Michael Holland: 896K Followers in 8 Months Teaching MINDBODY Energy Movement

Tom Rowland Podcast — Episode 1004: Michael Holland

In this episode: the MINDBODY Energy Movement, a modernization of qigong, breathwork, Wim Hof, cold therapy, journaling, and taking control of your own health.

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01:37 · From 8,000 to 896,000 Followers in Eight Months

Michael Holland: So I'm Mike Holland of the Mind Body Energy Movement. This is the Tom Rowland podcast.

Tom Rowland: Mike Holland. Wow. I'm really happy to have you here, man. I've been following you.

I don't know. You were you were early on in your Instagram, and every time I look at it, it's bigger and bigger from zero to 896,000 followers in an incredibly short time. How long have you been on there?

Michael Holland: I started, I had a a personal account, but I had, like, 8,000 friends and just family, and that was in April. And and now we are here in January. So however many months that is, eight months.

Tom Rowland: Wow. That's that's, that's really incredible. So why don't we jump right into it? What is the mind body energy movement?

02:23 · What the MINDBODY Energy Movement Is

Michael Holland: So it's like a full body activation that I've it's basically like my modernization of qigong. If you understand qigong and all, qigong is like a large category of just energy and cult it it translates to cultivating energy. So this is like my modernization of it. My background tends to be as an athlete who kinda is more influenced by the Soviet plyometric system.

So a lot of the movements and the way that I teach people to do them have a lot of that influence behind them. And then I am very interested in the mind body connection, so I've added a breath work component to the movement practice that I feel really helps you connect your mind and body through the movement. So it basically turns into, like, a moving meditation and breath work practice kinda all combined in one. But the easiest way to understand it, it's like a modernization of Qigong.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. So how long is it how have you been working on putting this together into any sort of a system or or whatever whatever it is today?

03:29 · The 20-Year Search for the Perfect Warm-Up

Michael Holland: Yeah. So I've been on a journey of finding, like, the most optimal way to warm up your body and get activated my entire life. Like, literally since I was in high school. I studied this speed program.

I was a football player all growing up, and I've always been interested in finding the most optimal way to warm your body up, basically void of every anything else. Like, so I've been do I was doing but prior to this movement practice that I kinda put together and and and launched or whatever you wanna call it, I used to do this Parisi speed warm up, which is why a lot of the movements have some of those movements in them now. So I learned that back in high school, and I carried that all through playing in college. And then whatever, I became a fitness model and, health and wellness was always part of my life.

But I did that warm up every single day of my life for over, like, twenty some years.

Tom Rowland: Explain that warm up. What's different about that?

Michael Holland: It's just like a full body activation. The the big difference with that is there's a lot of, like, lying down on your stomach, on your back. It's just not really I wanted to create a system where you didn't have to do any of that because depending on where I'm at, I'm at the beach all the time. So it's just kinda inconvenient to be covered in sand after I'm done.

Or if I'm traveling, I do not like lying down on hotel rooms. Like, they just kinda gross me out or whatever. I put towel down and still, I don't like it. So I was just like, man, there's gotta be a way where you just don't have to do that.

You can stay on your feet the whole time. So that was kinda how this was influenced in a lot of ways. Mhmm.

Tom Rowland: It's so interesting because like you, I've been on this pursuit of knowledge and and trying to pick like what Bruce Lee said, you know, take what's useful and discard the rest. And everything, over the last few years, like the breath work, I picked up from Wim Hof and was was incorporating that all the time and really I'd heard so much about, like, oh, you should meditate, and you should do this and and and that. And I would try meditating, and it just yeah. I mean, I'd get there every every now and then.

But when I tried that Wim Hof breathing for the first time, I was like, oh, that's what they're that's what they're talking about. And so I was getting two things at once. I was getting the breath work, and then I was getting, the meditation, and I really stuck with that. And then I started to incorporate that in lots of different ways into my training.

But then when I saw what you're doing, like, oh, this is this this guy's got it. Like, you're you're doing what I've been trying to do, but you've put it together in a way that that it's were really working for you. But more importantly, it's working for hundreds of thousands of others. Why why do you think people have gravitated to this or that it has been shared so much or that why is it?

I have my theory, but

06:16 · Why It Went Viral, and Refusing to Charge a Dollar

Michael Holland: I wanna hear yours. I think there's multiple factors that kinda come into play, and we'll have to circle back with Wim Hof because I think what I'm doing is very similar to what Wim Hof kinda did with Tummo Breathing and the Wim Hof method, but we could circle back to that. To answer your question, I feel as if there's multiple factors. One well, as I learn more about social media and understanding, like, hooks, I think I'd have kind of a natural hook when I was kinda doing the movements because I always use these Asian voice overs in the beginning.

And as soon as you hear those that, like, hey. This is Chinese longevity gymnastics or or tai chi or chi gong, and then you see a jacked guy doing these movements

Tom Rowland: Right.

Michael Holland: That maybe you recognize from the old Asian people in the park. So I think there's multiple hooks that I was able to capture just kinda naturally or by dumb luck or whatever. And the videos that I posted in the very beginning were the ones that really, really took off. My videos don't take off nearly as much as they did in, like, the first couple months of me sharing the practice and really, like, fine tuning it.

And there's there's multiple reasons with that as well, but I would just consistently try to understand the algorithm and how Instagram actually works. And and I would learn every time I made a new video. So I doubled down on the trial real future in the beginning. I sensed that got taken away from me after, like, the first month, but I was posting so many trial reels to kind of fine tune because I was was unsure if the my friends and family wanted to see what I was doing.

But then again, you know, my account grew so quick. You know, my friends and family probably don't even follow me anymore. Now it's just people that are actually interested in the value that I'm adding to their lives because that's the only reason that I post a reel nowadays. I'd say At least 90% is just to add value or educate or or add some type of value to to whoever follows me.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. Well, what has has been clear to me is, like, there are a lot of fitness influencers out there and a lot of people that are just trying to do something a little bit different in order to get attention or to get followers. But you have been very consistent in your message of you're just trying to help a million people. Mhmm.

And so where does that come from?

Michael Holland: I just think that's a noble pursuit. I feel like in a lot of ways I don't know what your belief system is, but I feel as I finally found what I'm supposed to do in life. And I don't I don't care about money. I never have cared about money.

I'm all about an even exchange of value. So I believe it's a much more noble pursuit to help millions of people than make millions of dollars. So I've always kind of framed it. I'm a big framing guy.

Like, perception to reality in a lot of in my opinion. So I try to frame things in ways that just make more sense to me. Going back to Bruce Lee, I I I live by that quote. Like, take what's useful, discard what's not.

I look at that in everything that I do. And I guess I I don't know if I answered that question or not. But

Tom Rowland: Well, I mean, I you're also really good at ManyChat. And ManyChat, if you're if you're listening and you don't know what that is, it's an automated thing that you can use on Instagram to, respond to someone in the in the direct messages, and you can send links, and you can send other things. Mike is as good as anybody that I've ever seen with ManyChat. You're really, really good with that.

And I use it myself, but not not as effectively as you do. And I've when we right before we started to, record, I said, I've got, like, 20 of your 20 of your links because, you know, what it'll be is, like, comment yes, and I'll send you this this directions on how to do this flow, or I'll send you breath work, things. And so I keep waiting. K.

