Shaw Grigsby: A Bass Fishing Legend on a Lifetime of Tournaments

Tom's Introduction: Bringing Back a Mentor

Tom Rowland: What's going on, everybody? It's the Tom Rowland podcast brought to you by Star brite. Star brite is the maker of an incredible line of products to take care of your boat, your RV, your house, your deck, whatever. I love the Salt Off and the deck cleaner for my boat, so check out the entire line of Star brite products. A few weeks ago, we did a Ask Me Anything podcast, and one of the questions that people asked was, which of the podcast that you put out were your favorites? And I said before, I don't know if I have favorites, but I do have some that were more meaningful or more impactful or ones that I remember a little bit more than other ones. And this one that we're gonna talk about today was very meaningful to me. Was a young guide in Key West. I had an opportunity to be on a television show for the first time. That television show was a show called One More Cast. It was with professional bass angler, Shaw Grigsby. Shaw and I got along really well. He was just an incredibly nice guy, treated me with respect, and taught me quite a bit more than I thought that I was going to learn from a professional bass fisherman as a guide in Key West. I learned about knots. I learned about all kinds of stuff, and I realized that, you know, to to make it to the top of the professional bass world, you had to be pretty good, and Shaw is better than pretty good. Not only does he know that, but he also knows the television world, and he knows the sponsorship world. Later in my career, when I thought that it was time for me to maybe have my own TV show, the first place that I went was to my friend and mentor, Shaw Grigsby. He could not have been nicer. He was incredibly helpful. He helped us to understand what the steps were to get into the television business. He helped me to put together a crew so that we could shoot a pilot, and he helped me to understand what was necessary financially to have a TV show. He didn't have to do any of those things. He did those things really out of the kindness of his heart because he wanted to help. That's the kind of guy that Shaw Grigsby is. So when I was going through my early list of people that I absolutely must have, Shaw Grigsby was top of the list because I think very, very highly of Shaw Grigsby. Shaw Grigsby has had a a wonderful career in bass fishing, a wonderful career in fishing television. And on top of all of those things, he's a great family man and just a just a great guy. I really, really like Shaw Grigsby, and it was my pleasure to have him on this show to learn what his story was, how he got into this, how he rose through the ranks of professional bass fishing, and what it takes. A lot of times, it takes the same ingredients no matter what you are looking for, what you're trying to do, hard work, dedication, and perseverance. Those are a few other things that I took away from my interview with Shaw Grigsby, and that's what you're gonna hear right now on episode 891 of the Tom Rowland podcast. Here we go. Shaw Grigsby. How you doing, man?

Tarpon, Tying Boats Together, and the Early Days in the Keys

Shaw Grigsby: Good, dude. I tell you. I'm doing really well. Doing really well. Thinking back on all those days out there in the in the Florida Keys, having a blast with you.

Tom Rowland: I know it.

Shaw Grigsby: Man, tarpon and tying boats together. We had we had a lot of fun.

Tom Rowland: That was

Shaw Grigsby: that was fun. Crazy.

Tom Rowland: That that one. Yeah. I forgot about that, actually. Tying boats together. That you you taught me a lot of things. And on that day, that I learned even more. And that was that I mean, I was out there, and I'm pulling around in this little skiff and trying to be so quiet. And and then that we we go out there, and you're like, like, well, this is the boat we're fishing. It's a bay boat. I had never been on a bay boat before. And then we've got a bay boat as a camera boat. And I'm, like, man, we're just not I don't think we're gonna be able to do this. And I didn't think we're gonna be able to do it to begin with. And then the trolling motor breaks. Yeah. Unbelievable. And I was like, well, I guess we're going home. You're like, oh, no. Oh, no. No. We're not going home. What we're gonna do is we're gonna tie the other boat to this one, and we had it tied back about enough to where the camera people were were on the camera boat. It actually worked great. It was the best. I think I might have used that since then, like, on purpose. Yeah. Like, okay. Now we're gonna tie them together, and then it's just it was the perfect angle. And And so they could see where we would cast. They could get the bite. But the the camera boat was doing all of the

Shaw Grigsby: All the work.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. And that we had a dead dummy trolling motor on the first one. But, man and we're catching tarpon left and right.

Shaw Grigsby: Yeah. It was so good. Oh my gosh. It was crazy.

Tom Rowland: That was crazy. A

Shaw Grigsby: lot of fun times, man.

Tom Rowland: That that was a lot of fun times. And that was when you were doing One More Cast. How many years did you do that show?

Shaw Grigsby: Twenty three. Twenty three seasons.

Tom Rowland: Twenty three seasons.

Shaw Grigsby: You're close. How many have you done?

Tom Rowland: Sixteen. You're close.

Shaw Grigsby: I told you. It's not

Tom Rowland: I know. But far out. It it's hard to believe, man. Twenty three seasons. I probably did that show with you.

The Barracuda Show That Started Tom's Television Career

Tom Rowland: Was that you the the show that I did with you for barracudas was the first television show I ever did.

Shaw Grigsby: Was it really?

Tom Rowland: First television show I ever did.

Shaw Grigsby: You were you were working with, was it McCutchen?

Tom Rowland: Marshall McCutchen.

Shaw Grigsby: Marshall McCutchen. That's

Tom Rowland: He we weren't working together necessarily, but he was all into fly fishing for permit, and he only wanted fly clients. And Woody called him, and he was like, you know what? I I think this is gonna be better for you. I think this is gonna be a good opportunity. You do this. And I was like, sounds great.

Shaw Grigsby: Yeah.

Tom Rowland: Sounds great. So go out. Change your life. It did change my life. That one day absolutely changed my life. And what changed it the most was that, you know, we went out. We had a nice day. You said, boy, it'd be nice if we again, it was like all these things that I learned, but we're catching all these nice fish, fourteen, fifteen pound cudas. You're like, boy, it'd be nice if we get a 20. I'm like, what? How much can we possibly do here? I mean, one fifteen pounder after another after another. You're like, yep. Well, we'll probably come back tomorrow and get another one. I was like, god. Okay. I guess. And so we we went back and sure enough, you got that 20. I can remember exactly where it was too. I can remember exactly where it was. You got that 20 pounder. And, so I'm thinking, well, I'm sure it's probably gonna be a pretty good show. But that was when you were on TNN. Right?

Shaw Grigsby: Correct.

Tom Rowland: Monday night?

Shaw Grigsby: Yeah. We well, we had Saturdays and and, hey. I don't remember all the time.

Tom Rowland: So but the ratings were nuts. They must have been because my phone didn't stop ringing. And it changed it changed everything. I'm like, there's something to this TV thing. Like, there is something to it. Like, I don't know how else you can you can justify it, but, like, I had a I had a literal, tape recording, voice, what answering machine. Yeah. And and it had a cassette tape in it, like a ninety minute cassette tape, full. Like, it had it had a red light on it that, that I had never even seen before. Full. Right? Like yeah. The tape full light. And I walked in one day. I'm like

Shaw Grigsby: What the heck is that?

Tom Rowland: That red light? And Cynthia's like, I don't know. The phone has been ringing off the hook. And, so I started listening, and and there was another one. Oh, yeah. Shaw Grigsby. Shaw Grigsby. Shaw Grigsby. Barracudas. Shaw Grigsby. Shaw Grigsby. Barracudas. And I was like, wow. This is this is totally Barracuda.

Shaw Grigsby: I mean, that's one of the funnest fish I've ever caught. I know. God. They go so fast. I think it's the fastest fish in short distance. Right? Yeah. Fastest fish for short distance. They jump incredibly high. I mean, it's it's insane. And you your fish so active, you know, just reeling a bait real fast. It was man, it was fun.

Tom Rowland: I mean, that is the fun part about it. Like, that that really appeals to a lot of bass fisherman. Because if you're used to, like like, throwing a a a swimbait or, like, what would you equate that to the most where you're just throwing as far as you can and reeling it in? Throwing as far as you can and reeling it in.

Shaw Grigsby: Yeah. That's and you're reeling it fast. I mean, really fast. So you're you're burning a bait. I don't know. Maybe you're, like, burning a spinnerbait or something like that, but it

Tom Rowland: And then all of a sudden, it just starts going the other way.

