Tom Rowland Podcast Episode 830 is my conversation with Drew Chicone, an expert saltwater fly designer, author, and former tennis pro. We get into how he actually develops fly patterns, the coveted rooster capes he inherited from his father, why he leans on big spawning-style shrimp and gurgler patterns he can impart movement to, the crab-fly presentation that drops to the bottom in front of a spooky fish, and the writing discipline behind his books and step-by-step tying content.
▶ Watch on YouTube · 🎧 Listen now
Drew Chicone is an expert saltwater fly designer and author who has spent decades developing patterns for species like bonefish, snook, and redfish. He writes books and produces step-by-step tying content, often building patterns to fill gaps where no good instructions exist. A former tennis pro, he approaches fly design as a craft — part art, part science, and a lot of time on the water watching how fish actually eat.
Drew works backward from need. He identifies a gap — a handful of really good redfish, snook, or bonefish patterns for a specific place like Texas, Andros, or Abaco — and drills down from there. He spends most of his time perfecting flies, and he pays close attention to how fish respond, designing patterns he can impart different movement to when a fish is not reacting the way he wants.
He likes a big spawning-style shrimp he can animate with movement rather than just letting it fall to the bottom, and he is drawn to topwater shrimp and gurgler-style patterns, including strong-arm gurglers. For crabs, he and Tom get into the deadly presentation of dropping the fly to the bottom right in a fish's line of sight, mimicking a crab that has spotted the fish and is diving for cover.
He is refreshingly honest: compared to everything else, he says he kind of hates permit fishing. He spends most of his fishing time on bonefish when he is in the Bahamas with clients and on snook and redfish at home. Tom and Drew also discuss the wave of anglers jumping straight from trout fishing in Montana to permit with zero saltwater experience, and why that is so hard.
Tom recounts a bite that happened almost entirely on the drop — you cast close enough that the fish catches the fly out of the corner of its eye, then let it fall to the bottom without moving it, so it looks like a crab that saw the fish and bolted for cover. The cast has to be close enough to be seen but not so close that it spooks the fish. Drew unpacks why that works.
Drew keeps a running log of words, sayings, and phrases he finds funny, catchy, or useful — enough material, he jokes, to be its own book. That habit feeds his fly-tying books and articles. He and Tom talk about how that newsletter-and-writing discipline turned out to be some of the best career advice he ever followed.
Tom Rowland Podcast Episode 830 with Drew Chicone is available on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and iHeartRadio. The video version is embedded at the top of this page — press play to watch.
I am fascinated by people who treat a narrow craft as deeply as Drew treats fly design. He is not just tying flies; he is studying how fish eat and engineering patterns around that. He is also a former tennis pro and a writer, which means he thinks about discipline and communication in ways most fly tyers do not. I wanted him to walk me through how he actually builds a pattern. Press play in the YouTube player above to hear it.
Drew does not start with a hook and wing it. He starts with a gap — the redfish, snook, or bonefish patterns a given fishery needs — and drills down until he has something that solves a real problem. He explains how he tests movement, why he wants a fly he can animate when a fish hesitates, and how much of the answer comes from watching fish rather than tying. Listen to that breakdown in the episode.
A big spawning-style shrimp is one of Drew's favorites because he can impart movement to it instead of relying on the fall. He is also into topwater shrimp and gurgler patterns, including the strong-arm gurgler. We get into when each one earns its place in the box. Watch that section in the YouTube player above.
This is one of my favorite parts. I describe a bite that came almost entirely on the drop — fly falling to the bottom in front of a fish like a crab that just got caught out — and Drew explains the design and presentation logic behind it. Close enough to be seen, not so close it spooks. Listen to him work through it in the episode.
▶ Watch the full conversation on YouTube · 🎧 Listen now
Drew says it plainly — relative to everything else, he kind of hates permit fishing, and spends his time on bonefish, snook, and redfish instead. We also get into the modern phenomenon of anglers going straight from Montana trout to permit with no saltwater background. Hear his unfiltered take in the episode.
The day after this one, what stuck with me was how much Drew's edge comes from observation. He spends time bait fishing and just watching fish eat so his flies imitate the real thing — the craft is downstream of the watching.
The other thread is his writing log, the running collection of words and sayings that feeds his books. It is a reminder that the best people in any field tend to keep notes the rest of us do not bother with.
Watch the whole thing in the player above. If you tie flies at all, you will pick up something.
The Tom Rowland Podcast brings you long-form conversations with the most accomplished anglers, hunters, conservationists, and outdoor professionals in the game. Listen to every full-length Tom Rowland Podcast interview.
Drew Chicone is an expert saltwater fly designer and author who has spent decades developing and documenting fly patterns for species including bonefish, snook, redfish, and permit. A former tennis pro, he treats fly design as a discipline rooted in observation — watching how fish actually eat and engineering patterns and presentations around that behavior. He is also a prolific writer, producing books and step-by-step tying content, and is known for principles like prioritizing a fly's profile and movement and keeping pattern construction effective and intentional.
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