This one's gonna cost $20. This one's gonna, you know, be that, but there has there has been zero request for another step, which would be financial. And quite honestly, that's when I really started to pay attention to what you were doing because I was like, this guy's not after anything except that this seems to be working for him. Aesthetically, it's definitely if that's all you're doing, it's really working for you.

And I think that that's one of the main reasons why people are paying attention because you're you know, if that's I think people look at that and go, well, if that's what this guy's doing, that's what I wanna do. Right? With and I wanna circle back to what your training looks like outside of this because I'm kinda thinking that might not all be all that you're doing. But maybe it is.

I don't know. But the the fact that you're not asking for any financial compensation for this is really interesting. And what you're saying is you just wanna help people.

Michael Holland: Yeah. I haven't made a dollar from anything. So

Tom Rowland: Really?

Michael Holland: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I have brand partnerships now, so I don't mind getting money from a $100,000,000 brand. But from somebody who's just trying to take control of their health and and live life on their own terms, I haven't I haven't made $1.

I haven't charged one person nothing. So, eventually, I'm trying to develop this app that I've been working on for, like, months where there will be it'll be a subscription based app. But for for for this whole time, like you said, yeah, I haven't I haven't made $1. But, you know, I still work a normal job and everything.

So hopefully, this becomes my well, I know it will be. This will be my new mission starting once the app gets launched, and then I could travel, do seminars, come to come to you and train train with you guys. And and wherever wherever I'm welcome, I'll go and wherever I can have the most beneficial effects on people. There was a girl I did that contest a while back where where I partnered with a company, and they they just gave cash away to whoever got the biggest group.

And and the girl had, like, 380 students doing. What? It was awesome. You know?

Wow. In Calcutta.

Tom Rowland: I thought I might be in the running. I had, like, 27. I've been waiting. I've been waiting for the email that I won, and and I was way off.

I was way off. Like, 300. That's amazing.

Michael Holland: 380 or 390. All kids all in rhythm doing it. Just again, she she's she's a believer in the system, and she's found benefits. So kids, I've done it with with the groups of kids and it and it's been awesome because kids naturally already can relax and jump around and play for, you know.

They're not worried about how they look really or or the opinions of others. And that's what kind of changes as you get older as an adult. Unfortunately, you care now about how you look, how you're perceived, who's watching, all those different things, and they kinda restrict you allowing to just release that tension or that stored energy.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. Well, the kids have so much stored energy because PE has been taken out of so many schools as you I would you I'm sure you know. And, and kids are just sitting there. And I would imagine that this program, is perfect for that.

You can stand up for ten minutes, do it right there next to your desk, and and the kids could probably feel so much better after doing that. So we've talked, a lot about like, we're talking about this program and that program, but a lot of people that are listening right now don't know what it is. So can you kind of explain, like, how this is something that you can do anywhere and what the what the premise of of what you've put together is?

13:52 · A Practice You Can Do Anywhere With Zero Equipment

Michael Holland: Sure. So the mind body energy movement is a way to teach you to be completely present in the moment, identify where you hold your tension, and kinda teach you how to relax and just be as present as possible. And then as you progress, over time, you'll be able to create this rhythmic breathing pattern where you can connect the movement with the breath. Now in terms of the movements, they're very counterbalanced kinda setup.

So a lot of the movements maximize the hinges in your ankles, knees, and hips, and get allow you to get familiar with with the essentially, just the way that your anatomy is is structured. And what you really wanna do as you progress in the practice is focus more on the breathing than the movement. You should be over time, become so comfortable with the movement that you're not even thinking about it. You're only focused on the breath.

And I truly believe that that's when you can truly connect your mind and body and then optimize the most amount of energy. Now the actual movements, they they vary. There's, like, 20 or 30 movements that I've probably re released at some time. I have a personal practice where I'm so in tune with my mind body connection.

I'm just naturally gravitated towards a certain movement at a certain time. I pretty much start with the same five every time and always end with my horse stance just because that's, to me, the most simple way to test your mind body connection. Because as you put yourself in a very uncomfortable position, what occurs? So your body sends signals to your mind of discomfort, of unease, of panic, alarm.

We don't like this. And then you have to process in your mind whether or not, back to Bruce Lee, that's useful information or not. And guess what? When you're trying to improve your mind body connection, it's not gonna be useful information because you're purposely putting yourself in an uncomfortable position.

So, essentially, with the practice, you're really trying to fine tune that mind body connection where your mind is always in control. You can't let your body dictate the decision that your mind

Tom Rowland: makes. Mhmm. So Man, I am a 100% on board. And I've I've felt this in so many different ways throughout my training in the last thirty years, where I always thought that running was like a moving meditation.

And I when I would run, let's say I had something on my mind or something, I would go out and take a run. I would come back, and things were clear. And I could make a I could make a decision. But But it was like this moving meditation.

Once I would get started, kinda like what you're talking about, you start with those five movements and then you then you don't know where you go after that sometimes probably. Maybe you look back on your video and go, I didn't even realize I did that. That's how it was with me in running. I would, you know, run a couple miles, and there's discomfort and everything, and then you would hit, like, that runner's high or whatever you wanna call it.

And all of a sudden, you know, the miles are clicking by. Your head's clear as it's ever been in your entire life, and you're you're just you're just moving. And I've always done better, like I was saying, that I didn't do well just sitting and meditating. And then when I started doing the Wim Hof breathing, I was getting the benefits that I was told I was supposed to get from meditation, but I wasn't able to get there.

For me, it's moving. And even going beyond, like, the Wim Hof method, to what you're doing, I find it easier to get into the state that I'm looking for with what you're doing because I'm moving. And and I think people are all different. Like, people are different learners.

Some people are kinesthetic learners. Some people need to hear it, and some people need to see it. Now some people need or or or perfectly good at reading it and and and, absorbing the information. For me, if I listen to a book or, I'm listening to something or watching something and I'm also moving, like, if I listen to an audiobook while I'm running, I have really good, comprehension of what I'm reading and retention of what I'm listening to.

But if I just sit there, it's not very good. That's why I didn't do so great in school, I think, because I needed to be moving. But I think that that's one of the things that I've been drawn to what you're doing is that it's this breath work and the movement, and it leads you to kind of a meditate. If you do it long enough or or well enough, it also leads you into this meditation of just, like, this clear headedness that it's hard to get other else otherwise for me.

I don't know. Is that what you're hearing from all these people that are doing this with you?

18:54 · Why Movement Is Medicine

Michael Holland: Yeah. I mean, not everybody is is as well spoken as you and has explained it like that to me. But movement and I try to say it as often as possible. I truly believe movement is medicine.

And especially when you're talking in terms of the lymphatic system. I don't know how much you know about the lymphatic system, but there's no pump for the lymphatic system. Obviously, blood circulation works on the utilization of your heart as the pump. For your lymphatic system, there is no pump.

So you have to be moving in order for your lymphatic system to properly drain. And I think people have gravitated towards the movement practice as well because there's more information out there about the lymphatic system. It's kind of like a trending topic maybe in a lot of ways, especially for women. But if your lymphatic system isn't properly draining, then you could have the stag stagnation around your lymph nodes and build up a fluid, which then, you know, it's very clear.

The the evidence is out. I try to stay away from all the science and stuff because I don't wanna lose people, but blood circulation is essential to live a healthy lifestyle. So in order to get your blood circulating in the most effective and efficient way, you have to be moving. You can't be just sitting, lying around.

We're not built for that. I think we're built more for endurance than anything and constant moving. So that's just my belief system on it. Like, you know, I have no scientific background.