Shaw Grigsby: He I I remember him so so vividly in the in filming that show and that, you know, I'd be reeling one in. It'd be tight, and you're fighting like this. And all of a sudden, the line, it goes slack, and you go, oh, man. He cut me off. And I was like, oh, he rides over here. He's going the other way.

Tom Rowland: Because he's so fast. Back around. Like, today, we would have a drone up there, and you would see that the fish would take off like this and do a circle whole circle. The line is completely slack until you catch up to him over here and, you know, but back then, there wasn't any drone. It was it was really, like, was that single camera? Or we might have had two cameras. You had I think we had Mark Emery and and and Wooten.

Shaw Grigsby: And Wooten. Yeah. I think we had, underwater and and above water. And every now and then, we do, you know, another another camera in the boat, so we'd have two. But the the underwater was always scary. That was yeah. Especially saltwater. We we've had some close calls.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. But you had a good cameraman. Yeah. We did. Mark Emery.

Shaw Grigsby: We had a great great team.

Tom Rowland: Emery was like, he would show me after the shoot. He's like, well, look at the stuff I did with alligators and yeah. Look at this stuff I've done with all these other things. Well, okay.

Shaw Grigsby: That's He's won two Emmys since personal yeah. For his photography. He's amazing.

Tom Rowland: You know, I saw him at Hawks Cay one year. He was down there doing some filming, and, I was sitting down on the back porch of the Hawks Cay thing, and here comes Mark right up. He's like, Tom Rowland. Mark Emery, what are you doing here? But he's a good dude, man.

Shaw Grigsby: Oh, isn't he? Isn't he? Have you seen any of his deer stuff?

Tom Rowland: Yeah. Oh, my god. Wasn't there one where the antler dropped while he was filming it?

Shaw Grigsby: Oh, yeah. Yeah. This time of year is when that's happening.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. And he's filming it, and it just falls off.

Shaw Grigsby: Yeah. Ain't that cool that I think the deer that

Tom Rowland: they The chances of that happens. Drop.

Shaw Grigsby: Yeah. Awesome.

How One More Cast Began

Tom Rowland: So, Shaw, like, in order to get 23 of One More Cast, I don't I've never known the story of of how you got started.

Shaw Grigsby: You know, it it it it wasn't really anything special. I I kept doing little things with other people. You know, like, I'd be on on, back in those days, there was, you know, I I didn't film with Roland, or Hank or Jimmy. It was Orlando Wilson. I filmed two shows with Orlando, and then I was asked to do some for a guy, that had a show, I'm trying to remember the name of it, Sportsman's Challenge. I did that. And so you're doing bit parts and and and helping out and and such, and I just thought, you know what? It'd be something I might be interested in doing. And and then we were doing bass and golf and bass and race with Woody, which were, event television. So you'd get, you know, the professional golfers and professional fishermen, put them together and compete. And you do the NASCAR guys and professional fishermen, put them together and compete. And it was it was some fun times. And one day, Woody comes and says, hey. You wanna do a show? You know, regular series. And I went, yeah. Why not? So that's that's how it happened. It was just kind of, fell into it.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. But the springboard for that, what was your what was your professional fishing career like before the

Shaw Grigsby: Tournament fishing? The B.A.S.S. circuit and doing pretty good at the time. And and, you know, I've won a number of events and and, you know, making the Classic really regular at the time. But I started in '84 professionally. I made my first Classic in '86 then again in, like, '88. But then in the nineties, I was, like, clicking them off. And we started the show in '96 is when we filmed the the, kind of the teaser to get it going and then the first episode. And we pitched it, and it and it all ran together well. And then in '97, it aired. So we filmed everything in '96 for the ninety seven season, and it was it was awesome.

Show Formats and the Art of Filming Fishing

Tom Rowland: Did you always have the idea that it would be more than bass fishing?

Shaw Grigsby: Yes. You know, growing up in Florida, my goodness. We got, you know, we got saltwater all around us. And so, I always love redfish and trout and doing all that. And, so I wanted it. In fact, when we started the show, if you remember, we had a segmented show. So it was half saltwater and half freshwater every show, but you were working yourself to death. So we only did that, like, one season. We're like, we're not doing that again because you have to film, you know, 13 freshwater. And and filming a segment is just like filming a show. Right. It doesn't take you any less, you know, just because you're going you know, what do we do about twenty two minutes on a show? And, so you would still do about the same time to get your little ten, eleven minutes out of that deal as you did, you know, film at a full length. So we just said, no. We'll just go do full shows and mix them up.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. I always like that format. Like, I always I particularly like the, the, In-Fisherman format. Like yes.

Shaw Grigsby: We're having a magazine type.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. They used to do three different set segments. And they would have, like, Larry Dahlberg would do one, and the Lindners would do one, and, well, somebody else would do another. And it would be like it would all have a theme. Like, there would be spring bass fishing, and then there would be kinda the last you know, right when the ice is out for pike, and then there would be, like, some other kinda spring thing. And then the next one would have, like, trout fishing and pike fishing and lake trout fishing. And I always kinda like that, but it just seemed like that was a lot of work. Like, what I know now, like, they're filming

Shaw Grigsby: three shows

Tom Rowland: Exactly. To get that one. And and they I can see why you would gravitate over to just one. And and not

Shaw Grigsby: only that, it's that when you're out there filming, you really liked I like to teach. So you like to teach, and it's hard to get everything you wanna teach in ten minutes. It just it just doesn't happen. And so, you know, there's all these little things you wanna cover. And, so that was a big thing for me is that, you know, once you realize how short those things are, that that you really wanted the full length.

Tom Rowland: Mhmm. So It's hard. I mean, even in the twenty two minutes and thirty seconds is pretty much the the the time that we're always striving for right there. Twenty two minutes and thirty seconds. And when you have all of these different pieces, like the the bumps to the break and the Right. The billboards and all these other things, the fishing segment is all in a twenty two minute show, the fishing is maybe about twelve, thirteen minutes maybe. And and you gotta get all this kind of stuff in there. People people sometimes ask, like, you know, you guys don't catch enough fish. It's like, man, if you knew what went on to it, you you'd be surprised we caught anything. Like like tying two boats together.

Shaw Grigsby: So so we were doing a and this is it early on. We were doing a tarpon show, and I was down at, Indian River somewhere down south. And, the tarpon, you know how they are. First thing in the morning, they come up bloop bloop and you can catch them. And then they disappear. Well, I I had these little tarpon coming up, and my buddies with me, Mark Sabides, and we're fishing. And he's like, go out there, and he catches one. And, you know, little one, you know, what's that? 25 pounds or something. And we get the pictures. I'm like I'm like, alright. Good. He let it go. And I said, fifth grade, let's go get another one. And Mark's like, no. No. No. No. No. He said, we gotta get this shot. We gotta have the sunlight. Right? We got this this this this this this. And and and and I'm like, do what? I I wanna catch I realized real quick it had nothing to do with fishing. He's like, this is art. Yes. What this is? This is art. So we had to do all this stuff, and I'm like, oh, well.

Tom Rowland: Well, there has to be a there has to be a balance. And this is what we have to always talk to the camera guys because the camera guys are thinking, look. This is how you make a show. And you have to listen to that because if you do it with a fisherman's mind

Shaw Grigsby: Right.

Tom Rowland: You're gonna make a terrible show.

Shaw Grigsby: It's just gonna be catch one cause, and

Tom Rowland: then I'll catch another. They have to also understand that, look, it's not like we're gonna be able to do this all day. Like, this is fifteen minute window

Shaw Grigsby: Right. A day. Right.

Tom Rowland: And we can make up these other shots in a half an hour. But if we don't catch that fish right now

Shaw Grigsby: Not gonna do it.

Tom Rowland: You'll never you're not gonna see one until tomorrow morning.

Shaw Grigsby: Yeah.

