Jon B: The Googan Squad and Modern Fishing Content

Meeting Jon B

Tom Rowland: What's going on, everybody? If you have ever searched YouTube for fishing content, I'm sure that you've come across Jon B. Jon B has been on YouTube for over eleven years, a thousand plus videos. He's definitely one of the early fishing creators on YouTube. Learn about his story. How did he become Jon B, and what is the Googan Squad? Coming up. Here we go. Interesting, topic. And your video is just like I think it's like the the tip of the iceberg. What kind of kind of, response are you getting on your video, this latest video?

Jon B: You know, this just gave me a reason to unsubscribe. So very hot and cold. And like I said, I like to play both sides. I'm I'm a big devil's advocate guy, so I I don't always try to put myself in the position of thinking that whatever I create is is right. However, I think a lot of people that were commenting negatively might not finished the video because at the end, I really kind of left it up in the air, but then gave my 2¢. How's it going, guys? My name is Jon B, and this is the Tom Rowland podcast.

Tom Rowland: Perfect. You're a pro. I knew it.

Jon B: It's been it's been a couple years. I've got some practice at least.

Tom Rowland: You have a little practice. You've been in front of a microphone and a and a camera before. Jon B, man, Awesome. I'm really glad to have you here, man. I I gotta say I'm a fan. I I like your work. I think that, I've watched you, grow up and really as as we all have, right, on on YouTube, and it's really cool. So you got like, I think I saw on your last video, it's been eleven years, a thousand videos, something like that, maybe even more. Is that accurate?

Jon B: Well, I I guess so. It's it's it's weird to to think of it from that point of view that I've been on YouTube for that extended time over a decade. But yeah. You know? I I I think I looked back a couple years ago, and it was, like, something like 900 videos. And it doesn't even feel like that. It's flown by pretty quickly. Partially because I I enjoy it. You know? I'm sure you feel the same way about your line of work and Yeah. And what we all do in the outdoor space. Very fortunate.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. Super fortunate. So how did how did how old are you, actually? So it's eleven years you've been doing this. So how old are you?

Jon B: I'm 28. I'll be 29 this year. Okay. Yeah.

Tom Rowland: Alright. So a good portion of your life has been spent on this. How did how did you start doing this?

How Jon B Got Started on YouTube

Jon B: I I got started in I wanna say maybe, like, in sixth grade, maybe a little bit earlier than that. I grew up just like every other angler watching fishing on TV. So my idols were Jimmy Houston, Bill Dance, Hank Parker. Those were, like, the big bass fishing TV personalities out there.

Tom Rowland: Yeah.

Jon B: And, going from the mid growing up in the Midwest, like, that was that's, like, the crown jewels. Like, you're after large mouth bass, you know, and that that was my thing. So I'd watch those guys, and then I'd get inspired to wanna make my own TV show. And my dad's he's very technologically savvy. Like, he's, you know, he knows his way around a computer and, a camera, and he actually has, he had at the time a couple little camcorders that one of which actually you could stick a floppy disk into. Yeah.

Tom Rowland: I don't

Jon B: know if you remember those. And you got, like, maybe five seconds of recording time on that. But it was this huge camera. So some of them ran on that, and then others would hold data via, like, an SD card. But back then, they were only, like, a couple megabytes. So I would pick up you know, we always go fishing on the weekends, Saturdays Saturdays or Sundays when I head off and he head off work. And I would just bring the camera with, and, you know, I just kinda chat as if I was on TV. You know? I'd I'd watch these guys and reiterate a lot of what they were saying, on the big screen. So that that's what got me started. And then I I I had this, like, you know, these these clips and and didn't know what to do with them. And I discovered iMovie, which, which came with the old Macs and I supposed to still do. And I clip them together, but I didn't know what to do with them after that. So that's when I discovered YouTube, and YouTube is still very fresh. I think YouTube started in o seven Yeah. O eight, I believe, and I hopped on in o nine. And, I just started uploading videos on there. I didn't know who, who they'd be for or even why, but I I was, like, really surprised when I'd upload one and they were actually getting, you know, maybe a couple 100 views. It was pretty wild. And back then, it was no one was really uploading fishing videos.

Tom Rowland: Mhmm.

Jon B: So I got I kinda stumbled upon this empty space of of people who are flocking to YouTube for what it was, but then some people that were flocking YouTube because they wanted to see phishing content on demand. Yeah. So that's how I got started. It was just just being curious. I think that was my big thing is curiosity.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. Wow. It it goes to, show you how long Bill Dance and Hank Parker and Jimmy Houston have been doing it because those guys were my idol too. Like, I I used to watch with my dad on Saturday mornings. I would watch those guys on TV, and, that's you know, they had such a huge influence on so many people, so many people that I know that are still doing it or made went to make a career out of it, whether that's as a tournament fisherman or as a TV host or a YouTuber. I mean, those guys have a big impact, and you do too. Like, I mean, you're you have a massive impact on, especially, young people. And, I think it's I think it's really cool, what you've been able to do and then then to, you know, branch out and do the the whole Googan thing is is amazing. I would love to hear about that, and we'll get there. But we're just getting to know one another. And,

Jon B: Absolutely. I love it.

Tom Rowland: And and so in order to let the audience get to know you slightly better, if they don't already know you, if they didn't already watch you grow up and get married and have children and and continue your fishing, we have something that we do here called the hot seat. And so the hot seat is, just a series of questions, either or. You don't put a lot of thought into them, just one or the other, which one you prefer. So you ready?

Jon B: I'm ready.

The Hot Seat

Tom Rowland: Okay. Winter Olympics or Summer Olympics?

Jon B: Probably Winter Olympics.

Tom Rowland: Fresh or saltwater?

Jon B: It's tough. I'm gonna go I'm gonna go with I'm gonna go with saltwater.

Tom Rowland: K. Drive or fly?

Jon B: Drive.

Tom Rowland: Text or call?

Jon B: Call.

Tom Rowland: Chocolate or vanilla?

Jon B: Chocolate.

Tom Rowland: Favorite social media platform?

Jon B: I'm very biased. I'd have to say YouTube.

Tom Rowland: I would think you would. Do you answer every comment or do you never look at them?

Jon B: In between, I'd say I try to get to the ones that really stick out to me. But, no, I I always look at comments. Always. YouTube videos, Instagram, all of them.

Tom Rowland: Nice. Cat or dog? Dogs. Would you rather have a million now or 10,000,000 later?

Jon B: Maybe 10,000,000 later.

Tom Rowland: One thing you've learned in the last year that has made you money.

Jon B: Well, they're pretty easy up to this point. Trying to make this short and sweet. One thing I've learned that I've learned personally is putting yourself in a room full of people that are also wanting to achieve the same goal as you. Surround yourself around productive folks. That's my big my big thing.

Tom Rowland: Very good. What's the most challenging thing about being Jon B?

Jon B: I'd say just just trying to remain creative and, like, true to true to yourself, you know, keeping keep just staying myself, I suppose. That's a big thing from a creative standpoint.

Tom Rowland: Right. What's the easiest thing?

Jon B: Easiest thing is finding that itch to go fishing. That's always been there for me.

Tom Rowland: Alright. A movie that makes you laugh.

Jon B: Movie that makes me laugh. Stepbrothers for sure. Just watched that recently.

Tom Rowland: Would you have a reptile for a pet?

Jon B: No. I don't think so. Just yeah. Just keeping it simple with dogs.

Tom Rowland: Yes. A non fishing destination that you would like to visit.

Jon B: I'd like to go to Japan. I'd actually think we have one better plan, but I'd like to go to Japan just for the purpose of the the visiting the people and seeing the culture.

Tom Rowland: Some good fishing there too. It's gonna be hard not to fish in Japan, I think. Yeah. They're crazy about fishing too over there. It's crazy about it. Like, so into it. They probably have it you'd probably have a a a entourage waiting for you with signs at the airport. You wouldn't expect it. You'd be like, I wonder who's on this airplane, but it would be you. Let's see. A top top fishing destination on your bucket list right now.

