Michael Medrano - The Stilthouses of Texas

Michael Medrano: There were sort of like three three groups in the airport in Hawaii that we're all kind of looking at each other. I wonder if this guy and these are going to go to the same place. And it was a little bit like a husband wife team, a real big guy. And and I remember sort of talking it up with him, and he he he was checking out his fly box, and all he had really brought were trigger fish flies. You remember this?

Tom Rowland: No. Yeah. Yes. I do.

Michael Medrano: And, and and and I hadn't really put that on my radar as the quarry that we would be going after, but he started basically telling me that that's all he would go after were triggerfish, and that ended up becoming so fun to go after I know. When we were there. I'm Mike Medrano, and this is the Tom Roland Podcast.

Tom Rowland: So today, what we've got, few years ago, I took my boys to Christmas Island, and it was one of the best trips we've ever had. And it was wonderful and made even better because we ran into another family there on the way, I think, in the Hawaii Airport. We met up with another family, and they it was very similar. Dad, two boys, kinda celebrating, I don't know, maybe a high school graduation or something. I was kinda seeing on, like, those guys look like they're going to the same place we're going to. And so we ended up talking, sitting down, became fast friends. The boys got together. I got to be friends with this this person, and we ended up fishing all week together, and it was fantastic. That gentleman is Michael Medrano, and he's joining us today because he has something that is really awesome. He's written this, book called Stilt Houses of Texas. I think you were working on this when we were probably back in Christmas Island days, weren't you?

Michael Medrano: I think I had the idea for it.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. Well, it looks like

Michael Medrano: It was early innings.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. It looks like it has taken a lot of time for sure to, to to write this book. It is a book about the stilt houses. Now we have stilt houses in Florida, and they are kind of off the homestead area, kind of in Biscayne Bay a little bit. But you have also these stilt houses in Texas. So what was it that made you want to do a book about the stilt houses?

Michael Medrano: Tom, I I I have grown up on the Texas Coast. And, you know, so for the better part of my upbringing, fishing along, the coast of Texas, literally from Galveston all the way to South Texas, you can't help but notice that there's homes literally along the intercoastal. Some of them on Spoil Island, some of them literally like the stilt houses in Florida in the water. And no one really ever talks about how those houses got there or who has them. And so it was always intriguing to me that there was these homes. And sort of as a as a young man, always thought to myself, one of these days, I'd love to fish on, one of those cabins. And so, you know, it it it just sort of took forty years for that to happen. But but that's that's really how it all started.

Tom Rowland: So you just wanted to fish on one. Would you see when you're fishing by these things, would you see people, like, staying there and, like, enjoying that lifestyle? Like, people are living there.

Michael Medrano: I I I not permanently. Usually, just sort of over the weekend.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. Right. Yeah. And so what what's the what's the legality here? Like, how did how did these things start? Could anyone at one point, could anyone just go plop a stilt house somewhere? I'm sure that's not that not the case now. But how did it start?

Michael Medrano: Yeah. No. That's that's actually they they used to call them squatters' shacks.

Tom Rowland: Okay.

Michael Medrano: So they literally, back in the day when they were dredging the Intracoastal Canal through Texas, people literally just set up a cabin or a shack along those oil banks and set up shop. And no one really said you couldn't do that. And that is actually the genesis for what we now know as the cabin program that's sanctioned by the state. So, and that didn't really take place until '64 when they passed some legislation in the Texas House to acquire really those properties because it was on state land. But before, you know, if if you had the wherewithal to go out there and put some pilings in the ground, you could have a shack on the intercoastal.

Tom Rowland: Wow. And then along the along the road there, something probably changed where I mean, that's kinda like filling a wetland. Right? Like, you put putting piles in the ground. I know in Florida, that's a real no no. And, you know, you gotta get a certain permit, you know, and that's that's considered, like, a wetland kind of issue, which is a federal issue. Right? Exactly. So did that change? And all of a sudden, they can't build anymore? Or what what's the history of that?

Michael Medrano: Yeah. So there were there were some legislation that was passed in, I believe it was 1964, essentially acquiring it was sort of a bundled piece of legislation. But one of the tenants to that piece of legislation was acquiring sort of an eminent domain, but I don't think they paid for the property. But essentially, the state going in and claiming that those stilt houses were really built on state property. And so now, therefore, became part of the state property. And they put those cabins under the General Land Office, which is one of the divisions in Texas that's really charged with leasing state property for could be for natural resources or for oyster farming, etcetera. And so now these, call it, four ten, four zero eight cabins at the time became part of the state under the purview of the General Land Office. And then you had to apply for a permit to to do anything, make any improvements or to have a lease. That's how they set it up. And it's still that case today is you technically have a lease with the state, to occupy that, cabin. But it's owned by it's sort of like a hunting lease.

Tom Rowland: Right.

Michael Medrano: You can make all the improvements in the world that you want, but they're gonna convey to the landowner. In this case, the landowner is the state of Texas.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. And so that would, I guess, at that point, there's no more. So there there's kind of a premium on something like this. Like, how would somebody get one at this point? Like, is there a way that you could buy one of these, like, if you can't build them anymore or you can't or, you know, what's I don't know how you would acquire one. It seems Yeah.

Michael Medrano: Well, it's it's it's it's not that complex, but it really is and has been a speakeasy. And that's frankly why I got so interested. And it seemed really difficult at the time. No one really knew how to get one. And it's really sort of an obscure division of the General Land Office. But the General Land Office, maybe once a year, maybe once every two years, will auction off the right to build a cabin at your expense, again owned by the State of Texas, but you're building it at your expense to enter into a lease agreement for I think today they set them up for five years. That's the initial term. And then they can be renewed. But so there's not very many of them. Every couple of years, they'll have a little plot. Maybe it's a spoil area that they deem or maybe one gets knocked away and so they reapportion that into a different area. So they'll auction those off. They're really tough to get. The other way is somehow talk into, coerce, what have you, somebody who's got a permit to transfer it to you.

Tom Rowland: Now is that pretty expensive? Like, I would think these things kinda run-in the family. You know, becomes a tradition. I know it does around the homestead area. I told you before when we were talking before that I had a client that would, you know, kind of ended up with one of these, and it was a blessing and a curse because he had to keep it up, you know, and he didn't wanna let it go because it was in the family. But I would imagine that that's kind of the thing here. Like, it's a it's kind of a family tradition probably to go out to these things.

