Michael Waddell: The Bone Collector on Hunting and Outdoor TV

Tom Rowland Podcast — Episode 895: Michael 'The Bone Collector' Waddell

In this episode: turkey calling contests, the Realtree break, $100,000 cameras, and his dad's tough-love push — in the exact words spoken.

00:00 · Cold Open

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Michael Waddell: There's a man or woman listening or watching this podcast, and you've always wanted to do something. Go for it. But go for it with everything in you and have the confidence that you can be great in it. Because the reason I say that, I started realizing that a lot of my friends and even my family, they are just living this slow, conservative, safe route to death. And that's pretty bold of me to say that, but it it it they're not taking any chances. And I have learned that you do fail a lot, but but if you keep getting back up and swinging, you succeed. And so with this in America, there's so many ways. I mean, there's gotta be a Jay z. There's gotta be a Beyonce. Yeah. There's gotta be a Tom Rowland. There's gotta be a Michael Jordan. There's gotta be a Chuck Adams. There's gotta be a Dale Earnhardt. Who who in some of these areas that we have a chance to play in could think that they would be a livelihood? I'm not saying that's easy, but it's not it's not wrong for Americans or anybody or or human being to go after being into this 10% or 20%. And I think what happens is most of the people who love us the most, I catch myself as a parent now doing it, we try to push into this safe zone of this 90% of making a livelihood, you know, working at a high rise or being in the agency rather than to push to own the agency. And so in a deep way, I think that's the problem with America. Now we're getting to the point where people don't even wanna work. They just wanna set a home and just get something given to them. And so, I I think the American dream is still alive, but it's only alive if you dream and you have the the balls that I know that I I guess I can say it on this podcast to just go get after it Yeah. To go get after it. And if you fail, you can still jump back into that 80 percentile. Hi, everybody. I'm Michael Waddell with the TV show Bone Collector. Love to hunt and fish and do about anything outdoors, and I'm now on the Tom Rowland podcast.

06:02 · The Man from Booger Bottom

Tom Rowland: Michael Waddell, the man from Booger Bottom right here on the Tom Rowland Podcast. Man, I'm excited to have you, man. Thank you for doing this.

Michael Waddell: Oh, Tom, glad to be on here, man. Been excited to chat with you, man. I know y'all been wide open and had a lot of exciting things. And plus, we never had a chance to sit down and and really chat a lot. I mean, I've seen you around some of the shows, and, obviously, you've been a long time in TV. And, you know, mostly mostly wetting them hooks while I'm over there hunting hunting. But, yeah, I I I know we need to combine our adventures, and then we'd have the perfect situation.

Tom Rowland: I know. We could we could go well, the problem is is that you have a lot of the the the, the things that we like to do happen at the same time. Turkey hunting and tarpon fishing happen right at the same time, but, you know, we can work that out.

Michael Waddell: Exactly. And I've always I've always heard and I and, obviously, I know the addiction of turkey, but I've always heard that tarpon fishing is the exact same type of addiction. Mhmm. So, yeah, I I would I would probably be a complete physical and emotional wreck if I got into tarp and fishing because I wouldn't know which way to go. I'd be like, I had to cut myself in half.

07:04 · Turkey Addiction Meets Tarpon Addiction

Tom Rowland: Well, I I know. That's all you need is another is something else pulling on you. I'm sure that, I mean, you're you're a busy guy, man. You've got so much going on, and over the years, you've been able to keep it going on and and expand it and move on. Now you got the podcast going on, and, I don't I I it's one of the things that I wanted to talk to you about about how you have been able to balance, like, this this career that you've created, the the your own personal hunting because I'm I'm sure that hasn't stopped, and then you're a family man. I mean and then you're expanding these businesses, and you're doing more and more, and it just seems like, you know, even to to somebody like me that's got a lot of things going on, I look at somebody like you. I'm like, man, that's a trick. I mean, there is a trick to to balance and keep all of that thriving and not let one of those things, like your family life or this business over here, how have you done that?

Michael Waddell: Well, it's funny, Tom, and you're right. I I think a lot of our life and career has a lot of parallels. Like I said, me me more over in the the hunting side where where you and your fishing, and obviously, you know, you've been a guide for many years. And then now, obviously, when you step over into kind of this business adventure, which, that was something I wasn't ready for. But I would best say, I mean, a way to summarize it is I've had a lot of success on all of it, but I've also had a lot of failures on all of it. And somewhere in the middle has been this balance of learning from, you know, things that work and things that don't work. And, and it has. I mean, as you know, this lifestyle is such a blessing. I mean, I wake up and I pinch myself, honestly, you know, to be able to sit down and chat with you. I've met and had a chance to hang out with so many people I respect across the country, not just in our area as far as outdoors, hunting and fishing, but in every walk of life, from athletes to actors to actresses to singers, entertainers. And when you share this common bond of hunting and fishing, you know, it kind of, you become like this brother or sister. And I've always said that it really breaks down all the politics and barriers of financial situations from politics to anything. And so, but with that, to have a chance to take off and all of a sudden become representing of that, I think early in my career it was a little different because I think I was more greedy as to just the adventure and the hunt and trying to fill a tag. And so it was easy to neglect family and to just be blindsided. It was like, Man, I'm getting to do this. And so I was almost kind of game hog ish, if that's the word. You know, I was just so excited. I was young. I was ready to be on the road, where now I've learned to say no to some things that I still would love to go because, you know, I do have a T ball, a son and T ball. And this was the first year, Tom, speaking of that balance, this was the first year I've got five kids, and this year was the first year I've ever was a coach. Yeah. This past spring, I had a chance to coach my son in t ball. And, of course, you know, if you coach t ball, you're you're it really you don't have to coach. It's more of just a kind of a babysit and hug them and high five. But but, dude, it was kind of emotional because all my other kids came and watched Waylon, our youngest. You know, he's four. And I was like, Wow, this is amazing. But I did miss out on a lot of what I would have been turkey hunting or running around. And maybe it would have been, you know, getting a chance to catch a tarpon or something. And so, it has been extremely hard, but extremely, fun and life learning to figure out what is the best route. And, from business, I never woke up years ago and said, Man, I'm gonna be a businessman.

Tom Rowland: I mean,

Michael Waddell: I was I mean, matter of fact, I still struggle with the business aspect. I feel excited about getting into stuff creatively, which is one thing that brought you and I together because I love what you guys do in a Waypoint, and it's a cool, creative masterpiece if you ask me, to touch a whole another the same audience, but starting to make it easier. But,

Tom Rowland: we'll

Michael Waddell: talk about that later. But but overall, Tom, it's it's been fun, and I've learned, and I'm still learning. And, it is a balance because for me, I truly, legitimately absolutely love this outdoor lifestyle. So you got my number one hobby, And then I ended up having a chance to represent it and make a living at it. So that's good. I've always thought if you're purpose driven and you enjoy and have passion, and then you can learn to become great at something, you know, like for me, I'm not saying I'm the best, but I did become pretty good at hunting and shooting a bow and chasing turkeys like you did on trying to figure out how to catch a fish where somebody else maybe not could. But also it was a hobby and I'm still learning every day, so I just wanna keep getting more of it. I wanna go all the time. I don't consider going turkey hunting, you know, getting up and hunting at daylight and then, you know, 08:30, 09:00 eat breakfast. I'm so freaking obsessed with it that all of a sudden it's 03:00 and I hadn't stopped and those around me are starving. And I'm sure you've been that way, you know, in your passion to catch a fish, you know? And so for me, it's just been insane to to figure out a way to make a living out of it. But there is that hard balance of figuring out, like, I really want to do this. There is a financial reward to do this, plus there's an emotional reward because it becomes something I get to do again that I love. However, you know, my kids are having a chance to receive AB honor roll. I need to be there. So Yeah. So I've learned to balance that better. And to be honest with you, I probably failed more on the family side of it than I did on the entertainment side of of doing the TV stuff because I've learned better to to know when to say no. You know? Now, obviously, a little more gray in the beard, and you start appreciating things different. And, you know, and you realize your kids, they don't care what your ratings are. You know? They they they wanna see you around. They want you at that ball practice. They wanna go camping on a Friday night. They want to do those things. And so, I've learned a lot. And, I don't know, I feel like right now I've never been more excited to be where I'm at because I feel very convicted about all things outdoors to promote it. You know, we've seen in this COVID nightmare, the last really, that they've been completely over is, you know, for us, the outdoors is what it's meant. And to be honest, you know, not to be not empathetic to those who did really get hit hard when it comes to emotional and physical part of being kinda cooped up. For people like you and I, we just hit the water, you know, we hit the woods. You know, we

13:32 · Farm Life and Raising Kids

Tom Rowland: we Yeah. Social distancing. We've we've been social distancing for a long time. Like, you don't get too close. I don't I don't even want you over here. I don't wanna see anybody.