Jon B: Man. I'd say the Dominican Republic Of The Congo for goliath tigers. That's that's one that I have to tick off before I get buried.

Tom Rowland: I follow this dude over there that looks like he goes to the most craziest places ever. I'll I'll send you his thing. You probably follow him too. I'm sure.

Jon B: Yeah. Please do.

Tom Rowland: One species you would like to catch or catch again?

Jon B: I'm a go with catch again. I'd like to get another giant trevally. I'd like I'd like a a real big one. Yeah. Fifty fifty kegger for sure. Yeah.

Tom Rowland: I was thinking you might be thinking about, wolfish or arapaima, which are two fish that are both on my list.

Jon B: I could do those.

Tom Rowland: I would like to catch the giant trevally again. Of course, that that's a great fish. One thing that you've changed your mind on in the last two years?

Jon B: That's actually something I've been thinking about a lot. I think just one thing that I've changed my mind on a lot about a lot is is having to film videos that that are are all about virality, which I still do. I'm sure we're gonna talk about that. But also just wanting to just like getting like I said, really getting back to who I am and what I started this channel for. And that is just having fun with filming and then the kind of rest follows, you know, telling that story and creating really good content that you're passionate about.

Tom Rowland: Nice. One piece of advice that you live by.

Jon B: Other than keep fishing, never stop, I'd say just try to always be try to always think of it half glass full. As cliche as that is, my dad's always been a he's always been a about the he he's the singer. He says fish the experience, and a lot of that comes from days where we don't catch any fish. So he'll say that because it's it's more about just being out there with your people, with your friends, with your family. So I I'd I'm a big I'm becoming more of a big believer in just appreciating the little things and not focusing and worrying too much about what's not in your control.

Tom Rowland: Right. And you your dad was really a big part of, your fishing growing up. You still still fish with your dad a lot?

Jon B: Yeah. I don't as much as as much as I'd love to say I do, I don't. Where we live states and states apart, they're still up in Illinois. But, you know, if we were next door neighbors, I'd be out there all the time with him. But, yeah, he was he was the big foundation for getting in getting me into fishing. I mean, there was no one else that really got me into it like he did.

Forward-Facing Sonar, Wearable Tech, and Whether It Should Be Banned

Tom Rowland: Right on. Okay. So now we this is a good segue into, one one of the things that we're gonna talk about today. Will forward facing sonar be banned?

Jon B: I can't I can't, I can't say it will. I don't think so. I, you know and we can dive deeper to that and why why, you know, my reasons to back that answer, but I don't think so. No. Yeah.

Tom Rowland: So your latest video, was I don't know if if if everybody's seen it. I checked it out this morning. It looked like 250,000 people have seen it. It was about using the the Apple Vision Pro goggles. You had it all hooked up with you had your you had your forward facing sonar in the goggle and, really interesting video. I thought you did a really good job with it because I haven't seen anyone film like that. I mean, I've I've seen people talk about it like that. I'd I'd had already read the article that one of the professional bass fisherman was planning on using glasses. And I don't know if he was planning on using the same ones that you used or or what. But, it seems like, that was a really interesting idea, and I liked how you just I liked how you did it. But it's certainly a a subject that is hot right now. Like, where are we going with all this? And you have probably spent more time with that furthest edge of the technology, like, wearable than of anybody I know. So where do you think we're going with this?

Jon B: Man, talk about a loaded gun of a question. I I think it it could go it could go either which way, really, at this point. And the the the the the biggest variable I think that lies within this issue is not all ang not all anglers are alike. And that comes from a point of view of their their fishing styles, what they're fishing for, whether they'd be fresh or salt. A walleye guy is a completely different human being than a bass guy. You know? And same goes for a musky guy and a snook guy and a tarpon guy. So you not only have a a bunch of different humans that have their own opinions, but you've got these different anglers that have subscribed to their fish of of choice. So I think it's I don't think all anglers think the same across the board. And I think the the while the biggest upper is coming from, it seems like bass anglers, the biggest support and embracement is also coming from bass anglers. Where, you know, maybe I'm not paying attention, but I don't really see this talk technology being implemented as much in, you know, regions that, where you find a lot of saltwater anglers, especially on, you know, the Northeast. I haven't spent a whole lot of time, you know, in Florida and in that region, but it just doesn't seem like it's a huge talking point because, you know, people don't either they don't feel like they need it or they just it hasn't reached them yet, or they don't really fully understand the potential of what LiveScope can do for an angler. And I'll give you an example. I've spent you know, since I moved to Texas, I've spent about four years trying to catch my goldfish, which was a 10 pound largemouth. And I would even every spring of the series, you know, hunt for DD. And, you know, every year I'd fall short of it close. I need to get, like, an eight and a half, a nine. And it wasn't until I really, you know, started using the technology that I had in the front of my boat, which was LiveScope. It wasn't until then that I had not only caught a double digit, but I caught a 14 pounder. I went back to the same lake following a couple weeks. I caught three double digits in one day. And then I went, you know, shortly after my daughter, Mya, was born, went and fished a lake that I'd been fishing for years, and I caught a double digit within the first couple hours.

Tom Rowland: Wow.

Jon B: So you tell me. I mean, it's it's definitely it's definitely giving people, an edge like myself. Right. Yeah. I mean, I'd I had seen a lot of other anglers on social media or, you know, just in the elite series level use it. And I'm like, there's you know, I I think earlier on, I was kinda like, I don't need this. Like, it's fine. You know, this is this is something that either I don't need or it's just gonna be too complicated for me to figure out. Mhmm. Because you gotta think about it like, I've been fishing for quite some time without it, and most people have. And I think that's where a lot of hesitancy comes from. So there was a bit of a learning curve there, but I just, you know, spent a lot of time going out to local lakes and not catching fish most of the days, but wanting and dedicating myself to learning that technology. And it doesn't come easy. It's not something that is something you could just plug and play and and you're gonna get big fish. But, you know, I I really relied on it. I started using it, and the results were there. I mean, I went from not even probably ever getting close to even hooking one, that being a 10 you know, double digit 10 pound fish to then now having a couple under my belt, which is it's crazy. It really is. Yeah. And for those of the people that argue that it, you know, it it doesn't make a difference or, you know, like, it's you can still catch big fish. Like, you absolutely can't. You can absolutely catch big fish and world class fish without it. However, there is a noticeable edge to using that that allows you to

Tom Rowland: Are you seeing the noticeable edge in the, I mean, the the the topic is really big in the tournaments. Right? Like, a lot of people are

Jon B: Yeah.

Tom Rowland: Wanting to ban it in tournaments, and and that's fine. We have similar thing in, in Saltwater in the in the Marlin tournaments. There's a there's a technology that is out there that allows the people who have the boats that can basically have to build a new boat or they have to it's hard to retrofit, But it's a transducer that goes down. You can see way out 500 yards or whatever, and they can see a Marlin. And they can

Jon B: Wow.

Tom Rowland: I mean, it's gotten so good that, they're not banning it, but they're making certain divisions for that. If you have that, then you're in that division. You don't compete with everyone else, which I think is fine. Right? But it's it's tough in a in a bass tournament, I think, to to do it like that. But are you seeing, the it reflected in the the tournament scores and the weights and the and I mean, I've seen on social media, there have been several tournaments, bass tournaments lately, that the winner is saying, I got 14 bites. I saw it I saw it all happen, right, on this technology. And then you'll have other people that are, like, well, it should be banned, which I don't know. I mean, that's a that's a real interesting conversation because there there's that that never seems to really work out very well or as intended, right, to ban things or to and and, certainly, I don't have the professional bass fishing experience, but I do we do have these tournaments in The Keys all the time, fishing tons of them. And, somebody will do something that no one else thought of. It's perfectly within the rules at the time, like using a trolling motor or, I don't know, using a larger boat than than is traditionally there, which for the most part, someone would think, like, if it's a mostly skiff tournament and people are polling and and, and fishing for shallow water fish, and someone comes shows up with a 26 foot, offshore boat, it's like, good luck. You're not catching anything with that thing. But as soon as they win as soon as they win and they do something different, then they're like, well, I don't think that you should be able to fish it out of that boat, which all this whole time has been considered a disadvantage, and they would let anyone get in there. But now, as soon as somebody wins, it's an advantage. And so then it's like, okay. Well, you can't fish out of that boat. Well, then people will start to figure out, okay. Well, if I can't do that, then what can I do? And they typically become better. Like in fly fishing, you'll have, like, you know, in the in the world championships of fly fishing, you'll have, a rule that says no strike indicators. K? That was the birth of European nymphing because, okay, if you can't use a strike in the if you tell all these incredibly good anglers that they can't use this thing that works, Then they figure out another way that they can do the same type of fishing without it.