Tom Rowland: And it's it's a real delicate balance of trying to to be be courteous and respectful of what they're trying to say, but also to have them kinda understand from a fisherman's perspective is, like, listen, man. We gotta catch that fish. And and some funny stories, you know, where after after years, I'm sure you got plenty of these stories too. But the camera guys are, like, wait. What are you doing? We're we're gonna go catch that fish right there. No. No. No. No. No. You can't catch that. It's going you're shooting right into the light, man. We can't do that. And it's like, well, he's not gonna do that all day. And they're like, well, I I mean, we gotta catch him the other way. Like, the other way. What do you mean? You mean I need to pull around this whole fish? And and it's like, okay. I guess that's what we're gonna do. And so we do it. And sure enough, it actually worked. And and so over the years, I've kinda learned, like, okay. Well, so many of the things that I thought were just written in stone, like, a bonefish tail's right there. You gotta catch that fish or he's gone. Maybe not. Like, maybe you can wait. Maybe you can pull around that fish. Maybe you can follow him down the flat. Maybe you can figure out a way to do it to where you're not catching him down light.

Shaw Grigsby: Yeah.

Tom Rowland: And and in the beginning, like, I don't know. There's so many parts of education or or whatever that in the beginning of something, you just see something as as it's borderline impossible. Then you learn a little bit more about it, and you're like, oh, well, it's not as hard as I thought it was gonna be. And then you learn a little bit more about it, you're like, oh, well, I could do it. We could do that. I could do it a 100 different ways. Yeah. But it takes a long time. I mean, the first time that we were told to poll around the school of redfish and come at them the other way and put the fish between the camera boat and and us, I just thought this is This is waste of time. Yeah. This is a total waste of time.

Shaw Grigsby: We've lost the whole thing. Might as well just back it in.

Tom Rowland: But it worked, and then it turns out that's the best shot maybe we've ever gotten.

Shaw Grigsby: Yeah. Exactly.

Tom Rowland: Like, it's crazy. But there's so many situations like that.

Shaw's First Bass Tournament and a Shotgun Start

Tom Rowland: How did you get started being a professional bass fisherman?

Shaw Grigsby: That was kind of a neat deal. I, you know, I was a fisherman, and my dad would always fish. We'd go redfishing and trout fishing in the mountains. Love trout fishing, you know, for rainbows and little brooks and things like that. And then, we do that every summer. And, but, anyway, I was a boy scout. And in eighth grade at at my high school, eighth grade, this kid that I knew from boy scouts, he was the new kid at that year in in our school. And, so I'm the only guy he knew, and I knew him from boy scouts. He was like an Eagle Scout and then my patrol leader and all kinds of stuff. So we were buddies already. I, so we just got to be real close friends, and he loved fishing. And he loved bass fishing. Not just fishing. He loved bass fishing. So now I'd go bass fishing with him. You know, I love fishing, so we go. Well, next thing you know, he calls me up one day and he says, hey, man. You want to, wanna go fish a tournament? Well, you know, I hadn't had fished tournaments, but sitting here, I was racing motorcycles. Every weekend, I try to have some race somewhere. Well, I didn't have one that weekend. So we drove down the Kissimmee chain. And back in those days, they would line all the boats up in line, shoot a flare, and everybody takes off. So Shotgun start. Yeah. Shotgun start. So everybody lines up. We get out there, and we're like, well, dang, I don't wanna go way over there. We so we just said, well, we got we're not our boat's not that fast, so we're gonna sit behind the main line, and we'll let them go, and we'll take off. So, anyway, this guy can run by up front and shoots a flare, and all those boats in front of us take off. Now the two in front of us, you know, these guys had patches and jumpsuits and smoke and and, you know, all identically dressed up. They were obviously really good anglers right there. Well, they shower down on it and, you know, outboards, they blow big holes in the water because it's gonna push the boat to get it on plane. But we're behind them, and we hit it, and we go up just like your boat does. You know, it's gonna come up, and then it's gonna lay flat. Well, there's no water because that's what those two boats so we went up and just fell like it felt like forever, like, three feet. My tackle box floated up in the air. When it hit the deck, it blew open. I got rods laying everywhere, baits everywhere, and I'm just kinda scraping them together and trying to hold things together. And I'm going, you know, driving. What you know, my buddy Jerry who did this, Jerry Beavis. I'm like, I like, go straight to the point. Straight to the point. So he's like, he's right open. He'd cut to the point because everybody else is kinda doing this. We cut off about 20 boats at that point. Then he cuts to the canal to go into from, Hatchineha into Cypress. And I said, go right to the bank, right to the bank. So he's over there, and I'm still holding rods and keeping baits. And he cuts next to that, and we cut off about another 20. And we're running down the bank maybe six, eight inches off the bank down. And it was awesome. I get to the to the locks going into into, Toho, and I'm shaking. I'm like, this is the best ever, and I'm putting tackle up. And I tie a Texas rig, simple Texas rig, bullet weight, hook, worm. I tie it on three times and forget the weight. That's how jacked up I was. I was like, this is the sport for me. I get to fish and race. This is it. So that was it. That was the end of it. I started fishing.

Tom Rowland: Wow. And motorcycle racing just kinda hit a back seater, did you?

Shaw Grigsby: I wasn't any good anyway. I just liked it. Yeah. You know?

Horsepower Limits and Bass Boat Design

Tom Rowland: Well and then for in the early part of, of bass fishing, like, back in those days, was there a horsepower restriction?

Shaw Grigsby: Yeah. We had one fifty. So a 150 horsepower. But, actually, back then, when that happened, when we were doing the deal, the biggest motor was, like, a one twenty five or one thirty five. So that was, like, the biggest motor made. So I think Mercury had a one thirty five and OMC had a one twenty five. And so, yeah, that's a long time ago. But since then, B.A.S.S. went to a a one fifty horsepower rating when I started professionally, and it's been that way for years. And then they went finally broke it open to 250. So now the boats are really scooting.

Tom Rowland: How much difference does that make in bass boats?

Shaw Grigsby: Doesn't. I mean, I I love the days with one fifty. I mean, that was just a perfect time, and you could still run, you know, mid sixties Mhmm. And, have a great time, low sixties. It was fine. You get in where you wanna go and and, but it's it's nice to have a bigger boat for when you get those wave conditions.

Tom Rowland: So is that what changed the the two fifty opened up the opportunity to have a a bigger

Shaw Grigsby: Yes. Boat? Yes. So by going from, you know, one fifty when you could have, like, an 18 footer, now you can have, like, a 21 footer, and it's makes it a little bit more comfortable.

Tom Rowland: Mhmm. I wonder why the bay boat style like, there were a couple years there where where there were, like, a center console style bass boat was people tried it. Why do you think that the bass boat design has stayed the way it is?

Shaw Grigsby: I don't know. It's real efficient. I mean, real efficient and real comfortable, in the sense that it's really set up for fishing. You know, you you got the got a trolling motor on the front. You're maneuvering yourself. It's almost like you're floating the whole time. You know? You so, you know, I need to go there. You you don't even think about it because, foot pedal retains the you know, your your body retains the the knowledge of if you have your foot here, it's going this way or this way. You don't even look. So, you know, with the foot pedal operation, you're like, I gotta go there. You're just you touch your toe a little bit and you go to it, and it's just, like, so natural and so easy. And and and to be able to ease in quietly and work cover and ease out, and and so I I just think that whole style, really suits itself to to, you know, pursue and going after the bass.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. Yeah. It's a it's an interesting boat, like, coming from the from the saltwater boat and getting in, like, when we were filming the Sweetwater show. I hadn't spent time in a bass boat in a long time. And I'm getting in there, and I'm kinda like, these are different boats, but they're very, very, I guess they're perfectly designed for the purpose. Exactly. Like, the bay boat is also perfectly designed for my purpose. Yes. And I kinda get in the bass boat. I'm like, I wonder why they don't do it like this. I wonder why they don't do it like that. But it's you know, there's they're they're designed specifically for the bass fishing.

Shaw Grigsby: Yeah. You you get on those lakes and and, you know, in a bay boat, you're you're really not. And sometimes you are, you know, really trying to hold particular spots or whatever, but a lot of times you're working large expanses of water, so it's not as pinpoint. You know, with us, we we gotta make that cast right there. You know, you need to hit right next to this log. If you have too much in the boat like a console that sticks up or whatever, it's catching the wind, making things a lot more, you know, a lot harder to to hold the boat and keep it in position. So, yeah, the boats are just they're they're about perfect. You know, lean and sleek and and get you there and get you back.

