of talent — you're a real talent on the back of the boat, a real talent with a fly rod in your hand. You could look at something like the golf industry, where somebody has their favorite golfer, and right now that golfer isn't playing tournaments because of COVID, so he's saying, I'm going to accept where I am, and I'm going to offer to have people send me videos of their swing and I'll help them with it. It costs whatever it costs, and they're doing it completely online, having a coaching session, communicating with their fans at a much deeper level — that fan is a fan for life. This guy helped me, put twenty yards on my drive, that's incredible. I think you could do the same thing with fly casting — offer for people to send you videos of their casting, and you could be a coach, and I know all your customers would pay for that.

Meko Glinton: Yeah, I think they would.

Tom Rowland: But that's just the first thought I had, and I'm probably thinking way too small, honestly — you could do whatever you want. In this day and age, with the internet and the technology we have, I think it's completely limitless, and it's just a matter of doing exactly what you're doing — you reach out to Chris Dombrowski, you're talking to him, you can reach out to me, and you just keep talking to people and it becomes clear. What'll become real clear is when travel opens back up and The Bahamas are back going and everybody's doing what they want to do — but I think you're dead-on that you can use this time to not only communicate with people who already know who you are, but cultivate a whole new tribe of people who want the Meko Experience — who want to learn how to do the Michael Jackson turn and catch a bonefish. You know what that usually results in, though — people do the turn and end up with two wraps of line around their feet, and end up either going in the water or breaking off the fish they just hooked. Not everybody can do it like Meko.

Meko Glinton: You're right — I had my trial-and-error time until I got it down.

Tom Rowland: Yeah, that's something you do out there by yourself in the boat while you're exploring — you don't want anybody to see the mishaps. So about the casting — tell me, I mean, you're obviously a phenomenal fly caster, that goes hand in hand with your reputation, and when you hold a rod and use it, it's very impressive. How did that happen — when did you first get a rod in your hand, as a kid? Did you steal one of your granddad's rods and take it down to the dock, or was it more like a rite of passage — here's the rod, go learn?

Stealing His Father's Fly Rod

Meko Glinton: It was more right in between. It was more like I stole the rod — it was my father's rod. I think I was probably twelve years old when I grabbed that fly rod. My dad loved to wade — he waded seventy percent of the time. Anyone who loves to get on the boat, walk, and wade, that's my dad. So it's something between stealing my dad's rod and a rite of passage. My dad loved to wade, and he'd take me on the flats with him. This one day he waded for a long time, way off, and I said I wasn't going, I'd stay in the boat — and he always brought an extra rod when he went out. Back then, Tom, rods were hard to come by — my dad would get rods when a client had one he wasn't using and wanted to give it to him, so my dad was very particular with his rods; you just didn't mess with his fly rods. Back in The Bahamas, in those days, they didn't shy away from putting the belt on you — that's just how we grew up, not so much anymore, but back then that's how it was. So anyway, he went out wading, out of sight, and I'm sitting in the boat. I'd never paid much attention to bonefish and the way they feed, and about ten bonefish came within thirty feet of the boat, tailing — digging and feeding. I looked down the flat and could barely see my dad; I looked in the boat and saw his rod. I couldn't resist — I took his rod out, stripped off a little line, figuring I'd do what I'd seen him do. I whipped the rod back and forth a little, dropped the fly out there, and before you could say anything, a bonefish was on and the reel was just screaming. I was excited and afraid at the same time — excited to have a bonefish on, afraid because I was using my dad's rod without asking. He was far enough away, Tom, that by the time I landed that fish and got it off, I was so excited I ran all the way down the flat to tell him I'd caught a bonefish on his fly rod. When I told him, I didn't feel the belt across my back or anything — that was the beginning of it. He was more excited for me at that moment than I was for myself. I really believe that was the defining moment for me — this is it, I'm going to use this rod for a long time. I didn't get whipped for using it; I guarantee you, if I'd used it and not caught anything, everybody would've gotten whipped that day. But he didn't whip me for it. That's how it started — I was twelve years old, running to him just to let him know I'd caught a fish, and he was happy instead of upset. That was, for me, the beginning of me and fly casting — from then on I just wanted to get better and better at it, so I wasn't spinning line everywhere trying to cast with no rod. I do things to keep myself sharp, keep me going — I hadn't cast in a while before this interview, but it's like riding a bike.