Michael Medrano: Yeah. I I think that that's probably true. I I it'd be interesting to know what what percentage is really like that, but that's the sense that I get. It's so difficult to get one that once you get one, you don't want to let it go even though there's a lot of maintenance involved as you could imagine. And and none of these are accessible by land. So everything that you do to that cabin, you have to bring by boat.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. So what happens in hurricanes?

Michael Medrano: With with respect to what?

Tom Rowland: Well, I mean, do they make it? I mean, it some of these look kinda janky, and you brought everything out here by boat. Let's see. I can actually show what your book looks like here. I'll put this down here. I mean, you can actually bring this stuff out here by boat. So and it's shallow water, so you're probably probably very, you can't bring a huge boat there. So you're bringing this out, like, couple two by fours at a time on occasion, I would imagine. So then you have a hurricane or something. I mean, I'm looking on the inside of these, and they're kinda like a tree house, which is kind of the lure of them. You know, it's like like Huck Finn. Yeah. You go out there and you you stay in one of these. But do they do pretty well in the hurricanes?

Michael Medrano: I I would say, generally, they don't do very well in a hurricane. You know, it and knock on wood, mine is mine's all the way down towards South Padre Island. And so if you know the Texas Coast, South Padre Island, if you go any further south, you're in Mexico. And these cabins start in Galveston Bay, and they run all the way down to South Padre Island with the vast majority, I'd probably say three quarters of these really in South Texas from Corpus Christi on sale. So that's the biggest congregation of these cabins. In that body of water, it is ultra shallow. And so I again, that's the knocking on wood part. Generally speaking, that area, just in terms of storm surge, has less storm surge than the Upper Coast like Galveston because you have a deeper body of water. And that coupled with the wind is what knocks these things down. They get flooded, and then they just they don't they don't hold up with all that water inside the cabins.

Tom Rowland: Right.

Michael Medrano: But down in Far South Texas, they seem to do better because the storms don't have as much tidal surge.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. Man, what a cool what a cool place. So how much time do you spend out at your at your at your cabin?

Michael Medrano: Well, I think about it all the time. But but, fortunately, I think maybe this weekend, I'll have an opportunity to go down there and check it out.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. Well, what's the weather like now for you?

Michael Medrano: In in Texas, it's it's not bad. I think it's a little breezy down south for fishing. And, I think they're they're they're forecasting a little bit of rain. So I I don't know. Maybe it may be kinda dicey, but, but, you know, we'll manufacture a good time if we have to.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. So, like, a weekend out at one at at your place kinda looks like you're just gonna fish, like, all day and then just kinda come back, cook cook something, and, and go to bed and then get up and fish again. You know, you're like, you you can fish these areas. Are they in such a remote area? Like, I've I've fished your where you're talking about where your cabin is before, like, almost down in South Padre or South Padre almost in Mexico. And you're getting in such a remote area that you just couldn't spend two days in that area? Is that kind of the the the allure of some of these places?

Michael Medrano: No. I I think that's true. I I mean, the only thing that I would add to the agenda is, I'm fortunate enough to have these, but I think most of the cabins are outfitted with lights. Yeah. And so the fishing really doesn't stop when you come back in the evening. Oh, yeah. You yeah. You crank the generators up, turn the lights on, and then it is like, you know, bait mecca, which, you know, translates into fishing mecca. And so it's usually really fun. I mean, I I I've often had people out there, and we we giggle at at how much bait fish and fish come up.

Tom Rowland: So what And

Michael Medrano: I've had dolphins.

Tom Rowland: Dolphins? What what about, the trout and stuff like that? Like, do they come into the lights?

Michael Medrano: Absolutely. And

Tom Rowland: the redfish too? Jack crevails, probably?

Michael Medrano: I I haven't I've never caught a jack. I presume that they would, but I've literally had, dolphins come up and just I I mean, you just sit back and just watch the the feeding frenzy going on.

Tom Rowland: And that's that's super cool. You know, Ernest Hemingway had a, had a stilt house off of Key West, and the stilt portion of the house is still there. It's right off Cottrell Key. And you we would pass it every time. And I always thought the same thing. You know, how cool would it have been to go out to one of these stilt houses with, like, Ernest Hemingway? Who knows what went on at that at that stilt house? But it wasn't like he built his so far out. It was kind of, like, just a little bit off of Key West and, you know, across Northwest Channel, and there's like, you can still see where it was. But it wasn't like he built it way out. But I did understand that at some point, there were stilt houses in the Marquesas. And that's 25 miles off of Key West, and that seems to make a little more sense to me. Like, you're gonna really get away. Like, where Ernest Hemingway built his, it was, like, five miles from Key West. So I don't know, like, why why he would wanna do that. But, I mean, it's there it was already quiet. Like, Key West was a very small place at that time, and so then he wants to get even further away. I don't know. It's kinda funny when you think back on on those days and stuff like that. It's like there's a whole different opinion of crowds and a different opinion of you know, he's probably thinking, Key West. There's too many people here. You know, it's probably

Michael Medrano: I just wanna get away.

Tom Rowland: A hundredth of the people that that were there before. But the still houses have a cool history. Like, you know, you look all over the place, I guess. There's and they have them in Louisiana. You know, I've I've come across some kinda camps, you know. Yeah. But I don't know what that looks like. These look a little more established. Like, the looking through your book here, these look a little

Michael Medrano: There's definitely there's definitely some cabins that you that we've that Tim photographed. We were together the whole time. But that really look more like a beach house or a bay house than they do sort of like a fishing shack. I would say mine is more on the fishing shack side of the equation. But but there's some of them literally the the cabin next door to mine is a two story structure that I think can house like 16 people. I mean, it's it's a monster.

Tom Rowland: That sounds like one of those cool, duck hunting duck hunting, blinds that they have in some places where, you know, they're, like, three or four stories, and they're cooking and, you know, shooting ducks. And usually in Louisiana, it's certainly a place that has more ducks than than where I duck hunt because we try to really be be hide and stuff. But some people are able to do it with those three story places, which again is like it becomes like a tradition so that you can Yeah. You can see that in people's families and and then it stays there. Well, what was the how did you pick Tim Romano as your photo photographer?

Michael Medrano: You know, the the, the thought behind the book originally was to to team up with fly fishing guides in the and we just sort of naturally have our coast broken up into thirds, the upper, the middle and the lower coast. And so the original thought was to team up with fly fishing guides in the upper, middle, lower coast. And the one of the first guides that I had reached out to was a guy named Jared Malone.

Tom Rowland: Mhmm.

