Tom Rowland Podcast Episode 58 is my conversation with UFC fighter Gregor Gillespie, who is not just another wrestler turned MMA competitor. He is a two-time high school state wrestling champion, a four-time Division I All-American, and an NCAA national champion who brings the exact same intensity to fishing that he brings to the octagon. He goes by #bestfishermaninMMA, and he means it. We talk about the parallels between wrestling discipline and fishing obsession, how he uses time on the water to decompress between fights, and why he called out Chad Mendes for a fish-off instead of a fight.
▶ Watch on YouTube · 🎧 Listen now
Gregor Gillespie is a UFC fighter who came to MMA with an elite wrestling pedigree — a two-time high school state champion, four-time Division I All-American, and NCAA national champion. Outside the cage he is a serious angler who fishes upstate New York for bass and through the ice, and he is known by the hashtag #bestfishermaninMMA.
Gregor uses the hashtag #bestfishermaninMMA and is genuinely serious about his fishing. He is as obsessed with it as he is with fighting, and he famously used a post-fight moment to call out fellow UFC fighter and angler Chad Mendes for a fish-off rather than challenging another opponent in the octagon.
Gregor fishes in upstate New York, where he pursues both bass fishing and ice fishing. He fishes year-round and uses the time on the water to decompress from the intensity of UFC training camps and competition.
Gregor is a two-time high school state wrestling champion, a four-time Division I All-American, and an NCAA national champion. He transitioned from that elite wrestling career into mixed martial arts and now competes in the UFC, carrying the discipline and work ethic of wrestling into both fighting and fishing.
Gregor treats fishing as a mental tool, not just a hobby. The time on the water gives him the reset he needs between camps and helps balance the aggression required in the cage. He talks about decompression as part of performance rather than a distraction from it.
Tom Rowland Podcast Episode 58 with Gregor Gillespie is available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, and iHeartRadio. The video version is embedded at the top of this page.
I have interviewed a lot of serious anglers, but Gregor brings something different. Here is a guy operating at the highest level of professional fighting who is just as fired up about getting on the water as he is about a title shot. That kind of balance is what makes a person interesting to me — elite at one thing, but still carrying that same drive into something completely different.
And the fact that he called out Chad Mendes for a fish-off instead of another fighter tells you exactly where his head is. Press play in the YouTube player at the top of this page to hear it.
What does it take to become an NCAA national champion, and how does that same mindset turn into fishing obsession? Gregor draws the parallels between two pursuits that look nothing alike on the surface — the focus, the patience, the willingness to grind at something long after it stops being fun. The connection he makes will change how you think about transferable skills. Listen to that section of the episode.
Most fighters use the post-fight mic to call out their next opponent. Gregor used his to challenge Chad Mendes to a fishing competition. It was not a joke — he is serious about his claim to being the best fisherman in MMA. What drove that unconventional callout, and what it says about what really matters to him, is one of the best stories in the conversation. Hear it on the episode.
Gregor does not fish casually. He pursues bass and ice fishing in upstate New York with the same intensity he brings to a camp. How someone training at the top of professional MMA finds time to stay on the water all year — and what draws him to ice fishing in particular — reveals a side of him most UFC fans never see. Press play to hear it.
Training for the UFC demands relentless preparation, and that kind of pressure needs an outlet. For Gregor, that outlet is fishing. He explains how the water resets him between camps and balances the aggression the cage requires — a take on mental recovery that applies far beyond fighting or fishing. Listen to how he frames it.
Listen to the full conversation: ▶ Watch on YouTube · 🎧 Listen now
What struck me about Gregor is how he uses fishing as a mental tool, not just a hobby. He understands that decompression is part of performance — that the time on the water is what lets him bring everything he has when it counts. The parallels he draws between wrestling discipline and fishing obsession are real, the same mindset pointed at different targets.
If you want to understand how someone balances intense competition with the need to recover, and how discipline moves across completely different pursuits, this conversation is worth your time. Press play and hear it.
The Tom Rowland Podcast brings you long-form conversations with the most accomplished anglers, hunters, conservationists, and outdoor professionals in the game. Listen to every full-length Tom Rowland Podcast interview.
Gregor Gillespie is a UFC fighter who brought an elite wrestling pedigree to mixed martial arts — a two-time high school state champion, four-time Division I All-American, and NCAA national champion. The discipline and work ethic that defined his wrestling career now drive both his fighting and his fishing. Known as #bestfishermaninMMA, Gregor fishes upstate New York for bass and through the ice, using time on the water to decompress from intense UFC training camps. He remains humble about his fighting credentials while confidently claiming his title as the best fisherman in the sport.
Full transcript of the Tom Rowland Podcast, Episode 58 with Gregor Gillespie.
Tom Rowland: I'm Tom Rowland, and this is the Tom Rowland podcast. That was Gregor Gillespie, a wrestler who's transitioned to MMA, actually to the UFC. But he's not just a wrestler. Gregor is a two-time high school state champion, a four-time Division One All-American, and an NCAA national champion. I'm a wrestler, or a former wrestler, and my kids were wrestlers, and I'm a wrestling fan. I've been a wrestler, a wrestling coach, and a wrestling parent, and I'm always a fan of the wrestlers in the UFC. So the fact that Gregor Gillespie is in the UFC is not necessarily what caught my attention. He's 12 and 0, and he's getting a lot of people's attention. But this is what caught my attention.
Tom Rowland: It turns out that Gregor is as obsessed with fishing as he is with wrestling and fighting. In fact, he goes by the hashtag "best fisherman in MMA," and he gets straight to this fact in multiple interviews. While Gregor has no problem claiming that he is the best fisherman in MMA, he remains very humble with his career as a fighter. When most fighters will use a win to call out an opponent in the post-fight interview while they're in the ring, Gregor did finally call someone out backstage. He called out Chad Mendes for a fish-off. The reference to fishing in multiple interviews caught my attention, so I followed Gregor the GIF on Instagram, and sure enough, it was full of fishing pictures. So I direct-messaged him, and by the next day we had this podcast set up. I really, really enjoyed talking to Gregor. He's in the middle of his training. He was on a drive and took the opportunity to do this interview by phone while he was in the car. I love my conversation with him, and I think that you will too. It's an interesting path to a fishing obsession. So now here's the conversation with my new friend, Gregor Gillespie.
Tom Rowland: So Gregor, what are you up to, man?
Gregor Gillespie: I'm actually on the road back home right now. So there's a couple of birthdays this week. Mine is November 13th, my sister's is right around then, and my brother's is November 15th, so we're doing a little bit of celebrating.