I don't try to be a doctor. I'm not even a personal trainer. I have zero interest in being a personal trainer. I'm simply try to add value to people's lives based on my real life experience of self discovery.

So Wow.

20:35 · From Lifeguard and Catastrophe Adjuster to a Daily Non-Negotiable

Tom Rowland: And so tell me about, like, how you end up here because you what is your job?

Michael Holland: Well, I work part time as a lifeguard on Miami Beach Ocean Rescue. And then my main job for the last seven years was, a catastrophe adjuster. So I would deploy to areas that got hit by hurricanes or flood and estimate all the damages usually on, like, a commercial level basis.

Tom Rowland: Wow. So that

Michael Holland: that's been my job the last since 2017. That's how I ended up in Florida. I got deployed down here for hurricane Irma, and then I essentially set up shop here in Miami Beach, but always deployed to the areas that would get hit. And then I would work.

You've gotta hustle hard for three, four months, however long the the deployment lasts. We work sixteen hour days just every day. And then and then once that works over, it's you go back to your normal everyday life.

Tom Rowland: Mhmm. So And so job for a while. And and as you're, on the lifeguard job too, how how does this daily practice start to, develop for you? I mean, you're all you seem like you've always been an athlete, so you're you're gonna be training in lots of different ways, I would imagine.

But this particular practice, is this like a morning kinda thing that you started doing and then it became an everyday thing? Or what was the evolution of this this program?

Michael Holland: Yeah. So I had the discipline, obviously, from the last twenty five years of my morning activation that I've done from that Parisi Speed School system, and now it's just kinda replaced that. So, this has been my new morning activation. This is my nonnegotiable.

I do the movements three hundred and sixty five days a year. No questions asked. Doesn't matter. Sick, lonely, sad, whatever.

I don't care. I get it done just because it's it's who I am. You know? And but everything after that is extra.

I view it as extra. So if I make it to the gym, if I meet up if I work the beach that day, I train the lifeguards that wanna show up and train with me. I I try to do something in terms of an actually workout, I guess you would say, because I don't consider the the movement practice a workout for me. It's an activation.

Some people, sure. If you're a hundred pounds overweight and your blood pressure's crazy and and you've just been stagnated for the last twenty years, then, of course, it's gonna be a workout for you. Yes. But I would consider myself a pretty fit elite level athlete.

So for me, it's an activation. It it does more for my mind than it does for my body, and that's kinda how I approach all working out.

Tom Rowland: Are you gonna use it as as your I mean, you're saying an activation, is that a warm up before you train with the lifeguards or train on the beach or train at the gym? Or because sometimes I've been using it as a cool down too, which is pretty nice, but the warm up seems to work a little bit better. How are you kind of what do you prefer to do?

Michael Holland: So I've played around with it as a cooldown as well, but not all the movements and not with the same intention behind it. So my intention going into it as a activation pre workout is much different than if I'm going with a cooldown. And I think that's I think that's very important. So you should have an intention going into it.

If you want to cool down, then obviously you're gonna be doing it at a much less lower intensity than than I tend to do the movement sometime because I tend to approach things in a very ballistic plyometric way, loading and exploding the springs, getting my mind very clear and focused on what's to come. And what's to come is usually some element of suffering in a way because that, no. That's what my workouts consist of.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. Mine too.

Michael Holland: Yeah.

Tom Rowland: But this is a good, good preparation for that. Well, in your message, you're also, which I think is is pretty interesting for for the world today is there's a lot of things that we're missing today. And there's a lot more sitting. There's a lot more screens.

There's a lot more kind of stagnation you put as you put it. And so I think that your your program is I think that's why so many people are kinda gravitating to it is maybe a lot of them might think that it it that that is the workout, and maybe it is. It's moving, and that's fantastic because people need to move. But in your opinion, like, where are people the most disconnected or missing in today's world?

What are they missing the most?

24:29 · What People Are Missing in Today's World

Michael Holland: Oh, that's a big question. Maybe what are they missing the most? Maybe they're just overcomplicating things in a way where we're sitting talking about a movement practice that you could do anywhere. You need zero equipment.

You need zero experience. You just you don't even have to be able to stand up. There's a whole seated practice you can do if you're immobile. So it's just I think people complicate things or talk themselves out of it as if they can't do things for whatever reason.

So I don't know if it's a lack of motivation or inspiration or just discipline, but I feel like the world has gotten to a place where people are so reliant upon someone else rather than taking control of their own health. Because at the end of the day, and I believe this wholeheartedly, you're responsible for your own health. Mhmm. And and as soon as you start outsourcing that to your doctor who probably sees 200 other patients or your friends and family or you put it on your kids or whatever the case, it's like people just have to take responsibility for their own health.

And I feel like that is where people need to start is understanding that nobody's coming to save them. Nobody's coming to help them. Maybe a couple 100 people will show up to their funeral if they don't figure it out, but nobody really cares at the end of the day. People you you expire and you leave this dimension, people will care, what, for a couple weeks?

Maybe maybe your closest friends and families will care for a couple years, but life goes on. So to answer your question, I feel like it's just a lack of responsibility that people take. Because I I see people, and and I I don't understand how people can let themselves get so gone in so many ways. And and I know there's all sorts of excuses.

You know? You probably have tons of followers that that don't take control of their health. But at the end of the day, my message to them would be just just do it. You know?

You're responsible for your own health.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. I think a lot of people get in a position to where they they don't they're not in a good physical state because maybe there's in a lot of ways, there's too much information out there, and they don't know what to do, so they don't do anything. And you could take it as as I mean, look. The food pyramid just turned upside down.

Right? Well, okay. Well, you and I knew that it was not right to begin with, but not everybody does, and they're following, oh, this is what they tell me to do. This is what they tell me to do.

And they get sicker and sicker and sicker and sicker until now it's the other way. Oh, I've been doing it all wrong this time, and and so they just don't do anything. And I think when somebody comes along that like you or Wim Hof or somebody that has a simple message, and they don't have to, like, they don't have to buy anything. They don't have to do anything.

It's right there. You already have it, but they don't know how to do it. They don't know how to move. And then maybe they already did know, hey.

When I just swing my arms around, I feel a little bit better. But here's this guy that's showing me, oh, this is exactly how you do it. Right? Maybe.

Right? But, yeah, I mean, it's movement. But what you've done is you've created this this system where people feel confident that if I do that, I'm going to be better. And I think that they are.

Another thing that you, are talking about, which I feel strongly about is, like, the what you're consuming, how important that is. So I I wonder if you could kind of explain that to people that haven't been following you as much as I have about your ideas on consumption, which could be

29:09 · What You Consume Is What You Become

Michael Holland: Mhmm.

Tom Rowland: Other than food and drink. Right?

Michael Holland: Yeah. Absolutely. First and foremost, other than food and drink, everybody hears consumption, and they immediately think, oh, well, you gotta eat clean food and and water and and supplements or what whatever. Absolutely.

But the information you're consuming is infinitely more important than that because, basically, the information you consume and I don't know if you wanna dive deep into this, but Yeah.

Tom Rowland: Let's do.

Michael Holland: Yep. This is all about frequencies and energy. And, essentially, I believe and what the hell do I know? Because I live by Socrates' saying, the one thing I know for sure is I know nothing for sure.

But, anyway, I'm here on your podcast, so I'll express what I believe. I believe that information that you consume in a way is kinda setting the frequency that you're going to exist on. So if we break down that word on your shirt, mindset, your mindset is the mindset so the your mind is set on a frequency or vibration. The law of vibration and is directly tied to frequencies.