Electronics and the Biggest Innovations in Bass Fishing

Tom Rowland: What do you think the biggest innovation has been in bass fishing since since you started?

Shaw Grigsby: We've had so many. Electronics are just going nuts. Nuts. I mean, you know, going now to where you have, you know, you can scan out, you know, 300 feet, a 150 feet on each side, 200 feet on each side. You know, I mean, you can see everything under the water. It almost paints a picture of what's down there. Down scan, I now have a forward facing sonar. What's interesting about that, that kid, Jerry, that got me into bass fishing, we would catch black drum on the Suwannee River. Mhmm. They'd come in these big schools of black drum. And the old timers, if you were quiet, you could hear them because they'd be just making this noise, but you'd also see the water boiling, the turbulence you throw in there and you catch one. Well, we'd catch one, and then we'd lose the school because it takes you twenty minutes to land him. You know, these are 30 to 60 pounders. Right. And, I got pictures of being a little kid, you know, holding this big old drum up. And so so Jerry's sitting there. All we have is flashers back in the day. Okay? And Jerry says, well, you know, why don't we turn that transducer and look for them? Because if we turn it, we're gonna find them. And we'll just have to figure out if they're because it's a flasher, you know, 60 foot flasher. You know, is he is he, you know, at at 20 feet or is he at 80 feet or is he at you know, where where are they once you see him on the graph or on the flasher? And so we built this. He was a woodworker, so he built this wood puck deal that mounted on the trolling motor, hand control. Back then, it was like Silvertrol. It was like the only trolling motor made way back in there. And we so it's hand control, and he put it on there, and it didn't work because he shot it straight out. It hit the surface, and we realized, dude, that didn't work. So he had to angle it. So he built another way where we could angle it down slightly, and it worked like a champ. Then we'd stay on for, like, three hours till you couldn't handle him. Or, I mean, you'd hook him up and be like, okay. We'd have two at a time. Both of us had two rods. We're like, hold of this. We back then, you had a pedestal that had a a hole, and the seat would sit on top of it. We'd stick a rod in there, finish laying this one, pull this one up, and finish laying that. It was great, man. We had so much fun catching those dudes, and it was all there. And now that's the hottest thing in in fishing. It's the sport. So now you can look out there and go, there's a fish. You can see, then you can throw your bait out there and watch the bait go down. There it is, and you can watch him swim over. Oh, here we go. Yep. It's awesome. Yeah. So how cool are the electronics? You know, Power-Poles, electronics, those are probably the main things. I'm sure I miss it stuff, but engines, four strokes, you know. Oh my gosh. It's just crazy how good things have gotten.

Tom Rowland: Plus the the baits baits

Shaw Grigsby: The lures.

Tom Rowland: Like lures and baits and hooks. Everything's gotten better. It's almost like when you think back, like, even in my saltwater, you know, experience, like, we used to permit fish with with j hooks, and and they were these crappy hooks, and we'd have to sharpen them

Shaw Grigsby: All the time.

Tom Rowland: And and make sure that they stayed sharp. You put it through the crab, and now now you gotta sharpen it again. And now they come out, they're perfectly chemically sharpened. And, like, I put one right through my thumb not too long ago. They're real sharp.

Treble Hooks and Getting Hooked

Shaw Grigsby: I've done that. They are sharp. Real sharp.

Tom Rowland: You've you've hooked yourself in a tournament?

Shaw Grigsby: Many times. And and Many times.

Tom Rowland: I wanna know, like, how did it happen? Because, I mean, you've handled thousands of fish. Like, so how does it happen with a bass fisherman?

Shaw Grigsby: With with a bass, it's pretty simple. They they have them in their mouth and you and you just can't get your hand in. Like, I was filming the MLF, Major League Fishing, and I caught one on a crankbait, and I his mouth was kinda pinned closed. And I had to get my hand in there till I had to land him. I got it, and I knew it was gonna stick me, and it did. So now it's jammed into my thumb, and I got him. And so so now in Major League, you don't have anybody to help you. Your boat official is not supposed to help you. Camera guy can't help you. And I'm like, now what do I do? And I go, okay. So I'm holding him, kinda pinning him, and I take it and I wedge that hook, the, split ring of the hook into the crack of his mouth to where it's kinda holding the hook, and then I just back my thumb back out of it. And it was like you're like, that's gonna leave a mark, you know, and I but I got it out and everything worked out. But it happens like anything else. They just flip and and and twist and and they get you in. And I generally get one, they're pretty regular. I mean, it's pretty regular. It's not I don't even think about them anymore. We just get them go, okay. Here we go. And we you know, that string technique, I don't use the string, but that technique is what holds as soon as you hold that eye down, and then you can pop it. It just comes right out. The best one, though, saltwater, grouper fishing, shallow water grouper. It was a tarpon day. We're fly fishing for tarpon, cloudy overcast. You can't see, you know, because once it gets that white cloud, you just can't see. Everybody goes, let's just go offshore and catch some grouper. Alright. So we take off. We didn't have but a rod each, so we run offshore. And I was with a guy named Al Dopirak, one of the yeah. Top guides, you know, tarpon guides ever. He probably had as many world records as anybody. And, I'm with Al. And Steve Kilpatrick, who has the you know, who guided to the world record, tarpon, he, he's in another boat with a guy, you know, with the charter. We run offshore, and we start cranking for him. Well, you know, Al gets one. I get one. We're reeling him in. Well, when Al brings his in, you know, he kinda brings it in. I get mine in. I pin him behind the head. He's not a real big grouper. And I pin him. I got this big jerk bait laying outside, and I said, this isn't good. I said, he's gonna get me, and I didn't have gloves because usually we have gloves. We're prepared for this where we were tarpon fishing. We weren't. Anyway, he flipped, buried the hook, and I think it's, like, right here, and it went in and came out and had me pinned with him still on it.

Tom Rowland: That's the worst.

Shaw Grigsby: And that's those big trebles, you know. And so I pushed him against the side, and I'm like, Al, he's got me. You gotta gotta help. So Al brought his in and just flopped him on the deck and left him, came over, got the fish off. So now I got this plug in in me here. Al goes back to his, and when he goes for it to fish. Is Oh, no. Embarrass the hook in his hand. And Al turns as white as white. He's like, oh. And so we're holding Al's down. My hand's all I mean, I got hooks all at me. I'm holding his to where because it's fish is still hooked, and we're like, dude, you realize we're gonna float across the Gulf Of Mexico, and they're gonna see two skeletons with grouper bones in it because there's nothing we can do. I mean, we're we're all hooked up. We're like, what are we gonna do? And so and so we we're yelling because Steve's at another rock down there. We're yelling. He finally, like, what's going on over there? And he limps over, then he just starts laughing. And we're all up there. So thank goodness we had somebody out there that could help us. But then we did this technique, and they all popped out. It was okay. But, man, it was it was like craziness.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. For me, it always seems like I I've only had it happen one time, and it was recently. And, I was bone fishing. I'm using a circle hook and a shrimp. And we're there's a lot of fish. We're getting a lot of shots. And I throw to a bonefish and a little jack about the size of your hand comes over and eats it. Well, the bonefish is still doing his bonefish thing. Yeah. So I rip this thing in as fast as I can, and it's green as it can be. Yeah. And it the the the fish went up the line. So the fish is like well, the hook went through the little I mean, the fish is the only this big. Yeah. And the hook goes through the mouth, and so the fish is kind of on the line a little bit. Well, I reach over there to grab the hook, and I knew as soon as I did it, I knew it was a bad mistake because I was looking at the bonefish. I'm looking, and I'm trying as fast as I can to get this off because I'm thinking, get him off, get a shrimp, cast, and catch the bonefish. Right. And so as soon as I reached for the the fish, he was just barely had just enough of that hook to where he was staying right here. And then he slipped down the line, and immediately, it pulled the hook like this, and it pulled the hook right into my hand. And now I was like Really? No. I mean, I first thing is I was thinking, well, I'm not gonna catch that bonefish.

Shaw Grigsby: Yeah. Doggone. That's what they got.