Michael Waddell: All those grouper plays come in handy last spring, you know? It's like, you know, wow. And and and so yeah. If if we don't have no chicken, well, we just kill one of ours. We got them here on the farm. You know, you get an extra tomato. You you don't give us way well, we still gave away a ton, but we had a garden. It was just It kind of put us back into what we wanted to do. But I know that was a long answer to that question. But overall, I think I'm still learning, but that has been the trick, to an outdoor career. Because I think a lot of people don't realize it, but it's, it's very similar to a professional athlete to where, you definitely have to balance and it becomes tough because it takes a toll on your family because 90% of what you do that's on television and or and representing and when you're handling business, typically you're out of town. You're going places, you're going to sales meetings, you're going to marketing meetings, you're out of town, you and doing a hunting show, and you're gone seven to ten days to get one episode. And so it becomes pretty, pretty stressful as far as the time. Certainly not looking for sympathy because our work is a lot of fun, and and there's no stress in the work. The only stress is, like, man, I wish I was home. You know, my my wife's battery is dead. Right. What do I do? Yeah. That You're having to call a friend. Yeah. You're having to call your father to pick something that typically, as a man, you would be there to have.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. That's definitely been one of the one of the things that that I've wrestled with the most. I I guess my kids are a little older than yours, probably. I've got a 23, a 21, and a 17. And, I did get to do exactly what you're doing right now and and and back off a little bit to be able to coach. I was a hockey coach and a wrestling. I didn't know anything about hockey, you know, but they needed a parent that could do something. So I I've learned how to skate and went out there and and, you know, we're roller hockey in Key West. You wouldn't think that that would be something that

Michael Waddell: that is

Tom Rowland: in Key West, but they do. And I could skate I always said I could skate just good enough to really hurt myself badly, because I could get going pretty fast, and I could even go a little bit backwards. But, man, it was I was teetering on the edge of a of a wipeout all the time. But then that wrestling coach and and and football coaching and soccer coaching and stuff like that, just just to take that little bit of time away from the the fishing and the business and everything else and spend that with the kids. It was it was really rewarding, and it was it it actually turned out to be something that, you know, it it didn't feel like, man, I'd really like to be out there. It was like, no. This is exactly where I wanna be. I wanna be doing exactly this, and that's an interesting feeling. Like, when you're doing you kinda feel like maybe the turkey woods are pulling you in that direction, but you're like, this is where I need to be. I killed enough turkeys. I've I've done, you know Yeah. Enough of this kind of stuff. And right now, this is where I need to be. And that's a that's a cool place to be. It's it's it's nice to see you taking time like that because, I mean, you got so much going on, man. Like, it's it's just it's just kinda cool. One of the things that I was looking at, I would listen to a couple of your podcasts, and I've been kinda going back over stuff. And I've I've watched you from a long time. I mean, I don't know how long you've been on TV, but I can as long as I can remember, I've been watching you on on TV, and it's a cool story. And I don't wanna go too far into your story because you told it so many different times, but you're basically discovered at a turkey calling championship, and, and then that leads to all this other stuff. You you know, on your bio, it says, you know, you won this turkey calling championship. You met Bill Jordan, and then you're you're next thing you know, you're running cameras for all these different shows, and you're doing all this stuff. So what what that led me to kinda ask because we talk about, like, how somebody can be a fishing guide, how somebody can be a hunting guide. And I talked to icons like a Bill Dance or a Roland Martin or somebody like that about their story and how they were how they kinda came up and the challenges they had and stuff like that. And I I kinda wanted to to ask you about that because one of the things that you talk about a lot is you're you're just a country kid from from Booger Bottom. Like, I know that's not what you are. I mean, you're a lot more than that, but you you I mean, it says right on your website, the man from Booger Bottom. And Yeah. But there had to be a day where you were the kid from from Booger Bottom that hadn't seen a lot, and now you're going out and you're you're you're a star, dude. You are the you are the biggest star in the hunting industry, in my opinion, and I went to some of those shows where there was a line out the door to see you. And I'm just like, how was that for for a kid from booger bottom to all of a sudden have that? And I don't know when in your career it it exploded like that, but what was that like for you? Did you ever struggle with that?

18:36 · Staying Humble When Fame Took Off

Michael Waddell: I did in some areas. I did. I I think overall, the world is humbled. You know, when when things really took off, Tom, it you know how you you hear somebody sometimes people say, oh, man. That dude went and got famous, become a jerk. You know? And I'm like, for me, I think it was a 100% the exact opposite. I was so humbled by it. And and as you talk about Booger bottoms, like, it's funny because, you know, that that is. You know, a lot of times people see that as like, oh, man. That that's that's just marketing. However, that is where I came from. But at this point, you know, obviously my family and my dad and a lot of my family still live in Booger Bottom. And of course, that's where I learned to hunt and fish. That's where I learned about life. Obviously, it's where you, you know, you go parking in high school and you're first trying to figure out if you got four wheel drive on a truck. You know, that's where you, you know, go find a, you know, a six pack of Natty Lights or a bottle of Boone's Farm Wine back in the day. It was so many things. It was where you, you know, heard a turkey gobble from the side of the road or a little creek that you went fishing in and a little pond that you would slip in to go try to catch bass or, you know, a mess of bluegill. And so so with that, for me, I think what booger bottom and and the the country boy thing means so much to me, it always, no matter where I'm at, it reminds me of where I'm at. Because I think one of the most important things about when you get into if you want to call it showbiz I mean, I don't consider outdoor hunting and fishing showbiz, but when you have people that's lined up that do want to meet you, that do want to shake your hand, possibly get you to sign a hat or show you a a fish or a deer or a turkey or an elk or show you trail cam pictures. Man, that is an ultimate, ultimate, you have to show ultimate respect to that because I too had heroes. And and I remember being very nervous of meeting some of these people because I didn't know if they were gonna be what I expected them to be, if they were gonna be, you know, a a jerk. And so what happened with me, Tom, I think deep down, I'm pretty philosophical. I didn't know that until I've gotten a little older. But even then, I noticed that the hunting industry and even the fishing industry was kind of odd to where when the cameras are off, I always saw a different side of people that I seem to like more. And then I'll then at times I saw sides of people that I liked a lot less. And so as a kid, and I got a chance to be thrown into this literally at 17, 18 years of age, guiding and taking people hunting and going to these big, you know, promotions with Bill Jordan back in the day and learning about business and stuff. I I remember, even being more proud of kind of where I come from. And I quickly become very confident about my ability, at least, on the hunting and, you know, fishing side of things because I realized that, wow, my dad and where I grew up, we are we are legit. We understand, you know, every tree out there. We understand firewood. We understand how to grow the best tomatoes. We understand how to treat turkeys at a pretty high level. We understand, you know, how to kinda figure out how to get on a deer for food and maybe try to kill a big mature Georgia, you know, southern buck. And so I started realizing that I started gaining my confidence and my ability as a as a hunter, but I hadn't yet crossed that barrier of being proud of being the guy that mispronounced words, being a guy that was a solid D student that, you know, never has figured out what chemistry is and calculus. And and I struggled, and I realized that I wasn't a good student. I realized that I hadn't been to any colleges except for a freaking party. And and, I had never been to school. So I was very kind of, like, you know, intimidated around these big meetings, and I felt like the dumb redneck. So somewhere in that, Tom, you know, like I said, I think with the question you ask is very, very solid and philosophical in the fact that for me, I was very insecure at first about the booger bottom, about being the dumb redneck. And so I think what I did is I just kind of started realizing and gaining more confidence that I was I was decently smart, when it come to gut instinct. I wasn't. I didn't know what EBITDA was in business. I didn't know, you know, what margins meant. And I didn't understand that you could sell $2,000,000 worth of product and still lose a million. I didn't understand all these things. I didn't understand it. When you walked into a meeting at Walmart, you might only have ten minutes to present for your partners. I was just kind of this ultimate bullshitter of high fiving and ready to talk about family, friends, and where a turkey was gobbling. So I was at first kind of quiet and reserved and didn't want to open my mouth because I'd have probably said something dumb, in my opinion. You know, when everybody else is saying, what a nice harvest, I was saying, man, I just gave him a parking ticket. He fell over here dead. He's on the road to glory. Well, I wasn't trying to come up with these things. These are just the way I acted with my best friends and my buddies and my cousins as we hunted. And so I started realizing that on these shows and these TV shows and even these seminars, that really all I had to do was be myself because myself was 98% of the audience. So I think, for me, it made me more humble to realize that it's not even me. This is our world. This is these people. These are my brothers. These are my sisters. And so when I started finally coming to my heart and soul that it wasn't a Michael Whittell thing, that this was a cultural thing, then I think I ultimately got very proud and I've become very careful. But I also become very quick to fight for the culture that meant so much to you and I. So I think that's the synopsis of me and the kid from Booger Bottom. And you're right, I think I'm now proudly can be the dumb redneck in the room. But in reality, I can take in a lot more at these meetings in different places than people realize. But I can sit back and I can speak, and based on the situation, I can kind of let people kind of show their cards, and then my card's already been shown because everything about my life is pretty much documented. Yeah. And, so it becomes, it becomes a, I feel like an asset to myself, but it also becomes an asset to those men and women that talk and act like you and I, that have families. But at the same time, we understand, you know, you know, the fishing and hunting aspect. And it becomes a I don't know, it made me very proud, I think. It humbled me and made me very proud of where I came from. And that's why I still always remind myself that I'm from Booger Bottom. And last but not least, it reminds me every day of the American dream. If I can make a solid living, inevitably, you know, talking about hunting and fishing, talking about, you know, the way we feel about culture and the way we feel about, in some cases, politics, which I don't really like politics, but it reminds me, if I can do that and not have a college education, barely graduate high school, you know, grew up playing sports, you know, baseball, football, you know, chasing girls. The all American story that typically should have turned into me, you know, working construction or hanging sheetrock, which I would have been very proud to do. But if I can turn something that's a passion that I've become decent at and make it a solid livelihood, then that's the true American dream. And you don't hear about that in Turkmenistan. You don't hear about that even in, really, France at a high level. And so it makes me proud of America. It makes me proud. But in one way, it also makes me a little less, you know, sympathize with these people who cry victim because I know that somebody, everybody's great at something. You just got to work hard. And again, getting back to this family thing, you know what? You do sacrifice a lot in those early years because you are just completely focused. You don't have all this worried about what's going on Saturday and Sunday. Every day is just another day to move the needle for something or somebody. And inevitably, if you're doing the right thing for somebody else in an industry, it usually circles back around to you. And so, so that's my that's my story of really just kinda how I feel about how I got started. It's just been an extremely good blessing.