Jon B: They adapt.

Tom Rowland: They adapt, and then they and not only do they adapt, but now we have European nymphing, which is, like, that was the way they got around not using a strike indicator. And so I don't know where this is going. Like, if you ban this, then where does it go? Because these anglers are amazing, and they're trying to win money. And these are the guys, like, you know, you stay up late. You're you're you cannot sleep at night. You're staring at the ceiling thinking, how do I catch that fish? How do I catch that fish? What do I need to do to catch that fish? How do I do something that someone has never thought about before? Is this a craziest idea, or am I gonna just go try it? Lot of them turn out to be just the craziest idea that don't work, like little contraptions you make or whatever. And then you have something, and it works, and nobody else has thought about it. And so I I just wonder, like, banning a technology, does that what does it do? Like

Jon B: Right. I think just to touch on some of the things you said, but, you know, I wanna really start from the beginning from, you know, what I've learned about LiveScope. And one of the things that really sticks out to me is that this is not new technology. LiveScope has been around for, you know, over I I wanna say half a decade. I believe it's the technology has been there available to consumers for over six years, and it's something that I actually hopped on very early, but not from an open water standpoint. I remember when they first came out with, I believe it was a nine inch screen, and it came as a ice fishing bundle. And it was one of the early transducers that didn't rely on the black box technology, which gives you a little bit better of a, little bit better feedback and reading on the bottom and the fish and whatever is moving down there. And I would use that in Illinois. I'd use it in Maine, and we would catch lots of fish with it. You know, for whatever reason, I don't I don't know

Tom Rowland: why this is You're using that through the ice, or are you using that in other other applications? Only through

Jon B: the ice. Okay. Yeah. It was a it was a it was a, like, a little, like, almost like a lunchbox Yeah. Bundle. It had a handle on it. Your transducer was attached to a pole, and you'd cut one hole for the transducer, and then you dice fish out of the next. And this was in, like, '20 I wanna say 2018, 2017. I mean, I got it when it first came out. I was like, this is cool. You know, because we had used a device called, like, a flasher previously, which is, you know, Marca made one and Vexar made one, which is very similar technology. You're seeing the fish in real time come up to your bait, but it's just, you know, you the fish is a red line, a thicker red line, and your lure is a very thin red line. So similar technology, much bigger cone, a lot better visual reading. And this is this is something that I I use strictly for ice fishing. And I don't know why I didn't I didn't see an application for it in the freshwater world, the saltwater world, and open water. Other people did, and they hopped on it. So I think this conversation what I'm trying to get is this conversation is so hard to have because this isn't like this is something that just came out a year and a half ago, two years ago. People are wanting to ban something that has been very well established in the world of fishing for a long time. But going back to what you're saying, you know, with some of these saltwater fishing tournaments and, you know, where you've got a guy all of a sudden using a small boat or using something a little bit different to their advantage that has always been available, it then gets a certain demographic of anglers upset. They throw their arms up and they say, well, he can't do that. We should ban this because it is something they didn't think of. And fishermen are are very they're very susceptible to want to, you know, give pushback when another fellow angler has figured out something or cracked the code before them because they see it as maybe a disadvantage. And I think that's one of the biggest things with LiveScope is it's not only something that gives other anglers such a big advantage, but it's also an item that for most people, is is without of their financial reach. Right. It's not like, you know, someone like Kevin Van Dammer, professional bass angler caught all their fish on a a new color of crankbait. Anyone can go to the store and buy that color crankbait. But now that you see these professional anglers very much and and heavily relying on LiveScope, which is at bare minimum, all said and done, a 2,003 thousand dollar install, from from purchase to shop, that's something that not all of us can can go out and buy. So I try to play both sides of the fence here. You know, I see I see both perspectives. But to say that it's gotta be banned, I don't think that's you know, this is this is America. We're very the patriotic folks, especially anglers are gonna say, you know, that word just we don't like. I might rather see it going in direction like you're saying with some of these, saltwater tournaments is to to mitigate that. You have a different division. I could see that happening. But, you know, I see it I see it on people's boats more than I than I don't see it on people's boats, that being the LiveScope transducer or Hummingbird's version of Lawrenceburg.

Tom Rowland: Fast. Version. I mean, remember It does. Not very long ago, there were no power poles on on Mhmm. Many boats at all. And then Yeah. Then saltwater guys, we I mean, it was invented in our style of fishing, and but we all had single power poles. Now, the Bass Anglers got a hold of it, and we're like, well, I want two of them. And

Jon B: Two. Yeah.

Tom Rowland: Now everyone has two. Right? Like, I mean, it's just so common. OEM even. Like, they will come out of the factory with two power poles. And so it happens so fast. And and what happens, I think, in this technology is that it has been out there for a while, but somebody finally started winning with it. Right? Or or multiple people started winning with it. And then someone says, well, that's I'm not I'm not good at that, or I I don't Right. How can you compete with that if you're not good at it? Well, the you know, how can you compete with I don't I don't know anything. Like, at some point in that person's career or anyone's career as a professional angler, there was something that they weren't good at, and they realized I have to be good at that or I can't compete here. Like, in a say you're a professional bass angler or redfish angler. Like, I I we we fish the professional redfish tournaments for a number of years. It's different in Florida than it is in Louisiana, and it's different in Louisiana than it is in Texas. And we might be dialed in on-site fishing redfish in Florida, and you go to Texas and you have no idea what to do, and you get blanked. And the Texas guys do great, and so you can either say, well, I I can't compete, and I'm gonna just go back and guide in Florida. Or you can say, if I'm going to compete, I'm gonna have to get really good at fishing in this water that I literally can't see one half of an inch in. I've never even fished in that kind of water before, so I'm gonna have to learn how to do that or I can't compete. So that's where I think that these these, the bass tournaments may be going is, like like, if you wanna compete, there are gonna be certain lakes and certain conditions that you it's gonna be won or lost with this technology. And Yep. You know, you're fishing with the big boys. So it's like, if it costs $50,000 to to line your boat out the way it needs to be for you to win, are you there to win? Are you there to to participate? Like, I mean, there's gonna be certain issues

Jon B: that are, like,

Tom Rowland: dude, I'm here to win. I'm a do whatever it takes to win within the rules. And if this is within the rules and everybody else is using this technology, if I'm not using it, I don't stand a chance, I guess. Or maybe maybe there's a way that, you know, whatever's new is old again or whatever's old is new again, and maybe you know, like, there were a couple of, I remember some bass tournaments where people, were fishing for very spooky fish, and they turned all their all their, sonar off. I think it was like, Takahiri, won a won a bass tournament, and he he turned off

Jon B: was him?

Tom Rowland: I I think he turned everything off. And it's like, okay. Well, if everyone is using that, and then all of a sudden you stop using it or you use it just to locate the fish and then you then you turn everything off, I don't know. Maybe that's an advantage at some point instead of you know, it makes noise. Right?