Tom Rowland: And we got cameras. Yeah. We got everything. I'm like, I I must have said something bad because Rich goes, what happened? And I said, I'm gonna need a little help. And he's like, okay. And and so I'm holding the the thing, and the fish is flopping. And I'm trying to get the fish, but I'm also trying to hold a rod. And and we got the remote control for the trolling motor now, so I've I've got all this stuff in my hands. And I'm like, I need you to come up here and cut this fish off. And he's he's like, uh-oh. That doesn't sound good. So he comes up there and cuts the line. So now the fish is off and and I'm like, okay. Now I could relax because it's not right. But we didn't have like, my pliers were were thick. I had these Van Staal pliers since they so they were good. So wide. Yeah. Great pliers, but they were too wide to get in there and bend the bend the barb down. Mhmm. Like, because of the hook the circle hook.

Shaw Grigsby: Right.

Tom Rowland: And so now we have to go through, and we find the oldest, worst looking needle nose pliers that have a rust stain all over them and and finally get it in there and just pinch that barb down. And I tried and tried and tried, and finally, I was just like, it's coming out this time. I mean, one way or another. Just like you said, you pulled yours out. It's coming out. And and just backed that thing out. But, I don't like that when that happens. But, you know, it's gonna happen. And and a lot of people think that it's gonna happen, like, somebody's gonna cast it into you or or something. It's usually gonna be, like, you're washing the boat, and one of them is in the vertical rod holder, and you're like, you know, you just you just do the brush right into the treble hook or something. I saw somebody else did that. I think it was somebody somebody good. And it was shortly after I had done my thing, and and I saw I saw on their Instagram, it was like, yep. Happened to me too.

Shaw Grigsby: Yeah. Yeah. It happens all of us. Mainly with us, it's crankbaits or jerkbaits or something lipless baits. But it's crankbaits, trebles, and you grab a bass and he's flopping and just somehow, you know, he gets you. It's I mean,

Tom Rowland: some of those baits are like this and it gets three treble hooks on them.

Shaw Grigsby: That's a lot of hooks. Yeah. So I I get it pretty regular and, you know, it used to bother me like, okay. But now it's more like, here we go. Yeah. Yeah. Get another one out and keep going.

Founding Major League Fishing

Tom Rowland: So you've had some big changes over the last, few years with with the with the MLF. Right? Incredible. So tell me about that. Like, you were one or were you one of the early pioneers of it?

Shaw Grigsby: One of the founders. There's a

Tom Rowland: You were one of the founders. Yeah. Alright. So how does that happen? Like

Shaw Grigsby: We so we knew there was a better way to do fishing, you know, bass fishing. And, Boyd Duckett had some ideas to Gary Klein, and they were always talking. And I was Gary's roommate, and we're all talking about, you know, we need to do stuff. So well, Boyd had taken some concepts to B.A.S.S. and and run it by him and said, hey. You know, what do you think of this? Well, they kinda shot him down and said, no. We're not interested. And and Boyd knew that that there's a sports market out there, meaning people that watch football, basketball, baseball, hockey, soccer, all that stuff, and you have that group of people, and it's this big. Yeah. Right? It's huge. And then you have a group of people that like bass fishing, and it's this big. Right? So it's it's this group. So you got bass fishing. You got sports people. We wanted to get this group involved in bass fishing. And so, you know, we had ideas. And so Boyd just put together a group, and it was, you know there was 12 of us, I think, initially started it, 12 or 13, that initially started it. And we just invited guys to come in and try this. Put it together with a network, so we had network backing. We had great people behind it, and they loved it. And it just lit off. I mean, it's a it's a neatest thing in the world because every fish counts. It's not like you catch five, and then you gotta call through and do whatever. It's every fish counts, which means there's no let up. There's the the intensity level, the the competition level is just amazing. I've never fished harder in my life, and, and it's never been more exciting because every bite counts. So you don't have a limit your in the the the environmental aspects of it. You catch that fish, you let them go right now. So we're not putting them in a live well, carrying them around time after time. So letting them go, they're staying alive, and that's a great thing to do.

Tom Rowland: Now do you do you measure them? Is there is there anything that has anything to do with size?

Shaw Grigsby: Size limit. Yes. So, at first, we had a 12 inch limit, which is kind of a standard in a bass tournament. 12 inch limit. And then we had a number of fish that would come in that are 12 inches, but they're only, like, 13 ounces. They're pretty skinny. So we said, well, let's just make it a one pound limit. So we went to a one pound limit. This season, we're doing a variable limit. So if the lake's a really good lake, we might have a three pound limit or a two pound limit or or whatever. So they're gonna they're gonna adjust that this year. I don't know how the jury's out on that. I can just tell you that with a one pound limit, doing what we do, we love to fish and we love to catch fish. And our ratings have gone just stupid. I mean, it's just climbed exponentially, and we're off the charts now. So we're like the number one show on, like, every every market that we air. And and, usually way above anything is number two. So so you know you're doing the right thing when you know the people like it. I go to the sport shows. I was just at East Tennessee Fishing Show, and every person walked up. Man, that is the greatest thing. I just love it. Love watching you guys do this. That's the feedback we get. And so it's really neat. It's awesome to be a part of it. We went from Major League to doing a tour. So we went to the Bass Pro Tour. And then we took the 80 best anglers in the world, and they all signed up, and we started a tour. And it's, it's been an adventure. Last year was the first year. We're coming to the second year now. It's it's been awesome. It's well received. I mean, like I said, we we blew away the ratings. We were on Discovery Channel. And, with that and we really are just getting started. So we're making changes and adjustments because we know that this is just what we were able to do first season, just like you. Next season, we're gonna incorporate this. Next season, we'll make this change and this change. And as you keep going, you get a better product. And so that's that's we're just in its in in our infancy.

Angler-Driven Decisions and Growing the Sport

Tom Rowland: So how much of what you're doing is that group of professional anglers saying, I think this is what's needed, and how much of it is the, input from fans and people that watch or sponsors or whoever? How how is this thing evolving? Like

Shaw Grigsby: So the anglers actually make the decisions, which is really cool. That's the first time we've been able to be angler driven anglers, you know, doing their deal. The first decision they made was no entry fees. How was that? So we took sponsor money, and we're fishing for sponsor money. It's the first time that's happened in fishing ever is to is to have that go on. So, and then they're making other decisions, you know, when we need decisions on, you know, how do how how do we need to do this or what decision we need to make on this format or whatever, and we and they're the ones that drive it all. So, in fact, they're the ones that that went to this variable size limit. So, so, anyway, we always try to tweak things and and make it a little better. But so far, it's just been, you know, it's just been a neat, neat deal.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. Everything I read about it, it it's the the thing that keep the authors keep going back to is that the anglers now can control their own destiny. Right. So they're they're able to do that because they're owners and decision makers? Or