So if your mind is set on let's just say somebody consumes news all day. Well, we all know that's it's not showing you positive, inspirational news every day. News tends to be very negative. That's what sells.

We all understand that. Whether or not you're aware of that is an is another story. But let's just say the first thing you do is you turn on the news. Okay.

There's somebody got murdered in South Central LA. Gangs are causing this trouble. Whatever perception you're watching, depending on the news outlet is gonna say this is a horrible thing. We're invading this country.

People killed. All negative stuff. So how could you ever expect your mind to then go immediately towards gratitude? And and I and I'm so grateful to have control of my health.

I'm so grateful to have a roof over my head. So grateful my kids are doing okay in school. Nobody's addicted to drugs. How how why you're not going to think of any of those things because now you're tuned in to the frequency of disaster and catastrophe and and crime and all these negative vibrations.

So why in the world would you ever live life on the higher frequencies of peace, love, joy, authenticity? You're not. You're you're essentially programming your mind to exist on a frequency that if you are aware, you probably would not wanna be on that frequency.

Tom Rowland: Mhmm.

Michael Holland: So that's why I talk about what you consume is essentially what you become. And I feel like everything around you and that's why it's so essential to be and it seems like you do that so well because you have a group of like minded individuals that come, suffer together, train, improve. Obviously, you guys have that Kaizen philosophy, constant improvement, which is a beautiful, beautiful way to go through life because, I mean, that's my whole world. I wanna make people more capable.

And by capable, that means mentally and physically. So consumption, to answer your question, is not just food. Obviously, you should be eating clean real food until you're half full and appreciate every bite. That's that's the end of my nutritional advice for anyone.

It doesn't have to be any more complicated than that. Although I know people 99% of people are not going to listen to that, but just try to do it majority of the time, and you'll be better off than what you're doing. Just eat clean real food.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. That's it. That's cool that you just said that because here on my, first page, I had two things written down there, positive and negative right at the bottom. Mhmm.

And, you know, the law of attraction is basically what you were describing there on the vibration and how what you're bringing in and the vibration that or the the frequency that you're living on and what you draw to yourself. And I I've been a big believer in that for about thirty years now is when I started to understand what that was, and and I saw it play out in real time in my life enough times to go, okay. I'm going to eliminate the negative. I'm gonna stop watching the news.

I'm gonna stop, consuming these this type stuff, and I'm only going to watch uplifting funny things. I'm only going to be around uplifting funny people. I'm only going to, consume the kind of stuff that leads me to the kind of life that I wanna live. And and from what I've been told always, that's the law of attraction.

But there's also one of the things that was so, profound in that journey for me was realizing that there is a difference between positive thoughts and negative thoughts in your own mind and that you can control those and you can choose which ones you're going to allow to continue to think about and which ones you're just gonna try to eliminate. Right? So a positive like, in my in my journey, the the first thing that I came upon that I realized was positive is different than negative was winning versus losing. Like, I hate to lose or I love to win or and one is negative and one is positive and one is negative and could still get you to this place of winning because you hate to lose.

But in the long run, loving to win and loving to bring the people up around you so that you can win as a team and everybody's benefiting, it's such a more positive message. And I just wonder, like, in your journey, if you have encountered different scenarios of the positive and negative mindset and how that's affected just where you are today.

35:28 · Reframing, Journaling, and Controlling Your Thoughts

Michael Holland: Yeah. Of course. A good good tactic that I've learned over the years is reframing. And that's essentially in a way almost what what what you're doing.

It's the same thing, but how you frame it determines essentially how you're gonna perceive it. So the best example that people can kind of implement into their own lives would be when you have to do something and just changing that little word and you say you get to do it. Mhmm. Because you don't have to do many things in life.

You have to breathe air. You have to consume water. You have to consume some caloric intake at some point to survive. We're going to the very basics here of just survival.

Everything after that, you get to do pretty much. So you don't have to do any of those things. So that reframe is kinda seems similar to to what you're talking about, and it's something that I guarantee will improve people's lives if they just pause for a moment anytime they find themselves complaining about what they have to do and understand that they get to do it, and there's so many people across the world that would trade in an instant to be where they're at doing what they believe that they have to do. Right.

So that's what comes to mind when when you talk about that.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. That's interesting. And and you've been able to, kinda convey that message pretty pretty well with with what you're doing. You know, people are drawn to the movement that they're seeing on Instagram, but then you're slipping in these other messages.

How have you found the the the messages to be received?

Michael Holland: So the mindset stuff seems to get you're talking about the mindset stuff, Yeah. More inspirational stuff and all that kind of stuff? I find well, it's it's it's a nice outlet for me because I'm very introverted, and and this is all new to me. But I've been journaling every day.

This is another crazy element of discipline in my life. I learned the journal. I was a big fan of Jim Rohn.

Tom Rowland: Mhmm. You

Michael Holland: know Jim Rohn? He was like the mentor of Tony Robbins. Tony Robbins was just too animated for me. When I was in high school, he was just too much yelling and screaming, and I was gravitated towards Jim Rohn, Idaho farm boy, who was his mentor.

But he would always say he for whatever reason, he just mentioned journaling all the time. So I started journaling in high school. I've journaled every single day. Maybe I've missed a day or two throughout, but but since high school.

So again, that's another element of the discipline that I've had over all that time. And the reason I mentioned that is because I have so much that I've written down and kind of programmed into my mind that it's very natural for me to every day kinda share a quote or saying or something that has improved my life in some way. And I think that's why it resonates well with followers or friends or whatever you wanna call them. The people in the social media who come across my content is I feel like people can see maybe that it's genuine and just authentic, and it's just it's just who I am.

I don't I don't wear a mask. I don't try to be anything that I'm not. I'll be the first one to tell you about all my mess ups, all my screw ups. I don't care.

I don't I don't I don't care what you think of me. That's just kinda how it is. I I sure. I just wanna help people.

So I know what my intention is. So why would I ever be sidetracked by the opinion of somebody else if I know what I truly wanna do? And and and you're judging me off something that you saw on for ten seconds.

Tom Rowland: Right.

Michael Holland: So I I it's like 99% positive, you know, and 1% people telling me I'm on steroids or telling me to shut up or telling me that I stole the movements from from Tai Chi or whatever whatever they wanna say.

Tom Rowland: Right. That's not that important, honestly. In a regular day of of journaling, you've been doing this for a long time. Like, I think that a lot of people hear journaling is a is a important tool that they could incorporate.

But, you know, they'll start and they'll try to write a book on day one. And then it's like, no. I I can't keep up with that. So what what kind of, advice could you give somebody that either either is struggling with keeping up with the consistency or or wants to get started in the journaling?

Like, what kind of what kind of thoughts do you put down in your journal?

Michael Holland: So, again, this has to be what works for you, but look at it as journaling is like movement for your mind. It's just you have the movements for your body and you have the movements for your mind. It's just the way for you to put down on paper and bring into reality a thought that you have. It doesn't have to be anything Emerson like or Thoreau like.

It like, it's not going to be that. Maybe it is. Maybe you're a very small fraction of the world who who has that talent. But for me, it's just a way to bring things into reality.

And I've read some some information on how much more powerful the spoken word is compared to, like, a thought in your mind and then how much it compounds as soon as you speak it and write it.

Tom Rowland: Right.