Jon B: Yeah. I I was talking to my friend about that, like, the ebb and flow with not only fishing, but just how fish in nature. Like, they're, they're always evolving. I'm, like, a big believer in fish are fish are very versatile. You know, you see it with highly migratory species like striper, for example. Like, it seems like every year, whatever the variable is, you see these these interesting differences in where they tend to push up into whether that be a certain river where they don't normally go in, or they'll start they'll stay in ponds longer than normal. I mean, you know, maybe it's more common than I think, but I was hearing guys up in New England catching holdover stripers, when it was practically, like, 30 degrees out in ponds in ponds. Like, these ponds are four feet deep all the way across. So fish are always always keeping us anglers on their toes. And one thing that my buddy never saying is, like, just as just as soon as you think you know everything about that fish, you could be fishing for a specific species or all the species for fifty plus years. There will be always something that happens on the water that makes you think. That was weird. I've never seen that before.

Tom Rowland: Right.

Jon B: And, you know, one of the other conversations that I was having with someone else is you're seeing a lot of these guys on forward facing. So I really focus on the on the, basically, the outer water, the out the off the bank, anywhere from, you know, fishing these huge main creek channels where it seems like they're fishing nothing, to focusing on isolated pieces of structure that no most normal people wouldn't wouldn't fish or be able to stay on without the tech. So, you know, you're seeing a lot of fish that we didn't originally realize out there floating in 30 to 20 feet of water. Those fish are, you know, arguably impossible to catch with or with like, without live scope or or forward facing sonar. And those fish are, over time, probably gonna become a little bit more vulnerable. So I'm wondering if you'll see a push of fish going back up shallow or more fish going up shallow because previously, you know, you see a lake, you see a lay down, any sort of visual structure that's close to the bank, that's gonna be what you fish. And over time, fish have become less and less prominent on the bank unless it's, you know, spawn season or something like that.

Tom Rowland: Right.

Jon B: So I I I So what could happen It's an up and flow.

Tom Rowland: Like, if you think about that and you you kinda project that out a little bit, you could have someone that doesn't have the technology or is not very good at using it, or as good as the rest of the field. So I I can't compete with them out there, so I'm gonna go do my thing over here, and they catch the fish in shallow water, win the tournament. Then it's like, do you say, well, does is this should it be banned now? Like, now somebody won with Right. Without. Right? But I don't know. I think that, and also, there the I know what it's gonna do first is that as soon as you start talking about this thing works so well that you're going to need to ban it, you're gonna start selling a ton of them. Right? Yeah. Because everybody Yeah. It's like guns. Right? Yeah. Like, I mean, but, like, a weekend angler you know, and let's say a weekend angler that can afford it and is just like, look, I just wanna take my kids out there and catch as many fish as we possibly can and create a fishing buddy for life. Right? And he's all into the tech, and he loves, like, seeing these things like it's a video game, and that's how he gets that's how somebody gets their son out there. Okay. Awesome. Take you know, as a dad, I'll take it any way I can get it. Right? Like, if that's that's why my kid wants to go fishing with me, then awesome. Let's go. And then eventually, you know, maybe, oh, the battery died, and, it just turned off. Sorry. And now this fish is the old way, you know, or or something. But it I I think that Absolutely. It's a it's a real interesting, topic. And your video is just, like, I think it's like the the tip of the iceberg. What kind of kind of, response are you getting on your video, this latest video?

Jon B: Just, you know, the typical either this is such a interesting this is such an interesting project you film or the complete polar opposite that being, you know, this just gave me a reason to unsubscribe. So very hot and cold. And like I said, I like to play both sides. I'm I'm a big devil's advocate guy, so I, you know, I don't always try to put myself in the position of thinking that whatever I create is is right. However, I think a lot of people that were commenting negatively might not have finished the video because at the end, I really kind of left it up in the air, but then gave my 2¢. You know, I think I think a lot of people were like I don't think anyone was saying, like, they're gonna go out and buy an Apple Vision Pro and do this themselves. But I think most of the positive response came from, like, this was a cool experiment, which was the goal. It was an experiment, and, ultimately, it was it was to show anglers what could happen. Because I think if I made a video similar to this, but just with the forward facing sonar technology eight years ago, it would have given a very dystopian vibe as well. Like, kind of people were saying, like, this guy just stared at his screen all day and looked at his bait. Like, that's crazy. Whereas now, that's the normal. Yeah. So just like everything in in the facets of of our daily lives, like, things that that seem outlandish at first tend to become the social norm. I'm, you know, I'm I'm hoping it never gets to that point where we see people walking around on docks and marinas with goggles on, but who's to say that that won't take hold on a certain demographic of angle? I mean, look at where we're at now. And, you know, I I'm not saying that I don't want that to happen, but I think it's up to you as an angler, your eyes an angler, and everyone else to figure out where they what they really wanna get out of fishing.

Tom Rowland: Right.

Jon B: And at the end of the video, I mentioned what I wanna get out of fishing is I wanna really focus on the memories I'm making. I wanna focus on the natural beauty. I've gotten the privilege to fish some of the coolest bass fishing lakes in the world, and they're not necessarily so cool because the fishing was great at the time. It's just the scenery. It's how blue the water was. It's some of the people that we got to meet there. You know? And I don't think any of that could have been been achieved if I had been, you you know, if I had been wearing some goggles on my head.

Tom Rowland: Right.

Jon B: So I guess, yeah, long long long answer form of your question. It was it was pretty mixed. Yeah.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. Yeah. But on the other hand

Jon B: we're not happy about it. We're not happy.

Tom Rowland: On the other hand, if you look at, I don't know, take anything. Take a take a heart rate monitor. This is what we were talking about yesterday when we were we me and the guys here watched your video, and then we were just having a little discussion about it. I was like, well, take anything. Take a heart rate monitor that you, you know, it wasn't very very long ago that you had a strap around your chest and you had a you had a watch, and that was that was your heart rate monitor. And then you rewind a little bit further, and the heart rate monitor was only available in a hospital, and you would, you know, have to be hooked up to this thing. And the thought of running a marathon while you're wearing a heart rate monitor was crazy. Right? But they get smaller and smaller. They get cheaper and cheaper, and then it becomes a wearable. And and now you have Apple watches and and other watches that have heart rate monitors built in. You don't even have to wear the strap, and it looks like a regular watch, and and you have regular watches that have your heart rate on there and are giving you even more data than you were getting before. Even more data than you were getting or or like the cell phone. Right? Like, we we it used to be, like, just a phone, then it becomes a smartphone, then it becomes like an iPhone, then it becomes like everybody's got one. But Right. And that's where this could go too. It's like, of course, it looks silly for you to be wearing the scuba mask looking thing and being out there fishing, but you did this video at the perfect time. Right? Like, because it's glitchy. Like, every you were you were moving around, and when you would move too fast, it would kinda glitch and you would lose the screen.

Jon B: It sucked. Yeah. It it wasn't great from that that point of view. Yeah.

Tom Rowland: So we're not quite there yet. But

Jon B: fast forward a little bit. Like you're saying, things get smaller and things get easier to use and the technology grows bigger and better, then we could see the goggles turning into Costas.

Tom Rowland: A contact lens.

Jon B: It's a chip that you plug into your yeah. Contact lens. Even if you wanna go to that that that degree. Yeah. It's not possible to to imagine that coming to fruition one day. I mean, who knows?

Tom Rowland: Not even Yeah. And and you have the just like you have a a the choice of you can stare at your phone all day long and scroll Instagram or YouTube or anywhere else on your phone, or you can keep it in your pocket and use it whenever you want to. Right? Like Mhmm. That's where this goes too. It's like, is it gonna ruin fishing? I mean, I don't know. If you let it Yeah. Right? Like, fishing is such a thing. You can still go out there in a canoe with one rod and a handful of lures and be out there with no electronics on a quiet lake and have the same experience that you did a hundred years ago. Or

Jon B: Right.