Shaw Grigsby: There there there is a group of owners. There's about, I think, there's 17 stockholders owners. There is and those not all those are anglers. I think there's, like, 12 or 13 anglers, and the rest of them are are the business people. Then you have then you have the rest of the anglers. They're all decision making. If you're fishing the tour, you have a boat. You're you're so it's just like being board of directors or whatever. And and a owner's boat is no different from a fisherman's boat, so it's the same same boat boat. So that's where they get to do that. And what's really important, you know, I've heard, people there's there's you know, I mean, B.A.S.S. has done a great job, and and they we have to the whole industry was designed because of B.A.S.S. and came apart came about because of B.A.S.S. And so, you know, we have a lot of lot of, good feelings about them and and thank them for what they did. Taking it to the next level, they would never go past what they what they were doing. So, and that's I mean, that's just their that's their business model, and that's what they do. We just wanted to make it as big a sport as we can have, and then everybody you know, how the so we're saying is a high tide floats all boats. Mhmm. The bigger we make this, the bigger's gonna make it for everybody. And so we knew we could tap into those sports people, and then some of those sports people are gonna look at this and go, man, this is really cool. I'm gonna try it. So they're gonna buy a rod and reel. They're gonna buy a boat. I I had one, you know, at the East Tennessee Fishing Show saying, my my buddy watched this. He got so hooked on the live broadcast. He went out and bought him a boat and a deal and all of these all that's what I'm talking about. So so it's not just a thought, it's reality. This is what's happening is that we're increasing the size of the fishing, you know, the bass fishing market. And, and in doing that, I think that's helping everybody. I've seen a lot of negatives from people that are, like, clinging on to the, you know, the old school bass. And and I'm okay with that because, you know, anytime you start something new, you're gonna have some blowback all the time. So, I understand that they talk about, you know, small fish. You just catch small fish and anybody can do that. Well, come try it and see if you can do that because it didn't it I I've been there, and and it's not that easy. And, so I hear a lot of that, and that's kinda where that variable size limit and all that. And also choosing bodies of water that have bigger fish because we fish no different. When we get on the water, there is not like, I'm I'm a pick up a shaky head and go catch little ones. You don't do that. You're fishing for the best, biggest fish you can and as many as you can catch. And the real key is to stay on them. So catch them in the morning, and then when the clouds go away, you know, for the sunrise comes up and and things change, you have to still be on them, and you have to still catch them, and you go through the whole day. And it's extremely hard. I watch it over and over on these shows, and you'll see it on the Bass Pro Tour where a guy catch him in the morning, and then he's struggling. And he may be in top spot, and all of a sudden, he's clicking down, clicking down. He's just struggling to stay in the cut line. And, and so it's the hardest, like I said, the hardest fishing I've ever done. So, we're making adjustments for that, but, I think we're on the right path. I don't think you ever wanna change the basics of what we're doing as long as the viewership keeps just climbing Sure. Ridiculously. Sure. And it's ridiculous how how fast

The Rolling Scoreboard and Knowing Where You Stand

Tom Rowland: it's done. What everybody's talking about is, like, you know, how the momentum of what you've got going on there. I wonder, like, as as anglers that were the founders of this and, like, you know, I know how it is when you're at one of those tournaments and you're you're sitting up there, you know, in the hotel room. You're talking about you know, probably have lots of conversations about what's going on, what's going well, what could change. What were the first couple of things that that you and Gary and, you know, some of the founders were like, you know what? It would be so much better if like, what what were those first couple of things?

Shaw Grigsby: Well, the first couple of things is that we wanted it to be, where you had that rolling scoreboard. So you knew what was going on just like you knew what's going on when Tiger Woods comes up on the eighteenth green. He knows where he's sitting. When he's back there in fourteenth green, he knows where he's sitting. That's what you gotta know. I mean, you've got to know that because then you could make quality decisions. You could say, hey. I see, I I remember being in tenth place in a B.A.S.S. on Kissimmee, on Toho, and making the final day cut, tenth tenth spot. And I knew I said, man, I'm down in tenth. I I got a long way to go. I better catch a big one. So I go through and I catch a limit and a fish, and I see a big one on bed, and I and I hook her and she's a giant. She pulls her head two or three times and the hook pulls, and she goes back to the bed. I fish for her, fish for her. I go around looking. I know I need to have a six, seven pounder to win. Well, I come in. I didn't. I needed a three pounder. I went by five or six of those that I could've caught in a second and won the tournament hands down, but I don't have the knowledge to make that decision. So it's a flip of a coin. So who was the best fisherman that day? Obviously, the guy that won it, but would it have been me? Absolutely, if I'd known. But somebody else may have known and made a different decision. Sure. You don't know. But so now you have that knowledge of you're hearing what's going on. You go, oh my gosh. They're killing them, and I can't catch get a bite, so I've gotta change.

Tom Rowland: I'm obviously not doing the right thing.

Shaw Grigsby: Right. So now you can make that change Right. Where before you don't know, and all of a sudden you've taken potluck and also you come and you go, oh, man. I thought I was doing good, and I'm I'm just beat to death. Right. So that's really the the thought process is that you could have that. And then we always liked the catch and release. Let them go. Get them back in there. And and that was one of the biggest thing that why, you know, Johnny Morris likes it so much. You know, he's so big in, environmental environmental issues and things like that and and being able to turn that fish loose.

Tom Rowland: Where you caught him?

Shaw Grigsby: Yeah. Right there. You're not doing any damage anywhere. You just catch and let him go.

Catch and Release, Tagging Studies, and Fish Behavior

Tom Rowland: Yeah. It's an interesting thing. Like, I mean, bass fishing is responsible for the catch and release movement. Live. I mean, that's where it came from. Right? Like, catch and release of all kinds started with bass fishing, like, in that term. And I think Johnny Morris was a big part of catch and release. Oh, that's catchy. Okay. Let's use that. Catch and release. Okay. But I always thought that and we see the same thing with the bonefish. Like, you have these bonefish tournaments in these places, like in downtown Islamorada, and you would have the best guides with the best anglers going out all over the place and then bringing the most dominant, most aggressive fish back to the same place for twenty years in a row. And it I believe that that was like an artificial stocking program, and the downtown bonefish downtown Islamorada bonefish was basically an an angler induced artificial stocking program of the biggest, most aggressive fish being brought back to the same place for a long period of time, and some of those are gonna stick around.

Shaw Grigsby: Absolutely.

Tom Rowland: And they did. And that was the best bonefishing in the world. So that's an example of how it could really be great, I guess. But where you know, they're those big fish are not where they once were. So I don't know how that affects the the thing. It doesn't really matter because the cold front of 2010, you know, really hurt them a a lot. But when you're doing this in these lakes and you're you're having the best anglers in the world going out, catching five fish each, and there's a 100 anglers, and that's that's 500 of the biggest, most aggressive bass in the lake all being released at the same place. I don't know. Does that have an effect on them? Yeah. Who knows?

Shaw Grigsby: We did some, we did some radio telemetry and have done that in a few situations. It's pretty cool to see that in tagging tagging studies that, some of the fish and it's just real cool to see how fish are so individualistic. But some of them, they get let go and they go, just like you said, I'm ready to go. Dude, this is pretty good. Yeah. I got food. I got nice This

Tom Rowland: looks unhappy.

Shaw Grigsby: I'll just stay right here. Others, they'll make a twenty, thirty, 40 mile hike right back

Tom Rowland: to where they were. Really?

Shaw Grigsby: They find their way all the way back. This is my home. This is where I wanna be. It's the craziest thing

Tom Rowland: in the world. The craziest thing to think that with all the jarring around in the live well and running back and forth and that they would have the the sense of direction to know where that was. Like a salmon, I guess. Well, salmon could do that.

Shaw Grigsby: We know so little. You know? We think we know, but we know so little if you really, you know, open up peel back the the onion, so to speak, open it up and look what's in there. It's really cool.

Two-Minute Penalties and Mike Iaconelli Stories

Tom Rowland: Yeah. What about the the rule about the bass can't touch the boat?

Shaw Grigsby: That's that's another just conservation thing. You don't wanna body slam them, you know, throwing them in and, poof, drop them in. The slime coat's left on there, and then they can develop, you know, sores and and they get, you know, infections and stuff like that. So we're just trying to keep it, you know, doing everything you can to to respect your fish that you catch and and, not beat them up and then not you don't What

Tom Rowland: happens if they do touch the boat?

Shaw Grigsby: You get a two minute penalty. Two minute. Two minute.

Tom Rowland: So it's all based on time. So you could just have to you just have to sit there or you have to stop early?

Shaw Grigsby: You you have to sit to sit there. So, one of my favorite was Mike Iaconelli. I love him. But we also have a release a release deal, so you have to release it below the gunnel. So Mike hooks up on a crankbait, and he reels it in, reels it in. It's a little guy, so he knows it's little itty bitty. You know? So he brings it up, and he picks it up like that while it drops off and, boom, hits the deck. Two minute landing violation. And he's like, oh, doggone. He picks up. He pitches it two more minutes. So they they type it in and he's just gotta sit there and he's just fuming it. And I'm like, what's funny is that?