26:49 · Turkey Calling and the Realtree Break

Tom Rowland: It is it is an American dream. I mean, really, like, I mean, you you're you're you're just going to these turkey calling championships, and and and I saw where your dad was taking you around to all these different ones. And Yeah. And then there is this discovery, almost like in music. Like, somebody saw you and says, that kid's got something right there, and let's see what we can do with him. But there's something on your side that you have to do where these opportunities present themselves to you. And, I mean, like, it's it's like, you know, you hear about this with music or or your story or whatever, and people ask, he just met the right person at the right time, but it's more than that because you have to actually jump on these opportunities. Hey. You wanna run camera for so and so? Yes. I don't know anything about running camera. You know? I I don't know what your what your situation was with that, but what I know is that it's way more than luck, and it's way more than than just being in the right place at the right time. There might be that one spark of that, but then you've got to take advantage of all these opportunities, and then you have to create new opportunities. And and did you ever have some some doubts about that? Like, man, they're asking me to go on a sheep hunt. I I don't never been out there. I don't know what I'm doing, but I'm going. You know?

Michael Waddell: Yeah. I mean, I did. I I think I think most of the hunting stuff, I had pretty solid security, and feeling like I could figure out a way to to find success. Like, you know, growing up in Georgia chasing these old hard headed turkeys just you know, you you growing up in Tennessee right there. Mhmm. Obviously, most of our turkeys down south, all of them have judged the great American redneck yepaw before before April 30, you know? So so obviously, I felt like, you know, some of the things matched up to to what I felt comfortable hunting. But, yeah, I was very I was very intimidated. I think the biggest thing I was intimidated, Tom, was not as much the ability, say, to go on a sheep hunt, or maybe what it would be like to go to Africa and hunt a cape buffalo with a bow. I felt pretty confident. I think it gets back to the early stage. I was insecure about who I was. I caught myself wanting to clean up and take away, you know, whether it was a Southern accent or the slang words or acting like this crazy old goofy man child that I really was. I caught I caught myself, and, you know, you as part of that too on those early ESPN. And then then, obviously, at the time when I started working real true, we were on TNN. And TNN, you know, people forget that was a huge

29:26 · Early Outdoor TV and $100,000 Cameras

Tom Rowland: network with the biggest, Yeah. That was the biggest ever. That was my introduction to television. I was on Shaw Grigsby's show. He was on we had one more cast on TNN, and that was the first television show I was ever on. And, man, I mean, when I say that the phone didn't stop ringing for months Yeah. It didn't. I mean, it was amazing. There were millions of people watching.

Michael Waddell: And One episode. Yeah.

Tom Rowland: Like I said, we we It doesn't exist today.

Michael Waddell: You know, it's all about, you know, a cumulative watch now. But back then, you know, I remember Realtor Outdoors and Shaw's show. I think Hank Parker had some stuff. Moss Yoke had Hunt the Country. Mark Sosie, I think. He was more on ESPN. But anyway, I remember like after a NASCAR race, Realtor Outdoors would come off, and we would have millions. I mean, like I remember five or 6,000,000 people be watching one episode at once. And that was huge in the outdoor space. And so I remember thinking and having this, you know, top of mind that, oh my god. First of all, I'm I'm editing and producing. Now go back to that. I didn't know anything about TV. I I was just just I think I I remember the AB role editor, the editing, and and having these big beta cams and and,

Tom Rowland: I remember thinking like, man.

Michael Waddell: Yeah. Like, you wouldn't hold that thing open with the

Tom Rowland: you wouldn't hold the door open with that thing today.

Michael Waddell: It cost a $100,000. I know you're in I know you're in the fitness, Tom. Look. If if we're all camera guys back in, you know, between, let's say, '88 Yeah. And '90 in 2000, we were all in shape.

Tom Rowland: If we were running a camera 60 pound camera on your shoulder.

Michael Waddell: Oh, dude.

Tom Rowland: I mean, you you

Michael Waddell: look freaking real.

Tom Rowland: Yes. And

Michael Waddell: then you had those big Benton or Sachtler Sticks. You know, that those things wore weighed 40 pounds each, I bet. And and then those big bricks. So, anyway, with that said, I didn't know how to run all this stuff. And then to find out that this camera setup cost as much or more than my house.

Tom Rowland: Yes.

Michael Waddell: And so and then I'm editing this stuff. So I think I was, at that beginning part of that, my insecurity came from, wait a minute, man. I would like to spin it to more booger bottom. You know what I mean? I wanted to spin it to where not spin it, but I felt like that you know, the outdoor space was missing some of the biggest entertaining characters. You know, like I said, you grew up guiding all these fishermen. And then you meet a lot of these guides. Or are these just people that that live in the woods or live on the water? And, dude, they are characters, and the people that come hunting are characters. They're on vacation. They're crazy guys from the Northeast, New York, Pennsylvania, crazy old southern rednecks from South Alabama. And so you sit around them guys, and you never quit laughing. There's jokes out the wazoo. And so I thought, man, this is this is kinda what the industry is trying to cover up. And I'm thinking, I wanna expose it because it it was to me, it was Duck Dynasty before Duck Dynasty. And so, anyway, I think I was insecure about that. But once I found that, wait a minute, we're missing the best elements of it, I I think that's where it it I was it came clean for me, and I was real insecure. I remember the first seminar I did. Like, man, what do I talk about? I mean, or how do I talk? I remember writing everything down on this paper, trying to bullet point out how to give this seminar. And I remember completely just trying to go off this outline and it completely, I was failing so bad, Tom. I remember thinking, okay. I just gotta go back to Bullshitters mall bullshitters ball role. You know? They're just just having fun and bullcrapping my way through it and cutting a few jokes. And then quickly, people started laughing. And, you know, and I remember early on saying, you know, people ask me a question about, you know, what's this, this, and what's the best brace height on a bow, and what's the mechanics of this? I'm like, man, I don't have a clue. You know? And they're looking at me like I'm supposed to be this professional. And I'm like, man, I don't know. And I remember immediately those type of things are where I started grabbing my security. But I was insecure, not as much to hunt. I was insecure, I think, representing - Yeah. -what I considered this hunting space. - Yeah. -And then I started realizing that, man, I I can do this. It's not because it's anything special in me. It's because I am the space. Right. If that makes sense.