Tom Rowland: You can do it differently, right? Like, you can do this. But I think where the real controversy is is how it affects competition angling. And you have a lot of competitive anglers of of wildly different generations, like high school anglers, which are obviously going to gravitate to this technology much better than Bill Dance. Right? Or, you know, somebody that's at the twilight of their career, which they might. You never know. I mean, some of those guys are like, this is what I've dreamed about my entire life being able to see this, and here it is. Mhmm. And I'm gonna try to figure out how to use it. And some of them might get really good at it.

Jon B: Yeah. Absolutely. I think I do think you're seeing a more of a younger demographic taking hold of this. And one of the biggest, like, cliche arguments has been, well, it's a it's a younger guys that are getting this because they've grown up playing Xbox and, you know, they're always on their phone, things like that. I disagree. I think what has happened over the years is you've had a lot of younger guys, who've grown up watching these elite series anglers who who are anglers who are fishing for hundreds of thousands of dollars. Like, this is like the NASCAR of of the bass fishing world. And they've seen these guys, and they know how good they are. And bass fishing is all about, like, what we were talking about previously, finding that edge, whether it be just the smallest little thing to custom painting your own crankbaits or being one of the first guys to lock down your settings on LiveScope to figure out the transducer orientation to basically just, you know, being an absolute wiz at your, of your your graphs or whatever. So when whether it be something so small or so large, those young guys are so eager to do that. I think some of these older guys, they've they've felt comfortable. They've been in their lane forever. And, and now it's like, you know, these these young dudes are ambitious. They're hungry, and it shows. You know, one of our one of the last couple last couple events that, you know, Bassmaster put on, not a single guy who who plays first was over the age, I believe, of 25 years old. And one of them was the youngest angler ever to win an opens, or sorry, not an opens, in a lead series event.

Tom Rowland: And was that all with this technology?

Jon B: No. It wasn't. It wasn't. It I I wouldn't say the majority of of his catches were with the help piggybacked off that technology, but he caught some pretty pivotal pivotal catches just being a really good angle. That's the other two. It's not just, like, you know, I have this technology. I'm not going out and having the best day of fishing my entire life. I don't fish as much as I used to and as much as I'd like to to really get good at that. So, it's all about, like, who has the tool. Like Right. Sword like, you know, you could be really good with a a this might be a bad example. Like, you might like, a sword can do a lot of damage, but it's only as good as the person wielding that sword that that that piece of equipment is able to excel. Same thing goes for, you know, any sort of technology, a a rod, a reel, graphs, a boat. So That's interesting. I think I think it is gonna cause a bit a bit of an uproar.

Tom Rowland: But but You know what else is is that I never really thought about until till right now, and I and I have seen this with other technology, is that if you think back on some of the best days of fishing that you ever had, you know, you go somewhere, you're catching fish, and they they stop biting or something happens and you're like, well, time to go. And then you leave and you look into this other situation that had you stayed, you would have missed it. And it happens in salt water all the time. You can have a bait blitz or something going on or you you you run into something that's just a fleeting opportunity, and you just happen to come across it because you left this spot over here. But had I had the forward facing sonar, and I'm like, well, they quit biting, but they're still there. So we're gonna stay here. Then you miss these other opportunities that you may have run across. You know what I'm saying? Like Yeah. It could be a disadvantage too. Like, you find some fish and you're like, man, we we gotta we gotta stay here. Look at them. There's there's a thousand fish here. We've gotta be able to catch them. And for some reason, whatever reason, they don't bite. You don't move or don't like what your instinct told you to do.

Jon B: I definitely I definitely think that there is, you know, disadvantage of it too. And, you know, take for example this year, like, I I mean, I I I tend to I pretend to be a victim of chasing fish around too much on my screen, because I because I know their bass. I've gotten good enough with it now that I know that their bass are not carved. They're not, you know, gar. And sometimes those fish don't wanna eat. I'm just not getting the bait in the right position. It's windy. I'm not able to stay on them. And I found when I have those moments, like, I just I just kinda unplug from a bit. I'm like, listen. Like, this is frustrating. I'm following around fish that don't wanna eat, period. So I'll just go to the bank and just kinda fish how I've always fished. And it's it's worked out. Like, every I haven't caught too many big fish this year, but most of the big fish that I've caught this year have been just blind casting. You know? That's weird. That's even a term now, blind casting. That's what fishing is in in in general. But, you know, just kinda fishing it fishing a damn, fishing something that I know is gonna work for largemouth, and it's it's it's been great. Like, I had a session just not too long ago where we're just beating the bank, and it's two feet of water. We caught tons of fish, more than I have all season long using LiveScope.

Tom Rowland: Wow. Yeah. I don't know. It'll be an interesting interesting kind of period here. But I think the more you the more you fight against it, the more the more it comes for you. That's what I think. And if you just kind of accept it and but I don't know. I don't know the I don't know the, I mean, there could be, you know, for tournament organizers or or other people, there could be challenges that they see that I don't I I don't understand because I don't run a tournament. But what I did notice in your video Sorry.

Jon B: I'm having some technical difficulties here.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. No problem. What I did notice in your video is that the the the way that you had that, and I could see you fishing, and I could see what you were looking at, and it made it way more exciting. So I would think that as from a, from a, a fan perspective watching a fishing tournament, if you had access to be able to see, like, what was in your video, it might it might increase the, the fan, interaction over time.

Jon B: I I had the same I had the same thought. I I thought it would I thought it would be kind of clunky doing the whole, like, screen while actually watching and recording from the viewpoint of the headset. But I was telling Cale who films we make, you know, videos together. I was telling him, like, this is super convenient. Like, just be able to show people the perspective of what I'm seeing and then not having to, like, you know, do a video of the screen down in front of me. Like, if that's your thing, like, if and there are a lot of YouTubers out there, fishing YouTubers that heavily rely on, creating content around, livestock fishing, forward facing, and it can be interesting. I must admit, like, it's cool to watch fish react to a bait and see their nature underwater in real time. But if that's your if that's your thing, like, it actually is a a pretty good duo having it popped up right there. And and some people did like it. They appreciated that. They were like, this is pretty cool. Yeah. But that's not probably the videos I'm gonna be most gravitated towards personally. You know?

Tom Rowland: I think what you're doing on YouTube is is you're you're you're starting conversations, and this is a conversation that I believe that some people don't wanna have. They just think, no. Don't want it. This is gonna ruin fishing. Don't wanna talk about it. Don't wanna see video about it. I don't know. I think, you know, we that's where we are in this country is not having conversations about things that you might disagree with. And that's what I appreciated about your video is that, hey, at least you're willing to take this on. You You knew it was gonna be controversial. You know it's gonna be controversial. There's gonna be some people that just absolutely hate it. Probably lose some subscribers, but you're probably gonna gain plenty.

Jon B: Sure.

YouTube, Long-Form Content, and Staying Relevant

Tom Rowland: But that's not what it's about at this point in your career. Right here, it's like this is a conversation starter, and this is a conversation that needed to be had. And from what I can tell I mean, maybe other people have done this a whole bunch, but you have the largest platform. You're the one that I know, and and I get to see your video. And I thought it was I thought it was interesting way to to start the conversation. So maybe we've talked about that enough. I wonder about, like, YouTube and and where I've I've noticed, like, some of your content changes. Like, over the years, you've been doing, you know, two hour things or an hour and a half or an hour long thing. What what is the status of of YouTube now as far as you're concerned in, content creation and where you're finding, your viewers wanna watch? Like, what is what type of content and what length and those kind of things? Have you noticed that changing over the years?