Tom Rowland: That's a guy that can't sit still anyway. He can't sit still anyway. I had him on my podcast, and and he's moving all the time. I love it. Awesome. I love that guy. That guy is

Shaw Grigsby: so first off, he's smart as can be, but he's he's extremely good angler. He's an extremely good marketing person. I've seen him in business meetings with CEOs and all, and he is outstanding. Then I remember going to a Bass University. He and I flew in together. We show up. I think it was in Springfield. We go to the motel. We check-in. There's, like, a nine year old kid there. He wanted our autograph. So I signed his autograph. Mike signs his autograph. And, Mike talked to him a second while I go in up the room. I do whatever. I get all unpacked and do some things and watch the TV. I would go down because I wanted to get something. I left something, and I went down to the counter to get it. Mike's still down there. It's, like, an hour and a half later. Still down there talking to that kid. That's Mike Iaconelli. Yeah. That's the side you don't don't normally Yeah. His dedication to his fans and and kids is outstanding.

Tom Rowland: I saw that in him. And I I had a wonderful, experience with him because I I only know him from TV. I don't I don't know that he has any idea who I was or anything. And, his manager guy that's with him, I had been in touch with him and asked him to be on the podcast, but I never could get in touch with Mike or whatever. And, you know, he's been doing that thing the last couple years where he's wearing those disguises around ICAST, and it's really kinda funny. Right? Like, what he's doing. Like, he'd wear a wig one day, and and he's, like, trying to I don't I don't know exactly what all it's about, but it's pretty funny what he's doing. And so he's got this mustache on, and it's like this this this twirly mustache, and it's real big. And and and he's got this thing on, and he went to breakfast. And and his manager walked by and saw me sitting there. And he goes in there, and he goes, hey. Tom Rowland's right out there. So Mike gets up, comes right out there. He's like, hey. He shakes my hand, and he's like, Mike Iaconelli. He goes, I I know that you had been in contact, and you wanted to, have me on the podcast. And I wanna say right now, I'd be honored to do it. And I'm looking at him, and he's got this silly mustache on. And he's like I'm like, oh, you know about my podcast? And he goes, of course, I know about your and it hits him. And he's like, I've got this stupid mustache on. And it was so funny because he was just trying so hard and then he just realized he's like, I've got this stupid mustache on the whole time I'm talking. And he ripped the thing off. And and, anyway, he came up, and we had just a great great conversation. And he's, he's a really good dude.

Why the Best Anglers Joined MLF

Tom Rowland: So did it, like, did it surprise you at all, the influx of of the quality of anglers that came to MLF so quickly?

Shaw Grigsby: No. I I it's they had been and I won't say it's you know, they had they had reached their limit at at B.A.S.S., and they really wanted to make a difference. I was so impressed at some of these young anglers that would go, this is what we need for the future. You know, I I'm starting in the sport. You know, I'm in it two years, three years down the road, and I'm looking 20. That's awesome because most of the anglers look right here. What's in it for me right now? And if it didn't, I don't wanna have anything to do with it. I could not believe that we got 80 guys to go. We're in it. We know. We see it. We feel what you're doing. We know what you're doing. We know it's the right thing for the sport. And that's the biggest thing that I see is that there's enough people that don't see that that it's a little disturbing. Because for the sport to really grow and do it, you need those anglers to do this, and you need this sport to be controlled by the anglers, not by somebody that's a for profit money. This is what makes the decision. You know, we wanna make the decisions on the sport. What's the best for the sport? Might not be the best for me. In fact, for me personally, this is probably not the best choice. I'm a better five fish guy than I am a 10 or 20 fish guy, but it's still the best fishing I've ever done. I've never worked harder in my life and fished more intense, and and it's just keys you up. It's like what you live for. I mean, you'd live for that those moments out there. And so, so it might not be the best for me, but it's the best for the sport. That's what I look at. I'm a team guy. I want this sport to go places. I want this sport to be what we know it is. It's the greatest sport in the world, fishing is. You can fish when you're two years old. You can fish when you're 90 years old. I don't know if you know Glen Lau. Glen Lau, one of the world famous, you know, guys that do all the underwater and all that. Homer Circle was a writer for fifty something years. Did, he'd do whole art whole magazines, you know, by himself. He was a phenomenal writer and great gentleman when he was, you know, getting way up in age. I don't know if he's 80 or whatever. He could hardly walk. Glen Lau would pick him up at the house, pick him up, put him in the boat, and they go fishing. You go fishing till your dying day and you fish when you're a kid and you can love it all through life. You can take it to just be a relaxing afternoon on the water. You can take it to just learn about the environment and the outdoors, or you can take it to the professional level where you're out there competing. And and it's just the most magnificent sport because you don't have to be six six, two thirty. You know? You don't have to be, you know, this this superhuman to to play. Your your playing time is forever. It's lifetime. And the knowledge you gain, everything from from the you're relying on yourself to make decisions and all the the benefits that you can get from being outdoors is intense, amazing. I I don't think there's another sport like it to process all the variables we do. There's no other sport like that that you have to figure all this stuff out. And, so for me, it's the greatest thing out there, and I want everybody to know it. And I want this thing to be the biggest and baddest you know, you can see these guys. A lot of the guys, when they're done playing professional football, they're coming to be a, you know, a a professional bass fisherman. When they're finished doing their professional sport, whatever it is, they say, I'm coming to fish. Mhmm. They love it.

Tom Rowland: Well, you see a lot of that, like, a lot of the, the clients that I would have on my boat every single day. I could tell. I was like, you know, that guy's got a athletic build. Like, you start talking to him, and I would ask them, like, well, you know, what's your background? What's your what's your athletic background or whatever? Just because I'm interested in that. And there were a remarkable number of people that were, wrestlers Yeah. Were were really into it. And I always thought that was kind of interesting because wrestling is physical chess. It's as you get to a high level at at a low level, it's just brute strength. At a high level, it gets to be, like, a guy that's not as good as someone else can beat that person by using that person's strengths against them. And then there's, like, this thinking two or three moves ahead, and it's physical chess. Fishing is chess. It really is. And tournament fishing can really be chess. And especially, like, what you're talking about now as you know this information that was not available to you before, it becomes even more of a game of chess. Right. Like, before, you're kinda thinking it's a game of chess. But if you don't know what the other guy's move is, then how is how can you make a move that makes any sense?

Shaw Grigsby: Right.

The FLW Acquisition and the Path to the Top

Tom Rowland: And that's a that's a interesting thing. Well, how did it how did it make sense for the acquisition of FLW?

Shaw Grigsby: Oh, that's that was a that was a beautiful thing to happen. So for FLW, it has the best ground game out there. So the from the the BFLs, which are the weekend anglers out there, you know, fishing and and going at it every weekend, having a regular job and then going fishing, they had the best. The FLW has the best. And their Costa series was unbelievable, which is the next step up would be like on the B.A.S.S., the opens. And then they had the FLW tour, which is the professional level. So to take, Major League Fishing and Bass Pro Tour, we had to have a feeder system because we're losing 10 guys after the after the third year. So 2021, at the 2021, we got 10 new guys coming in. Those 10 bottom guys drop out, go back to the tour, and and work their way try to work their way back in. And so to have a feeder system, we needed that. We needed that for, for people to be able to say, hey. I can make it into this system now. So I could fish the weekend. I can go up to the Costa, and then I go to the tour and make it all the way into into the major of the major leagues. So you're going to the Bass Pro Tour. And see, the Bass Pro Tour isn't just the tour. It's got those eight tournaments. But then every two tournaments of those eight, you can qualify for the cup, which is the MLF. So that's another tournament that you fish, which is still big money. So you're talking you've got great payouts on the eight, then you got four cups, great payouts here. You got a championship, the REDCREST, great payouts there. So it's a it's a whole lifestyle of all of a sudden you make a living and you're not forking out this huge amount of money for entry fees. So having that avenue for an everyday angler, somebody that's fishing to be able to work his way in and go all the way to the top is really what we were looking for. And that that just made perfect sense. They already had it established. We could've done it too, but why? Yeah. You you got it going, man. You got the best thing going.

Tom Rowland: So Plus you get all their I mean, you got FLW fans, and you got people that are that are they're they're bought in. Right. Now they're bought into the to the MLF too. That's really cool.

Luck, Preparation, and the 1% Advantage

Tom Rowland: One thing I wanted to ask you. I remember we had a couple conversations, a long time ago about your feelings on luck. What do you think about luck?

