Tom Rowland Podcast Episode 1013 is a conversation with breath and stress-resilience coach Taylor Somerville of Symmetry, who returns a few years later to talk about the corporate breathwork he now teaches, how cold a plunge actually needs to be, using CO2 and O2 breath-hold tables to stay calm under pressure, a ten-minute morning movement practice that took away his back pain, and a practical foundation for sleeping better.
Listen now: Apple Podcasts · Spotify · or press play in the YouTube player on this page to watch.
Taylor Somerville is a breath and stress-resilience coach and the founder of Symmetry, based in Memphis. He works with individuals and corporate teams on breathwork, heat and cold exposure, and sleep, both in his studio and virtually with clients as far away as Australia. His focus is teaching people to use their breath to manage stress, perform better, and recover.
Taylor runs corporate teams through a three-session arc he calls Reset, Recharge, and Align. The work reframes stress as something neutral that can be used for growth rather than only endured, teaches slow diaphragmatic and exhale-focused breathing, and gives employees simple tools to use in transitions throughout the day so they do not carry stress from home into work or back again.
CO2 and O2 tables are freediving-style breath-hold protocols Taylor adapts for mental resilience rather than diving. CO2 tables keep the breath hold steady while shrinking the rest between holds, training tolerance to air hunger. O2 tables keep the rest steady while lengthening the hold, training tolerance to lower oxygen. Taylor uses them to teach clients to relax into stress instead of fighting it.
Taylor has moved away from the coldest possible water. He now prefers the mid-forties for himself rather than the thirty-something-degree troughs and ice barrels he also keeps, and he caps client sessions at around five minutes. He notes that tolerance builds quickly day over day, and that much of the benefit is mental rather than purely physical.
Taylor does a roughly ten-to-twelve-minute, seven-exercise movement and breath practice from Mike Holland that combines twisting, hip hinging, shaking, and tapping. He pairs it with rapid in-and-out nasal fire breathing. He credits the twisting movement and spinal focus with relieving back pain he had dealt with on and off since 2017.
Taylor builds the foundation first: cut screens at least thirty minutes before bed, keep the room dark and cool, avoid eating right before sleep, and get ten to fifteen minutes of early-morning sunlight to set the circadian rhythm. He suggests no caffeine after about two in the afternoon, ideally noon, and treating sleep trackers as an awareness tool rather than a verdict on the day.
Taylor's website is symmetry.live and his Instagram is @symmetry.live. He works with clients one-on-one from his Memphis studio and virtually, and he sends a weekly email newsletter. The video version of this episode is embedded on this page.
Taylor and I first talked a few years ago, back when he was deep into ice, sauna, breath work, and the pool side of XPT. I do most of those same things myself, so I have always been curious where he would land once he had been at it for a while longer. I have noticed in my own life that I keep doing more of what works for me and less of the rest, and I wanted to hear where Taylor had gone with that. He is also the reason a lot of people in my world found Mike Holland, since I connected the two of them, and I wanted to hear how that turned out.
Press play in the YouTube player on this page to hear the whole conversation in his own words.
Taylor now does a lot of work inside companies, and the way he frames it is the part I keep thinking about. He does not tell people to make stress disappear, because he says that is a false narrative. He teaches them that stress just is, and that it can either be used to grow or be allowed to crush you. He walks through a human function curve, a few simple breathing tools, and the muscle-testing demonstration he uses to create buy-in with a room full of skeptics. It is worth hearing him lay it out.
I expected Taylor to be the guy pushing for the coldest water and the longest time. He is not, at least not anymore. He keeps barrels and troughs in the thirties, but for himself he warms the water up into the mid-forties and has gotten less dogmatic about the whole thing. He still caps his clients at around five minutes, even the ones who want to go longer. The reasons he gives for backing off the extremes are the interesting part, and he explains them in the episode.
This was the section I had never heard anyone teach quite the way Taylor does. He uses freediving-style CO2 and O2 tables, but nobody he works with is diving. He uses them as mental resilience training for the type-A, go-go-go crowd, teaching them to ride the wave of air hunger instead of fighting it. He describes how he coaches a first-timer through a max hold and how the numbers climb fast once tension leaves the body. Listen to that part of the episode.
Taylor had nerve pain running down his leg and had been getting dry needled for years. He started a short morning practice from Mike Holland at the beginning of the year, did it almost every day, and has not needed to get needled in three months. It is about ten to twelve minutes, seven exercises, and he layers his own fire breathing on top of it. He has a theory about why the twisting and the spinal focus did what years of other work did not. He explains it in the conversation.