Michael Medrano: I don't think he I don't think he really guides much anymore. But he was a very well regarded guide in the Galveston Bay Complex. And, I had reached out to him, and he was friends with Tim Tim Romano. And when I when I was sharing with him this idea about the book and what all, I was envisioning, he said, you got to reach out to Tim. Tim was from Texas and he had moved to Colorado and was obviously very well accomplished in outdoor photography. And so Jared Malone is actually who put me in touch with Tim Romano. And then when I met Tim, it was you know, it's kinda like meeting you. We we hit it off, and, I I knew that that Tim was gonna do this project.

Tom Rowland: Oh, that's cool. And then how much time did it, did it take really for you to to to work out what the book was gonna look like and what you thought? You know, I mean, was it always a coffee table book? Like, is that I mean, that's what I would consider this as as a big, nice book. So it was always gonna be a coffee table book, and you just envision big, you know, landscape photographs like like it turned out? Did it did it did it turn out like you thought? Like, I know that people launch into these projects and then it's kinda like, man, it took so many twists and turns on the way that it's completely different project than what it was intended. But what what about that for you?

Michael Medrano: Yeah. Good question. I I would say, you know, the the biggest twist that this book took was that I probably envisioned it to be about, I don't know, 60 pages. And I think it's I don't know what the last count was. I'm look I'm opening my book right now, but it's like

Tom Rowland: 38, I see. Or maybe Yeah.

Michael Medrano: It's 238 pages. And and, you know, Tim and I this this project took two years. And and we would you know, I hired, Julie Savansky Savansky out of Austin, who used to be with Pentagram, to design the book. And and I'm so glad I I probably thought that I had the wherewithal to do a book like this. And then as I got into it, I realized that this was so overwhelming. And, and and laying out a book is really, a whole discipline into itself. And, and so Julie, came on to the project and she frankly is, the reason why this book turned out so beautifully. It it really it it it was sort of bringing a lot I think Tim took close to 20,000 photographs, on this project.

Tom Rowland: Really?

Michael Medrano: And so calling it down to 200 pages was a lot more difficult than it would sound like.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. I mean, going from from, 20,000 photos, how many photos do you think are in here? Because you got you got some pages that, you know, have six or eight photos, and then you got these giant big landscape ones. Do you have any idea how many photos are in here?

Michael Medrano: Yeah. I I I think the last count is I mean, it's several 100.

Tom Rowland: Wow. Yeah. Well, he did a really good job. You know, the photography is is incredible, and it captures it captures a lot of, not just the the the cabins and stuff like that, but, obviously, the lifestyle. I mean, there's, like, bumper stickers and these these signs and all this stuff that's kind of around and then people fishing, like, around these these cabins. It's really, really cool.

Michael Medrano: Tom, one one of the things that was really a surprise, I would say, doing this book. So we I run a little maverick HPXT. They don't even make that boat anymore. They make the V holes. So it's a it's not a very big boat. And so I've got Tim Romano on the boat, and and myself. So there's just the two of us. All his gear. And so we show up to some of these cabins literally unannounced, and we knock on the door. And, you know, I I could just I mean, I'm I'm sort of just chuckling thinking about it. I mean, he and I, knocking on a door, a couple crusty old guys come out like, what what what the hell do y'all want? And then and we're sort of pitching this story to them, and then we've got this this release, this waiver that they're they're a model. And that that's what Tim's release said. It's basically, you're a model, and you're you're giving us the right to take a picture of you and to put you in a book. And these guys, you know, after that little introduction, they'd say you know, it could have been 09:00 in the morning. They'd say, you guys want a beer? And we'd say, okay. Sure.

Tom Rowland: What do you mean to say, man? I mean, looking at some of the pictures here, it looks like you met some some real characters.

Michael Medrano: It was so much that was the big surprise of the book. I mean, literally friends to this day. Yeah. Really funny.

Tom Rowland: Well, it's easy to make friends when you start drinking beer at 09:00 in the morning.

Michael Medrano: That's true. That's true.

Tom Rowland: What was what were some of the biggest challenges? Like, obviously, laying the book out and you get in kinda over your head. Like, I'm supposed to be writing this book, but, I mean, you're not a what what do you do for a living? You're not a writer necessarily, are you?

Michael Medrano: No, no, no, no. No. Just a business guy. But that was difficult. I think really, and Julie did a lot of the work in terms of laying it out. But writing the text, making the book, I think the other goal was to make it fun and as much of a journey going through the book as it was shooting the book. That was kind of the ultimate dream. Obviously, you can do that a little bit, maybe a little easier with a video. But I wanted I love the permanence of a book. And it seems like at least these days, video is such a not a keepsake really. It's sort of it's a one and done. You watch it and then you just you forget where you put it. And to me, I wanted this this was such a culmination of a quest that turned into a reality personally for me. Just having wanted one and then, you know, I got it I never I don't know if I ever told you that. I got invited post college to go duck hunt in one of these. Oh, yeah. So sort of a buddy a buddy of a buddy had one in the dead of winter. I and I kinda talk about it a little bit in the book. And so I we show up, a handful of us, to duck hunt. And it and it's sort of like duck hunt during the day and then trout fish at night. It just like it we never slept for a weekend, and it was so much fun. And so I I just, you know, having one and then, you know, it was really difficult to get it and then to, you know, remodel it and then get it to where it was at least livable. And and my wife's gone out there once. That's the next question. Yeah.

Tom Rowland: Does your wife like this one?

Michael Medrano: Yeah. She's been out there once, and and that's a that's a big accomplishment. And and so, you know, I felt like this book needed to to really embody that journey of what it's like to kinda go from from coast the the various coasts that we have and and just and anyway, so that that was kind of the spirit behind this is really make it kind of a journey. And, Tim did a great job. Julie, of course, did an awesome job as well. And, and but but trying to capture that essence was, frankly, at the end of the day, took a lot longer and was more difficult than I had expected it was gonna be.

Tom Rowland: Wow. Yeah. I can imagine. I mean, did you deal with weather and stuff like that too? Like, you got you got a guy like Tim Romano coming from the Rocky Mountains. Does he still live in the Rockies?

Michael Medrano: Yeah. But he's he's a tough guy, and he's he's salty in his own right. So it was

Tom Rowland: Yeah. But still, you know, I mean, you you gotta go out there in a small boat, and you got I mean, Texas can have some some very serious weather. So Yeah. You know, you did you run into any kind of issues like that? I mean, we run into that stuff all the time as soon as we decide we're gonna film a TV show. It's Yeah. Blowing 200 miles an hour and raining sideways. Did you have any of that kinda issue?