33:28 · When Weakness Becomes Strength

Tom Rowland: Yeah. Yeah. No. And it worked, man. It's funny because one of the things that I've talked about a number of times is that the that if you stay with something long enough, the thing that you think is your biggest weakness will turn out to be your greatest strength. And and, like, your story is very similar to that. Like, you you're you're getting in, you're thinking, oh, man. I'm just this kid from Booger Bottom. I don't know. But then Yeah. Once you once you get enough experience to realize all the things that you just told me, like, that's your greatest strength that somebody that's not from there, somebody that doesn't have that could net they would always be perceived as fake. They would always be perceived as as a poser or whatever, that that's not who that person really is, and that turns out to be the greatest strength that that you had. Of course, you got lots of other strengths. I mean, you you played played down, like, you know, you you did you barely graduated high school, but, man, I mean, you're you're just even in just what you're saying, like, you jumped at the chance to to edit. You know how to edit, but you somebody gave you the opportunity, and that's what I'm getting at is, like, is, like, this road to success. Maybe there's some opportunities there, but you actually have to take advantage of those opportunities and get yourself in a position to where you're very uncomfortable. I'm sure. I know I did.

Michael Waddell: Yes.

Tom Rowland: Of of somebody gives you a chance, and you're like, man, but I don't know anything. And it would have been real easy just to say, nah, man. I'm a be I'm a be hunting this Saturday. I don't think I can I don't think I can help you out at that show? I'm I'm a be out here. And that opportunity goes, and somebody else takes it and and takes off.

Michael Waddell: Somebody will step up to the plate. And and and, Tom, you're what you're saying is so spot on because you're exactly right. And one reason I was excited to come on your podcast is because we do have a similar story. And, you know, coming from the South, you know, obviously you getting out West and starting to guide. And even guiding. Like, my first job at Realtor was guiding. People don't realize. Everybody said, Man, be an outbidder, be a guide, or be a fishing guy. The ultimate responsibility of that, especially if you're competitive, is, man, it will completely wash you mentally. You'll be so exhausted before you even physically get to it because you've got to think about everything. And if you take pride in something, which I certainly do, I know you do, you've got to think about, okay, man, you you you feel like you're confident. You feel like you can catch them. You feel like you can kill them or whatever it is. And all of a sudden, you got somebody that pays you money and says put me on them. Right. They sit back, crack open a Gatorade. Now you gotta think about safety. Where's you know, man, am I gonna be able to even get bait fish to freaking go fishing? You know, where are they gonna be? And then all of a sudden, is my motor is my equipment running right? You know, can I get out here? Does everybody have their license? Man, that's my wife. We did renew my guy's license. I mean Right. So all these things, now you still got to have success. And guess what? You might be on a hot spot, then you get out there. The guys are catching them. They're missing every other fish or, you know, or or said nothing wrong. And then they're like, well, put me on some more. And like, no. That was the pocket. That was it. You were supposed to be that was your half a day, homie. Can't beat us over. And I and so so that part of it alone, you can intimidate yourself out of even starting. And I will say, and if there's anybody that listens to this, man, you got to put your pride and your ego into into your heart and soul. Because a lot of times on the outside, we come across like, oh, man. I could catch them. I could kill them. But then you give them the chance. Are you given the chance to walk in and people say, well, go tell your story. Stand up in front of this crowd and tell your story how you feel about outdoors. And they're like, no, man. I don't want none of that. Well, they'll get around the cooler and complain and holler and spit and talk about this. They'll get on social media and tell you everything that they know about public hunting or, yeah, it must must be easy catching them bass in that pond. Go here and catch well, they won't do nothing if they're given a chance. Give them the opportunity. A lot of times, they lock up and freeze up because ultimately, people are afraid of failure. And so for me, failure has always been a driving the biggest driver for me because I don't wanna fail. If somebody wants me to take them turkey hunting, I don't consider turkey hunting. I consider my job is to make sure this guy kills a turkey or at least an opportunity. Because if I don't get that, I feel like I failed. Inevitably, that's not the case. It is about the day and the fun and the adventure and getting on a turkey hunt. I mean,

37:47 · Filming Hunts Is Not a Nature Tour

Tom Rowland: like you and and me and a lot of people that make a living at this, they realize that this isn't a nature tour. Like, a lot of people just take you on a nature tour. Yeah. We're going hunting hunting. You know, if you kill something, that's gonna be a a a plus. No. You're expecting to kill something. You're expecting to catch something. You're expecting anybody can go out there and catch them themselves. Anybody can go out there and and kill the turkey himself, but it's when you got somebody that can barely walk, and you have to now think about, man, if it was me, I'd just go right over here, but we can't do that today. So Yeah. How are we gonna do this? And there's this whole creative thinking, and then you take guiding into being, like, an art form. Like, it really does become that way. Like, you become so creative, and then you become so much better at the activity, whether that's turkey hunting, elk hunting, tarpon fishing, bone fishing, whatever it is. Now you have somebody that has limited skill compared to you. Maybe they're okay, but let's let's say you can cast a 100 feet with a fly rod, and this guy gets on your boat, and he can cast 30.

Michael Waddell: Yeah.

Tom Rowland: Well, you still gotta you still gotta get him a fish. And now Yes. It's like, I see that say the same thing, and I'm sure you do too with as it comes to filming these things because you're like, okay. It's gonna be it's gonna be great. I've got these turkeys wired, and the guy says, well, we can't shoot into the sun. What do you we they're gonna come this way? No. They can't come this way. It's gonna be terrible. We're gonna I won't even be able to frame the shot right. You're like Yeah. Buddy,

Michael Waddell: what do

Tom Rowland: you I mean, we've had them say that to we've had our camera people say that, and and we're like, so you want me to pull around this school of fish and try to catch one the other way? Like, this usually lasts, like, two seconds. You know what I mean? Like, this lasts two seconds, and now I have to okay. I guess we're gonna try to do that, and somehow, it works sometimes.

Michael Waddell: And you almost learn from it.

Tom Rowland: Like, you

Michael Waddell: never do this, and you're like, wait a minute. I've been overthinking this. Yeah. Yeah. You learn. Times in the wild line stuff. God.

Tom Rowland: I know. But you learn so much, and it makes you it makes you so much better. It's, it's fun. It does.

40:00 · Go Get After It

Michael Waddell: I I do think it does. I mean, it does because you're you're putting these challenges. And matter of fact, you know, Tom, and I won't, you know, get your take on this, but, I tell you something else I learned too about the outdoor space and doing what I've done. You know, I you know, like I said, I didn't go to college. And and I remember my dad was one of the only people that was a 100% far when I was 17, 18. Like, alright. You ain't going to school. You know? Well, if you're gonna be helping out Bill Jordan guiding, well, ride that out and get after it. That's a pretty cool opportunity. But my dad was a very big avid outdoors manager. He he loved Realtree and the Mossy Oak, and he was a fan of a lot of these companies I was having a chance to work with early on. But overall, I would say my family, which is all country as a chicken coop, they was discouraging of it. They were like, well, Michael, you can't make a living hunting. This is ridiculous. This you done gone crazy. Man, I had went to heating and air school, so I had gotten a degree in air conditioning technology. And I had just gotten a job as well just out of high school, being a serviceman, like a serviceman for heating and air and stalling air conditioners. A lot of people don't realize that. Well, my grandmom and my uncle were devastated. Like, you got a van. You got a suit with your name on it. I know, but I don't I'm not fulfilled. I'm I'm completely fine. I'll do this the rest of my life, but I'm also 17, 18, 19 years of age. I think I should try this. I'm sitting here trying to talk adults who love me into pushing them to realize that I think I should try this opportunity. No different than the kid who wants to go to Nashville to be a singer. Right.