When Taylor talks about sleep, he starts with the foundation instead of the gadgets. He goes through the levers that move the most: light, temperature, movement, and digestion. He gets specific about early-morning sunlight, cutting screens before bed, where caffeine fits in the day, and why he treats a sleep score as awareness rather than a verdict. He also explains the sleep diary he has clients keep for a week. The full breakdown is in the episode.
Listen to the full conversation: Apple Podcasts · Spotify · or watch in the YouTube player on this page.
What stays with me from talking to Taylor again is how much of this comes back to simple things done on purpose. None of it is new. The breathing, the cold, the movement, the sleep habits have all been around forever. What he has done is boil them down to a handful of tools a person can actually use and feel a difference from quickly.
The line I keep repeating to my own workout group is his: stress plus rest equals growth. Most of us are good at the stress and bad at the rest, and Taylor's whole approach is about giving you small, repeatable ways to put the rest back in.
Press play in the player on this page, or grab Episode 1013 on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.
Taylor Somerville · Symmetry · Mike Holland · Wim Hof · Andrew Huberman · Laird Hamilton · XPT · James DiNicolantonio · Memphis, Tennessee
Taylor Somerville is the founder of Symmetry, a breath and stress-resilience practice based in Memphis. He coaches individuals and corporate teams on breathwork, heat and cold exposure, and sleep, working both from his studio and virtually with clients around the world. His approach blends slow diaphragmatic and exhale-focused breathing, freediving-style breath-hold tables for mental resilience, daily movement, and a practical sleep foundation. He can be found at symmetry.live and on Instagram at @symmetry.live.
Tom Rowland Podcast — Episode 1013: Taylor Somerville
In this episode: breathwork that reframes stress instead of chasing it away, cold plunges and the case for the mind over the body, free-diving CO2 and O2 tables to ground type-A nervous systems, building a real sleep foundation, and the truth about caffeine’s half-life — in the exact words spoken.
Taylor Somerville: I'm Taylor Somerville and this is the Tom Rowland Podcast.
Tom Rowland: Okay. All right. Cool. Taylor, what's up, man?
Taylor Somerville: just living life. You know, I've got a new baby around here, so all sorts of changes in my neighborhood. What'd say? Six weeks old.
Tom Rowland: Yeah. Do ya? How old? How old's your baby? How old is your baby? boy, that is a new baby. Is this a little girl or a little boy?
Taylor Somerville: So I've got a little boy. So I've got a two and a half year old girl and then a six week old little boy as a 47 year old dad.
Tom Rowland: Okay. All right. Yeah. Well, good thing you're in good shape. I have a one-year-old grandson these days. Just turned one. Yeah, it's fantastic. It's really something to be back in the parenting kind of, you feel like you get rusty with babies and stuff, and you definitely do, but a lot of it comes back.
Taylor Somerville: Yeah, you know. that's awesome. Congrats. Ha ha!
Tom Rowland: But there is a reason why young people have babies. Yeah, yeah, I think kinda. I mean, I can tell, yeah, well, I can change a diaper pretty well, although some of my other granddad friends don't change diapers. I don't seem to mind it too bad. You know? But you're back in the war time of babies. mean, man, two and a half and a six week old? Yeah, you're...
Taylor Somerville: It's like riding a bike, right? And you get the fun part of it now. Yeah, it's not too much. That's right.
Tom Rowland: You're in it.
Taylor Somerville: Little sleep, but so I'm not training for any big crazy events these days. It's just training for life and keeping up with those two at this point.
Tom Rowland: So what about your business? Are you still doing the same thing?
Taylor Somerville: yeah, still doing the same thing. You know, symmetry, still got the breath focused. We've expanded into what we're doing. We do a lot more work on the corporate side where we have three session groups who will come in. We focus on reset, recharge, and align. So we're focusing on stress, teaching about stress, reframing. employees and teams thought processes around stress so they can perform better, they can communicate better, and feel better as they're doing it. So we'll, you know, tend to come in, teach a little bit, principles focused, so they have something to take away with it, and we'll put them through a breath session, give them some tools and things to work on. in between each month. And then we come back, we do a session that tends to focus on sleep because everybody struggles in that area as a recharge. And we do a focus on alignment, which is really the mindset and kind of the stories we tell ourselves, whether it is about the work we're doing or about the teams we're on. So really try to focus on creating better teams and leaders when we're going into companies. So that's been one of our big focuses in the last year that we've been doing.