Tom Rowland: All right, that's great. What are you guys going to do when you're celebrating your birthdays?
Gregor Gillespie: Well, I mean, I'm going to try to get some people to come fish with me, but we'll see what happens there. My brother's not a huge fisherman. I love to fish, obviously, but we'll see. They might tag along. But I think they're doing some sort of party on Saturday for all of us.
Tom Rowland: So what kind of fishing do you do up there typically?
Gregor Gillespie: I mean, we're right on Lake Ontario, so during the summer months when it's a little warmer we get some good trout fishing, but my personal favorite is muskie fishing.
Tom Rowland: Yeah, and do you also have pike?
Gregor Gillespie: Yeah, but obviously pike are a little more abundant, a little easier to catch, so they're not as gratifying when you do catch them.
Tom Rowland: So did you grow up fishing?
Gregor Gillespie: Yeah, I fished a lot when I was younger. My dad took us out. My dad is a big canoe guy — he builds canoe paddles for a living. He used to take us out in a canoe a lot on local lakes, and we got a lot of fish. But that was when I was really young. In my high school and college years, I focused a little more on wrestling and partying than I did on fishing.
Tom Rowland: Well, that's something that I was very interested in as a former wrestler myself. I certainly didn't make it anywhere near the level that you did, but I know that with the camps in the summer and everything that you're doing throughout the year, it doesn't leave a lot of time. And that's when I was kind of interested in how you became so interested in fishing. So your dad was an outdoorsman and building the canoe paddles, and I guess he was getting you out often, and that's where the fishing started?
Gregor Gillespie: Yeah, I would say some of my younger memories are when he used to take us up to the Adirondacks, which is, I think, the best scenery in New York. He would take us up there and he would toss us in the back of the canoe when we were real little. I remember going to Saranac Lake and literally trolling a spinnerbait off the side of a canoe and catching pike when I was probably nine or ten years old. But again, during my college years I kind of lost interest just due to other activities and obligations.
Gregor Gillespie: What got me back into fishing was actually about three years ago now. I went and visited a buddy — it was actually a sponsor for Edinboro wrestling. His name's Matt Lamoureux, a big fisherman, a big hunter. He said, "I will get you a muskie." And I said, "Okay, I've heard the tales about muskie. I've grown up hearing about them. They're the fish of 10,000 casts. You're not going to get me a muskie in one day." He said, "I'll get you one in one hour." We got two muskie in that first hour, and I think I was hooked. I bought a small little 14-foot aluminum boat for a couple grand, and you're tanking around with that. And then it got really serious after that.
Tom Rowland: So what was he doing so differently that you could go from a fish of 10,000 casts to two fish in an hour?
Gregor Gillespie: Okay, so now that I look back at it, this is insane to even think about. Edinboro Lake is a small lake, literally in the town of Edinboro, and I had no idea, but they stocked that lake with muskie. Matt Lamoureux has lived there 20 or 30 years now, and he actually was a wrestler at Edinboro as well. He basically knows that lake inside and out, and he was running the muskie baits — everybody's got their own personal favorites. Some guys run riggers, some guys run right off the sides, however your setup is, but he has his system. He's like, "Listen, if you run this for enough time, you're going to get a couple here in a day on this lake." He knows the spots on the lake to go, and he's got the whole shebang set up. And he got me two of them in one hour.
Tom Rowland: Wow, that's incredible. I've only been muskie fishing once. I've been pike fishing a number of times. I went muskie fishing one time, and I guess I didn't make enough casts, because we were casting.
Gregor Gillespie: Yeah, that's often when you troll — obviously when you troll you cover a lot more ground. You find a spot where they're holding or a depth that they're hitting, then you may cast there. But when you go out and you think you found a spot, you find them on the sonar, and then you kind of have to figure out where they're biting.
Tom Rowland: Well, when you go out there and you have this successful trip, what does that do? At this point in your life, what stage in your wrestling or fighting career is it that you fall in love with fishing?
Gregor Gillespie: Okay, here, I'll give you a little more timeline on this. Up until that point — I would say it would be right after my third fight, which was 2014 — I took a trip to the St. Lawrence and I chartered a boat. I paid for it, obviously. I brought my brother and my friend Scott went with me. This was September 2014. We got with this guy who must have been 100 years old, not very talkative, not very enthusiastic, and we sat on the back of his boat looking at four rods on downriggers going all over the St. Lawrence for eight hours and not a single bite, not even a follow. It was very discouraging. If you're in a good mood and your spirits are high the first two hours, the next six hours when you're not — the guy put all the poles out on the planers and the riggers, and we didn't touch a pole for eight hours literally. That was discouraging, but I said, "All right, well, that was a $1,000 trip. Four of those, you can buy a boat." We bought that little Lund I think two or three weeks later for four grand, and I mean, that was four trips right there. We've gotten way more out of that little Lund, and I've upgraded since then boat-wise.
Gregor Gillespie: So that was September 2014, and then we fished on and off, just tinkering around, nothing very serious. And then it was 2016 when I took that trip with Matt Lamoureux in Edinboro when he got me the two muskie in one hour. I think that was September or early October, so that was after my first UFC fight. I like to go back and visit my coaches and my friends that still live in Edinboro whenever I can. I don't have a ton of time, obviously, so it wasn't an eight-hour trip, but after my first UFC fight — which was my first victory in the UFC — September or early October 2016, and then ever since, that's been the deal.
Tom Rowland: So did fishing have any impact on the rest of your life and the fighting, in any sort of way that it refocused you? It must have.
Gregor Gillespie: When people ask me that, I actually have a very specific answer, and it's always the same. I would say I'm not sure it refocused me, in that it was something that — when you fish hard, and you know this, when you fish hard it's not always relaxing. You're running and gunning. I wouldn't say it was, "Hey, this is my kick-my-feet-up-and-have-a-drink-in-my-hand sort of fishing trip." But what it does for me is it breaks up the monotony of my very regimented lifestyle. I am a guy that does everything to the extreme. I am a guy that needs a structured, regimented lifestyle, and that's why I'm so good at wrestling and fighting. But it almost got to the point where I was feeling like a guy serving out a prison term or a prison sentence. It sounds funny and almost crazy to say that, but that's really how I felt. I felt like, man, it could be Sunday, it could be Tuesday, every day is the exact same thing, and weekends didn't really mean much. I don't drink, so it's not like I go out on the weekends. So it just broke up the monotony, and it gives me something to look forward to at the end of every week. I hold off during the week — I don't fish until Saturday and Sunday. Those are the two days I'll allow myself to do it. That's my weekend. I finally have a weekend. So it definitely gave me something to look forward to.