Jon B: Absolutely. I've been you know, I've I've had the the luxury of being on YouTube for so long, so I've gotten to see it evolve, you know, even outside of, like, a software update standpoint. I've got to see it evolve, into this this ever growing machine where the people tell the platform what they want. So YouTube is really good about listening to their viewers no matter what video viewers are watching. You know, they take in view duration. For example, like, it used to be a lot of the it used to be from my perspective, maybe a a couple years ago, it used to be a lot of the shorter videos, the quick, whippy, kind of just like boom boom boom fast cuts flows, videos maybe five to ten minutes long. Those videos were what the what what people wanted to watch. You know? And, like, that those videos would generally do good. Not just for me, I'm taking, you know, an outside look of YouTube as a community, other videos that more popular creators are posting. And then it seems like there has been a little bit of a shift over the past, you know, maybe one or, like, two years, where long form content is getting a lot of attention. And I'm, unfortunately, don't know for sure if that's based upon the fact that, you know, a longer video by default is gonna have a longer view duration. So, therefore, then YouTube's algorithm picks it up as it being a a better video or if that's actually what people are wanting to watch. And I've heard some anecdotal, perspectives on that. I've heard so I've talked to some viewers and they say, listen. Like, your longer stuff, like, you know, where you film in Louisiana chasing redfish or, you know, the casting concrete videos were like it's an hour long video. We just turned that on in the TV room. We just kinda watch it periodically. We'll be doing whatever chores, and we'll kinda just turn to it and and and catch a couple minutes within that. So that was the other thing too. I was like, I was like, you can't do that with a five minute long video. Like, you can't do it with a ten minute long video. And I personally like filming the long form stuff. You know? Like, I grew up watching these guys, like, you know, like I've mentioned previously, Bill, Dan, Hank Parker, those dudes. And that's kinda you know, I still wanna hold true to, like, their style, and their style is about telling a story and and taking you along with putting you in the boat with them. So that's that was my thing. And I I feel like I can only do that in long form because I wanna tell a story from start to finish. But, yeah, I I think I think it has has changed a lot. It's it's difficult to to figure out the full scope of it and where it's going. And one of the most challenging things I find for myself is, you know, like, what how can I keep afloat? I've been I've been doing this forever, and it's it's easy. Like, I'm not an I'm not old. I'm get I feel like I feel like I'm old, but, you know, I'm not I'm not old to the point of, like, my age wise, but I'm I'm old as far as being on YouTube old. Mhmm. So I'm I'm someone who's been around for a long time, and I've seen a lot of other channels. Fishing and nonfishing just kinda die out. And I don't wanna say that's like a nightmare for me, but it's something I worry about because I always wanna be creating content in some way, shape, or form. And I still, to this to this day, believe YouTube is the best opportunity to do so. You know? It it it's it's any you know, anyone can do it. Literally, anyone can do it. I think that's the beauty of it. And they can make a living off of it. Yeah. Take me, for example. I had no mastermind plan. I just kinda stuck with it for a long time.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. I think that seems to be that seems to be the way. But the ones that die out, I think I don't know. It seems like it could be incredibly fatiguing to have to be in a situation. And I don't I don't really think that your videos are like this, but a lot of people make videos that they have to one up themselves every time. And it gets harder and harder and harder to come up with a new idea or or a new trick or whatever, whether that's fishing or or anything else. Right? Like, it could be trick shots. Right? Like like like dude perfect or something. Like, how are they gonna continue to come up with something new and Right. Interesting? And I would think that

Jon B: That's a perfect example. That

Tom Rowland: would be so hard to do. Yeah. Or if you create this character for yourself that, like, you're gonna be this character and it's not who you are, and you have to wake up every day and do this character. Like, that seems also tough.

Jon B: Yep. That is tough. And that's why it's easier than I think for me to do what I'm doing than most people is because I I'll put a I mean, I'll I'll put a little energy behind it, but I'm the same person that you see in the videos in in real life. You know, I'm not doing anything, like, not putting on this, like, this fake face, and nothing against people who do that. I totally understand the approach and

Tom Rowland: Sure.

Filling a Void: Casting Concrete

Jon B: And and, you know, what whatever it it it takes to kind of put an edge on YouTube. But for me, it's like, I think the one thing I'm focusing on, one thing I tell a lot of people who wanna get into it, I was like, I I always tell people fill a void. You know, like, what you're saying is, like, trying to one up yourself. I think a lot of people try to one up other people. And I was I I used to do that a lot. I would try to either you know, I'd see a video go viral and be like, okay. I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna do the same video. I'm gonna do better. And it would do good. Whatever. But it wasn't mine. It didn't feel like something I actually had a stake in. It was just something that I, for lack of better terms, carbon copied and then maybe put my annotations on it. So I try to tell people to fill void, and that's what I'm trying to do right now is I feel like over the past couple of years, there's this huge void of, like, people anglers specifically filming videos that heavily relate to the the masses of fishermen. And that is people who don't have a boat. They don't have a expensive truck, and they don't you know, they may not have they may have a kayak. They may have a pelican kayaker. They may just have, like, a couple hours of fish after work on on the bank. So one thing that Caleb and I have been trying to do is get back to casting concrete, which was a series that really brought back the channel when I wasn't doing so good when it felt like I was kinda going off that edge and maybe, you know, having to figure out a different career path. And casting concrete is just all about, showing people that they have amazing fishing opportunities right there in their backdoor. And it's fun to film. People can heavily relate to it, and it's, it's just something different. And I don't see too many people doing that. It used to be popular. Urban Fishing used to be, like, a huge thing on YouTube. Yeah. But it it seems like people just like you said, like you said, maybe got too caught up in this this one way streak of just do do do. Let's see if we can, you know, keep keep one up in ourselves.

Tom Rowland: Right. Yeah. I like the I like the, the the Florida one. I saw, my friend Ryan Esquierdo there. That was cool. You Yeah. Ryan's a gem.

Jon B: He's such a funny guy.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. He's a he's a good dude. And he's, he's he's he's I I I liked watching him develop also. And he went

Jon B: Yeah.

Chasing Wolfish on the Xingu River

Tom Rowland: In different directions and then finally found his found his way and, has has done a really good job. Dang. Hey. Can you plug this in? It looks like my computer's about to die. And so, that this is the computer when it's somehow over there. Sorry. So tell me one more thing, about wolf fish. That's a fish that is definitely on my list, and I saw that you Oh, man. Did really well with those. So tell me about wolfish. Where did you go? Well, tell me something about that fish because I really wanna catch that fish.

Jon B: Yeah. And off camera, I would love to put you in contact with the folks that we work with. But Yeah, man. So I've got a I've got a really good buddy. I don't you may be familiar with him. I don't know. He's he lives in South Florida. Now his name's, Scott Rose, and he was the first guy ever to introduce me to Peacock Bass. And, you know, we haven't maintained, like, the closest relationship just being far distance, but one thing that always brings us back together is checking off fish on our bucket list. And one of those fish being a a wolfish. We had caught little, little wolfish in the, Rio Negro in Brazil, And, we soon after learned that they get bigger than that. Because the little ones are quite fun. Wanda Duponters, great fun. But then we realized they can get upwards of, like, 25, even 30 pounds. Yes. So Scott's very heavily connected with some some guides in in that region of of Brazil, kind of in, like, the Western region of Brazil where it's actually it looks very different. It's it's it's unfortunately now, been very been a been a symptom of deforestation. So it's, like, all, like, flat grasslands. So he he he proposed that we go down there and fish a river called the Xingu River. It's spelled X I N G U. And there's only a certain amount of outfitters that have access to this river because of the native tribes that live there. They don't want they you know, you you or I couldn't just land a a a plane on that on that strip and just start fishing. It's it's a long process. It requires, you know, a, a very strong bond and relationship between, you know, the people of, of, you know, the natives and the and the and the outfitters trying to set up a operation there. So we flew in small prop plane, and landed, and right there is the river. And, it was pretty cool to kinda check out the town, meet some of the people that, you know, their ancestors have lived their whole lives in the river. And and, you know, that's been that's been where they've been forever, which is crazy to think. And, you know, we got set up and was pretty much like I was like, any any trip like that, maybe you are you know, you've experienced this yourself, you kinda go with it, go into a trip like that with one toe in the water. You're not expecting too much. First of all, like, if someone says we're gonna go wreck them, we're gonna go catch them, that's instant bad luck. Like Right. Shut up. I hate when people are like, oh, we're gonna tear them up. Like, that's shut up. I hate when people are like, oh, we're gonna tear them up. Like, that's instantly just let's just, you know, whatever. So I'm I'm keeping a very open mind about them. Like, you know, my goal is to get, like, a 20 pounder. Maybe not even a 15 pounder. And, we get our bag settled and, you know, one of the guys is like, alright. You guys wanna fish? I'm like, let's go. So we had, we had our rods ready. We hopped in one of the the Jon Boats, throwing these, big big, like, they're I actually had a muskie guide from Canada build me these big spinnerbaits, big bucktails, big trailer hook on the back, huge Colorado blades, heavy wire. And I got that rigged up, and I think first spot we got to take, like, maybe five cast, and my rod just doubles over. There's no way. You know? And this, like, 15 pound, wolfish comes up and just they they clear the air and they spin when they almost like a like a spinner shark, I believe, or like, I don't know, the mako's do that too. Yeah. Certain I know certain sharks do that. Clear the air and just spins and comes right back down and throws the hook in my face. And I was just like, oh my gosh. I was like, no freaking way. I didn't think it would happen that quick. I mean, we're talking, like, less than an hour. And we're all geeking. You know? Scott's a big fish head. Caleb obviously appreciates, you know, this whole moment and and going on these trips. We I caught I believe my biggest was just north of 20. My friend Scott one that was twenty pounds, and we caught endless twelve, thirteen, 15 pounders. The one thing I wanna put in an appendix to this too is from my knowledge and from what I've been told, these fisheries are slowly and slowly becoming more and more scarce. So the Xingu River is a is like the crown jewel of of of this type of fishing. And from what I've been told, it's it's not getting any better because of that deforestation. I mean, hopefully, you're able to take a trip there, and you'll see on the prop plane. It is nothing but, agriculture. And a lot of that agriculture is going overseas to China, and it's it's really sad because