Tom Rowland: Wow. That's super cool. So last time we were talking, you were doing a lot with ice, with the sauna, with the breath work, movement, XPT. So of those things, I mean, I know we just talked about some of the changes that you have, but of those things, what have you kept? What have you doubled down on? What have you changed? Has anything changed from the last time? Because I know I do all of those things too, except the XPT. I don't have a pool.
Taylor Somerville: Yeah.
Tom Rowland: And I noticed that over the years I do more of some less of others kind of figure out what's working for me. And then I just do more of that and less of other things. I'm just kind of wondering where you, where you've gone in the last, it's been like three or four years since you've been on the podcast, probably at least.
Taylor Somerville: Yeah, personally, I'm still, you know, still do the breath work, some form of breath work every day. You know, now not as much as seated session. It's kind of, kind of get it in when I can. Could be walking, could be movement. Honestly, you connected me with a... Mike, what's his Mike Holland? Isn't that his name? Michael Holland? Think who you connect me with? Yeah, so I've been doing one of his program practices. It's like a 10 minute movement breath practice. I started doing that at the beginning of the year and done it almost every day. And that's, that's cured some back pain I've had. So I've been sending a lot of people his way. And then I still do heat and ice run classes here doing that as well. And I would say I don't do it.
Tom Rowland: Mike Holland, yeah, man. Yeah. Me too. That's cool.
Taylor Somerville: as intensely personally as like the three rounds. More of now I'm gonna get hot, I'm gonna get cold. And that's all I'm really focused on. The pool, I will, know, just getting warmed up. So I'll start doing more of it on my own. Not gonna be teaching any more of those classes just because it's a lot of work.
Tom Rowland: Mm-hmm.
Taylor Somerville: and it's very hard to scale or do much with it. So kind of cutting, teaching those classes out, but I'll still do some at my house personally.
Tom Rowland: Yeah. Yeah, that's cool. So with the breath work that you're teaching at, like tell me what you're teaching people in a corporate setting because you're coming across all different kinds of people under many different stress levels and under many different athletic levels and experience levels. Probably have some that are big time yoga people that know about breathing and then you probably have other people that have never even thought about it one time in their life. It's just a natural thing that you do. They don't realize that
Taylor Somerville: Yeah.
Tom Rowland: that the way that you breathe can affect your entire life. It can affect everything. So what are you teaching in corporate worlds?
Taylor Somerville: Yeah. That's well, for one, we like to teach about stress, kind of reframing their mindset for one that it's not good or bad, that it just is. So the fact that you're gonna ever get your stress to go away or get rid of it, it's just, it's a false narrative that people try to say. it's understanding that, you know, it can be good. We can use it to grow or we can just let it crush us. And one of the ways we can use it to grow, we have a couple of graphs and curves, one the things we call a human function curve that was created by a cardiologist, Dr. Nelson. the eighties and it kind of shows where you are on this continuum of stress. And when you reach this breaking point, it kind of goes up and kind of curves over it. You hit this burnout point, but we can use tools like the breath to kind of keep us where we're just pushing outside of our comfort zone of stress and then dialing it back in. So we put people through a session after we teach them stuff about 10, 15 minutes, and we're using relatively basic type of techniques, just slow, more slow diaphragmatic. breathing, then we usually leave them with something they can do before meeting, whether it's like triangle breathing, or you're breathing in for five, pausing for five, out for five, some exhale focused breathing to bring them down after, like in the moment stress, we kind of call SOS, where they are really focused on slowing their exhale down after they get control. And then usually something for sleep. So we like to give them three things they can take home with and use whenever. them, you know, we let them experience it, want them to know what it feels like. We do also a couple of, there's some muscle testing things where you can do people where you just change their breathing and it changes kind of their their body's response pretty quickly and that usually creates some buy-in with groups. So we like to do that and then we like to tell them, all right, use these things as you start out just in transitions as you're going through your day. So after a meeting, on your way home, on your way to work when you get to the office so you can not bring everything from home into the office and then not take everything from the office into home so you can kind of have these break points where you can focus on the people around you what you're what you really need to deal with as opposed to kind of letting everything fester and that kind of what that chronic aspect of stress really build up. So those are the big areas that we like to focus there. And you're right, most, a lot of people have no idea, have never heard of it. We're working with all types of people, you know, luckily now in the last, you know, five years since COVID, people are starting to hear more of it. So we create that buy-in and give them things that they can use and usually get great feedback on, from the employees on how they're dealing with that. then even with some of those groups, like we work with a lot of times we're like specific So whether it's a sales team or a branch office for a company, then we might even bring them in and put them through some more intense breath work and heat and ice and put them in the saunas and ice baths and stuff like that, creating more of connection and team building and more relationship building with those groups as well.