Tom Rowland: And are you training — I know your training will probably change a little bit as you're preparing for a fight — but are you training just five days a week, or on those weekend days are you training as well when you're fishing?
Gregor Gillespie: I also train on those. So tomorrow, when I go up and I fish upstate, I'll be getting up at probably 6:30 or 7:00 and I'll do a workout. I'll go out and fish, and when it gets dark we come back in — obviously it's getting darker a little earlier now — I come back in and I do another workout before dinner. My training really doesn't change a whole lot in or out of fight camp. That, for me, is kind of a weird term, because the only thing that changes is I do a little more sparring, but the number of workouts and the intensity of the workouts is relatively the same year-round.
Tom Rowland: And in order to break up this monotony and to learn more about fishing, are you reading about it and trying to get better? Or are you so wiped out after the training that you're just waiting for the weekend?
Gregor Gillespie: When you say reading or watching or learning, you mean about fishing? Of course. I'll put it this way: days when I'm doing my morning cardio session — a treadmill or an elliptical or a stepper or whatever it is that day — I actually was watching a bunch of the Saltwater Experience. I like to do that. A lot of guys like to watch fights, or they've watched an old opponent or a new opponent, but I'd rather watch fishing. So I'm constantly trying to learn, and I pick people's brains — the muskie guys especially. I got a buddy up there named Zach Baker. He makes the best muskie lures, and they are — I almost feel bad using them, they're a piece of art. So I try to talk to him as much as I can and pick his brain. These muskie guys are really into it. I'll give you an example — the moon times. For me, I had no idea what he was talking about, but he runs these tournaments, and he'll tell me, "Hey, if you look at the data I picked up running this tournament, 90 percent or 85 percent of the fish were caught at peak moon times." So I was like, geez, man, you really are getting picky and detailed on this. It's like, hey, just run a few baits at this stuff and they're eating — the moon times.
Tom Rowland: Well, a lot of the deer hunters feel the same way. There's this moon guide, and you can adjust it and figure out the peak times, and some people absolutely swear by that. As a fishing guide, I used to have people that would call me all the time and they'd be like, "What are the tides like this week? What is the moon like? What's the best week?" And I would always give them the same answer. I'm like, "Look, man, I don't know. I'm going out there and I'm going to be out there anyway, so I really don't know what to tell you. If you fish hard, and the wind's not blowing, and you get some nice weather, you're going to catch more fish than on a perfect moon when you've got a cold front. I'm going out there anyway. So you can come, and we'll try to catch some fish." That's how I go out. Tomorrow it's probably going to be rain, and I didn't even look at the wind, but I'm going out regardless, because the lake we're going on tomorrow is not a big body of water. If you troll the perimeter of the lake, you'll do it 20 times in a six- or eight-hour period. It's not very big. I'm not going to get up so I'm there by 6:00 for the sunrise. I just go, and if I get there at 9:00 a.m., I get there at 9:00 a.m., and we fish until it's dark, so 5:00 p.m. tomorrow will probably be about how late we can cut it.
Tom Rowland: That's cool. It's really cool to see you in all of your post-fight interviews bringing up fishing so much. You go straight to it. You go by the hashtag "best fisherman in MMA," and you're right there with Joe Rogan in the ring, and the first thing — you say a couple of nice things about your opponent and then it's straight to fishing. I find it really interesting that it's that big a part of your life. In my experience, when I would have anglers come, these guys who look pretty athletic and are just so into it — as into it as I am — I always would ask them, "Hey, man, what's your athletic background?" And nine times out of ten, the people that were really into fishing were wrestlers of some sort. They wrestled in high school or grammar school, or they were baseball players. I don't know why. Do you have any thoughts on why wrestlers would be drawn to fishing as much as they are, because it's uncanny?
Gregor Gillespie: This would be my only guess — and again, I don't have any research or data to back this up, because I don't know a lot about the other sports — but I know a lot of the good wrestling schools, they're rural. There are some exceptions, obviously, like Columbus, Ohio State, but if you talk about the Pennsylvania schools — State College, Penn State, middle of nowhere; Edinboro, middle of nowhere; Clarion, Bloomsburg — all these schools are in the middle of nowhere, and they're typically, at one point, really good wrestling schools. I think a lot of the downtime — guys making weight so they can't eat and drink and party — a lot of that downtime is fishing or hunting. I know at Edinboro a lot of these guys were asking for the first day of hunting season off from practice. In Pennsylvania, I don't know if this was some made-up day off, but the kids are all off from school the first day of hunting season.
Tom Rowland: Well, I think that's awesome. I used to have a deal with my kids that if they brought home straight A's, we would take them out of school and we would go fishing. We held to that until they were in high school. We've got a lot of people getting straight A's here and pulling their kids out of school, but it did work, and that was my reward.
Tom Rowland: The people that I know in wrestling and MMA who are fishermen — the ones that I know the most, Pat Miletich, he loves to fish. Chad Mendes is great — he's got a whole guide service. I'm trying to get him on the podcast too. I've talked to him a couple of times. I guess he's getting ready for another fight, so his time might be a little limited, but he's got a cool thing going in California. And also Tito — Tito Ortiz, he loves to fish.
Gregor Gillespie: Absolutely. I saw a couple of theirs on YouTube, and those guys are really good at fishing too. Especially with Tito — Tito does a little more saltwater now. I should probably refine my hashtag and my handle. I'm definitely the best freshwater guy — I wouldn't have a clue in saltwater. I've only gone saltwater fishing two or three times, so I can't claim I'm the best there, but I know those guys are big saltwater guys. I'd always seen Mendes out in the boat in the ocean doing some deep-sea stuff. But I wouldn't have the slightest idea where to even start in saltwater.
Tom Rowland: Well, we should definitely get you down to the Florida Keys, because anyone who is a fisherman at heart loves the Florida Keys immediately. There's just so much. It's lifetimes upon lifetimes upon lifetimes of exploring, and for the most part, most of what we're doing is the type of fishing that you're talking about — it's a very athletic style. Of course, there are other ways that you can fish, but for the most part, fishing in the shallow water on the skiff, you're poling the boat all day long, and you're seeing the fish before you're casting to them. Then it becomes like hunting, where you see the fish, you try to sneak up on them, and then make a cast in a way that they can't see it or hear you. And these fish are huge a lot of times. A bonefish can be kind of small, but they're like one of your Lake Ontario steelhead up there — just super strong pound for pound. They take off. And of course we have tarpon, which get 150 pounds, and they'll be in two or three feet of water, and you sneak up on those and just throw either a light spinning rod or a fly to them. You would go nuts.