Michael Medrano: We we we got sprinkled. We never got a downpour. I think I think the biggest issue we we ran into was, just the seas. Yes. And so breaking it up as we did sort of the Upper Coast, that wasn't terrible. And we could sort of find a port pretty quickly. When we got into the Middle Coast, that got a little dicier because we were kind of venturing far away from where our home base was. And so navigating across the open bay, it we got wet, put it that way, and it wasn't from rain. And then the South Texas portion, our home base there was Port Mansfield, which is sort of equidistance between Corpus Christi and South Padre. So I ran that little Maverick on one day in particular over a 100 miles. And so you know what that's like on a skip, running a 100 mile. And, so that that was you know, it was again, it was just part of the adventure. We were, we had fun. Well We were a little sore at the end of that trip.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. Well, I'm about to find out what it's like to run a little boat like that, 1,300 miles. We're supposed to have the SCIF Challenge, which is a race around Florida to, bring awareness to the water issues. We were supposed to have it, couple of weeks ago, what, April 1, right around April 1. And it was canceled because of the coronavirus. They're trying to reschedule it for September, but it's a race that goes from the Florida, Alabama Florida line, Florida line to around Key West and back up to Jacksonville. So talk about being sore because, I mean, I I've run a skiff a lot and, you do get very sore. One of the worst stories about that, I guess, would be fishing the Gold Cup tournament out of Islamorada, running to Key West and then out to the refueling and then go into the Marquesas and doing that every day. So that's like a, I don't know, that's like a probably a 130 mile trip five days in a row. Man, that I just decided I didn't think I was gonna need to learn some spots a little closer to the tournament tournament area if I was gonna keep doing that. But, yeah, very, very tough. But that yes. In Texas, you're probably across some of these bays. When we fished the redfish tournament in Texas, we fished Kemah. And Kima was maybe the roughest place I've ever seen that place. That was, I didn't know how anyone fished there. I mean, literally coming from Florida and you're, we were so spoiled, you know, we get in these shallow draft boats and we go to Florida Everglades and, you know, Flamingo and it's, you can run banks along the way, and you're fishing in very shallow water and it's never that rough. So even if it's blowing super hard, but man, we got there and I mean, I remember one guy, he was so scared that he installed two bilge pumps in the in the, cockpit of his Maverick. Two bilge pumps and just had them, like, rigged. The wires were just going into the console, you know. And He just wanted to make sure that if he swamped that boat, he was gonna keep going because the Florida guys were scared to death of that Kemah area. It was it was that was serious water, man. So

Michael Medrano: Well, not only is it deep, but you've got the shipping lane that runs right through the the middle of Kemah. So you get those big ships that come through. Boy, they push a wake that will that will literally capsize a boat.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. I can I can believe it? We thought we were gonna capsize just leaving. I can't even remember where where on that, shoreline the tournament was being held, but there was a tight channel that went out. And, man, as soon as you got out to the markers, the wind hit you sideways and the seas, you know, were huge. As soon as you got out of the lee right there, it was it was serious. And people were trying to do that in these little boats, and it it was borderline very, very scary. Do you fish that area, Kemah?

Michael Medrano: I don't much. I I I I have, but I don't really anymore. And, I I sort of wait to get down to South Texas. That that's sort of my favorite place to fish.

Tom Rowland: Well, that was a lot different. The South Texas was much more like our Florida fishing than the Kemah fishing. We felt way more where Port Aransas area, we we fished down there, and it was beautiful. I mean, we were seeing tail and fish all over the place. You can actually see into the water, and and we felt much, much more comfortable there than we did in Kemah. I didn't know what to do in Kemah. That was one of the weirdest places to fish, and I just had so much respect for those guys that fish there every year every day because I mean, they were doing things that I had never seen before, like, just looking out over the the water and finding fish because they would see where they were feeding and the the oil from the other fish would would come up to the surface. And, I I mean, I know that you do that in some places, and that's pretty common. But the water here, when I say it was the color of of the the road, like, it was the color of asphalt. It was so gray. You could see less than an eighth of an inch into the water. And these guys are able to find fish and catch them there. And I I mean, most of the Florida guys were at a loss. Just Yeah. Completely lost. Had no idea what to do. And those guys were they could do it. It's amazing.

Michael Medrano: Yeah. It is. And what's even more amazing is, the petrochemical facilities that we have in the Galveston Bay Complex. And it is such a prolific fishery. The oysters that are there, I mean, the times that I do fish and I've got a lot of buddies that fish in that body of water and they just consistently catch fish. It's really it's it's a testament to to the the resource that we have here in Texas. It's amazing.

Tom Rowland: When you say petrochemical, you you reference that. What do you mean? Like, you're fishing around that that kind of stuff?

Michael Medrano: You know, there's there's a couple pictures in the book of cabins with the background

Tom Rowland: Yeah. I saw that.

Michael Medrano: Like that like that kind of petrochemical.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. And you see that in Louisiana a little bit too, and it's just the fishing is just so good that you can plop one of these giant chemical plants right in the middle of it, and it's still good. Yeah. It's it's crazy. But I did I did see that. What about the, do they do you have the, the small little little oil, I guess it's a well of some sort or natural gas well or an oil well? We we fish around these things in in Louisiana all the time and you see you see those. Do you is that is that something that you're fishing around?

Michael Medrano: Well, definitely in that in that Kemah, Galveston. I would say that's really more, East Bay

Tom Rowland: Yeah.

Michael Medrano: In the Galveston Bay complex. And you're right. I mean, those things can turn into, you know, sort of a little fish mecca as well.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. I mean, anything. And and then, you know, what we found is that there were there was also sorts of stuff around there. Like, I don't know if the people that were working on the on the, the boat that that usually goes out there, their tractor broke or something. They just dumped it in the water, and there was all kinds of stuff to hit. We hit we hit everything. It was a nightmare. First time I went to Louisiana, I had no idea what what I was doing. And then it I really got scared because we hit we hit a number of things that weren't supposed to be Oh,

Michael Medrano: you did?