Michael Holland: So I'm just playing an odds game. Right? If if I wanna be if I wanna accomplish helping a million people, it's probably going to help me if I say that out loud and I write that down just because I'm bringing it into reality a little bit more than just a thought. I mean, we have so many thoughts every day, and and doesn't matter if you're the most positive person in the world, majority of them are negative.

So they say, statistically, I have no idea how they calculate all that, but, you know, I'm not in that field. I'm just repeating what I've read from the stuff.

Tom Rowland: But from your own experience, they're even a positive guy like yourself or or I feel like I'm a positive guy, there's a lot of negativity that goes on. It's just whether I think the difference between some people and other people is do you choose to dwell on that negativity? Do you choose to let that take root and and become an ongoing thought, or is it it's gone. It's gone.

It's gone. Oh, here's a positive one. I'm gonna pay attention to that. I'm gonna nourish that.

I'm a water it. I'm gonna see it grow. Negative. Gone.

Gone. Gone. And, I think that that is I mean, that's what happened to me when I understood what the difference between positive thoughts and negative thoughts were. When I see a negative one come through, gone.

And I've gotten and I believe that you get better and better and better at that as if you were I don't know. You go to Vegas and you see somebody shuffling cards, and they're so quick with those cards. And if there's a bad one, that goes over here. And if there's a good one, it goes over here.

And it's just like it's but the dexterity in their hands, if you were to try to do that, it it doesn't matter if you know exactly what you're supposed to do. If somebody's been dealing cards for thirty years, you're not gonna have the dexterity in your fingers. And it's the same thing in your mind. Like, when you start to be become better at getting rid of the negative thoughts and and and nourishing and and and helping the positive thoughts to grow, it's that quick, like, so fast.

I mean, I feel like it is it I feel like I've gotten so much better at it, and I think other people have too. But I've never thought about that analogy of dealing cards until just the second, but that's what I thought about is because they've got so many thoughts coming in just like cards. Like Mhmm. And and you watch one of those guys, and they're so fast.

But that's what it that's what it feels like to me. Man.

43:12 · The Compound Effect of Tiny Daily Habits

Michael Holland: Yeah. It's a skill like anything else. You know?

Tom Rowland: You have to you

Michael Holland: have to work on it. 1% better every day for what? A year is 3,700 times better at the end of the year. So it's it's little compound interest.

It doesn't matter. That's why it's that's why it's so heavily talked about in terms of finances

Tom Rowland: and

Michael Holland: how it's like the eighth or ninth wonder of the world, whatever Warren Buffett would say. But fitness is the same way. It's you you get a little bit better every day. You do something that is good for your health and wellness, fifteen minutes a day every day.

Don't you think that's a lot better than hitting the gym for four hours one day a week? Of course.

Tom Rowland: Not even close. Yeah.

Michael Holland: It's it's little tiny habits that are going to compound, and they work so much more than just on the physical level of your body. It's for your mind. It gets your mind in a positive mindset. You feel that sense of accomplishment.

Now you're a little bit more proud of yourself because you woke up at the time you told yourself you were gonna wake up. Now you pushed yourself. So you endured that suffering. So you're a little bit stronger that day.

It just compounds. And and that's that's all it is. That's why I think the movements are so a great starting place for people. Because it's like, hey.

It's just five minutes a day, ten minutes a day, twenty, whatever you have. So you don't you don't have to do what I do. Do what you do. That's what I say about the movements.

The movements, you don't have to do them like I do. I and in fact, I inspire you to kind of figure out how what's works best for you. It's about your mind body connection. Not not mine, not Tom Rowland's, yours.

Tom Rowland: Right. Do you have you looked back through your journals and seen a a place where you feel like it was the first time that you that you, said you wanted to help a million people?

Michael Holland: No. I haven't.

Tom Rowland: Do you think you wrote that down? I mean, probably them. Yeah. Because, I mean, this is I don't know what else you've accomplished in your life, but this is pretty awesome.

I mean, it really is. Like, what you've done, and it's not just followers. Like, when I look at the follower number, I I I think nobody's gonna follow without trying this at least at least once. And nobody's and and I'm sure you're gonna try it at least once and then and then maybe come back and then and then say, I want more, and I wanna learn a little bit more about this, and I wanna follow more.

What you've been able to accomplish is is really is really big. And I don't know what else you've accomplished in your life, probably other big things. But I would imagine that this is a place where you could look through your journal and you could be like, I have manifested this. I have said that I wanted to do this, and I have watched it grow into what it is today.

And that's I I feel like it's only gonna be a fraction of what it what it is in a in a couple years or even at the end of this year. Right?

Michael Holland: Yes. So the million the million number is very it's it's it's nice to see it. Right? But it's arbitrary because how can I really even gauge that?

The the the amount of people that I'm going to help has absolutely nothing to do with my follower account. Some people now that that number is kinda like, oh, I'm almost at a million followers, so I just want that to be clear. It has nothing to do. I don't care how many followers I have.

Obviously, the more people that follow me, the more people I can influence and can see the message and it can improve their life. But the real benefit and and that I wanna have on people's lives is for them to take control of their health and live life on their own terms. I I won't ever be able to gauge that. Right?

There's not like a account account that I have somewhere where I'm like, oh, this person messaged me. Let me let me notch that off. We're at 8,420. You know?

There's no way that I'll do that. But once I feel as if there's a million people that took control of their health and living life on their own terms, then it goes to 10,000,000. Then it goes to a 100,000,000, then it could go to a billion for all I care. It's my belief is, and, Tom, I couldn't be more honest about this, and I'm sure you agree with me, but I believe that the world is a better place with more healthy people.

Tom Rowland: There's no question.

Michael Holland: The more amount of people that are healthy, the better this world will be.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. But what you're doing also has such ripple effects. It you'll never know. But those million people have told a million other people or or or a million other people have watched them do it.

And when I knew when I knew something was going on really with your movement, and and I keep calling it a movement because it's it's a that's what it is, man. There's a lot of people doing this. I was at I was at the Fort Lauderdale Boat Show. Mhmm.

And I went out to the beaches right across the street. And I go out there and, you know, I don't wanna, like, kill myself in the morning because I'm gonna be on my feet all day. Like, you know, I'm a go out there. I'm a do this movement.

I'm a do my stretching than I normally do, and I'm gonna be out on the beach, barefoot, in the sand, and I'm I'm doing I'm doing your stuff. And I looked down the beach, and there's another dude doing your stuff. And I was like, wow. That's wild.

Like, first of all, I didn't know you lived in Miami. And I thought you lived, north for some reason. I don't know. Virginia or, like, what is that Ventura City that's on your where is that?

Michael Holland: It's right next to Atlantic City. I'm from Jersey.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. So I thought you were, like, from that area. I didn't realize it, and I thought maybe I don't know. I thought there was some connection, and the beach looks like Fort Lauderdale or Miami a lot of times when you're out there.

But, you've obviously had a bigger impact than I knew because here are actually people at the sunrise doing the same thing. Thought it was cool. Maybe even sent you a message, but I don't know. I thought it I just thought it was really cool.

And I was thinking I was gonna say hi to the guy, but we're you know, we're doing this number, so it looks like we're saying hi to each other. But it was just it was just super cool. And and then, you know, it's not the it's not the last time that I've seen that, but I just thought that was thought that was really cool. You could go to a random spot during sunrise, and you see somebody else doing the same thing.

Pretty cool. Awesome.