Tom Rowland: Heh! Yeah, that's cool. That team building, that is a good, I mean, if you get in an ice bath and watch all the rest of your teammates get in the ice bath too, you're definitely gonna come away with a bonding experience there, especially when people haven't done it much. you know, I mean, some people are gonna be able, if you don't do it, and sometimes, like, I keep a Yeti 350 ready most of the time with ice and water, but I gotta say,
Taylor Somerville: Mm-hmm.
Tom Rowland: Lately, I've kind of gotten away from it. I stayed with a sauna a lot. I do the sauna almost every day But for whatever reason I've kind of gotten away from the ice a little bit and so when I decide that it's time to go back to it I'm such a wimp at the beginning like I can only stay in there for a very short amount of time at the very beginning But then the next day it's more and the next day it's more and then you're right back to where you were But I mean have you if you've never done that before You don't realize that there's going to be this pretty quick progression to where you can sit in it for five or 10 minutes without too much trouble. But in the first 30 seconds, even for somebody that has done it a lot, if you're away from it for a month or something, it's hard to, I mean, you got to really think about it to stay in there for a while. And it doesn't feel good. It hurts.
Taylor Somerville: Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's hard. It hurts and there's nothing in your body that says, this is a great idea or mine. So you're stepping in there and it's an immediate stress response and you can learn how to take, use your breath to control how you're feeling in there and slow it down. You know, one of the things I've noticed personally after doing it for as long as I have, I don't really like to get in it as cold as I used to.
Tom Rowland: Right. Right.
Taylor Somerville: if it's getting older or what, but I actually will kind of warm it up some a little bit for myself and not as dogmatic. Well, I have a circulating plunge, which will be in the forties. And then I have some troughs and ice barrels and those are very, you know, we're talking 30 something degrees and they can be very cold. just, I prefer.
Tom Rowland: huh. So what do you, how cold is it that you get in now? How cold do you think you get in now? Yeah. Yes, that's what I do.
Taylor Somerville: mid forties, you know, and I've got some people who've been coming to me for years and they want to get into it as cold as possible and staying as long as possible. Still like, all right, we'll keep you in for five minutes. I'm not letting you go past that, but, you know, that's about it. Yeah.
Tom Rowland: Yeah, but see they're acclimated to it, Like, yeah, but I mean, but they're acclimated to it and they kind of crave it after a while. But if you're away from it for a while, it's hard to get back in there. But I mean, even if you do it for a short period of time and then you do it the next day afterwards, you find you go way longer on the second day. But I do find that it's...
Taylor Somerville: yeah.
Tom Rowland: It's good for so many different things. I mean, certainly the joints, the inflammation throughout the body, but more, I think, for a breathing exercise and a mind. You know, I do it almost more for my mind than I am for my body in as far as the ice goes. And I don't know, I know a lot of other people that kind of feel like that too. As far as the intense breathing, did you see that Mike Holland?
Taylor Somerville: Yeah. 100 % believer in that.
Tom Rowland: did tour of california with wim hoff did you see that
Taylor Somerville: Yeah, I saw that. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I did.
Tom Rowland: that was pretty cool i wonder are you still doing the wim hoff breathing is that part of your protocol
Taylor Somerville: Not very often. I just, that can be a lot. And I find that after people do it for too long, it can be somewhat dysregulating to the nervous system, especially the type A high performers that, you know, it can kind of get you a little, it can be too much. So usually we use some of that just because it creates that feeling. And it's not for everybody, you know, it's just one method of many. And there's, know, and places to use it. But personally, I rare, I mean, it's been a while since I've since I've used that type of technique.
Tom Rowland: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I still do it regularly. I find it again for the mind almost more so than the body like I Feel like the first time I ever did it I don't know that probably told you this last time but I adult I had heard like all these benefits of meditation like you know, you can kind of go to where you get no thought and you're trying to kind of Not have a thought right just let the thoughts go and if they come in just let them go
Taylor Somerville: Mm-hmm.