Tom Rowland: Yeah. Yeah. We I mean, and and, you know, the the chart says it's clean. So who knows what it was? You know? But it was pretty solid. And, we we managed to not rip the rip the motor off the back of the boat. But, I mean, within the first fifteen minutes, we had hit something really hard, which was probably the best time to hit it because that really slowed us down. I think we were like, okay. Yeah. Hold on. We don't know what we're doing. And if you go up this little cut that looks exactly like this little cut, this one has a whole bunch of, you know, pipelines and stuff in it. So don't do that. So we really, really had to be super careful. But that's cool, man. This is a this is a really great book. I would certainly encourage anybody that is looking for a coffee table book or or whatever to check this one out because the photography in this is really good, and it really does tell. You did you guys did a good really good job all the way when it's laid out to the photography to just how kind of it it moves from, you know, down the coast in a in a logical kind of way that I'm not even that familiar with Texas, but I could kinda follow it in the maps. It's really cool. It's really a really a nicely done thing that makes me realize I need to get and fish Texas more often because the amount of of diversity in in the fishing and the landscape and the stuff that you're showing in here, like, what we're talking about, like, between Kima and Port Aransas. That's quite a different

Michael Medrano: It really is.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. But I'm I loved it. I I gotta get over there and fish with you. We were planning on on, doing a little something for this book, and, that's when that hurricane hit. Right? What hurricane was that? That was, one that hit so bad.

Michael Medrano: That wasn't Harvey. The one before Harvey, I believe.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. I was I was disappointed that we couldn't make that happen. So we met, Christmas Island. And, have you have you done any more trips like that since then?

Michael Medrano: Well, I thought I thought about a lot more trips like that. I've I've I've I've I've I've done some, Bahama fishing and then took another big trip. It was it was without the boys to the Seychelles. Oh, nice. Yeah. But but but, you know, again, I think about that Christmas Island trip. What a that was that fishery was something else. And,

Tom Rowland: It's really one of my favorite trips ever. And I don't know about you, but one of the things that I liked about Christmas Island so much, and you may have seen this in in The Seychelles too. I've never been there. But it was just such a lack of of worldly influence on that island. Like, it was, like, literally I mean, you it's one thing where you fly, like, fly a long way and you get some place and everybody's wearing, like, NBA jerseys, and and there's McDonald's, and there's, you know, like, a a real American influence. And when we got to Christmas Island, it was not like that. I mean, that was like you felt like you were out in the middle of nowhere, and you you are.

Michael Medrano: You are in the middle of nowhere.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. But that was one of my favorite things about that. Like, it was just Yeah. Super cool.

Michael Medrano: And the people and the people were so welcoming too. What wouldn't that just

Tom Rowland: Yeah. I could easily go back to Christmas Island. I've been there twice. That was the second time, and I I you know, and it was such a important trip for me, because my my oldest son had was graduating high school, and that's what we were celebrating. I can't remember. Your boys are just a little bit older than mine. So what were you guys Yeah. Doing?

Michael Medrano: No. It it was it was our our middle child, that was graduating. And, and so we dragged the older one along with him. And and I I don't know if you recall, but but Ben is at the time, he certainly was the least fishy of the two boys.

Tom Rowland: Yeah.

Michael Medrano: And so he really felt like it was a graduation present for his older brother. And,

Tom Rowland: Yeah. But but as I remember, he, he did quite well and and came right in doing really well. Yeah. It was it was funny how similar the trips were because, you know, I was doing a a a celebration for my oldest son. You were doing a celebration for your youngest son. My younger son kind of I I mean, I just told my older son, like, Turner, we really need to bring Hayden. Like, this is a once in a lifetime kinda thing maybe, and let's let's ask him. And he's like, yeah. Of course. Let's let's go. And, so we we take we take the two boys, and it was fantastic because we just had so much good time together. But I'll just never forget, like, checking you guys out in the airport. I'm like, I bet they're going where we are. And then, you know, the boys are about the same age and just look cool. It was a it was a

Michael Medrano: It was fun.

Tom Rowland: Sweet deal.

Michael Medrano: Yeah. And we and we were roommates too. Sort of bunk bunk housemates.

Tom Rowland: I know. I know. And then then it worked out nicely too because there was a whole other group of people that we you know, had had we not, gotten together, we would have pretty much just been outsiders to that other other group. Like, I don't know. The camp could probably hold, like, what, 20 and Yeah. 16 of them were were came together. So it it just worked out perfect. It was great. We need to we need to do another trip like that.

Michael Medrano: Yeah. I I agree. And and and I don't know if you remember this this other there were sort of like three three groups in the airport in Hawaii that we're all kind of looking at each other. I don't, you know, I wonder if this guy and these are gonna go to the same place. And it was a it looked like a husband wife team, a real big guy. And and I remember sort of talking it up with him, and he he he was checking out his fly box. And all he had really brought were trigger fish flies. Do you remember this?

Tom Rowland: I know. Yeah. Yes. I do.

Michael Medrano: And, and and and I hadn't really put that on my radar as the quarry that we would be going after. But he started basically telling me that that's all he would go after were trigger fish. And that ended up becoming so fun to go after

Tom Rowland: I know.

Michael Medrano: When we were there.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. That was great. And and that's what was I I think that we even talked about that shortly after. You're like, oh, I just met this guy, and all he wants to do is triggerfish. And so I had been to Christmas Island almost twenty years before, and we didn't throw at a triggerfish one time. Not we didn't throw it a milkfish one time. We didn't throw it any it was not something that they fish for at that time. And so to to go back and have this change so much that that's, like, the number one target was interesting. So, I mean, when I went there the first time, I was like, what's that? That looks cool. Let's fish for that. And the guys are like, no. No. We will go bonefish, man, up here. You know? And and we keep going, and I'm like, I don't know. It seems like seems pretty cool. Like, I should probably try to catch one of these triggerfish, but we never did. And, and that added a lot to that trip, because you could catch bonefish. You could have a second rod. God would would be carrying the second rod for you, and then and you'd start fishing for these triggerfish. But there'd only be, like, you know, four or five different shots, and then then right back to the bonefish. And then you'd just walk, and you could catch bonefish all the way down until you saw more triggerfish, and then you could move to that. And then the Trivally. Christmas Island had such a good, mix, and you ended up with the with the biggest fish of the whole trip. Yeah. That's true. Yeah. A nice nice nice giant Trivally. I saw maybe one really good one there, but didn't I didn't have any luck with it. Is that what you're efficient for in Cosmelto or Seychelles?

Michael Medrano: Yeah. That that's where we went in in The Seychelles was Cosmelto. And and that is that's sort of like target number one are the GTs. We've kind of had a marginal trip if I were to grade it. Lots on the milks bones and a few of the which was really fun, the Indo Pacific permits.

Tom Rowland: Yes.

Michael Medrano: What a cool fish that is. But the GTs for some reason were out of the lagoon. And, they they claimed that they typically feed on these red crabs. I don't know if you remember all those red crabs in Christmas Island.