Michael Holland: Yeah. It it really is. And I get it all the time. People send me clips of people, and and maybe they'll talk.

I inspire anybody. Every time you see somebody else doing it, you should definitely talk because you're gonna be somewhat on the same frequency. You're gonna be following the same system, and and that's what I really wanna do with the app. I want it to be a huge community platform where, again, this movement is so much bigger than me.

Like, like, I care less about it. So that's not called the Mike Holland movement, you know, or the mind body energy movement because that's what it is. You're connecting your mind and body, and then when you're able to do that, you're optimizing your energy. And I believe energy is everything in this world.

So the person with the most amount of energy, if you can go through life with the most amount of energy, you can live the most abundant life possible because energy is everything. And and when you're fine tuning your frequency, you can have anything you want in this world.

50:08 · Breathwork, Wim Hof, and the Burpee Breakthrough

Tom Rowland: It's interesting. I love that. So let's talk about the the connection between the the mind, body, and the energy. And part of that, you're you're saying that the breath is a bridge between between the mind and the body, and I believe I believe that fully.

And the more I've gotten into that, starting with Wim Hof, and then I did the the Laird Hamilton had, like, a a breath kind of certification course you could go through. I did that too. I learned a couple of other little things, and his his deal was, a little bit more athletic focused than, than Wim Hof's deal. But from from both of them, I have, gotten great results.

And it I mean, I could tell you the Wim Hof results. I don't know if you I don't know. You you would probably appreciate this, but not everybody listening might care, but they'll just have to suffer through it. But I do this thing a 100 burpees, and you'll do it for time.

Right? So it's a it's it's a thing that you a burpee is a a simple movement. You throw yourself on the ground. You get up.

You jump, and that's a burpee. So you're doing it the same way every time. It doesn't matter where you do it. All you need is a clock, and you're doing the 100 burpees.

Well, I had a baseline that I just couldn't seem to get under of about five and a half minutes on the 100 burpees. And then I started doing this Wim Hof breathing every day. Three rounds of Wim Hof breathing every single day for about, I don't know, six months. And all of a sudden, on a five and a half minute workout, I dropped almost a minute.

Nothing changed in my training other than the breathing. And I believe that I mean, I really believe I got better at breathing. You're you're you're you're literally conditioning the muscles that open and close the lungs. Your your diaphragm is getting stronger.

Everything's getting stronger. You probably become better at absorbing oxygen. I don't know. But it's almost like if you're running a mile and then you drop a a minute in your mile time, like, wow.

How do you do that? With no explanation. And then all of a sudden just it just felt like a a real unlock. And that's when that's one of the times when, like, I was getting benefits of the breathing for my mental clarity and and meditation and all of these other things that I've felt were very beneficial to me, physically and mentally.

But that was the first time that I was like, oh, like, this is a performance enhancing exercise That if you couple it with the other exercises that you're doing, you can unlock this super performance that I've never done before. I mean, I've done that 100 burpees 50 times before all of a sudden. It's basically the same time. Maybe a couple of seconds here or there, and then you drop a minute.

I had to do it again because I thought, well, I I honest honestly, I have misread the clock. Right? And then you stay at that same same time. But I was just kind of I I should I don't know if I should've gone down that road.

But, as far as breathing and what you've been able to, to experience yourself through these movements and the breathing practices that you have, and you probably have other breathing practices outside of these. But how how has that been important to you physically and mentally? And

Michael Holland: Yeah. So you said a lot.

Tom Rowland: I do that sometimes.

Michael Holland: And I resonated with every single thing you said, but I wanted to let you speak. I mean, just just the two people that you mentioned are, like, two of my biggest idols, role models, and what they've done. I'll be out training with Laird in the next month or so, him and Gabby, but I I'm not gonna ever say I'm in their category or whatever, but I have similar intentions, especially comparing to Wim Hof because of what he's done with that movement. But in terms of breathing, you're exactly right.

And you said you didn't do anything different. You just did the Wim Hof breathing, which is like everything makes that different because learning how to breathe in a in an effective efficient way will do so much benefit for you in terms of working out, especially if you're currently breathing in a very inefficient way. Mhmm. So if you just look at it in terms of how our anatomy works, if you can properly oxygenate and get blood flowing to your muscles, then you're gonna operate at an optimal level.

As soon as that gets disconnected, my belief, you start going into sympathetic nervous system gets activated. It's a fight or flight. Now it's becomes like a survival thing. As soon as the body and the breath are disconnected, eventually, you're going to fatigue.

Eventually, your mind and body are gonna disconnect where you're gonna allow your body to determine, hey. It's over. And then your mind's gonna say, okay. We're done.

Now when you have control of that and your mind and body are completely connected and you have control of a rhythmic breathing pattern, which is exactly what I teach in the movement practice. That's why the second phase is crucial. It's where 80% of the benefits really are. And then the third phase is transferring that into your actual, like, what you wanna do in life.

But it keeps you in that sympathetic it keeps you in that parasympathetic mindset of, hey, it's all good because you're in control. So the real benefits of the movement practice when you go into that second phase and you create that rhythmic breathing pattern where you're in control of that exaggerated exhale at the end of each movement, it allows your mind to be at ease because you're completely connected. I've had people send me their WHOOP data and all these different data things all the time, and they'll they'll be say let's say it's a 60 year old man. He's been doing the movements for for two, three months, And he's just in amazement because he's sending me the whoop data and he's he's at, like, eighty, eighty plus percent heart rate.

You know, it could be a 160, a 165 for him. And he's telling me he feels fantastic. He's like, I didn't even feel fatigued, anything. And it's same thing happens for me.

I can get my heart rate up so high, but because I have that rhythmic breathing pat practice implemented into it and my mind and body are are at harmony, I'm able to optimize that energy in the most efficient effective way. So what you're saying with Wim Hof's breathing, I mean, his his tactic is Tummo breathing or or essentially a form of, like, hyperventilation where you're getting properly oxygenating your whole entire body so it can perform in in, like, a superhuman type of way. Mhmm. And it's just superhuman because science disagreed with it to a certain degree, but he obviously proved them wrong through that.

I believe the rhythmic breathing pattern that you end up developing in the movement, the mind body energy stuff is is very, very, very similar because you're getting your blood circulation going and you're getting your body properly oxygenated. And as long as your mind and body are connected, you're in control of your breathing pattern. So there's no reason that you wanna get disconnected or you would get out of rhythm. You wanna stay in that, and that's how you can operate in the optimal level and you can get in that flow state and and you're good to go.

Mhmm.

Tom Rowland: Have you experimented with nose breathing in in your movements?

Michael Holland: Yeah. So for the first, I'd say, couple months, I I've trained with a breath work guy for for for since I was, like, 14. His name's Eddie Harold. He he's awesome.

He's just the way that he puts things is a little bit he's just so knowledgeable about that kind of stuff, but he's the one who first taught me. He had me running with a towel in my mouth. So I would only nasal breathe for the first like two summers of training with him. So I'm a nasal breather only.

I learned Pranayama from him back twenty some years ago. Now I originally started with the mind body energy movement because I'm a nasal breather only, all nasal breathing. So it was in through your nose, out through your nose. However, I have that intensity element added to it as a progression for my personal practice, and it no longer became possible in a way.

I shouldn't say impossible, but but it was extremely difficult to do because the inhale and the exhale are almost happening simultaneously when you increase to, say, a 120 or a 140 arm swings a minute. So the amount of in and out, it just it just wouldn't work through the same path path pathway. So what I what I kinda rerouted, and I talked with Eddie about this, and and and later I talked to Stig Severson, who's who holds his breath for twenty two minutes. He holds a bunch of world records as the way of what they kinda thought about it.