Tom Rowland: And honestly, just doing meditation, I had a hard time getting there. I got a lot of things on my mind, I guess. And I'd start thinking about what I'm going to have for dinner or what I ate for breakfast or something like that. And I'm like letting it go. then, I don't know, I just never quite got to the place that I read about. And I'm like, yeah, I want to experience that. That's what I would like to do. And I see that that's the destination. And that's where I'm trying to go. But honestly, just sitting there was hard for me. And then when I did that Wim Hof breathing the first time, I was like, wow, there it is. That's, that was the thought that I had afterwards. I was like, that's what, that's what I've been reading about. That's the experience that, that other people are getting when they're just sitting still. And I got it through that intense breathing. And it was very beneficial. It was very beneficial, even just for 30 seconds or a minute to just kind of.
Taylor Somerville: It'll drop you in.
Tom Rowland: feel that, have no thought and you're just kind of like just there and somehow for that short period of time the rest of the day is somehow different because you achieved that I don't know if it's an achievement you experienced that you experienced that no thought that meditation that that calm mind and if you I feel like if you can experience that once then you can you can more easily get to it throughout the day
Taylor Somerville: Mm-hmm.
Tom Rowland: or even realize, wow, things are going really fast. I'm going to calm down. Maybe the box breathing is more effective there. If you can get there once, I don't know. What do you think about that? Like, if you can kind of get there once, do you think it's?
Taylor Somerville: Yeah, it's a good way to create that experience, like you said, and drop into meditation. Now when I use it, use much more like in through the nose, out of the mouth, as opposed to the intense full on mouth breathing that he does a lot. That can just be a lot for some people. So use it more nose, mouth for that and just kind of mix it up and not do necessarily as long a holds.
Tom Rowland: Mm-hmm.
Taylor Somerville: And you know, one of the things I like to do, especially with like one-on-one clients, people I've worked with, a good bit is get to where we do things such as using free diving tables and use those to really create some mental and stress resilience and learning how to stay calm under pressure using CO2 tables as you know, learning how to just let go into that kind of stress. Cause that kind of builds up quickly as your body's like, man, I need to breathe.
Tom Rowland: Hmm, cool, tell me about that.
Taylor Somerville: and learning how to kind of stay relaxed and level. So I work with a lot of clients using those type of techniques for breath holding as opposed to like a Wim Hof. But I'll still use that on occasion too. And just like you're saying, that experience of dropping in, especially if you're just going from this, right, I want to meditate to, I can't even begin to start meditating. It gives you a good way to experience it and then go for it.
Tom Rowland: Yeah, yeah, those tables. I have this app on my phone. It's called I think it's called apnea. I'm sure they have better ones now. But this is I've had this on the phone for a long time and I'll I'll do those things. And there's two different tables, right? Like there's one that's a co2 table and then there's an O2 table or I don't know what they're called, but they're they're they're different. So can you explain the differences between the two and why you like one over the other or do you use both?
Taylor Somerville: Yep. Yep. That's right. I'll use both of them. and that's, I use that app as well. It's called stamina and, uh, at me a trainer for it. And so.
Tom Rowland: Yeah, yeah, that's it. That's what I have.
Taylor Somerville: On the CO2 tables, basically you'll be breathing for say a minute and then you'll do a breath hold of 35 seconds or you know, just something like that. And what you'll do is gradually decrease the amount of time you're recovering in between each breath hold and you'll keep your breath hold static. So by the end you might be breathing for 10 seconds and then going right back into a breath hold or five seconds. Those really affect with your CO2 air hunger tolerance.
Tom Rowland: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Taylor Somerville: that urge to breathe coming from carbon dioxide and your brains kind of triggers. Where the O2 tables, you're increasing your breath holding amount. So say I started 30 seconds, then I'll recover for a minute breathing. Then the next round I'll do 35 second hold, cover for a minute. And so you keep that recovery static while you increase the time of the hold. And that works more on lower oxygen deprivation. you're basically, when you're doing that, you will see like your pulse locks like that those numbers kind of dropping so you're actually holding you know you're dealing more with a Deprivation of oxygen I use them both and we'll combine them into kind of different what I call pyramid where you're doing a little bit of both on there You know and when I'm working with clients. I'm not trying to get anybody doing like Some people I have will do very very long, but nobody's using it for freediving so nobody's actually like out there trying to to to dive get rate distances or doing anything like that it is more of Yeah, learning – yeah, mental resiliency training is the way I kind of phrase it.