Gregor Gillespie: Yeah, I really like — here's the thing I don't love about my perception of saltwater fishing. I did it a few years back — I went out to do a wrestling clinic and they took us out for halibut, and it was really cool, but I'm not super into just putting bait on and dropping it down and letting them eat. I get it, there are some fish you have to catch like that. You're not going to throw a bass lure out and catch a grouper, you've got to drop it, I get that. But I just like the more active fishing. I don't love throwing bait on and dropping it down and waiting for something to eat it. I like what you just talked about — going and spot casting to those big fish, running a fly past them or a streamer past them.
Tom Rowland: Do you fly fish?
Gregor Gillespie: I just started fly fishing this past year, actually, because it was a little less near Long Island — all the fresh water was really cold that year here in Long Island, and none of the waterways were open water anymore, it was all hard water. The only body of water in Long Island that was still running was the Connetquot. They have a pretty cool thing going on there where you actually reserve a spot. You call ahead, you reserve a spot, and they have four-hour slots during the day. You pay like 30 bucks and you go in and you get a little platform on the river, and you can stay on the platform or you can go in the water if you've got your waders. But I started fly fishing, I guess it was eight or nine months ago, and I fell in love with it.
Tom Rowland: Well, you will — I mean, just from what I know about you already, you're going to go crazy for it, because it is this constant learning process, this constant refinement, not unlike golf or Olympic weightlifting or martial arts, where the better you get, the better you realize that you can be, and the more you practice. It's like a Tiger Woods, someone that constantly is changing his stroke and constantly working with coaches. There's just that opportunity with fly fishing. And then — probably something from watching your dad make the paddles, which I'm sure you did when you were growing up — there is this whole aspect to fly fishing where you're tying your own flies, where you build your own rods. I don't know, it's all-consuming.
Gregor Gillespie: It can be. And especially for what you're saying about the fishing that I'm doing now being kind of a break from the monotony, that's where I think the fly fishing — that's what I found about it. You've got your friend that makes the lures and stuff, and you probably have a whole wood shop or I don't know what he's got, but to tie your own flies you just need a vise and a few little things, and you can come up with these cool flies, and then when you catch a fish on it, it's really something.
Tom Rowland: Yeah, it really is.
Tom Rowland: But I kind of think that, getting back to the reason why the wrestlers and fighters like fishing so much — I always kind of think of it, especially in the type of fishing that I do, it is really a chess game. My friend Scott Walker explains it like this: every morning he gets up and he thinks of it as a puzzle. It's like the puzzle was all created, and every morning somebody's dumped it all out on the floor. So you pick up all these pieces and you lay them on the table, and you start looking for the four corners. You get these four corners set up, and that's the wind, and the tide, and maybe throw in the moon or whatever other factors, and you start putting this puzzle together. By the end of the day, you've worked out this pattern of where the fish are, which is not entirely unlike a wrestling match.
Gregor Gillespie: You're right. I mean, I guess you can go in there and on occasion you're going to just completely overpower your opponent, but for the most part, in a tough match, it's like a physical chess match.
Tom Rowland: It is. You're thinking a step or two ahead. And then there's all this preparation that goes into it, not unlike fighting. I know what you're doing in getting ready for a fight is a huge amount of preparation, months or a year ahead of time.
Tom Rowland: And then I noticed that you have some interesting — to say the least — rituals before the fight, which is making weight two weeks before. Is that something you did when you were wrestling?
Gregor Gillespie: I didn't. It was just — I was kind of trying to mimic a wrestling season. Because as you know, and anyone else who wrestled knows, you make weight throughout the season. So there might be 20 weigh-ins, and typically the first one is the worst. You feel the worst when you do it, you don't recover as fast when you put the stuff back into your body that you've run out of. So really, it was just kind of trying to mimic that first bad weight cut and get that one out of the way, so that on the second and third time when I do it, my body's actually had practice at replenishing and rebuilding after that weight cut. It worked for me. I don't get super heavy, so for me it's not a huge deal to make it two or three times before a fight.
Tom Rowland: What do you walk around at?
Gregor Gillespie: About 170.
Tom Rowland: Okay, so 170, and you're fighting 155.
Gregor Gillespie: Yeah, but we get a pound, so it's 156, because non-title fights it's always plus one, so it's 156. For me it works. I wouldn't say that everyone would feel the same. I think some guys are so big that it would probably hurt them to go down a couple of times, but for me it works, and I think that's what you need to find when you're fighting — you find what works exactly for you. Some guys won't be able to drink Pedialyte right after. I personally won't drink Pedialyte. I'll drink half water, half Gatorade. I get a little bloated if I drink Pedialyte — it's so full of those electrolytes and sodium. Some guys swear by it, but for me it doesn't work as well. I think that's the secret of being super successful, is finding out exactly what makes you tick and what you run best on.
Tom Rowland: And also in that same article that I read, it was talking about you making weight two weeks ahead of time, but it also said that you decide purposefully not to fish three weeks before the fight. Is that true?
Gregor Gillespie: Yeah. So what happens is, three weeks out, I cut myself off from fishing, and it almost makes me feel like, all right, this puts me back in that kind of prison-sentence lifestyle where I'm like, this is go time now, it's getting serious. My body and my head, everything knows that the fight's coming up, and it's time to really get locked and loaded. It almost deprives me a little bit, and it gives me — I hate to say it, it makes me want to beat the guy even worse, because that's so cliché sounding, but it makes me feel like, man, I'm being deprived and robbed of a little bit of pleasure here, so I need to get it out somehow. It almost channels me a little bit towards beating the guy more than I wanted to already.
Tom Rowland: That's saying a lot about what fishing has done for your lifestyle, because before that — we're only talking about a few years ago that you really have taken fishing this much into your life — so before that, how were you channeling this aggression?
Gregor Gillespie: I don't know, to be honest with you. I couldn't — if I had been living like that, still, I'm not sure I'd still be fighting. It says a lot, and I know it sounds a little extreme, but I don't know how long I could have gone on like that, because it is really taxing on you, not having any sort of reprieve from the grind of 18, 19 workouts a week sometimes. I couldn't imagine — I might not be fighting if it weren't for fishing or something else to give me a little bit of that, like I said, breaking up the monotony and the superstructures of that lifestyle.