Tom Rowland: Or

Michael Waddell: the or the kid like you that that went from Chattanooga said, I think I'm gonna start guiding fish out west. You know, you ain't fish those rivers out west outside of just Rob. Yeah. Never. But like, now I'm gonna go out here and start guiding. Right. Right. Okay. And so, so I was kind of in the same boat. And so I realize now that I look back and it saddens me, and that's one reason I'm glad we're talking about this stuff. If there's a man or woman listening or watching this podcast and you've always wanted to do something, go for it. But go for it with everything in you and have the confidence that you can be great in it. Because the reason I say that, I started realizing that a lot of my friends and even my family, they are just living this slow, conservative, safe route to death. And that's pretty bold of me to say that. But it it it they're not taking any chances. And I have learned that you do fail a lot. But if you keep getting back up and swinging, you succeed. And so with this in America, there's so many ways. I mean, there's got to be a Jay Z. There's got to be a Beyonce. There's got to be a Tom Rowland. There's got to be a Michael Jordan. There's got to be a Chuck Adams. There's got to be a Dale Earnhardt. Who in some of these areas that we have a chance to play in could think that they would be a livelihood? I'm not saying that's easy, but it's not wrong for Americans or anybody or human beings to go after being into this 10% or 20%. And I think what happens is most of the people who love us the most, I catch myself as a parent now doing it, we try to push into this safe zone of this 90% of making a livelihood, you know, working at a high rise or being in the agency rather than to push to own the agency. And so in a deep way, I think that's the problem with America. Now we're getting to the point where people don't even want to work. They just want to stay at home and just get something given to them. And so, I think the American dream is still alive. But it's only alive if you dream and you have the balls. I know that, I guess I can say it on this podcast, to just go get after it. To go get after it. And if you fail, you can still jump back into that 80 percentile.

Tom Rowland: Well, you can. You can. But you're crazy to think that you're gonna do anything, whether you're living the most conservative, slow walk to death like you like you said. I might have said it a little differently, but whether you're doing that or whether you're trying to be a the next big country music star or the next Michael Waddell, whatever it is, you're gonna fail. You're gonna fail conservatively or you're gonna fail swinging for the fence. It's how you act how you react to that failure. And whether you learn from those mistakes and move on or whether you Yes. Fail and go, ma'am, well, that wasn't for me anyway, and go back. Like, that's the difference. And, like, we talk about these things on this podcast all the time because I'm so fascinated with with these moments in people's career, whether that's, like like I said, Bill Dance or Roland Martin or Jimmy Houston. All of them have had this to where they get to this point in their career, and I know I did, to where it's like, do I really go for it here, or do I just kinda not? You know? And and it's like it would be easy to not do it, and, I mean, it would be easy to do it, but it would be easier not to do it. And then you you have this burn the boat moment to where you just jump, and you just say

Michael Waddell: Yes.

Tom Rowland: Man, I'm gonna do this, and if I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna be the best at it that I can possibly be. And if I fail, I'm gonna have no regrets. And I think that living that way is powerful, and I can tell that you've done that in your career. And that's one of the reasons why I was so excited to talk to you because because you've obviously done that, and I'm try I was trying to get to that moment of, like, you know, like you said, you have a fear of failure, but there's also such thing as a fear of success where all your friends are like, oh, Hollywood. Look who's here. You know? And man, that that kills people, man. That kills people. It sucks the motivation right out of them. And they're like, man, I thought I thought this big break, I thought I won this big tournament, and that was gonna be great, but all my friends are like, they don't wanna be around me anymore. And and coming to grips with that yeah. Coming to grips with that and moving forward and past that, that's hard. That really is, man. It's hard.

Michael Waddell: You you you speak in my story now because that that

Tom Rowland: Sounds like we got similar really similar story, man. Really.

Michael Waddell: It's funny. And and

Tom Rowland: I just wish I had made it as big as Michael Waddell. No, man. You have.

Michael Waddell: That's like, I can't wait to talk about some of the things. I mean, even the Waypoint. I mean, my god. I was so I'm so, proud of of what y'all are doing and and where this thing can go. I mean, I know we still gotta talk about that, but I but as you're saying, did you find this, Tom, and and it's it's ironic, you're talking about people that I admire, like the Bill Dance, the Roland Martins. And, I mean, you don't even realize that all those guys and I talk about people in the hunting industry, and I've become friends with a lot of people, you know, you know, without having a name drop. But like the Blake Shelton's and like the, you know, Red Akins and all these guys. Man, we've been friends a long time. And I can't tell you, they they've all been in a place in their career where it was kind of over. Or or or, you know, call it depression. That that's kind of a big kinda maybe maybe not fair to say that. But you get into a place to where I'm going for it. I'm either gonna sink or I'm gonna swim. And it seems like, Tom, is that where it seemed like always something turned for you?

Tom Rowland: It seems like it. I mean, it doesn't happen right away. It's not like you say, I'm going for it, and then tomorrow, you're like, I sure am glad I did. No. It's like Yeah. A couple years from there. You know, you always hear the the the expression, he's a overnight success twenty years in the making. And that's that's how it happens. You know? It's like it's like all of a sudden people are like, where'd this guy come from? Man, wow. And then you dig into a little bit, and it's like, oh, well, he's been doing this for thirty years. Like, you know, whether it's the big country star or the rock and roll star or the whatever, a lot of them, like, they've been doing this for a long time. They've been like, there's a book I like called Chop Wood, Carry Water, and that's what it's about. It's like every day, you chop wood, you carry water, you do the basics, and you keep going. No matter what, you keep going and keep trying and keep going. And sooner or later, things are gonna start happening, but it does seem like you can get to a point to where you decide, I think that's too risky or or or I'm I'm just that's just not for me. And and it is that moment that is either the it's gonna take you where you wanna go or or or not. Your choice. Yeah. Sometimes it's sometimes hey. Sometimes it's a good choice to go back the other way for some people. But

Michael Waddell: I agree.

Tom Rowland: Not if that's what not if you got a burning desire in your heart to make it as a professional hunter like you or a professional fisherman like me. It's like you you gotta go.

Michael Waddell: And it's it's not easy. And and like I said, sometimes you, you know, sometimes you you definitely it's, you know, I'm always talking sports analogies because I understand sports, and and I always grew up playing it. And obviously, these sports give you a certain mental and physical toughness that help you kind of make some of this stuff easy when it comes to business and figuring out how to make decisions. But, you know, sometimes you do. You swing for a single. You know that, man, if I can get enough singles, like like you said, the chop would carry water. And then there's times to where, like, look, it's time. I'm waiting for the fastball down the middle and hell with it. I'm gonna freaking hit it up into the upper deck. And and it's funny because even looking back on my career, you know, there was two pivotal times that I remember, Tom, and I never really even said this, I was completely ready to be done with it all. And from a public standpoint, people might have thought that, man, Waddell's rocking, man. He's at the top of his game. But one was coming off Realtree road trips, you know, coming off of full time employment at Realtree, and trying to sort this out and kind of somewhat figure out my path. And Realtree didn't know what to do and didn't know how to really reward me. And they didn't know how to let me take advantage of some of these opportunities. So I was in the process of kind of having to leave. But I remember being so depressed and kind of disgusted. I was going through a really tough time. I wasn't seeing my kids. I was killing everything. I I was not making any money. You know, I was not making good money because I was just working as a full time guy. But I was working every weekend at every Bass Pro Shops, every Cabela's, every Gander Mountain, every store out there. I was going to promotions for, you know, Outdoor Channel. I was going promotions, you know, for all these companies. And and really, at the end of it, all I had was some, you know, new boots and a new bow and, and no money. And my marriage had failed, and my kids are like and your name is Deddy. And I remember thinking, bullshit. I'm I'm done. I'm over I'm over the I'm either gonna figure out a way to handle some of these situations. And at that time, I would say selfishly, I was thinking, I'm either gonna make some money at this, or I'm I'm going back and going to work in construction with my dad. So I was like, I'm going for it. I'm going to go big hard. And if it don't make it, then I'm completely fine, and I can say that my life's been good. And then soon after I did that, quickly, man, we found great success, both financially and being independent. And then, I went through some tough business times, but then soon after that I go through a very bad divorce. And I remember once again, I was in a place in my life, you know, personally, as it, you know, I was thinking, Nope, I'm going to make these changes in my life, and it's going to take me into where I need to be. And if it don't, and I have to leave this behind, I will. And holy cow, it turned into something great. And so with that, I've just learned that that is part of being a man or a woman. And you just learned that You can let the fear of failure drive you, but you also can learn to live with failure knowing that you at least did try. And I think the biggest nightmare I would have if I look back, my biggest regret would be I didn't change anything and I didn't go for anything. That would be more depressing than to fail than to not have at least tried to get up to the plate, for sure.

51:51 · The Fear of Living With Regret

Tom Rowland: I'm with you. I'm with you a 100%. Like, the that that that fear there's a fear for me of of of living with regret these days. And as I get a little bit older too, I realize I see it with people. They're like, man, I could've done something like that. You think, man, that would be that would be a rough way to wake up every morning, like, knowing that you could've, but you didn't. And then live it for the rest of your life, like, just just saying that all the time, like, I could have done that. Like, like in Napoleon Dynamite, like, man, if the coach had put me in there out of throwing that football over that mountain, you know, we'd have won the state for sure. You know, like like, that guy, he's living with that all the time, and and that's the advice that I give to people too because for whatever reason, I guess, people I'm sure a lot of people ask you the advice too. Like, how did you do this? What did what what would you tell me to do? And it's like, man, just go for it. Go for it.