Tom Rowland: Right. You're doing it for stress and regulation, right? And so how do you coach somebody into that? Like that's kind of interesting to use those that I've never really heard of anybody using those. mean, I hear a lot about breathing techniques and lots of different box breathing and triangle breathing and different breathing techniques to to deal with stress or to, you know, deal with, I guess, I guess anxiety and stress. But I don't I haven't really heard of anyone using the dive tables or the those tables.
Taylor Somerville: Hmm.
Tom Rowland: the O2 and the CO2 tables like you're doing it. How are you coaching people into that and what are they getting out of it?
Taylor Somerville: So when I'm using those, they'll typically be about four to six weeks after working with somebody and those people are usually that. kind of type A high performer there, go, go, go. And so I want to usually ground the nervous system because they're already kind of jacked up and elevated. So we bring them down with some slower breathing, calmer breathing, just making sure, you know, their sleep's right, they're functioning properly. And then we'll start introducing those tables. And what I'll do is first off, you know, first time we're doing, we'll see, all right, what's your max breath hold? We'll do one where I'm not going to coach them through anything, see how far they can get. Then the next round I'll give them some tips and kind of coach them through how to relax into it. Letting go of tension in your body for one, letting go of just kind of thoughts in your head, telling them they can go a little further and you can see just a pretty big jump on how long you can hold your breath right out of the gate a lot of times there. And then we will use those tables as a way to, based on, know, they're typically do about three rounds of a max breath hold on an inhale, see how far they get.
Tom Rowland: Wow.
Taylor Somerville: do work on tables every week where we take 50 to 60 percent of that max and use those. And the focus is going to be how can you just not try to fight through the breath hold. And go as far as Japan, but how can you ease into it? You know kind of that Navy Seal the slowest move smoothest fast kind of just letting go into it and not pushing pushing pushing but More than anything. Can you just relax into the breath hole and then taking that all right when? Stress or anything comes up in your mind. It's not trying to fight it or push or push it's just letting go into it and kind of Riding the wave more than anything
Tom Rowland: Mm-hmm.
Taylor Somerville: And I find I started using them.
Tom Rowland: And like, do you find that that
Taylor Somerville: I was just saying, started using those personally years ago and love the way, you know, it made me feel and then kind of through different trainings that I've gone through over the years, really figuring out kind of what's going on.
Tom Rowland: Go ahead, I'm sorry, there's a little bit of a delay. So you go ahead.
Taylor Somerville: and your brain and how you can kind of relax into that and I find that people especially those you know that that type a kind of enjoy this type of training it you get a little number you can see it build and grow and If you put work into it, you can see your numbers grow pretty rapidly and then it gets to a point where all right You don't really need to go any further But it's something that's good you can come back to and use when you're feeling a little bit like you just Same way as ice, you know, kind of come back to it and use it when you need a little reset and get back into dealing with stress better.
Tom Rowland: So when you're just talk to you, well first of all, kind of, are you working with people one on one like what you're talking about? Is that like a one on one kind of thing or is more of a group?
Taylor Somerville: Yeah, that's the one-on-one thing. Yes. So, you know, I'm working with clients one-on-one. I rarely do that.
Tom Rowland: Okay, and so people have you come to their, people have you come to their house or their office or what's the situation where you're working with them?
Taylor Somerville: They will come, I have a studio here in Memphis where I'm based and so people will come here and do that, but I also do it virtually. So I use, all my work can be done virtually or in person.
Tom Rowland: that's cool. Really, that virtual has to be, that's gotta be really good. Especially during the COVID time, you could still work with people.
Taylor Somerville: Mm-hmm. That was where I started it, because I couldn't do anything else. I started teaching breath sessions online, doing group breath sessions, and then started working with people one-on-one virtually. I do a lot. It goes through kind of waves on the business front. But that is where I love doing stuff virtually, just because you can connect with people anywhere. I've had clients as far away as Australia.
Tom Rowland: Yeah, how do people like that find you?
Taylor Somerville: some of them will have just found me through, you know, somebody mentioning me online or they found me through socials. You know, back in 2020, was, you know, typically somebody just kind of mentioned me and put me out there who had, who had done my breathing techniques. And then now a lot of it's word of mouth, having the email newsletter list as well. And so people get on there and send out stuff every, send out, you know, one main email a week and then usually, you know, another one or two. So, get in class.
Tom Rowland: So I'm sure that people are already interested in how to find you. Where would they go, like people that are listening to this right now, how do they find you and do this with you?
Taylor Somerville: Yeah, website is www.symmetry.live and Instagram is at symmetry.live.
Tom Rowland: Symmetry, you spell symmetry, how do you spell it? It's not spelled.