Tom Rowland: So do you think that fishing has made you a better fighter?
Gregor Gillespie: I absolutely do. Obviously it's not a direct correlation, but it has some sort of correlation. I think it makes me take a little bit of time off, because I'm the kind of guy who probably overtrained — actually not probably, I definitely overtrained. It at least makes me not do too many workouts on those days that I'm fishing. It gives me a little break. Again, I mentioned that fishing is hard and we're running and gunning, so it's not kicking my feet up and tanning in the boat. But I think it definitely makes me take a little bit of time off from working out, because when I get bored — even if I've already trained two or three times that day — I'll go for a run because I'm so bored. I'm lonely in my apartment, I've done a lot, I'm sick of watching TV, so I'll go out and run. When I'm fishing, I'm occupied and I can't go for a run or go for an extra bike ride or do an extra lift or whatever the case might be.
Tom Rowland: And in the way that you're set up right now, wherever you're training and living, you have your boat, you have access basically at short notice. It wouldn't take you a full day trip to go fishing, right? You have some access to some good water?
Gregor Gillespie: Okay, so here's what happens — and since we're obviously doing a lengthy podcast, I can explain as long as you want. I'm in Long Island, which is where I live. I have an apartment down there and I'm there 85, 90 percent of the time. Like I mentioned, my parents, my brother, my sister, my whole family lives upstate, which is six or seven hours away from the downstate area of Long Island and New York City. So I don't have my boat in Long Island. I leave the boat upstate. So if you see me in my boat on my Instagram, that means I'm upstate New York. What I do when I'm in Long Island is I'm typically — actually, I always am — in my waders, so I'm out and actively walking around the banks or in the water and hiking to little spots that are kind of remote, typically a little further east in Long Island. So yes, when I'm in Long Island I'm in the waders, and if I'm upstate I'm in the boat.
Tom Rowland: And you seem so close to the really good striped bass fishing.
Gregor Gillespie: I am. It's never been of interest. My buddy Justin and my buddy Ken and my buddy Dylan are saltwater guys, and they like to go out and do that surf casting, but I've never done it. I did a little bit of bluefishing like I mentioned last year. I did like two or three trips with my buddy Ken. This is really a pretty cool story. I had knee surgery in May of 2017. It was a big knee surgery — I have a six or seven inch scar on the front of my knee. So I was in a leg immobilizer, which is a brace from your groin to your ankle, and you can't bend your knee. Ken was like, "Listen, the blues are on fire," wherever we were going. "You've got to come." And I was like, "Listen, man, I'm not sure I'll be able to even walk. How far?" He said, "Well, it could be a mile from the parking lot." I was like, "Listen, I can't walk like that." He's like, "I'll carry you." He carried me — I was piggyback out to the water — and he got me on the blues. I think in two hours I caught like 12 or 13 of them, and they're pretty upwards of ten pounds, high.
Tom Rowland: I saw one on your Instagram that was huge, one of the bigger fish I've ever seen.
Gregor Gillespie: Yeah, that was a big guy. That was with Ken. Ken took me out there and put me on those fish, and I loved it. The problem is Ken has a full-time job, obviously, and his only days off are during the week, so again, I don't fish unless it's the weekend. So I don't get to fish much, but Ken has been trying to get me to do fluke and blackfish, and he's doing trigger fish off the dock a little earlier this year. If I went out with Ken, I'd get into saltwater fish, but I just can't make the times work.
Tom Rowland: Well, I can tell you this, from what I know about it — and I'm a stranger to this world — but that striped bass world is full of a bunch of maniacs that are as into it as you can possibly imagine, and they are seriously, completely obsessed. My friend Jamie Howard, who has been on this podcast, did this three-year-long project — I think it was three years he spent doing this movie, and it's called Running the Coast. You should really check that out. It's so close to you. You're surrounded by all this water and this whole culture of these obsessed maniacs out there fishing for these giant striped bass. They fly fish for them, they surf cast for them, and some people actually wear wetsuits and get in the water — and they call it "skishing," where they're kind of swimming and they're fishing. They're just out there in the middle of the night in this freezing cold water. Maniacs, these guys. Every little nuance of fishing has its extreme end, but these guys live on the extreme end, and that's coming from a pretty extreme fisherman myself. I look at these guys and I'm like, dang, those guys are hardcore. So when you find that, you're going to go for it.
Gregor Gillespie: Yeah, I've thought about it. I get that, because I remember when I was out last year with my buddy Dylan right around the same time, and these guys are all bluefishing — and obviously you get some stripers when you're bluefishing — but they were literally running from spot to spot. It was like, "Hey, they've moved up to Lido Beach, they moved down to Dismiss Point," and everyone hops in the car and just bolts. They have a little network of all their buddies that keeps them in the loop.
Tom Rowland: Was it neat to see how fast these guys will jet from one spot to another, because they just know that the fishing isn't hot here, it's down the street? Someone went over there before and they said the fishing's on, and you get there, then let's move down to another spot down the beach.
Gregor Gillespie: Right, and they're moving around like crazy. They've got the whole network, and they move around with the tides and with all sorts of different situations, getting a little piece of information just like you're talking about.
Tom Rowland: And there's a physical aspect to that fishing as well. Some of those guys are wading out as far as they possibly can and finding a rock to stand on, and they're getting pummeled by waves, and that's where you're going to be like, oh, this is physical. Like, if I'm tougher or I can stand here longer, that means I'm going to catch more fish than the rest of these guys. And then you'll never come in.
Gregor Gillespie: When I say I'm in, man, I'm in.
Tom Rowland: Yeah, I can tell. I actually saw your tattoo that says "one or a hundred."
Gregor Gillespie: Yep, one or a hundred. I'm doing it, or I'm not doing it. It's 100 percent diving in headfirst. So it's either all or nothing with me, and that doesn't pertain to one aspect of my life — that's my entire personality. If I decide I'm going to do something — like when I decided I was going to fight, I said, "I'm going to see this through the whole way, and if I do this, I'm going to beat the best, and I will be fully immersed in this lifestyle." That's all I am. Otherwise, I just wouldn't do it. I'm not going to half-ass anything.