Tom Rowland: Well, I do. And and we saw some red crabs when when we were there, together. But on the trip before, when I went twenty years before, they were everywhere. I mean, and I told my boys about them. I'm like, when we get there, you won't believe what I thought that just happened all the time, but apparently, I was there during the walk. Like, there's a certain time of the year where those crabs walk, and they were they were on the road so thick that you couldn't see the road. And I remember taking a run, and and I would run, and they would get out of the way just before my foot struck down. Cause I was like, oh, I can't run on the road, but I started walking and they would get out of the way just in time for your foot. And so I started walking a little faster and a little faster and a little faster. It turns out that you could run and it just looked like you were just gonna land on a bunch of crabs, but they would move out of the way just enough. And it was one of the coolest and weirdest and spookiest runs I've ever had. But I told the boys about it. I was like, you won't believe these crabs. And then we didn't see very many.

Michael Medrano: I was

Tom Rowland: like, oh, they're like, oh, no. That's only one time a year. So I had hit it perfect the first time.

Michael Medrano: Well, I I think I think that's what those GTs like to eat. And, in Cosmelito, when we were there, those red crabs, apparently, they're very prolific, had gotten blown out of the lagoon. And and so the GTs went outside the lagoon and were feeding on the red crabs that were out at sea.

Tom Rowland: Well, that's an amazing I mean, I I could see how that could happen because that's an amazing amount of biomass, you know, moving out. Those fish have to eat it. You know? They Yeah. I would imagine if that's what's going on. I've never heard that before, but I don't I would like to say I fish in the South Pacific much more than I do. I've been there twice. So my my experience is very limited. But I have talked to some other people who went to The Seychelles. They had a really, really good trip. Do you have any other trips that you would that you think about or you wanna do?

Michael Medrano: You know, there's, I I've never been peacock bass fishing.

Tom Rowland: Mhmm.

Michael Medrano: And and that just seems, especially on a fly rod, like such a cool fish to catch. I'd I'd I'd like to do that, and, I've never been to Alaska. Oh, really? Yeah.

Tom Rowland: Well, both of those are good. First of all, you can come to Florida and do the peacock bass fishing. You don't have to go, around the world. They have some really amazing peacock bass fishing in Florida, and all these other exotics. I'm I'm I'm I have this one fish on my list that has been on my list for a long time because I had one in college. And I've said this everybody listens to this podcast probably really tired of the story, but I had this fish called a royal knifefish or a clown knifefish. And it's this very strange looking fish that has a has a, a fin on the bottom that that kinda undulates. It's not like a it doesn't have, like, a tail like a bonefish. It's got, like, a more of, like, a eel look to it. And, and somehow these have gotten into this this chain of lakes, Lake Ida in the in Florida, and they're getting really big, like, really big. I'd say that the biggest one in the world might be 15 pounds, and they're catching them twelve and thirteen probably or eleven and ten. I don't know. They look huge. So I've always wanted to catch catch one of those since the first time that I saw somebody was catching them. So I was like, I had that fish in an aquarium for years. So that would be something, fun to do, to do that. But I I've wanted to go to the Amazon and do that. Then the Arapaima is another fish that I thought would be cool. But the Alaska trip, that's one I'd love to take the boys or or or even my daughter on because it just, that's that's one like Christmas Island. I mean, if you go up there during the right week, everybody catches fish. And there's there's so many different things. Like if you're a really good fisherman and you're tired of catching salmon, you can go and fish for the rainbows and they can be really hard to catch. And, you know, that's like that's like the guy that went up went to Christmas Island, and all he wanted to do was fish for for triggerfish. Like, he had already caught enough bonefish. He had already caught enough trevally. Now he was just dialed in on these. So you'll get people that'll go up to Alaska, and they'll only be interested in the rainbows. But, you know, somebody that has a little bit less experience will catch chum salmon all day long, like as many as you want. And there's nothing wrong with them. They're amazing. They're so fun to fish. They're they're actually a little bit too easy to catch for some people. They're just like, yeah. Okay. Now move on to the next thing. You know?

Michael Medrano: Right.

Tom Rowland: But that's what I love about Alaska is you could take you could take a family up there where everyone has different interests, different different, skill levels, different attention spans, and everybody's gonna find something they like to fish for. And, you know, I loved it. Like, if you're into really big fish, they got king salmon. If you're into, you know, the the smaller fish, then you can fish for the the grayling, or you could fish for the rainbows, or you can you could just do it in so many different ways. I don't know. That'd be a great trip. Really great trip, Alaska. But the Arapaima, I had a guy on the podcast recently, and he was catching those Arapaima. And that sounded pretty awesome, but it didn't sound like you caught a lot. That's what I like to do.

Michael Medrano: I think they're pretty hard, aren't they?

Tom Rowland: Yeah. I think so. I mean, I think you catch a few a day maybe maybe. I don't know. But that's the thing I liked about Christmas Island is you can catch a lot of fish there. And and there were ways that if you wanted to, if you were like, you know, you got tired of catching the the midsize bonefish, you could you you could tell the guide, like, I only wanna try for big ones this afternoon. And you weren't gonna catch as many, but you might catch some bigger ones. But somebody was just after numbers, man. You could just rack them up.

Michael Medrano: I know. All day long.

Tom Rowland: I had that fly, the green worm.

Michael Medrano: Do you remember the green worm? That. I I think I may still have a couple of your yellow and orange worm.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. Well, I had this fly that was the green worm, and it was made out of, it was made out of, like, looked like a off a skirt or the material that you would make a skirt for a marlin lure. And it was just this green, plastic with, sparkles in it. And, I just cut some like a palolo worm, like a little bitty french fry, and I had lashed that on the hook. No hackle, nothing but lead eyes and this strip. And I showed it to the guide on and I had green ones and I had red ones. And, anyway

Michael Medrano: Yellow and orange ones.

Tom Rowland: Yellow and orange ones. Yeah.

Michael Medrano: Yeah. And

Tom Rowland: I I didn't tie that many because I didn't think they would work that great. I showed it to the guy day one. He was like, no. No. I don't. He picked that one. He looked in the box, and that's he that's first one he said no to, and then he found out found, like, a more conventional one. So I've snuck it on there. And he's like, what'd you catch that on? Greenworm. He's like, really? And he said, let me see. And he he wanted to take the hook out of the fish himself, And he looks over there and he's like, he just looks at the fly, like green worm, the green worm. He just kept saying the green worm. And then I proceeded to throw that in front of, I think, every fish that saw it ate it. And I just gave him all the rest of them, and he was like, the green worm. He just went home dumbfounded. The green worm.

Michael Medrano: Heck, I I think all of us were dumbfounded too. You you were you were kind enough to give us a few.