Taylor Somerville: S Y E T R Y
Tom Rowland: okay i remember in his search for dot live
Taylor Somerville: Yep.
Tom Rowland: Dot live? OK, cool. And then you've got social also. It's under the same handle.
Taylor Somerville: That's right. Yeah, that's right.
Tom Rowland: That's cool. how was the connection with Mike? he, do you think there's ever a time that you guys can get together? I think that having you two together would be pretty awesome.
Taylor Somerville: Oh, I hope so. Yeah, I'd love to get together with him. We, you know, we talked for a while and he kind of explained his whole system and process and everything he did. And I found it fascinating. He sent me a couple of videos and then I started doing it I was like, man, yeah, what I sent it to some of my clients. Cause I had, I've had back issues, gosh, since maybe 2017 on and off. and even get some like nerve stuff that goes down my leg that I've been going to, you know, got dry needled for years. It's never nothing that's like depilitating, but just I say it's like a sensation. I can just feel it and it's just frustrating. And I started doing this and I haven't had to go get dry needled in three months from doing one of his videos.
Tom Rowland: really? Right. What do you think it is? it the twisting or the... What do you think it is about what?
Taylor Somerville: I think it's the twisting. That's what my thought is. It's the twisting and the mental visualization of like grooving the spine. Cause that's the only thing that I really feel like I've done differently. Cause I use some of those movements, the shaking, the tapping and stuff that he does. I've used some of those in the past, but I think it's that twisting. movement combined with some of the way he does some of the hip hinging. And I think it just, I don't know, it feels like it unlocks me. I'll do it like first thing in the morning. I think it's about a 12 minute video total. Seven exercises.
Tom Rowland: Yeah, I started doing it with my group. Yeah, it's really easy to do. And he keeps adding more to it that he can do or you can do or whatever. But it's basically those seven exercises that are so beneficial. I find it's great for the shoulders to get loosened up. And then you're just kind of moving around, simple movements. And I think that's why it's been so widely interesting to so many people is because it's just
Taylor Somerville: Yeah. Yep.
Tom Rowland: People look at it they're like, well, I could do that. That doesn't seem hard. And then of course, it doesn't make you look like, it doesn't make you look like him, but I think that people think that maybe it might and they do it. But I started doing it with my workout group in the morning and I thought, you know, I don't know if these guys are going to like this or whatever. And now they asked for it. Like let's do our little bounce warmup. That's what they call it. Are we going to do bouncing? And that's 10 minutes. Yeah.
Taylor Somerville: Haha, yeah. House warm up. Yeah.
Tom Rowland: Well, it's 10 minutes and we do that because we used to jump rope for three minutes to to kind of get loosened up. And I like that, especially if you're to run or something, because I just feel like that's kind of good to get everything moving. But this seems to be almost better because it's really truly full body. And I like the twisting the and if anybody doesn't know what we're talking about, we had Mike Holland on the podcast before he's got something called mind, body, mind, body. What is it?
Taylor Somerville: energy
Tom Rowland: Jake,
Taylor Somerville: I think.
Tom Rowland: mind, body, energy movement. And he's on Instagram. He grew so fast on Instagram. It was incredible. But it's just basically a simple movement. And that's like his focus, just like your focus, is you want to help people and help people through natural processes of breathing and moving in certain ways that we can influence our nervous system and our stress levels and our health. by doing something that, you know, it's just slightly different than anything that you were doing before. It's still, everybody's breathing. You're just breathing in a different way and being conscious about the breathing. And it has a big effect on everything in your life. That's what I think he's doing is it's like you're moving around anyway, even if you're just taking a walk, but you're adding these different movements to it and you're doing it intentionally. And then you're also, if you're doing it correctly, you're adding breath work to it. And that's what a lot of my guys don't do. sit and they talk. And I'm like adding the breath work to it. I'm like, guys, this is a breathing exercise. Like we're supposed to be breathing here while we're doing this. And they're telling jokes. you know, whatever. You can tell jokes. And you're still getting something out of it, I think. But I think it's cool that.
Taylor Somerville: Yep. Yeah, that's what I like too, is I use the breath work with it.
Tom Rowland: Yeah. So how do you use the breath work with it? What kind of breathing are you doing when you're doing that 10 minutes?