Michael Waddell: Just go for it.

Tom Rowland: Especially if you're young, man. If you're young, what's the worst that's gonna happen? You decide, I it's not for me or you decide, well, I thought it was gonna be a little bit better or whatever. But I know I do know people that came to the Florida Keys, and they tried guiding for a while, and they might have guided for four or five years, and then they leave. Yeah. And they're fine with it. They're leaving on their own terms. They've they decided that, you know what? This was great. I went for it. I I competed with what I see as the best fishing guides on the planet, and I was one of them, and I did this.

Michael Waddell: Yep.

Tom Rowland: And now I'm gonna go back, and I'm a work with my dad, and I wanna be happy with it. Or I'm gonna go back, and I'm gonna do this. Or I'm gonna go set up my business over here because I don't wanna be that guy that's, you know Yeah. 60 and and and having a hard time right now because they didn't save any money, and they just are guiding on the day to day. And I'm sure you see that in the hunting industry too. It's like, you know, there needs to be kind of a plan here of what happens when your body starts to fail you because, like you say, it's like being a professional athlete, very much so. I mean, you're you are active in moving, and if you can't move, it's gonna be tough. I mean, not not impossible. I know a I know a great fishing guy that's in a wheelchair. He's a he's a great fishing guy, man. He, he he does a great and he he doesn't move very well, but he's figured out a way to to do it. So I don't know. It just seems like living with regret, that's the that's the fear that I haven't the most of, I think, is just knowing that it was there for you, but just didn't do it, man. You just

54:30 · Bone Collector Hats and His Dad's Tough Love

Michael Waddell: And I'm the same way, and I and I see that. And I think even when I have a chance to go to these hunting shows and, you know, these fishing and hunting expos, man, I always man, I'm I just about man hug every dude that comes by and and and every every woman because I I get a lot of the stories, and and I meet people that that, I mean, Tom, you know, you understand. Some of these guys are amazing, insane, uncanny ability to maybe catch fish, or they got something dialed in. Maybe it's over on Lake Eufaul they live close to, or maybe it's the turkeys in this public ground in Alabama, and they just

Tom Rowland: are

Michael Waddell: freaking Mhmm. I mean, unbelievable. But I can talk to them just in five or ten minutes, and you can feel this regret. And it there's this fine line between me that they love and hate. Like, they they love that that I'm kinda them, and I'm doing this. But then, like, yeah. I bet you making a bunch of money, man. What so and so paid you? How many bows you getting? And you can tell that they hate that part of it, but they admire that part of it. But what they're really saying is they're kinda aggravated because what they love me about is they really see us as equals. They don't see me as ahead of them or I'm a better hunter or a fisherman. They they see is like, damn it. What the hell you did it? I'm still over here trying to figure out how to scrap up a living at this this wood mill. There's nothing wrong with that. Nothing.

Tom Rowland: But you

Michael Waddell: can feel this regret. And so for me, man, I hug them dudes like freaking my young. Like, hey, bro. It ain't too late. You're still the best in your area. You represent. And and I don't know how many bone collector hats I've given away. Like, you you you part of my family and because there is no difference between me and you. The only difference is here it is. You're now 57 years old, and you didn't go for it because you were but we're taught not to go for it. Yes. I mean, we we are. And so it's not their fault or it's not and luckily, you know, you know, like your parents, maybe maybe they encourage you. I don't know that part of your story. Did they encourage or discourage? But, you know, my dad was pretty encouraging. But you know what was encouraging about my dad? My dad didn't care truly. He he was gonna be proud of me, but what he made sure I knew that when I got out of high school, if you ain't gonna go to school, but you ain't staying here.

Tom Rowland: Right.

Michael Waddell: You know? And if you and if you stay here, holy cow. I don't know I don't know that I have ever had worked any harder building a railroad than staying if I'd lived with my dad after high school because I can tell you right now, I would have weed eat it. I would have went to work with him and just I don't know if he'd have paid me because I'd had to pay for rent.

Tom Rowland: Right.

Michael Waddell: But he was hard. And he was like, I don't give a damn what you do. But you're going to work. You're getting out of here. I've raised you for eighteen years, and you've ate you eat a lot of biscuits, boy. And and you eat a lot of groceries. I'm ready for you to be out of here and come back to my house.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. You know

Michael Waddell: what? And when you get 21, you bring over three or four beers for me and you, and and you bring your own steak.

Tom Rowland: I mean,

Michael Waddell: that was and so, inevitably, I knew that I was gonna have to do something. It didn't I could have been $10.15, $20,000 a year living in a trailer, and my dad would have been just as proud and happy.

Tom Rowland: Sure.

Michael Waddell: But it it and so so I think that in a weird way, that was the encouragement that my dad gave me. He's like, I don't care what you do, but get out. You know? Hey. This this ain't hey. You know?

Tom Rowland: Yeah. Well, my dad gave me my

Michael Waddell: dad deserve nothing.

Tom Rowland: He gave me some similar advice, but his his advice was more like, I'd never met a fishing guide. I don't know that that's a way that you can make a living, but, obviously, you you have figured out you've met some people, and that's a way to do it. So if you're gonna do this, you're gonna need to be really good at it. Like, you give it everything you got. But and and, you know, he he was always very supportive. You know, to his credit, he was a little bit kinda wary of the whole thing. Like, I don't know, man. It seems too good to be true. Like, you're just out there fishing. I'm like, dad, come out here and see what I do. And so we go out there,

Michael Waddell: and we get

Tom Rowland: up real early in the morning, and I'd get that boat ready, and we'd go all day floating down the stream, and and he he would be like, now okay. I see. I see. I see what you're doing. Like, this is this is pretty nice. And then he'd send his friends out there, and his his friends would pay me, like, as a as a guy. And they come back you won't believe what he's doing out there. It's just so awesome. It's the most beautiful place I've ever been in my life, and we had the best time. And you know what? He's really good at that. Like, what he's doing, he's really good at it. So, I mean, you hear that a few times, and then all of a sudden, it's like, hey. You're old enough to make your own decisions. But for me, like That's awesome.

Michael Waddell: And I don't

Tom Rowland: know if it was the same way for you. Sounds like you had some other opportunities, but, I mean, I did go to a a good school, but I was probably bottom of the class. Bottom of the class for sure. And, I just couldn't imagine myself working I I don't know what I would be doing if I hadn't found fishing. I really don't because nothing was intriguing to me. Nothing was exciting to me. So a lot of people are like, man, you you you, you know, you you did you made it or whatever. It's like, well, I didn't really have a choice because I wasn't gonna be working in an office. So it was, like, either fishing or, like, some sort of manual labor, which is fine. I mean, I would have been fine with it. My dad kept doing he that's what he would say when I was a kid. He's like, listen. If you don't make a a a b on that test, you're gonna be digging ditches. And I was like, man, I I think I might like digging ditches. I kinda like it. I mean, I'm good with a shovel, and and I would probably be I would probably be a really good employee. I don't really see what's wrong with digging ditches. And, it's better than sitting in that classroom. That's what I was thinking. But, anyway, he my dad was very, very, very supportive. It was it was it was funny. So we We gotta be brothers.