Tom Rowland: Well, I was I was happy that that one worked because it is the easiest fly in the world to tie. And, you know, I'm I'm only a marginal fly tire, so I need I need easy flies to tie. If they get real, you know, crab patterns and crazy things, I can tie them, but I don't like to. I can turn out a lot of green worms. Dozens. Hundreds of Hey, now

Michael Medrano: I tell you what we need to do is we we need to figure out the fly for our, our sheepshead, which is essentially like the triggerfish that we were catching. Right? Yeah. And and I think they bite really the same way. At least a few triggerfish that I've caught is a very similar bite to a triggerfish. When

Tom Rowland: you're, fishing for the trigger or the, sheepshead, are they super spooky?

Michael Medrano: Very. Very, very.

Tom Rowland: They're super spooky in, Flamingo and Florida too. And a lot of people are starting to to fish for those much more seriously, like, going after them as a target. And their flies are and, you know, when that starts happening, the flies start to get better and better and better just like with permit fishing or anything else where now now if it becomes a thing, then people will start, you know, putting time and effort into making the flies better or whatever. But I always caught them on, live sand fleas, like, when I was bait fish for them. And I know that they eat those things really, really good. So Yeah. That'd be where I would start is, is try tie a fly that looks like a sand flea, which I don't know. That seems seems tough a little bit. I had to put put a good fly tire like Drew Ciccone on it, and he let him tie a sand flea pattern for us. But, yeah. How do you fish for them now? Do you do you throw way out in front of them and then just wait for them to find it, or you're trying to cast at them?

Michael Medrano: Yeah. A a little a little of both. I I we we sort of seem to find, at least in the the real skinny water, the little ones are very skittish. Some of these bigger ones kinda will will hunker down a little bit longer, but they're they're very boat skittish. Yeah. You get the boat too close, and they're gone.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. Yeah. They have been I mean, they're real tough. We don't we don't catch a lot of them. The only time I've ever caught a lot of them was when I was fishing with bait and fishing in water that was deep enough that they couldn't see us. And, and you could you could catch a lot of them around pilings and stuff like that. But, you know, they the sheep head does eat well. I don't know if you ever eaten one. They're kinda hard to clean. They got a lot of bones in them, but they they do eat.

Michael Medrano: Yeah.

Tom Rowland: They do eat very well. So, but more people are trying to catch them. Yeah. So do you fish with, like, crab patterns, or or what do you because they seem like they would be something that would eat something with a shell on it if you just look at the male structure.

Michael Medrano: Yeah. And and and and it's really the smaller, the better, I found. I mean, I wouldn't say that I'm a prolific, sheepshead catcher. But but but at least the looks that I've gotten, they've tended to be a little bit smaller, offering than than a large shrimp pattern or a large crab.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. Well, I don't know. You gotta get it in the water. That's a big that's a big part of fishing for a spooky fish is they might eat they might eat stuff that's a little bit bigger like a like a permit. You know, maybe a larger fly would work well, but you gotta actually cast it over there, and you gotta get it in the water and and and do that all without spooking them. So, you know, maybe a smaller fly helps with that too. You can cast a lot closer to them. And if you can cast closer to them, then you're more likely to intercept them on their on their path. But, yeah, I'd like to do that. I'd like to come over there to to Texas. I got some other friends, in Texas that I'd like to see too. It's funny because, my friend, he he used to live a lot closer to us, and then, he is the athletic director at SMU. And, it was funny because when I met you, you actually reminded me a lot of of my friend. And I was like, That's weird. And That's funny. And then you were both from from Texas. So it's interesting. So what's on the what's on the, the horizon for you? You got trips planned. You got books. You're gonna just go back to work. What are you doing?

Michael Medrano: Yeah. No. I I, I'm I'm running a company, today called ScoreVision, which is a, yeah, really, really cool company. It's headquartered in Omaha, Nebraska. I live in Houston, Texas. So and we have an office in Houston. But they ScoreVision is a software company that's developed scoring and some video capture technology used primarily by high schools and colleges to elevate their game time production, etcetera. And so, we've I've been involved with ScoreVision for a little over two years now. And so it's been really such a fun venture, and the business is doing really, really well. And, we're looking forward to school getting back to a new normal, sometime soon. So hopefully hope everybody is in a position to start schools back up in the fall. I know I know at least the schools in Texas are talking about it, but, you know, various parts of the country are a little different.

Tom Rowland: I've already heard that some, California schools have already just said that they're not going back, which I think is very early. Like, how how could you possibly know this early that you're not gonna open in the fall? It just seems really early.

Michael Medrano: I agree. I think I think we need to wait and see. I just hope that, you know, we all don't just put our hopes on on some sort of elusive vaccine as the criteria with which we look at the world as normal again because I I don't know if that's if that's a I don't know if that's the proper reality.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. Well, it seems like it's a long way down the road. I don't know. I always I I kind of kinda thought that the whole purpose of the lockdown was to not overwhelm the hospitals and Yeah. That people were gonna get sick with this, you know, probably. But we don't want it all to happen at once. You know? So let's, you know, flatten the curve or whatever. But, I don't know. I hope everybody goes back to school. I hope everybody has a football season this fall and and and other sports. As far as score vision goes, does that allow, like like, high schools or colleges to televise their games or stream their games? Is that what is that kind of the the technology that that you're working on?

Michael Medrano: It it's it yes is the short answer to that. We we actually just acquired a business, closed on it on March 31. It was a company based in Sacramento, California called FanTag. And these guys had developed some video capture, technology. And it enables somebody to do this OTT type streaming, the over the top type streaming. But it's all through, an app. And and you can input just traditional cameras into the system. But we acquired them really to bring video capture in terms of being able to sling out moments, highlights, and then ultimately, also be able to provide live stream of athletic games. And and I guess hopefully looking back, it may have been a very timely acquisition given what's going on. But but but the premise behind what we do is really to enable schools to do a lot more with little budgets. And so, it's just been fun to see how these high schools and colleges, but really you know, people who couldn't afford to do something cool like that be able to do that with our software.

Tom Rowland: Right. That's I'm I'm working with something kinda similar, as we do this. And I keep looking down because I'm actually switching these cameras. I've got a bunch of different cameras as well as the Zoom thing that we're doing. And then I can switch all the cameras right here. And and I was telling my son, I'm like, what I have right here didn't cost very much, but it would have been a a production truck parked in the driveway a couple years ago worth a million dollars. Right? And now that technology is coming down so much, and I can livestream. Like, right now, this is going out to YouTube and Facebook live. We tried to do the, we tried to do the Instagram live Instagram. Which I think do you think that the people that you work with, as far as, all this video capture technology, you're gonna think that it's funny that we couldn't get this Zoom call going? I It's too much technology.