Tom Rowland: So let's talk about that for a second. Obviously not everyone is going to understand your wrestling pedigree, but you're a two-time state champion in high school, correct? Then you go to one of the best wrestling colleges in the country, Division One Edinboro, four-time All-American, and then you win a national title. And not only that, but if I'm not mistaken, at some point along the line, I watched you wrestle Jordan Burroughs, who is, in my opinion, one of the world's best. Tell the people that are listening who Jordan Burroughs is.
Gregor Gillespie: Yeah, I mean, he definitely is one of the world's best. He might be one of the best in history, not just this current moment in time. He's something else. He has been the guy that has represented the U.S. since 2011. So that's '11, '12, '13, '14, '15, '16, '17, '18 — eight years in a row now, and that's including two Olympic years. Of those eight years that he's represented the U.S. — because only one guy can represent the U.S. for any given weight class — that weight class in the U.S. has been owned by Jordan Burroughs for the last eight years. And of those eight, he's won five world or Olympic titles. Three of those eight he didn't win — he had two bronzes and five golds — and I think he didn't place in the 2016 Rio Olympics. That's his only bad tournament.
Tom Rowland: What about just recently in the World Championships a couple of weeks ago?
Gregor Gillespie: A couple of weeks ago he took a bronze. He lost to, I believe, the Russian. It was actually — the idea was that Jordan Burroughs would probably meet this guy, the Cuban who actually is now wrestling for Italy. I think he defected to Italy, and it was going to be those two in the semifinals or the finals. But Burroughs ended up getting beat by, I believe, the Russian, and then the Russian beat the Italian, and then the Italian and Burroughs — who had actually traded, they'd swapped matches over the course of the summer, one guy won and the other guy won — that ended up being the bronze medal match, which Burroughs won. So this most recent tournament he was the third best in the world, which actually — it sounds so crazy to say this — but it's a little disappointing considering everyone expected him to win another gold. So I'm sure he was probably a little — he underperformed. He'd won five Olympic or World titles before that.
Tom Rowland: You think he's a little bit disappointed when his Instagram handle is "All I See Is Gold"?
Gregor Gillespie: All I See Is Gold. Up until a few years ago he had, I think, only one loss in his first five years of international competition, which is absolutely mind-boggling.
Tom Rowland: That is mind-boggling, especially when you know anything about the way that some of these other countries manage their youth programs, like Cuba, or I'm sure Russia. Somebody like Yoel Romero was basically brought up in a wrestling training camp, and depending on which number you were — whether you were number one or number four — depended on how much you got to eat. I listened to that podcast and I was fascinated. Wrestling in the United States is a lot of private schools, and how can you possibly compare the motivation? This guy's trying to eat, and we've got kids over here trying to win a state championship. I was just fascinated with the difference of the motivating factors.
Gregor Gillespie: That, more than anything else in that podcast, I was just like, wow. I know, that was such a super cool one to listen to. And I remember, other than the translating issue — obviously he doesn't speak great English, so that was one thing that wasn't awesome about it — but it didn't really matter because the content was so fascinating.
Tom Rowland: Yeah, especially coming from somebody that knows even just a little bit about wrestling. Maybe it wasn't as interesting to people that don't know anything about wrestling or how competitive it is, but I just was fascinated by that.
Gregor Gillespie: And like something you mentioned earlier — it's like the cool kid gets the cool kid table. If you win, or you're the best guy in the country at that weight class, you're getting better housing, better food, more meals, more privilege. It's like, man, no wonder these countries are obviously good — the motivating factor there is your livelihood. And in the U.S., it's incredible that they won the Worlds last year and took second this year. It's just insane to think that we could compete with a country like that, or even more so the Russians. It's literally insane. That is the national sport in Russia, and if you are a good wrestler, you're famous. Alexander Karelin is a politician — he's the most successful wrestler in history, but he's literally a high-up guy in the government in Russia.
Tom Rowland: Yeah, and high up in more ways than one. That guy's freaking a giant. What a monster.
Gregor Gillespie: He's a total monster.
Tom Rowland: So anyway, we got on a little bit of a tangent, because Jordan Burroughs is in or around your weight class. As you get out of college — and not to mention that Kyle Dake and David Taylor are right there too, bump up, bump down — you're not going to be encountering anything but unbelievable competition, whether or not you've heard of these people. That leads you to — you finish college, and where does that leave you? Are you looking at the UFC as a possibility? I just had Matt Hughes on and I was asking him about his motivating factors, and he was like, "Man, I just went to basically a tough-man contest, and I went there, won, and it was fun, and I made a little money, and then I just kept going." So what was your journey like, coming from college? Now the UFC is a major draw, a real way to make a living, there's a career there. How does that work for you?
Gregor Gillespie: Okay, so when I was done competing — my last year of eligibility was '09, my last NCAA tournament — I got done with school, I took a couple years off doing pretty much anything, partied a little too much, cleaned up my act, and then I wanted to compete again. When I was totally done with my own eligibility year, I really was done. I didn't want to compete ever again. I was so sick of it. I loved winning and I love competing, but it was just such a grind. College wrestling, there's nothing like it — having to do school and the weight cut a couple times a week and having to travel all over the country, play catch-up when you get back, and you've got the toughest dudes in the country trying to rip your head off every weekend, even in your own practice room. So I was done. I said, "I'm done, thank God." I remember saying this to a buddy: "Mike, my term, my sentence is through. I've served my time." Like I said, I started partying a little too much, it got a little out of hand, and I ended up cleaning up my act a little bit. When I got to that point, I said, "What the hell else am I going to do now? I should probably start competing again." So I started wrestling again. I did one year of freestyle wrestling, and that just happened to be the year Jordan Burroughs was coming out of college and won his first world title.
Gregor Gillespie: It was so clear to me — and for anyone listening who doesn't know collegiate style — in American-style wrestling there's a lot of top and bottom, so when you take a guy down you could stay on top of them, and when you're on bottom the objective is to get out. In international style wrestling, which is what you do after college at the Olympic and World level, there's really no top and bottom, it's all neutral. So you're on your feet, and the objective is to take the guy down, or turn the guy as he's taking you down, or something along those lines. There's really no top and bottom position. My forte in wrestling was top, so the best part of my game was taken away from me if I wanted to compete in freestyle. Jordan Burroughs, on the other hand, is probably the best guy ever in the neutral position in history. So for me to think that I was going to compete with Jordan Burroughs and beat him in his best spot, which was not my best spot — I saw the writing on the wall, and I said, "I think it's probably time to try something else."