Shaw Grigsby: You know and, you know, you've heard the thing. You know, luck is where opportunity preparation come together. So that's kind of a typical definition. Luck is something that happens, and it will not be luck if you're not prepared. It'll be not it's not luck if you if you are not ready for it and and it passes you by and you make mistakes and it's gone. So, you know, to capitalize on a situation, you know, you have to work hard every day. You have to be prepared. You have to make sure that every i is dotted and every t is crossed and every hook is sharp and every knot is perfect and and every lure is just right and your rods are right, your guides are right, and that you're prepared and and your mind is with that lure when you make that cast, that I'm there and I'm working that, and I'm not off thinking of, damn, did I leave the did I leave the coffee pot on this morning? You know, you you you wanna be here. You wanna be focused. And so, luck still happens, but if you're not prepared for it, it it doesn't it doesn't happen for you. So you gotta be prepared for it. And and, and I just think that you can better your chances if if you're working really hard. And I know somebody's taking full advantage of that. Right? Right. Well If you work your tail off Well,

Tom Rowland: you know,

Shaw Grigsby: then they can call it luck, but it's really, really hard work.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. It's been that that same kind of thing was once explained to me by a a great guy, Tim Hoover. And I asked him about he would beat me in every tournament. Every freaking tournament, he'd win. And I just couldn't understand it. And so, I mean, I'm working real hard and doing all the the right things, I think. And so finally, I got up the courage just to go ask him. And just like any other successful person, when you ask him, he was like, sure. I'll tell you. He's like, I'm I'm not any better than you are probably. He said, but I make sure that I get a 1% advantage everywhere I can. And I said, what do you mean by that? He goes, well, I do the research to find out what the best hook is, and I make sure that it's perfectly sharp. Right.

Shaw Grigsby: And I

Tom Rowland: have a 1% advantage right there. And I make the I do the research to figure out how to keep the the bait and the bait well so that it'll never die and it'll always be perfect. And and I know where to buy it, and I know how to have it be perfect. My bait's perfect. That's a 1% advantage. Sometimes that's 10% advantage, but it's a 1% advantage. And he said, you know, I make sure that my my engine, you know, before tournament Perfect. I've I've tuned up the engine and and it's I've I've maintained my stuff. I make sure that my my wheel bearings are are are taken care of. Those are one percent advantages. I make sure that when I wake up in the morning, then I've got extra this and extra that and advantage on you right now.

Shaw Grigsby: That's right.

Tom Rowland: And he said, and I've got a 30% advantage on most of the people here, and I've got a 60 advantage on the other ones. And you wonder why I win? He's like he's like, and that's kinda what you're talking about. Like

Shaw Grigsby: It is. It's

Tom Rowland: there might be luck. Like, all of a sudden, the sun comes out just as a tarpon swims right in front of you. But if you're sitting down eating a sandwich, it swims right on by.

Shaw Grigsby: That's right.

Tom Rowland: But if you or you're you're you're tying on a rusty old hook, it might break. And it's kinda the same thing.

Shaw Grigsby: But check your knot, set the hook on like it, and there you go. Right. Yep.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. And he was just he it made a it made a big, big impact on me that too. It's like, okay. So I'm not just gonna tie the same knot every time. I'm gonna go home. I'm gonna practice these knots. I'm gonna test them on a scale. I'm going to, you know, figure out which one's the best with which particular brand of monofilament, and then I'm gonna know all these different things, and that's gonna be my 1% advantage. And then I'm gonna pick up a one percent advantage over here. Then I'm gonna sleep a little more than I would, and that's gonna be a 1% advantage. Then I'm gonna make sure that I eat a good breakfast. That's gonna be a 1% advantage. And then you go in and you're like, I got a 15% advantage over most people here. And so now you've leveled the field to where now you're just competing against one or people.

Shaw Grigsby: It's awesome. Yeah. That is awesome. Yeah. Great. Total truth right there. I remember so when I started fishing, that buddy, Jerry and I, we'd fish as a team buddy tournaments. And, we'd show up to fish a mass tournament, and we were there to fish. We're kids. We love fishing. We want to catch them. Right? Most of the guys are there to drink beer, taste, swim, and they come being drunk or whatever. And we're, like, out there just and that's how we could do it. We had that advantage.

Tom Rowland: 50% advantage in that tournament.

Shaw Grigsby: Percent over the so I remember one though. I had this great guy. I loved him dearly. And, we were looking for him as a championship day. We're looking for him and, you know, Jerry and I, they're like ready to go. And they're going, where

Tom Rowland: where is it? Where's so and so?

Shaw Grigsby: And I don't mention his name. But, anyway, he said, well, there's his truck. And they opened the door and he fell out of the truck. Drunk on his truck. Just a drunk as Cooter Brown, you know, and they so they they, packed him. They're worried that they got him to the ramp and all that, and he got in his boat, and and we all took off. Well, about 01:00 in the afternoon, they see his boat floating across this lake, and they're like, oh my gosh. He's dead. They went over there. He's still laid out there, hadn't fished a lick. He's just been sleeping in his boat. He got up and, like, they're like, are you okay? You okay? He said, I'm fine. He got up. And from one like, 01:30 to 03:30, he beat us like a drum in one hole. Oh, man.

Tom Rowland: That's terrible.

Shaw Grigsby: That's like but that was him. He was he was awesome.

Tom Rowland: Where where was his advantage? I guess he wasn't worried about No. His advantage came from somewhere else.

Shaw Grigsby: He was really, really, really good. He was a great angler and just a funny human being, man. I love that guy. So he's passed, and he's he's wonder. Doug Gilley. God, what a wonderful guy. You just wanna hug him every time.

Coaching the Next Generation and a Thank You to a Mentor

Tom Rowland: Well, Shaw, what what gets you the most excited right now?

Shaw Grigsby: I'm I'm excited about, the next level on the on the Bass Pro Tour, and I'm excited about my new new job as a coach. I think that's neat. I've always loved to teach, and I'd like to make a difference in some kids' lives, you know, as they as they go up. And you know how much passion we have for fishing. And, hopefully, I can instill some of that and and help them navigate through the the little things they need to navigate through. And maybe maybe who knows? We should see a, you know, a really incredible angler come along in the next few years.

Tom Rowland: Well, I'm sure that I'm sure that you will. Well, I wanna thank you for for spending this time with me and, catching up a little bit. We've got a lot of we've got a lot of good stories that we didn't even go over on this podcast, but, we'll do it again. But mostly, you know, I told you I've told you and I've told a lot of other people, you really you really meant more to me than I think that you'll ever know. I mean Oh,

Shaw Grigsby: I think.

Tom Rowland: You you you you may have an idea, but the things that you told me, the support that you gave us I mean, one one quick story is that I called you. I said, I think we wanna do a TV show. And you said immediately, hey, I'll give you my crew. Right? Like, I mean, you said, great. I'll give you my crew. Do you know how much that cut that cut so much of that process off? Okay. I gotta find a cameraman. Who's a cameraman? How much do I pay him? What do I do? All of this stuff. You just said, look. I'll give you my crew. Good. You're gonna be great at it. So you gave me confidence, and you gave me the resources. That's huge. And and coming from from somebody that had done it a long a long time, that was that was huge. But you helped me with sponsors. You helped me in so many different ways. And you did it without ever asking anything in return. And it was just completely unexpected for me because I figured the guy that's gonna help me is probably gonna be a a guy similar to me, like a saltwater guy. And you come into my life blind, and we don't know each other from Adam, and you just you just helped. And you continued helping, and you've continued helping all the way up to to now. And I know that you're gonna continue helping all these kids, but just wanted to thank you and honor you for for doing that, really.

Shaw Grigsby: Thank you.

Tom Rowland: Because you've you've been a huge impact on both Rich and I's life, and and, I'd probably be still just pushing the boat along if it if if you hadn't have done

Shaw Grigsby: those things. If you were doing that, you'd still be doing that.

Tom Rowland: I know. I and and there's that.

Shaw Grigsby: But you have done very well with what you've done. And I tell you, it's it's been fun watching it come along. Absolutely.

Tom Rowland: Thank you. Thank you very much. And it's, it's an honor to have a good friend like you. Alright, buddy. Thank you, my friend. Thank you.