Michael Medrano: To tell anybody. Exactly.

Tom Rowland: Well, I mean, sometimes it works really well. But I do believe a 100% that that you're in the right space because I feel like, you know, even just in this quarantine, I mean, Zoom calls, now that's a part of the vernacular. Like, people are like, yeah. I do Zoom calls every single day, or I'd you know, we're doing a video conference or whatever. I think the technology is gonna rapidly advance in in all of this to where the the, the audio is gonna get far better. The video is gonna get far better. I think the cameras in in that come in a computer just like you see the cameras on on cell phones have gotten better, but that's for people wanting to take pictures and stuff like that. I think you're gonna see a lot of technology, you know, not just with companies like you, but with the big guys like Apple and and the, you know, Samsungs and the people that make the phones, they're going to start making the front facing camera as good as the back facing camera. So people can do more, video conferencing and things like that. And the next thing you know, it's gonna be like you have somebody sitting next to you. I mean, we're gonna look back at these days kinda like I know. You remember when we had those clunky video conference things like a Zoom and just kinda, you know, maybe Zoom can keep up. I hope you can Zoom, but, you know, usually, the leaders get overtaken. But I do think that there's gonna be a tremendous amount of of, of technology in this space. You guys are probably already working on it and know way more what's coming up than I do, but it is pretty exciting. No.

Michael Medrano: It's fun. Yeah. It's fun. It's fun to be working with kids and and and really show them how they can do what they have always wanted to do but never really could. And so that's been great. I'll tell you ever more today than maybe even before, just being out on the water and smelling the salt air is just, oh my gosh, what a place to be. And you know, for for a while, the the place that I like to fish, like I've mentioned, is is, South Texas. And I normally call home base Port Mansfield. And they they've had that port, that marina completely shut down. You couldn't even launch or, or or take a boat out of the water if it was already in the water Wow. For the better part of a month and a half. And so, you know, I don't know. Being being outdoors is still a magical place, and and I think this makes it even more so.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. I think I've I've certainly seen that more people are pushing towards the outdoors. I mean, you have a lot of businesses right now that are certainly struggling, and you have a lot of businesses that are that are doing the best they've ever done. And some of that is fishing tackle, like, cast nets. I know that the cast net barracuda is sold out of cast nets. Best month they ever had.

Michael Medrano: Wow.

Tom Rowland: And and then, you know, on on the other hand, you have somebody that's not selling much of anything, but it's like people want to get back out there so bad, and it's the perfect social distancing. I mean, that's what fishing is all about. I don't wanna fish next to anyone. And I don't need six feet. I need six miles

Michael Medrano: Exactly.

Tom Rowland: Between between me and the next person. But, I don't know. I think I think you'll I hope that people will continue to push towards the outdoors when we get back to normal. I think we are getting back to normal. Are you seeing in Texas, like, that port Fort Mansfield that people can now go and get their boats out of the water? Because I would imagine you have a tremendous amount of growth on the bottom of your boat after fifty days of quarantine.

Michael Medrano: Yeah. No. They they opened it back up. You know, I I don't know if this is a a proper generalization, but but it it sort of seems like the people of Texas, don't really like to be sequestered in the teepee. You know what I mean? Like, it it

Tom Rowland: that they do. That they do.

Michael Medrano: Yeah. Like, you you know, you you tell sort of, generally speaking, you know, the Texans that they can't do something and they wanna do what you just said you can't do. So I I think I think the troops are definitely restless here and, and and and it's it's really evidenced by just sort of walking around and and, you know, I don't know. I I I think we can do it smart, but but hopefully hopefully, it's sooner rather than later.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. I hope so, man. I'd I really do. But, anyway, I know you're a busy guy. So I wanna thank you for coming on the show today and showing us this awesome book. I've got the book right here. Let me show it to everybody one more time with my fancy switching camera here down the thing. It's called Stilt Houses of Texas, Michael Medrano and, Tim Romano. It's a beautiful book, so you should check that out for sure. And, that's gonna be it for today. Michael, how would people get in touch with you? How would they see your book? How could they buy your book? What, what how do they do that?

Michael Medrano: Yeah. We have a we have a website for the book, stilthouses.com. You can also find the book on Amazon. But, the website talks more about the book. And, and you can buy it there or you can buy it on amazon.com.

Tom Rowland: Okay. And, what about you got any social media or anything like that?

Michael Medrano: Yes. Still houses on Instagram. And then, we have a contact page on that website as well. Happy to interact. In fact, I've had a couple calls in the last few months on from people wanting to figure out how to how to get a cabin. So I'm happy to be a how to guide as well.

Tom Rowland: That you can tell them how to get a cabin, but not the one next to you. Right?

Michael Medrano: Exactly. Yeah.

Tom Rowland: That one's not for sale. But, anyway alright, man. Well, it's awesome catching up with you. I hope you'll tell your boys hi. I know, we talked just briefly before. One of them is getting married. That's really cool. And, we're just moving into this next season of life. So as as we do that and somebody gets married or I get Turner, he's about to graduate college. Hayden is is, he's gonna be a sophomore in college. So I don't know. We got some kind of oh, and my daughter's gonna graduate from high school next year. So there's a lot of possible celebrations we might be able to go peacock bass fishing or, Alaska. That sounds awesome.

Michael Medrano: Hey. You're you're welcome anytime to just come catch a trout or a redfish, or maybe we can try to spice it up and catch a Texas tarpon.

Tom Rowland: Okay. What's a Texas tarpon? A carp?

Michael Medrano: A real a real tarpon that caught in Texas.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I'd like to catch a Texas tarpon. I've never caught a tarpon in Texas, but I'd be happy to. I also, one day, want to go to that area that, I was warned about so much that I just stayed away that has the, all the rock

Michael Medrano: Baffin Bay.

Tom Rowland: Baffin Bay. That's it. Yeah. I wanna go there sometime. We almost went there in the Redfish tournaments, but I understand that that's a very tricky place to navigate if you don't know what you're doing. So I'd love to see that sometime. And I'd also love to see your cabin, man. That'd be cool.

Michael Medrano: Let's do it.

Tom Rowland: Okay. Sounds awesome. Okay. So go follow, Michael Stilt House on Instagram and check out his book, and you will be super happy. Alright. Thanks, man. Tell your family I said hi, and we'll talk to you soon. Likewise.

Michael Medrano: Alright. See you, Tom.

Tom Rowland: See you.

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