Tom Rowland: Something tells me you're going to be okay. So you have a young son now — have you noticed a defining moment like that with him, or has it always been that way?

Raising the Next Generation

Meko Glinton: It's always been that way. When he was little, I had one of those eye-carry things you put on, and I'd go down along the beach with my fly rod, and he'd be hanging out while I was casting near him. At that age he was just sort of around it — the only thing I'd do is when I caught a bonefish I'd hold it up in front of him, and a couple of times he tried to put it in his mouth like he wanted to eat it. I'd say, hey, you can't eat that. He was around it for a while, but for me, watching my son at the last ICAST here in Orlando — my son was there, and he cast in the casting pool. For him, he didn't have a clue what that meant to me — I was freaking out, thinking, at age twelve I was sneaking a fish with my dad, and here he is at age twelve casting at the ICAST fishing show in front of hundreds of people. Watching him as a son, I probably stole a bit of that moment from him inwardly, because I was so proud — I'm thinking, he doesn't know what's happening, looking at all these brand names around this pool and not having a clue who they are. But I watched my son shoot about fifty-five feet of line doing a double haul — it's on YouTube, by the way, Tom, you can go find some of his video. Anyway, I thought that was a defining moment for me. My son just loves the outdoors — he loves to fish, loves to go, and when I get him out on the boat he never wants to leave — it's always one more spot, one more fish. That's the type of kid he is; he loves it, and I think, just like me, it's in his DNA. Of course he'll try other things, go to school and do what he has to do, but I can almost guarantee you it's there — if I told him to leave school and just stay on the boat, he'd say okay, daddy, I'm not even going to think twice, though obviously I wouldn't do that. He started fly casting when he was four — tied his first fly at four years old. I liked it so much he submitted it to Orvis — you know, Orvis sells my flies — and they loved that it was tied by a four-year-old, though they said they already had a similar fly so they couldn't use it, but told him to keep tying because he'd come up with something one day. So at age four he'd already submitted a fly to Orvis and started fly casting — he started a lot earlier than I did. I started at twelve; he started at three and four. He's a little beast when it comes to the flats and to fishing — he loves it, he's crazy about it.

Tom Rowland: Well, one more thing about the Pinder Glinton guide dynasty — are there any other young people making their way up in it?

Meko Glinton: No, not really.

Tom Rowland: It could be anybody — I don't know why I said young males, girls can guide too.

Growing Bahamian Guides for the Future

Meko Glinton: Yeah, you know, there are a couple of ladies on Grand Bahama I think have the potential to be great guides. I think, Tom, this brings us to where I believe the industry needs to be when it comes to the next generation. I truly believe we still have a lot of good guides in this generation, but when it comes to the next one, I think it's going to be a little lacking in great guides in The Bahamas, because there aren't a whole lot of young guys like my son — he's rare, because it's in his blood, and he's crazy about it. There aren't a lot of other kids into it, Tom, and I think that's what brings me to one of my passions — to take the wealth of knowledge I have in this industry and figure out a way to transfer it to the next generation. That's one of the things I want to do before I hang it up — help transfer this wealth of knowledge over to the next generation. That's going to be so crucial.

Tom Rowland: Well, when we started this conversation, you said you didn't study bonefishing in school. I almost asked this at the beginning — is that something you could study in school in The Bahamas now? Could you create even one class to let kids know this is an opportunity, and there's a chance to make a lot of money here, and this is how you'd get started, and put them on that road? I'm sure that would be a possibility, right?