And what it what it kinda creates is a more rhythmic breathing pattern. So it's in through the nose, out through the mouth, but it almost happens simultaneously. Very similar to if you understand how the Aborigines play the didgeridoo. So they can make that noise for up to ten minutes plus or so because they teach themselves to inhale and exhale at the same exact time.

And, again, this is getting a little too complicated or whatever, I guess, but that's why I don't go into it much. I just say, hey. Work focus only on your exaggerated exhale. You'll be getting out offloading c o two, and you'll be able to time and just create the rhythm.

I really try to stay away from all that that information just because it's it goes over people's head. All they wanna do is feel good and be efficient.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. But I think for for more advanced athletes, I think that it's interesting to know that there's more to your to your practice than just what you're putting out there for the masses. Right? Like, I mean, I I find that really an interesting if if I can make improvements in my breath work, I'm all I mean, at this point in my athletic career, like, the movement part, I'm I'm I'm interested.

I'm gonna try to learn. But where I really feel like I can make the biggest progress in my own journey is in the breath work. And and, you know, the stuff that Brian McKenzie and Laird Hamilton did with XPT was pretty interesting. The different books I've read, the what what, Gracie.

Is it, Henzo Gracie? He's got that that book.

Michael Holland: Grease?

Tom Rowland: Yes. It's really good. I I've I've It's six very interested in that.

Michael Holland: Yeah.

Tom Rowland: It's which which one?

Michael Holland: Hickson Grayson.

Tom Rowland: Hickson Grayson. Yeah. Yes. That's, that's that's awesome.

I'm I'm interested in that and the, in the breathing, but it it would go over the head of a

Michael Holland: lot a lot. So just just to conclude that that breathing portion of it and and and the third phase of the whole system, I guess you could say, is that's what you're trying to do with the movement practice. You're trying to, in the first phase, relax your body, identify where you held hold tension, get familiar with the movements. The second phase is truly where you're gonna spend the most amount of time because you're gonna master that rhythmic breathing that you're going to create that works best for you.

And the third phase, and I and I probably don't talk about it enough because it essentially is just the transferability of this new skill set that you have developed for yourself, and you transfer that into your everyday life. Like, why why do I care how good you are or efficient you are at body waves, arm swings, trunk twist? Nobody gives a shit about that. This is about making your life better in whatever whatever desires and passions you have.

So it's, it's all about taking that new skill set that you have developed for yourself, transferring that into your everyday life, into if you're a professional boxer, into if you're just a professional boater or you just wanna play with your kids, now you have that new skill set that makes you more capable of a human being to just, hey, I could always go back to that rhythmic breathing pattern. I'm good. Doesn't matter. Stressful situation.

I get in the altercation in the street. Go to your breath. Your breath is everything. You know?

Life is just a collection of breaths. That's that's all it is. So you better understand exactly how to utilize it so you can be as capable as possible.

Tom Rowland: I've heard it's the first thing you do and the last thing you do.

Michael Holland: It absolutely is.

Tom Rowland: And and that is actually true. So as far as, like, some of your other training that you do and you talk about on your on your, platform, is your morning routine. One of the things is is, the cold. How do you feel that you are are putting that into your daily routine?

Is what what benefits are you getting out of that?

1:03:04 · Cold Therapy and the Morning Face Plunge

Michael Holland: So I use cold therapy strictly for my mind. That's it. I don't use it as a recovery tool. I'm sure it has benefits to that.

You know, new studies, it seems like, come out every month that tell you this is good, this is bad, do a pre workout post work, all those things. But, again, for me, everything is is a mindset thing. So I do a little bit of suffering first thing in the morning, and and that's just what I do. I'm I'm blessed to have a cold plunge at my house.

So I wake up first thing in the morning, journal, fuel up, do all those different things, and then I get in the cold plunge, do my three minutes or so of humming. I actually incorporate humming. I've been reading a lot about, like, the vagus nerve and how you activate, it with humming, and I've just been incorporating that and doing a little self exploration about the benefits of humming while in the cold. But that's, more recent.

I've only been doing it a couple months, but I incorporate that type of therapy or or whatever routine into my practice solely for for my mindset purposes.

Tom Rowland: I feel the same way. I never knew if it was, well, I don't believe that cold is probably good immediately after a hard workout. Now if you're in the CrossFit games or something and you're going to have to do another hard workout in thirty minutes or you're playing tennis or something, yes. Like, it will get you ready for the next thing.

But as far as, like, progression throughout the year, if you're lifting weights heavy and then you're getting in the cold plunge, maybe not the best. Like, space it out is what else is what I've done, but I'm I'm like you. I would rather do it first thing in the morning, and I don't know. Maybe the fact that I don't wanna do it in the afternoon is exactly when I should do it.

Michael Holland: So I think the things and we're talking about cold therapy as in full body submergent, but there's other elements of cold therapy that I feel like can be utilized that I don't know if you practice or not, but but studies have been published on, like, palmer cooling

Tom Rowland: Mhmm.

Michael Holland: Yes. And that's been talked about a lot. And that seems like a much more maybe effective way to utilize it for different reasons and intentions. Again, it all depends on your intention.

Right? If we're doing it for mindset, full body submerging is likely going to be a big mindset application.

Tom Rowland: Now if

Michael Holland: you're doing it to recover in between a tennis match, think one of those tennis guys is utilizing the cold cool mitts right now where he puts his hands in cold mittens, that obviously it's a technology it's a technology thing where there's cold water running in them. And it and it makes sense. Right? Because your blood circulation is going.

So if it's gonna run through the distal part of your your anatomy and then recirculate through through your body in some way. So you're not actually submerging, but you're still getting some of the benefits. I utilize a face plunge every morning as well. So I'll plunge my face in the cold water, and I get a whole host of different benefits, I feel like, than I do from the actual cold plunge.

Yeah. If you think about cold plunge submerging like we're doing, what's out? Everything's in except your face.

Tom Rowland: Right.

Michael Holland: So when you jump out of the cold plunge and now you just submerge your face and your body's getting activated in in warm temperatures or whatever, it it's it's a whole different

Tom Rowland: What do you think what do you think the benefits are of the face deal? Because I I have, like, my cold plunge, and it's just a Yeti three fifty with a bunch of ice and water in it. So it's all it's always ready to go. I change it out every few days.

But I I go up there in the morning, and I just, you know, put my face in there or put rub ice all over my face. But I do that almost like a wake up kinda thing. But I didn't know you know, like you, I just kinda if if I feel like it's good, I keep doing it. I don't need to know all the benefits, but I'm just wondering what you think the benefits are for you because you've you kept doing that over time.

Michael Holland: Yeah. I mean, look at my skin. I'm 59 years old. You know?

I look like

Tom Rowland: 59?

Michael Holland: No. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. I'll just How old

Tom Rowland: are you?

Michael Holland: 39. 39.

Tom Rowland: I'm 57. Look how good I look.

Michael Holland: Yeah. Exactly. Look even better if you're doing the face plunge. I I look at it as, you know, I I don't I don't really have any of the benefits documented.

It's just like a mental clarity for me. I'm a I'm a big surfer, so it honestly brings back some elements of, like, nostalgia because I grew up surfing in Jersey in the cold water, and you'd get, like, these head rushes, these brain freezes growing up. But but I I make it I make it fun now. You know?