Tom Rowland: So this area that that is now grassland used to be forest?

Jon B: Yes. All of it used to be natural rainforest. And it's so freaking weird, man, because you're you're you're going through all this, like, nothingness, and then boom, there's the jungle and there's the jingu. And it's a it it gives you a feeling of being a little unsettled. It's like, how much you're doing the math in your head. It's like, okay. This has happened within the past couple decades. Like, it's not gonna take long to get to the river. I mean, there's there's obviously laws put in place, but the same people that are upholding those laws and making those laws are also the same people that are wanting more money and more business with overseas, ventures and opportunities. So it really is sad to hear that. But, you know, the wolfish is it it's it's like, I highly recommend anyone. Anyone who's into big fish that likes to jump, throw air, and that was the main target species. That that trip, the peacock fishing was pretty subpar, but that's not why you go. You go there for those fish. And that and it it made me even feel more happy that I went knowing that it's it's you know, that's something that is it's definitely threatened by by that agriculture.

Tom Rowland: You know, you never know. There's been a lot of other, on positive note. There's been a lot of other fisheries that, are in danger. And I've I had, a couple of different people on the podcast, and they told stories about arapaima and other fish where they, you know, they were they were in danger of development and everything. And they went down there, and they, you know, educated the people on how valuable these fish were and, you know Yeah. Anglers coming in and how much money they'll spend, and and they stopped it, you know, and and they they have Yeah. They have, preserved these areas because it's worth a lot more than the crops or worth a lot more than cutting the trees down. And Yeah. You know, it's it honestly, you know, it's an opportunity for someone to to make a huge difference, possibly. I mean, sometimes it you just get run over. Like, you can't

Jon B: you can't

Tom Rowland: change it.

Jon B: But That is a good perspective. That's something morbid about what I'm saying. But Right.

Tom Rowland: But it is possible that they could be educated on just exactly what kind of resource they have there and choose not to allow it or or, you know, stop a a corridor around the river that that allows these fish to continue to and I hope that's the case. But were you, I think so. Fishing, mostly, conventional tackle and spinning tackle? Did you fly fish for them at all? Or

Jon B: Yeah. I'm pretty garbage with the fly. I I liked I liked it

Tom Rowland: a lot. Man. I saw you fishing with Ryan. I'm pretty scared. Oh, you you had a pretty good back cast. It wasn't so bad.

Jon B: But I think my the clown knife the clown knife I caught with him was had maybe, like, 10 inches to my tip of line. So it wasn't it didn't really feel like a fly catch, but yeah. Yeah. I'm I'm I think yeah. It was mostly conventional. I can't imagine one of those on the fly, though. That would be pretty crazy. The strip set would be probably one of the gnarliest strip sets

Tom Rowland: They catch them.

Jon B: You could have.

Tom Rowland: There there are places where they catch them on fly. But I'm interested, like, just going some place and only fly fishing for them is not that interesting to me. I like I like catching them on all kinds of gear. Right? Like, I'm Yeah. Big fly fisherman, but I I enjoy spin fishing and conventional fishing too. And and it's a different experience when one slams a giant lure than it is Yeah. If if you're strip setting on a fly. And I like both. And I like to get them to

Jon B: come up with a fast I'm I'm definitely, like, a fast paced angler, so I like being able to, like, you know, burn in the cast, like, you know, go back and forth. With that, with fly, I'm a little bit more clunky. I think if I really, really pinned it down, I would be more open to to doing it. And those wolfish would be perfect on the fly because they're sitting in only a couple feet of water. Yeah. And sometimes their mouths are hard to to drive the hook in. So if you can get them right of the roof, it would be I I think it'd be a lot better, success rate on getting the boat. A lot of them would throw the throw the bait. I mean, they go nuts.

Tom Rowland: I've I've heard

Jon B: We did I've done some fly with peacocks, but that's it.

Tom Rowland: I've heard some great things about that fish. So that's that one if if someone were to ask me two species on my list, I've always wanted to catch a arapaima and then the, the wolf fish. Those are those are two

Jon B: that are

Tom Rowland: right up there. And and I know that does take some travel. So, you know, it's gonna happen one day. But my kids are all grown, man. One day, you'll be sitting here just like me not very long from now, and and and you're you're it'll be like, damn. Where'd that go? Now I actually

Jon B: do you have a bit of, like, idle idle hand syndrome, like, where it's like you have now you have all this time? Like, you wanted to check some boxes off?

How the Googan Squad Started

Tom Rowland: Well, yes. But, also, you know, you just find yourself getting busy no matter what. Like Right. You know, like, when you're when you have three kids at home and and and things are super crazy, you think, man, if I just had a few minutes. But then when you have a few minutes, then somehow you've you've got more projects and more things that you're working on. But I do, want to do some traveling and, Nice. And and those are two fish that are definitely on my list. Well, I wanted to can we just touch on on Gugan and how that started?

Jon B: Sure.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. Because I'm really interested in that, because I saw it kinda materialize, and and I don't know this I don't know the backstory. I'm sure other people would like to know it too.