Meko Glinton: Yeah, Tom, you're right about it. It's not in the schools yet. I've tried a little bit with the Ministry of Tourism, and they were dealing with the Ministry of Education, but they were sort of channeling it through me — they had a fishing conference and had me as one of the keynote speakers, talking about the vision of really having this in the schools. That was good for the moment, and then that's a whole different world I'm not in, when it comes to the politics, but it was good for the moment, Tom. It had a big height and then it sort of dwindled away. I wasn't the person in charge — I was just the person they were using to get the message out there. What I believe is that the government has a lot to deal with, a lot going on, and when it's like that, certain things aren't top of mind. But from some of the things I'm trying to establish, I think I could create an avenue for that to happen — maybe a fly-fishing school or a fly-fishing class, something where kids can come to the Meko whatever it would be called, and between me and other professional guys I know — David Junior, my dad, even David Senior, who's still alive — I have a lot of people around me with a lot of knowledge. I'm also involved with Bonefish and Tarpon Trust — they made my son a youth ambassador last October, for BTT. So I have a relationship with all those guys, and to create something that covers the whole scale of fly fishing, you need all those different components — you need BTT, you need to know about the environment, you need to know about everything, and I believe I have people around me willing to say, if you're going to do this, we're willing to come in and help. I'm glad we're talking about this, because for me it's really important. For the government I think it is too, but they have a lot of stuff they're focused on, and this is probably way down the line for them.

Tom Rowland: It seems like I'm a little confused why there might not be a lot of young kids interested in fishing, since guides in The Bahamas are really important people and you make a lot of money — it seems like you'd almost need to be born into it, like your son, rather than just anyone being able to work their way into being a guide. Where would you even get a fly rod, or all this other stuff? But why do you think not a lot of kids are involved right now?

Meko Glinton: Yeah, I don't think they have the knowledge of it. I think they look at someone like myself and say, hey, he's doing great, he's been able to take care of his family and have a good life. I think most of the kids in the outer settlements, like McLean's Town and those small towns where we grew up fishing, are the ones who get into it more. Once you get into the city part of it, they're a little more clueless about it — it's just a lack of knowledge in that area. If someone were sending me around, saying, Meko, once a month I want you to go to each school and talk to a classroom full of kids, share about how you know Liam Neeson and Michael Keaton and all that — just by knowing that, it causes them to say, let me listen to this young man, let me see what's going on. I think even something as simple as that, Tom, they haven't done yet. I'm wondering, do I keep waiting for them to do it, or do I create an avenue myself, just like we're doing now, and talk about it.

Tom Rowland: Yeah, well, you've got so many great talents and so many good ideas, and I have no doubt it's all going to become clear for you, and you'll know exactly what to do. I tell you what — when you do, we'll do as many more podcasts as we can to help explain it to people, because you're an awesome guest and I'd love to help you out any way I can.

Where to Find Meko

Tom Rowland: But Meko, as far as right now goes, how could people follow you? How could they learn more about you, and how could they support anything you're doing?

Meko Glinton: Yeah, so most of my interaction is on Facebook — Meko Glinton on Facebook, so you can find me there. I'm on Instagram also, where I post a lot of photos and try to update people — I think it's Meko1234 on Instagram. And if they want to email me, they can reach me at okemo7@hotmail.com. Once I get my website completed I'll definitely put that information out there — the website will be great, because I'll be able to put everything I'm doing on it, and people will be able to go there and get all the information they need. So that's where they can find me for now, until I continue to build.

Tom Rowland: Okay, alright — well, it sounds good, Meko. Thank you so much for your time today. You've got some great stories, and it's just good to reconnect with you. If I can do anything for you, let me know — you have a lot of people on this podcast who would love to support you, so let us know what you're doing.

Meko Glinton: Alright, thank you so much, Tom. I want to say thanks to you again for doing this, for catching up like this. Yeah, I'm open anytime — obviously you could tell I'm comfortable, you're a good host, so I'm good.

Tom Rowland: I appreciate it, Meko. Alright, we'll see you later. Next week we'll have another great guest just like Meko Glinton right here. See you.

Meko Glinton: Yes, alright, see you later.