1:00:34 · The Undertaker and Staying in Character

Michael Waddell: We gotta be brothers. It seems

Tom Rowland: like it. I mean, it really does. It seems like it. We we certainly need to go fishing or hunting together. I'd love For sure. So I have some, I have some questions for you as we kinda draw to a draw to a close because I know you're a busy guy. You don't want you you don't take, too much I don't wanna take too much of your time, but I do wanna compliment you on one thing. I listened to your podcast, a couple of them. And, dude, you're you're really good with the podcast. And the reason I say that is because you're obviously a good conversationalist, and that probably comes from being at all these sports shows and being a a hunting guide and just you you just carry on a good conversation. You're you you have a light humor, and you're you're just a fun guy to be around. But you you bring that out on the podcast, and your podcast with The Undertaker was really good because he's, you know, like, you can't be from Chad Newton not know who The Undertaker is either. Right. You can't say, can't be from Booker bomb, not know who The Undertaker is. So, you know, we had Georgia championship wrestling here, and and and there was a a a place, the the Memorial Auditorium. And every wrestler you ever heard of came through the Memorial Auditorium. Now I did not necessarily go to the Memorial Auditorium and sit ringside, but that was on every Saturday morning. And I watched professional wrestling, and you'd see everybody come through there. And the Undertaker was always an interesting guy, and now he's retired. And he's been going on a lot of these other podcasts. And so when I see him, I'm like, oh, cool. Like, I'll listen to that, and I listen to him on Joe Rogan. And I listen to him somewhere else too, and I'm interested in these stories because I think being a a rodeo cowboy, a professional wrestler, and maybe a professional bass fisherman. Those gotta be, like, three of the toughest ways to make a living that there are. I mean, you're just getting the crap beat out of you in all three of those those sports call. You you say what you want about professional wrestling. It might be fake. You've sat next to the Undertaker. You want that guy jumping off of the top rope and and pretending like he's gonna land on you and maybe he misses a little bit? Like, now your shoulder's jacked up for three months. Right? Like, I mean, that would A quarter

Michael Waddell: of him a quarter of him land on you is like most of us. Oh my god.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. And now you gotta drive to another place and you gotta do it again. Drive to another place and do it again. He's saying two hundred seventy days on the road. Anyway, you got some stories out of him that he hasn't told on the other podcast, and you you had this real natural way of of of communicating with him. And I could tell that you didn't really know him, but you were able to break through and get into this this this way of I mean, you got it sounded like you guys were old buddies, but you could also tell that you weren't. Like but I just wanted to compliment you on that because you're you should stick with the podcast, man. You're good at it. You're really good at it. And you're gonna have the opportunity to get some really great guests, and and I think it's gonna be a big thing for you. I really do. Do you like doing it?

Michael Waddell: I I appreciate I I do enjoy doing it because, like I said, my my wife tells me I probably talk too much. I I get excited, and I think I feel like I talk more now than I ever did. I I think a lot of it attribute to being older. And and until you have all these kind of pent up philosophical life lessons, and and so I certainly don't feel like I know it all, but I've been around a lot of people. And, and so with that, I think it's a good timing because, you know, from different walks of life, you you've run into a lot of different people, and you got a heck of a Rolodex of people that fit into the narrative of, man, these people need to have their story told, or they need to tell their stories of life lessons, or their adventures of mischievous, whatever it is. Mhmm. And you're and you're right exactly about the Undertaker. I was so pleased that he would come on the show because I was a huge fan of him, but I'm kinda like you. I was just more I I didn't know him, but I I knew him as the Undertaker, but I knew nothing about him. Like, I I had to I had to find out his name was, you know, Callaway, Mark Callaway. I didn't I didn't I just knew the Undertaker and this kinda larger than life, strange, wrestling personality that that I remember, you know, wrestling and and watching him

Tom Rowland: Right.

Michael Waddell: And was intrigued by. But but again, at the end, I I wasn't one of those guys who watched every time it came on, but I always liked what he did. And so, anyway, you're right. Where most people, if you're a huge fan of Undertaker, you know every little story of it. And, you know

Tom Rowland: Well, I don't know, though, because he was so he was so shadowy and and careful. Even on Rogan, he was talking about how he would go out dressed as the Undertaker. Like, he would go to dinner Oh my god. Yeah. Like, dressed as the Undertaker because he didn't want anybody to he didn't wanna mess up his character. Like, I saw the Undertaker, but he was, like, wearing a suit. Like, no. That would have been horrible.

Michael Waddell: Yeah.

Tom Rowland: So he like, for a lot of his career, like, what he was talking about on that was he he just didn't go out. Or if he did, he had to go out in character.

Michael Waddell: I've often thought that that would be harder than what even you and I do because in reality, once you you know, even even the the podcast that I did with him, you can certainly tell that he is really a a smart down to earth guy. Yeah. Almost completely out of character for what I thought. Like, I was I was listening to that firsthand, and I purposely, didn't do a ton of research because I I I wanted to get to know him as he was talking to me, and I was kinda blown away. I'm like, man, this dude this dude is deep. He's a solid man. Like, he you know, I was shocked. He he he was a Christian. You know? I didn't know that about I mean, he, you know, he kinda had this witchcraft about him in the ring. And so so, you know, it's funny. Me and you can, you know, or or take a Willie Robertson with Duck Dynasty or Phil Robertson. They can when they walk out, you know, kinda what you see is what you get. You know? I I never have to go into this character. He lived a life as a character. Now he's just now kinda escaping that character. He's he will always be the undertaker, but but, you know, he he's he's now confident that it ain't about just the marketing.

Tom Rowland: Right.

Michael Waddell: You know? And so, you know, like, even me, the man from Booger Bottom, well, I I really am. It's it is a part of the marketing. It is a part of this.

Tom Rowland: But you don't have to go into care. Like, you don't have you don't have to go into character. Somebody say, man, I met

Michael Waddell: I met I met

Tom Rowland: Waddell, and he was just like he is on TV.

Michael Waddell: Yeah. Like, that's Even it it's funny you said I had to go to a wedding this past Saturday. Tyler Jordan got married, and, man, I my wife had man, she put me in my nicest suit. And, bro, I even had to I had to look online and get me the little, you know, pocket handkerchief and how to fold it. And, bro, I went in there, and I had the best time. And I had a few people in the wedding. They come in like, what the hell, man? You dressed up nice. Like, so are you, man. They're like but I was still the redneck in the in the suit trying to figure out, you know, could you keep going back and and get Michelob Ultra at the bar? You know? And so it it was just it was fun, you know? And and I laughed. And and so, I kinda enjoyed putting on the suit. Yeah. I always read I don't wanna put on I kinda enjoyed, like, man. My wife, like, my god, you're handsome. Thank you, baby. She's so You know, I guess, I

Tom Rowland: One of the funniest things I've ever seen was going to the, going to the, when Bass Pro Shops opened the World Wildlife Museum, and they had they had everybody there. Every celebrity, every hunting, fishing celebrity you ever heard of, and everybody's dressed up. And they all chose to dress a little differently. You had the one guys that that pulled out their suit that they hadn't worn in twenty years, and it it's up to it's up to here. It won't button. And then you had other guys that they went all out, man. Jim Shockey shows up, and he's got this western whole getup going, and he looks

Michael Waddell: sharp, dude. Yeah.

Tom Rowland: I mean and and then you just it was just funny, like, just to see everybody. I saw Bill Dance without his Tennessee hat on for the first time ever, and he's wearing Yeah. Like a like a blue suit. And I was like, damn. Bill Dance looks like somebody's well-to-do grandfather right now. Like, you know, it just That's right. It was just funny just to see everybody doing doing all these different things. But, anyway, anyway, that is that is funny. Alright, man. So, so one of the things I wanna ask you and and just keep the answers just brief, was hunting and fishing better before social media or after?

1:08:45 · Realtree Patterns and Social Media Hunting

Michael Waddell: I think it was better before, honestly. Yeah.

Tom Rowland: I thought that's what you were gonna say.

Michael Waddell: I I do because I think now people hunt just for the social media rather than their own internal, passion or pleasure of it. You know, I see that a lot.

Tom Rowland: So Mhmm. What's your favorite Realtree pattern ever created?

Michael Waddell: You know, probably probably my favorite is this, I I guess it ain't new anymore. I like this this, Realtree timber right now. Man, I love this timber. It's it's kinda it's kinda darker than Mhmm. Your typical Realtree pattern, but I really like it. And I think it looks cool, man. It's just a it's just a kinda sexy on the shelf too. I I just think it looks cool. I like it.

Tom Rowland: Right on. In your opinion, how do you and how do we ensure the fish the the future of hunting and fishing?