Gregor Gillespie: At that point I'd actually moved to become an assistant coach at Hofstra, and I started training with some local MMA guys. They asked me if I could help spar for a fighter that they were fighting. I said, "I'm pretty good at this. I'm beating these guys who were actually either close to or in the UFC, and I had no training." So I figured, if I put a little into this, I think I could be pretty good. That's the short story.
Tom Rowland: So what's the first step that you thought you needed help with? Boxing, striking on your feet, jiu-jitsu? When you're thinking about taking the next step, what does that look like for you?
Gregor Gillespie: I can only speak for myself, because I know striking comes a little more naturally to some than others. For me, striking has been the hardest thing to pick up, and I'm definitely getting better and I continue to improve at it, because it's such a foreign skill to me. Obviously wrestling — I had to tie some punches into takedowns, and I had to tie some defensive punches into takedowns. Jiu-jitsu is really just an extension of wrestling, where you can adjust to hurt the guy or put him in a spot where he could get hurt so he submits. But boxing is completely different. Typically wrestlers that are righty put the right leg forward, and if you're a righty in boxing you put the left foot forward. Fortunately for me, I was left-leg and right-leg when I wrestled, so it was okay to put my left leg forward. But yeah, striking is so different than wrestling and jiu-jitsu that it's definitely been the hardest for me to pick up.
Tom Rowland: And I would think that that's also some pretty hard lessons. You go in there and you start training with boxers.
Gregor Gillespie: The hardest thing, in my opinion, was when you think you're just going to run everyone over with takedowns, and then it's a lot different when guys are throwing punches at you and you can eat a knee pretty quick. And I ate my share of those in the beginning. And then the frustration with guys that aren't wrestlers but they're stopping your takedowns, because you're not setting them up, you're just diving in — because you think you're the wrestler, so you should be able to run them over. My head coach, Keith Trimble, actually planted it pretty quickly: "Listen, man, this is not a wrestling match. You have to set those up or you're going to pay. And not like you're going to lose — you're going to get hurt." So he planted it in my mind fairly early: "Listen, man, set these takedowns up. You can't just go diving in there. This is not a wrestling match. I don't care what you think you are. You've got to add some punching in, and then you've got to throw it down — either you're going to throw them so you get them to throw back, and then shoot." So that's kind of been a really big focus of our training — the striking to the takedowns, and then getting them to throw back so you can shoot under their punches. But that came fairly easy to me. Now, if you're talking just boxing, and I go box a good boxer — that is humbling.
Tom Rowland: Yeah, I would imagine that it would be.
Tom Rowland: This is kind of interesting, because it seems like you were at a place in your career where you had done so much competitive wrestling in order to get to the level that you finally were — four-time All-American and a champ. I know what it takes to get there — a tremendous amount of competition, practice, and weight cuts. So you're at a point in your career where you're even calling it like you've served your prison term, and now you're moving into this new world of MMA, which has some familiarity to it — there's some things that you're going to really take to, and some things that are completely foreign. So how has that been for you? Has that re-energized you, now that you're learning all of these things and then you kind of realize, wow, there's way more to learn? Is that liberating or re-energizing?
Gregor Gillespie: Yeah, I'm not sure what the right word or term is for that, but I'll explain it like this. If I'm going to dumb it down, the room to grow in wrestling for me was like tenths of a percent — that was the gap I was trying to close. So let's say I was at 99.4 percent of how good I was ever going to be. To get to 99.5 or 99.6 was going to be a long, arduous process and not very gratifying, because you really don't notice that difference. Whereas learning a ton of new skills — you may not even notice that you've gained that tenth of a percent. But in fighting, I might make a 5 percent jump in a year, which you could tell the difference. Then you're beating guys you weren't beating. So that's a lot more gratifying, in my opinion.
Tom Rowland: And then the learning too — I would imagine, like you go back into wrestling and every practice you're learning a new move when you're a kid, and you're like, "Look, I can do this, and I can do this," and by essence everything's super exciting. And now you're going to jiu-jitsu and you're learning, "Ah, just got it — take this one little wrestling move, change it just a little bit, and check this out, I'm submitting this person." Or, "Wow, I was eating a knee, and now I'm doing this one thing slightly different and I'm not doing that anymore."
Gregor Gillespie: Yeah, it's fun. I think new skills — like when you go, "Hey, I learned this technique in jiu-jitsu class," and obviously it's not magic, it doesn't work the second you learn it, but over the course of a couple weeks, man, you've taken that skill that you learned and you can see it being effective against guys who are good. That is very satisfying. It really is.
Tom Rowland: I always think — and you may feel the same way — that other activities, whatever they are, like for you it's fishing, this is enhancing your fighting, because it's either giving you a break or it's allowing you to look at things a little bit differently. In my fishing career, I often look back on wrestling and think, okay, well, there's a lesson learned, and maybe if I apply it over here, then I can work this problem out that I'm having. Or maybe it's just a long stretch of bad weather, and it's like, well, I'm tired, I'm sore, it's no different than wrestling practice. You just go, you just do.
Tom Rowland: And in what we're talking about right now — I had a long career as a Key West guide in a skiff, and then I started having kids, and about that same time I got a different kind of boat. I got a bay boat, which is a larger boat, has bigger live wells. In the skiff, it's a 16-foot boat, there's no trolling motor, you were just poling along, pushing the boat with a push pole, mostly with fly fishing clients. And then I started getting into these tournaments and I started learning about spin fishing, and in the type of fishing that we were doing, you could be as skilled at spin fishing as you can be with a fly rod. That was a real eye-opener for me. Then I got this bay boat that had these bigger live wells in it, so now all of a sudden I'm throwing the cast net and I'm getting pilchards, and this opens up this whole new style of fishing. It's kind of similar to what we're talking about — you almost being a little bit burned out in the wrestling and then having this other opportunity to have your eyes opened and really start learning. That's the same thing that happened to me with the bigger boat, the bay boat. All of a sudden I became more excited about fishing than I had ever been before, because all of the stuff that I had learned in the skiff, now I was applying it differently to the same kinds of situations, but with different tackle, with different people, with a different objective in mind. It just totally was a career shift for me in the bay boat.
Gregor Gillespie: Yeah, it sounds kind of similar. I mean, how can you compare fishing and fighting in the UFC, but I just kind of do it in that it doesn't really matter what it is. I think the person that is constantly trying to learn is able to take whatever activity it is — whether you're into yoga and somehow apply that to your business — and it sounds like that's kind of what you did. It sounds similar to the boat. When you were telling me about that, I was just thinking, man, that sounds like how I felt with the bay boat. It's happened to me in fishing too. Like I told you, I've only been very gung-ho fishing for a couple years now, but when you run the same setup, the same program for muskie fishing or pike fishing, whatever it is, over and over and over again — sometimes you don't catch anything, but the majority of the time you are catching fish, and it's exciting when you catch fish. But this past year — I guess it was around the middle of 2017 — I got a bigger boat, a seventeen-and-a-half-foot Tracker deep V, and we put downriggers on it, and it changed my world.