It's almost like like how I reward myself. I believe in earning everything. So in a certain degree, I, like, slice some cucumbers, put some lemon in there, add some baking soda, been doing some research about, like, the exfoliation. I don't take the best care care of my skin.

I'm in the sun all the time. I haven't worn lotion or suntan lotion in many, many years. So there's an element I feel like, you know, may maybe it benefits me to a certain degree, but I have no education on or ex, you know, ex expertise on any of that.

Tom Rowland: So Yeah. But that sometimes that's the best that's those are the people that I that I look to the most often for, like, it it that guy it that guy's doing something that's working.

Michael Holland: Mhmm.

Tom Rowland: I don't need to know, like, all the science behind it. In fact, if I knew the science behind it, I may may really not wanna do it at all or I don't know. But I feel like I feel like a lot of times people's habits, what they do and and you say this, like, what is it that you that you said here that you're you're a reflection of your habits? Or where where did where did I have that?

Said something about, you know, bay about what you're consuming and everything like that. Your body is a is a reflection of your of your habits or of your

Michael Holland: Good or good or bad. You know? Right. You're you're a direct reflection of your habits.

I mean, that should show clearly. Just look at people who are super fit and look at people who are super fat and out of shape. Like, obviously, they have different habits.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. Well, when it comes to that, like, your main message, has been you just want a million people to take control of their health and and wellness.

Michael Holland: Yes. So they could live life on their terms.

Tom Rowland: Right. So they can live life on their own terms. So for somebody that's never heard of you before, what exactly does that look like for just somebody off the street?

1:09:52 · Where to Start, and Ranking the Health Trends

Michael Holland: Well, so they have to just identify exactly where they currently are. I believe that's a brutally honest, hard thing for people to do. That's where you have to understand that's where you have to understand to get started. You have to identify who you are as a person and just ask yourself if you're proud of the current person who you are.

And if you're currently proud and you and everything's perfect and you have control of your health and you feel like you're living life on your own terms, then then great. Carry on. Go consume other information on on on social media. You know?

You don't need me. But if you answer that question honestly and you say, man, I'm not proud of who I am. I'm I don't have control of my health. You know, I I I used to look in much better shape, and now I've just let it all go because my wife divorced me and my kids don't like me or whatever whatever whatever story you begin to tell yourself.

Well, then it's it's it's time to make a change. And the second step to that equation is you have to identify exactly who you want to be. Be very, very concise and clear cut and write down the person you wanna be. What would make you proud?

The person you see in the mirror. And then you write that all down, and then you develop a game plan how to get there. But if you don't know where you're at and you don't know where you wanna go, how could you possibly make those improvements? So, again, I try to simplify everything.

You don't have to complicate it. You just have to understand who you currently are and who you desire and who you wanna be. And then you develop that game plan because, you know, chances are, you know exactly what you need to do in order to become that person. You just might be lying to yourself and not addressing it and making it clear in an understandable way.

And that's what I believe. Now sure, you could try doing following me, doing all that kind of stuff. Like, if that makes you makes life better for you, perfect. If it doesn't, it goes back to Bruce Lee.

If it's useful, use it. If it's not, discard it and move on. But at the end of the day, it comes down to who you are and who you wanna be and developing a game plan to get from there to who you wanna be.

Tom Rowland: Nice. Yeah. Well, you're definitely you're definitely helping a lot of people like that. So good for you.

And thank you for for what you're doing. I wanna do some, a little fun thing here, which may be some good social content. But I want you to rank these things. These these, health call them trends, call them real things.

I don't know. Rank them from one to 10. One could be the stupidest thing you ever heard of. Total waste of time.

10, absolute nonnegotiable. The best use of your time that you could possibly have.

Michael Holland: This is for me, personally?

Tom Rowland: Yeah. Yeah. But just for you. What you think about it?

Okay. I'm good. K? So movement.

Michael Holland: 10.

Tom Rowland: Weightlifting.

Michael Holland: Seven.

Tom Rowland: Running. Five. Swimming. Five.

Machines like a row or ski, bike, treadmill? Five. Rucking?

Michael Holland: Seven.

Tom Rowland: Stretching?

Michael Holland: Seven.

Tom Rowland: Mobility work?

Michael Holland: Eight and a half.

Tom Rowland: K. We're moving on to recovery and therapy. Cold plunge?

Michael Holland: Six.

Tom Rowland: Sauna? Six. Red light therapy?

Michael Holland: Don't know. Five.

Tom Rowland: Grounding, earthing.

Michael Holland: Eight.

Tom Rowland: Sleep. 10. Blue light glasses.

Michael Holland: Zero. I don't know.

Tom Rowland: I thought you were gonna say that. Daily protocols. Sun exposure?

Michael Holland: Nine. Breath work?

Tom Rowland: Nine. Diet and nutrition.

Michael Holland: Nine and a half.

Tom Rowland: Hydration and electrolytes.

Michael Holland: Eight.

Tom Rowland: Vitamins and supplements. Five. Peptides.

Michael Holland: Don't know. Five.

Tom Rowland: K. Mental and social. Consistency.

Michael Holland: 10.

Tom Rowland: Discipline.

Michael Holland: 10.

Tom Rowland: Community and connection.

Michael Holland: Eight.

Tom Rowland: Meditation.

Michael Holland: Six.

Tom Rowland: Journaling.

Michael Holland: Nine.

Tom Rowland: Reading.

Michael Holland: Six.

Tom Rowland: Trending additions. Intermittent fasting.

Michael Holland: Eight and a half.

Tom Rowland: Extended fasting.

Michael Holland: Seven.

Tom Rowland: Zone two cardio.

Michael Holland: Six.

Tom Rowland: Nose breathing?

Michael Holland: Nine.

Tom Rowland: Time in nature? Eight. Okay. I think I think some people might be interested in in find some of your answers interesting.

I I I did. I but some of them I I kinda knew. Blue light glasses? I don't know.

My daughter thinks they're important. So I

Michael Holland: I don't even know what that's

Tom Rowland: They're supposed to block out, like, the the the light coming from the screens and stuff like that. I don't know. Anyway, dude, you're, you are making such a difference in the world. I don't know if you know that or not.

I I mean, I think you do, but I don't know if you fully will ever understand the ripples that are that are going out all over the world. So good for you. It's really it's really cool, and, I'm really happy to have you on here and get to know you a little bit better. I didn't realize you were in Miami.

I'm I'm down there a lot, so we'll we'll get together on the beach one of these mornings.

Michael Holland: Yeah. That'd be awesome, brother.

1:15:56 · The App and Where to Find Mike

Tom Rowland: Yeah. Well, good luck to you. And, tell people, the app, how can they get the app, how can they find more of you?

Michael Holland: Yeah. So it's gonna be called the mind body energy movement. It'll be released sometime this month, January 2026. It will include all sorts of cool stuffs, live flows, all sorts of opportunities, that will be attached to it.

It'll just be an easier way for me to communicate with everybody and keep everybody on the same page and and then essentially turn this into what what I'm gonna be doing with my life. And but the goal is pretty clear. Like we've said many of times, just to help people take control of their health and live life on their own terms.

Tom Rowland: Very nice. Very nice. Well, congrats, man. You're doing it.

Alright. That's Mike Holland. Follow him on social. Check out his flows, and we'll see you on the beach one of these mornings.

Alright.

Michael Holland: See you. See you.