Michael Waddell: You know, I think the the number one thing people would say, let's make sure we pass it down to the kids, and, inevitably, that is the ultimate, you know, goal. But I think right now, we're in a different time than we've ever been, but it could be taking a turn for the good. So so overall, you know, I'm I'm not as excited with, you know, let's just say where things have been headed lately, as as a country. However, some of those same things are gonna, I think, inevitably help people better understand hunting and fishing, not just as it applies to the sport, but to a a livelihood, sustainability for body and soul, you know, where there's the food and or the the the mental and emotional joy that it brings. But, I I think the biggest thing we can do is just represent it for exactly what it is. And I think that gets back to as I talked earlier in the podcast about the insecurity, just have complete security that our outdoor hunting and fishing is a God given right, not a privilege. It's a God given right that's given to us, no different, very similar to a right to defend yourself. And so when you understand that if you're hungry and there's not a grocery store with chicken breast, it's okay to hunt a squirrel or a rabbit, regardless if you're an animal lover. It's alright to go and, you know, all those people's got them bass fishing ponds, and I've done it the last two summers where it's like, hey, man. We're taking everything out of here from thirteen, fourteen inches down. You know, we trophy dude, I I would rub fish those places. Man, I'm playing out fish out to Wazoo. I got more bass plays. I eating bass is still fun for me. Oh, yeah. And so you start realizing that it that hunting is more than just, you know, a trophy room. And and I think I would end with that because I I I think this question is there's a little longer answer. I think I would say hunt from a passion and hunt from the standpoint of what can you show about hunting the same joy that if you really passionately love it, what is it that you want to share with others about it that you love? And and and and and and when it comes to trophy hunting, I think there's nothing wrong with that, but we have to be careful in our venture to build these trophy runs because at the end, if we step all over everybody, if we, you know, ruin relationships, friendships, marriages, whatever, over just a dead deer on the wall that might score high, or the same with, you know, trying to catch the world record marlin, all of a sudden, you're gonna be that jerk, you know, with a nice cigar and a glass of Scotch in a lonely, dusty trophy room with no friends. And you really didn't do anything for hunting and fishing. So for me, remember that the true trophy is really the adventures and the stories and the laughing and some stupid joke you and I are gonna play on each other or or or just the fun, the laughter. You know, maybe it's meeting your wife, your kids, vice versa to you, or maybe it's some cornbread we ate at camp that we're like, holy cow, some best freaking cornbread. And you forget that you killed a big deer Right.

Tom Rowland: Or

Michael Waddell: killed a long dispir of turkey or caught a big fish. I think that's what the biggest thing the hunting industry misses, and I think we need to keep celebrating that because that's more important than the trophy. But inevitably, the trophy that the outdoor space provides is a is a sense of provider, providing for us and and not only spiritual, but true substance. If we get to the point where you can't go buy a rib eye or pork chop or chicken breast at the store, If you got access to you know, we do it public ground or private ground, we can survive. And hunting takes on a different toll just not just for those people like who and I who made a living at it, but also somebody in New York City who realizes, like, wait a minute. This table I mean, this field to table is pretty smart process. Mhmm. This lifestyle or this life that these people are living, and I used to call them redneck hillbilly hicks, they're pretty smart. They're they're pretty smart. And and and that that that looks pretty peaceful and pretty, independent from what I have lived. And you realize that the people that don't understand hunting and fishing, sometimes they're very dependent on somebody else to do their killing farm.

1:13:46 · What He Is Most Grateful For

Tom Rowland: Right. Almost entirely, in fact. Okay. So last question. What are you the most grateful for?

Michael Waddell: I think I'm most grateful right now for for for my family. You know, a good Lord has forgiven me over all the dumb things I've done. Lord, I've been just to you know, I've look. I I've been to church, but I've also hail did plenty of hail raising, and I'm still I'm still a sinner. And and I look at the road all the roads I've been down, and I have a great wife that stands behind me, healthy kids. Now I'm most grateful for the very simple things. I I wouldn't even say the chance that I'm gonna get to go elk hunting again. I'm thankful for that. But I'm truly, humbly grateful because I sit here and speak to you, Mark, that I got my help, that that I can still get up and I can go two or three miles or seven miles in the elk country. I can still get out there and play one on one basketball with my kids, and they whoop they get where they whoop because my youngins are are 14 to 21, one to sport. I school them all the time. But but I I'm I'm thankful that I got my help, that I got people that I know I've identified that truly love me. And I had and they have unconditional love for me, and I got unconditional love for them. And that and, so I'm most grateful for the very, very elementary simple things more than I am any of the other things, whether it's, you know, money or anything like that. I'm I'm very confident to have peace that no matter what could happen right now, I think with the foundation of those people I got around me, my father, my wife, some close friends and relatives, that I'm in a place, no matter what happens, that I could find a certain peace, whether it's in a, you know, a huge house or a single wide or a camper trailer or or or whether it's, eating bluegill or or eating filet mignon at my favorite restaurant. So I I think I'm grateful for that mindset more than I am anything and those elementary things of, of having I don't know. It's just it's it's a certain Nirvana for me. I I I literally sounds crazy, but my wife and I just built a a house, and and, just the other night, it I walk out. Turkey season's over. And she I didn't even tell her this story, but I walk out of my porch, and I went to Cracker Barrel, bought me a couple of them rocking chairs. Right? You know? And so I walk out there, and I had me, pour me just a little bit of some Irish whiskey. I'd been watching that picky blinders, so I poured me a little Irish whiskey over the rocks. And I sat up in that rocking chair, and it's it's sunset, and and sun went down. And, and I'm I'm looking at my farm, and I'm looking I got some pecan trees out here. And old Whippoorwill is fired up. Just two or three Whippoorwheels are singing. And, I can hear my youngins, yeah, I can hear my youngins running around in the house. My wife is cooking. She she's making some country fried steak and with some brown gravy and mashed potatoes and macaroni and cheese. And I ain't lying, Mark, man. I I I got emotional, and I almost started crying. I was like, man, thank you. This is heaven. Yeah. I mean, this this is heaven. And a lot of people probably recognize that feeling, but it was just I don't know. And it it was just last night. And so I was like, man, I don't know. That is the thing that all the trophies, all the adventures, I wouldn't trade anything for those moments. Now without those adventures and out certain paychecks, I wouldn't have a new house, and I wouldn't even have a rocking chair for Cracker Barrel. So I don't know. I I think I'm thankful. I'm just I'm just ultimately grateful, humble, and, I I feel like I'm in a good spot as as a as a man. I don't know.

1:17:21 · Waypoint TV and a Keys Tarpon Trip

Tom Rowland: Yeah. That's a great answer, man. Can't do any better. Well, I wanna thank you really for coming on. And, you've had a a remarkable career that is is really probably just getting started, man. You probably got so many we we'll we'll do another podcast to find out what's coming next for you, but I'm sure that you're not gonna sit still. You haven't sat still since you started, so I don't think it's happened.

Michael Waddell: Well, thank you. And and one thing I wanna say before the podcast ends is definitely, man, definitely wanna give you a a huge high five, hug, whatever it is for what you guys are doing at Waypoint. Holy cow. Like you said, you talk about getting those places in your life to where you just go try something and congratulations on all your success and your partner. Y'all y'all definitely paving a heck of a way out there. It's definitely caught my attention. I definitely, enjoy a lot of what the network has to offer. But, you know, whether it's in the this podcast or on the shows that when you can tune in, you know, it's funny. All my TVs are they're Samsung TVs. And so I'm like, what? Look at this. And I'm freaking out, like, excited. So congratulations all y'all doing. I'm looking forward to doing some some more stuff for you guys. And maybe

Tom Rowland: Let's do it, man.

Michael Waddell: Do some fun stuff. So,

Tom Rowland: yeah, let me know. No doubt. Congratulations. You know, on that on that front, the it's it's it's literally it's it's the wild wild west. You can do anything you want. Yeah. I mean, it really is. It's an amazing time right now. An amazing time for a creator because there's

Michael Waddell: No doubt.

Tom Rowland: You can create anything. I mean, you got an idea for a a series that's never existed before because it wouldn't work on television? It probably worked on

Michael Waddell: can roll.

Tom Rowland: On there. You know? It it probably would. But, but listen, it's been awesome to to get to know you a little bit better. I can't wait to, see you in person, and maybe we go to dinner or something or or better yet, go hunting or fishing. I'd love to put you on your first tarpon. I wouldn't wanna destroy your life, but I would love to put you on your first tarpon. First bonefish, bonefish.

Michael Waddell: Love that. And I'm I've never call I've never called a tarpon. I've never have, and I've always wanted I've even went and fed them. I've been down to Key West a couple times and, actually, I don't know if you know, a captain George Clark. He took me out fishing, and, we had a great time. Caught some mahi mahi and just just just kind of a day trip. Man, man, it was fun. And and, man, the whole time, I'm looking at them fillets. I'm bringing them back I'm bringing them back home to Georgia. You know? But,

Tom Rowland: I remember seeing We we need to bring your family down there. We got a great

Michael Waddell: little setup

Tom Rowland: with the Hawks Cay, and they'll do a little fishing and, and and visiting. And, yeah, that'd be great time, man. Let's do it.

Michael Waddell: Yeah. We'll do it. You'll love my kids. You'll get the deck hands. Love my kids because I'll have I got I got four boys. I'll have two of them doing nothing to help belay. We'll do the catch, and we'll have we'll just rotate. Okay.

Tom Rowland: Sounds good, man. Sounds good. Well, Michael, I appreciate it. I know you got stuff to do this afternoon, but thank you again for coming on. And, Thanks

Michael Waddell: for having me on, buddy.

Tom Rowland: We'll see you soon.