Tom Rowland: Yeah, just a different type of fishing, and a new skill. Now you're having to relearn how to fish, taking some things from the other form of fishing but adding in new skills and a new platform. That's so similar to even wrestling, or fighting. It's like now you've got that downrigger and it's working and you start catching a couple of fish on it, and then there's this tendency to just stay there. It's like then you learn a new wrestling move, and it's like, "Oh, okay, well now I'm going to go out and throw everybody." But that's not appropriate — if you try to throw this guy, he's going to end up putting you on your back. That's his world. And I find that with fishing all the time. I'll open up this new world — whether it's the downrigger for you, for me it might be a new area where I'm finding these fish — and then the tendency is, "Wow, this worked, so now I'm going to do it every day." Just like with wrestling, that's what I'm talking about, applying the different things. It's like, if you decide to try to take down everybody you're fighting, it's going to work sometimes, but you're going to pay for it others. And so that's where I see that it's just this chess game. Sometimes the downrigger's going to be the best way, and then other times you're only going to want to use that part of the day, and at other times it's not going to be effective at all.
Gregor Gillespie: Yeah, it's — I don't know, I find it very interesting.
Tom Rowland: I do too. I kind of think that that is one of the reasons that the wrestlers have gravitated so much to MMA — and to fishing.
Gregor Gillespie: I think adding new skills, adding anything new, is always a little more fun. So this weekend we're probably going to get out the riggers, and then I've got some planer boards that I really want to try out. I don't know how to use them, but the thought of having to learn how to do that excites me. It's crazy, because most muskie guys use them, but I've never really used them, so I've got a couple at home and I can't wait to use them this weekend. And I guess this summer I started salmon fishing, because it was just too dang hot for the muskie, and it was so cool because it was kind of the unknown. You're like, "Is this really going to work? I'm going out into 300 feet of water out in Lake Ontario, I can't see the land anymore, and there's fish out here, really?" And then you start catching them and you're like, holy crap, man, this is cool.
Tom Rowland: Yeah, and you open that whole new world.
Gregor Gillespie: It is like a whole new world.
Tom Rowland: It is. And now it's like, okay, what would get me so excited is when I would find something that would work in weather conditions that other things won't work in anymore. I don't know what your prevailing wind is up there, but when it shifts the opposite way, that's probably not good. And then all of a sudden you find this one thing and you're like, "Oh, well, we could go over here and catch smallmouth bass up against the shorelines, the lee shoreline." So this weather condition that you used to be afraid of, or upset when it would roll around, now you're like, "Oh no, no, that's the best for this over here." And you've learned this, and you continue to progress as a fisherman, you continue to progress in your knowledge of how things are working. And in the Florida Keys, that's what gets so many people so excited about both the Florida Keys and Louisiana — there is just this massive, endless area, and then you add on top of that that you can just explore it forever. There's so many different fish. We'll fish for over 50 different types of fish, and in every weather condition there's something that you could do.
Gregor Gillespie: Wow, that's incredible.
Tom Rowland: Yeah, and it's really fun. I definitely want to get you down there, because you're the kind of guy that would really appreciate it.
Gregor Gillespie: Yeah, I would, man, for sure.
Tom Rowland: So what about your future? Do you have another fight planned?
Gregor Gillespie: We're working on that currently. We're just trying to figure out the date that works and the location. Obviously I live in New York, boy, I'd love to fight in New York, and there's one coming up in the early part of 2019, and I'd really like to be on it. So my managers are working on that currently, but as of this second there's nothing set in stone. That's where we're at right now. Obviously I'm training like I have a fight, so I'll be ready if they say, "Hey, this is where you are, be ready."
Tom Rowland: In the world of the UFC, do you have to just basically be on go?
Gregor Gillespie: No, because you don't have to say yes to a short-notice fight. A lot of guys wouldn't, and if I weren't prepared, I would absolutely say no as well if they had a short-notice opportunity and I wasn't definitely prepared. I try to be as prepared as I can, so if there's no injuries or sickness or anything, I can't speak for all the other athletes, but I can say that I am close to being ready most of the time. So if it's relatively short notice, I could probably try to pull it together.
Tom Rowland: Well, we'll be watching, and you'll have a whole army of fishermen in your corner.
Gregor Gillespie: Cool, man, I love that. Yeah.
Tom Rowland: Now you definitely will. And we're going to get you some more information on both the striper — I'm going to see if I can get my friend Jamie Howard to send you the movie, and you can watch that movie you're talking about, Running the Coast. That's a really amazing piece. It's like a documentary, and it really goes into — they're a migratory fish, and so they're moving. We have a migratory fish in the tarpon, and there becomes a lot of mystique to that, because they're here sometimes when they're supposed to be, and then other times when they're supposed to be here, they're not. It's kind of like, where are you? So that gives the fish a lot of mystique.
Gregor Gillespie: Yeah.
Tom Rowland: We'll definitely get you hooked up with that deal, and the whole fishing world is going to be watching you. You should be the favorite of all the fishing world. I wish you all the best of luck.
Tom Rowland: And if people want to find you and follow you on your awesome Instagram, tell us how to do that.
Gregor Gillespie: The handle is @gregor_the_gift — that's G-R-E-G-O-R the gift, one word.
Tom Rowland: And do you have any other social media — YouTube, Facebook?
Gregor Gillespie: My Facebook is attached to my Instagram, so it's all the same stuff. You're not going to get anything on one that you won't find on the other. But I don't use Twitter, I just never really got into it. I know I probably should, but my Instagram is my main platform, and I put all my fish and stuff up there, a lot of my workouts, and anything else that maybe piques my interest I'll settle on there. But mostly it's fighting and fishing.
Tom Rowland: It sounds fun.
Gregor Gillespie: Yeah.
Tom Rowland: Okay, cool, man. Well, I hope you have a great trip on this one with your family. Happy birthday to you and your brothers and sisters, and just have a great weekend, and we'll be watching.
Gregor Gillespie: Awesome. All right, Gregor, thank you.
Tom Rowland: Thank you. See ya.
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