Jon B: It's a it's a pretty, nonchalant backstory, at least from my perspective. It depends on which Googan you ask, but it it it kinda circles back to what I mentioned previously when we first got started it, and that is, like, surrounding yourself around people who have the same like minded goal. So I'll try to make it brief. Basically, you know, it it was that kind of wild west of fishing YouTube where it was it was myself. I'll just name them by kind of their channel names. One Rod, One Real, Mike, Lunkers TV, Rob, AP Bast, and there's Alex, Andrew Flair. This goes by Flair now. And, we all were kinda doing our own separate thing, but we're all kinda buds. Like, we would we'd go we'd come together for fishing trips, and we'd have, like, the best time ever, link up, film like these cool collabs, and then we'd go off and do our own thing. And, I I don't I don't know who I think it might have been Rob that proposed, you know, like, guys, let's let's figure out a way to, like, like, make this like a like a business. Like, let's make this like something that where it's not just in vain. Like, we're not just doing YouTube because YouTube is it's it's, you know, the the the it it can go away at any point in time. It's like YouTube is your boss. It's such a crazy concept. So, you know, one one of the thing one of the things that we were trying to do, was trying to get, like, certain brand deals together. And a lot of the brand deals, we couldn't get together unless we were working as a group because we we didn't know we didn't wanna, like, outbid ourselves. We didn't want, like, you know, myself to get a certain amount of dollars and then maybe one of the guys get more money. Mhmm. Because that was just that would mess up the market or maybe I'd lowball too much and that would hurt the other other groups. So we decided to create this business together, which is Phish Media. And then we proposed that, you know, we would all kinda make Texas our central hub. And, that's kinda where we started the business was in Texas. And then from then on, it just kinda got the ball rolling. Like, we started doing content. We, asked a guy by the name of Wes Davis who's from Florida to be our main videographer, and he just kinda took the position on with little to no pay. He, you know, he took on an ownership ownership position. Like, you know, we'll give you a chunk of our our brand and our company if you stick with us and believe in us. So he was our main guy behind the camera and helping with content creation. And, yeah, the ball just started rolling. We we started making videos together. We'd work we worked with a company called Mystery Tackle Box, and they provided us a ton of capital to kinda, you know, roam freely financially as far as what we wanted where we wanted to travel that that weekend or what we wanted to do. And then the conversation came up. It was like, okay. You know, we've got the media business. We're making good money on the on the on the channel and good brand deals. Like, what let's sell let's sell something that's tangible. And that's when we started to do the baits. And, you know, we created, the first couple was like the Slim Shake, Lunker Log,

Tom Rowland: Crack

Jon B: and Crawl, Bandito Bug, and I believe it was the Trenchhog and Modern Worms. We had a pretty good lineup of, like, bass lures that or drag and drop too. And then, you know, that was the good lineup for everyone. North, south, east, west, good, inventory of baits that anyone can fish. And, those were wildly successful. You know, we started off selling direct to consumer and then eventually started, you know, getting guys on, from, like, a back end perspective, like a CEO, like a proper like, proper business folks, sales reps, and they were going around selling our bait to retail. And then our our baits it just seemed like it happened real quick. You know? Like, our baits started to end up in Walmart, Dick's, and Academy. We build a relationship with them and, you know, the the baits it was just nuts. Like I said, it was like the wild west. And, we did that for, like, you know, three years, and and I was still doing it, of course. But now we've got some guys kinda doing their own thing, which is totally cool. And, you know, the the during COVID, it was absolutely nuts. But once that kind of bubble popped, we, you know, we realized we had to change up our game and and started doing, you know, started improving upon content. That's like our big goal now is, like, bringing back, kind of doing our what we were good at originally, and that is creating really good content and, creating new baits and trying to, you know, just take the industry by storm like we did previously. So Yeah.

Tom Rowland: Well, it's really amazing what you guys did. Like, it's really good. I mean, really amazing. And, you know, looking at it from a outside perspective, just like, damn. It did happen fast. And then you just look at it like, how did that happen? Right? Like but it was also something that had not happened because it was so you know, it was it was it was out of left field, really. Like, it was not the I've got somebody on on this. But it was not the the the standard way to go about things. Right? Like, with the standard companies and the standard way and and certainly even even, like, you know, typically, you, were some sort of a champ a fishing champion of some sort, you know, in tournaments, and you major you major I mean, that's how, like, all your heroes that you talked about before. That's it. That's what they did. Like, they made their they made their, I'm just playing there. Their career in in, bass fishing, and they won Bassmaster classic or something. And then that they got them a TV show, and then they got them all these big deals. And then that was kind of a of the way that that was the standard way to go about it. And you guys went about it exactly opposite, or not exactly opposite, but it's certainly certainly a different path that is really cool to watch really cool to watch.

Jon B: Yeah. Yeah. That that was, that was kinda what we what we did is we we wanna do it differently, and our our big driving force was social media. Like, that was like, no one had really tried to sell baits through YouTube before Instagram. And, you know, there was definitely some luck involved in striking while the iron was hot, and we hit it hard. And it, it it proved itself to be really, really successful. Yeah. Which is cool. It wasn't like you said, it was an like, back then, I mean, it, like, it had to be someone like Van Damme or Skeet Reese or Michael Canelli that to win a derby on a on a specific bait and color, and then that's what makes stuff fly off the shelf. But to us, it's like, we aren't gonna go compete in that level. Like, we're we're goo literally, our name is Googans. Like, we, you know, we we pride ourselves on not being the best anglers. But what we want is we want to make people feel like they're entertained. And, you know, we still love fishing, so we wanna create products that we were passionate about. And that blooded outside of baits too did apparel and, you know, line, and we worked with, Catchco to do, rods and and and, you know, the hard bait lines with them. So it it was cool. The evolution process was fun. Like, creating a business like that, having fun with it was some of the best times of my life and still continues to be. I'm so glad we're still able to do this. But right in those early stages, it was just nuts. I mean, imagine most people building the business would say the same thing. The the the rise of the rise and run of that is is is huge.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. Especially if you can if you can look at it and kind of enjoy the process. Because so many times when you're in something like that and you're building something, it's hard to enjoy what's going on. And a lot of times, people look at it from from the future backwards and go, man, those were the best days of my life. But if you have the the wherewithal to realize, hey. It's not gonna get any better than this. Like, look at what we're doing. We're building all this stuff, and most entrepreneurs have that feeling. But very few of them, I think, realize in the moment that these are these are the good old days. Right? Like, these are the days that we're going to remember. And, you know, I think it's I think it's cool if if if you have the wherewithal to to to realize that. Like, doesn't get better than this. But, man, I, I've really enjoyed this, John. I would love to have you come back and, maybe Yeah. I would love to have you come down to, come down to Florida. Let's do some fishing.

Jon B: I'm so down. You know, Caleb's from Florida. So any opportunity that we can get to film down there, he loves it. I've I noticed anyone that is that I've worked with from Florida, it's hard to get them to to leave and and to go film stuff outside of that, like, especially in Texas. Because Florida, I totally understand. Florida is such a amazing place. I've never gone there and had a bad time even outside of fishing. It's it's the freaking best. So I'll take you up on that. And if you're ever in in Texas and, you know, wanted to go do something even a little bit different outside of bass fishing, we've got some really incredible, alligator gar fishing. I'm I'm sure Yeah.

Tom Rowland: That's on my list too. The alligator gar.

Jon B: I would

Tom Rowland: love to do that. Yeah.

Jon B: I mean, I just like to make that happen too.

Tom Rowland: Fish. It's just amazing. Me too. Great beauty and giant ugly fish. So, yeah, I'd love to do that. Well, we'll we'll we'll definitely get together and, and and see if we can do something else. But, also, shout out to, Caleb who hooked us up and a very, very talented young man. I I check out his Instagram and follow him as well, and he's he's very talented. You got a good good you guys are a good team, and you got a good man. I think Thank you. I know you know that, but he's he's very talented. I look at a lot of people's, reels and a lot of their stuff, and and he's he's good. He's really good.

Jon B: Yeah. Caleb's a one zero one for sure.

Where to Follow Jon B

Tom Rowland: Yeah. Yeah. Alright, John. Well, if if people don't know, tell them how they can follow you and buy your stuff and whatever. Be on your team.

Jon B: Yeah. It's just, it on YouTube, it's just Jon B. There are, unfortunately, are two Jon B's. One is an R and B singer. That is not me. It's the one that's the angler. So we just do j o n b. And, on Instagram, it's Jon B r o l l I n. Jon B Roland. Somebody took my last name and also Jon B. So we're rolling with that Instagram handle. And, googansquad.com for any of the baits that we've we've designed over the past couple years and some of the new stuff that we're working on creating. But, yeah, thanks again, Tom. It was such a pleasure speaking with you and hopefully get a chance to link up in person and and, get the wet a line wet no matter what the fish is. Hopefully, some big uglies for sure.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. Well, we can do it in saltwater. I can phone with you that. Alright. Great having you. And we'll see you later. Okay. Come back next week. We'll have another great guest like Jon B. And, hopefully, we'll have some great, conversation just like this one. Alright. See you.