Taylor Somerville: So I do kind of what I call fire breathing when you're doing it. So basically quick and rapid breaths in and out of the nose. basically, so as you're twisting, know, exhaling then inhaling, exhaling, inhaling. So kind of basically creating my, know, pushing my breath along with the movement. Every time I'm popping, I'll be exhaling fast out of my nose, just like that. That also is a good energy boost. You're breathing rapidly, quickly that provides some energy, activates the nervous system. So that's why I like it first thing in the morning. And you know, like you said, you're using it with your guys before a workout. It's a great way to warm up for a workout because it gets the nervous system activated, get you going, get your breath going. And then you could get some heat moving in the body as well. You know, and I think he ends with
Tom Rowland: Mm-hmm.
Taylor Somerville: like the horse stance and some of what he calls them like, yeah, and the tapping stuff and that just kind of gets the lymphatic system moving along with the bouncing. And so you're kind of flushing everything out of your body. So I'll do that a lot right after I get up and kind of get the day, start, get the day going. And I've used that more than anything because I used to go through a whole like mobility sequence where I kind of like cars, if you know, you know, from, you know,
Tom Rowland: The tapping, yeah. Mm-hmm.
Taylor Somerville: functional range conditioning FRC where you're basically moving through each joint and kind of rotating it and I used to do something like that every morning for god I can't remember how many years and this is faster and I feel like I can get a whole lot more out of it so I'm like I've started going to this this is my go-to
Tom Rowland: Well, it's easy to remember too. then you can basically do it anywhere, which is a good thing, like in a hotel room. That's one of the things that I really try to stay on is if I have to travel, I try not to miss any workouts because you just keep that consistency. That's where I see so many people fall off. They're on a great program when they're at home. They go on some trip, a family vacation, a business trip, something.
Taylor Somerville: Mm-hmm. Yep.
Tom Rowland: stop doing whatever they're doing and then when they get back they don't jump right back into it. It's like now a few weeks later it gets you off the track and I feel like something like that that's just so easy to do and you can do it anywhere it doesn't take any equipment is a great little thing. But the funny thing about that and so much of the exercises too is that none of this stuff is new. Like everything that he's doing is like really old. It's been out there for a long time. what Wim Hof was doing has been out there for a long time. The box breathing, all that stuff has been out there for a long time. And it's a matter of putting it together and then using social media and using any way that you can connect it like what you're doing over Zoom or whatever you're using just gives people an opportunity to plug into something simple instead of like looking and going, yeah, I've heard Hatha yoga is like really good. But if you go and
Taylor Somerville: Yeah.
Tom Rowland: go to one of those classes you get just a little bit of it but you need to go to a lot of those classes to kind of understand it where you have boiled this down to like these are the things that really work and I'm putting them together in a way that somebody can easily understand it and easily apply it to their life and easily and quickly get a difference in the way that they're feeling that is noticeable, measurable, and repeatable. that what he's done, that's what I think Wim Hof did, that's what so many other people have done of just taking something that's not new. And no one is saying that it's new. Mike is saying, this has been out there forever, man. That's what I'm sure that you're saying, and Wim Hof said. All these people are saying the same thing, like Laird Hamilton, too. It's not new. Even the XPT stuff. He's like, waterman used to do this with rocks on the bottom of the ocean. It's not new.
Taylor Somerville: Yeah, nothing's really new. Yeah.
Tom Rowland: It's just the way you put it together is a little bit new and a little bit more convenient for people to grasp this concept and quickly apply it to their life, which I think is really cool. And to see anybody grow like that on social media, like what Mike did, I think it's really good news for, I don't know, all of us that people are interested in that. over the last few years, and certainly what's going on in the world today, there's a lot of stress out there. There's a lot of people that are trying to deal with stress, and I think a lot of people understand and realize that maybe alcohol and drugs is not the most productive way to do it. Like there could be other ways to deal with stress, and you're equipped, your body's equipped to do it, and that's kind of what you're teaching, right?
Taylor Somerville: Yeah. Yeah, and we all have the tools, and it's just learning how to use them. One of the things nowadays, those are so much information out there, and they're...
Tom Rowland: Yeah.
Taylor Somerville: There are so many hacks and know, whether bio hacks or all these little like small little 1 % things that unfortunately a lot of people try to focus on that stuff first as opposed to, right, let's just build a base and foundation and start there. And then, you know, maybe if we need some of those things, we can use them later, but make sure we're moving, make sure we're taking some time to rest and recover. We have good social connections. We're eating well, you know, spending some time. with ourselves, breathing, just being able to down regulate and relax because we have so much coming at us and it's always a constant go go go go go that we have to be able to dial it back. You look at anyone throughout history we've always had some time for rest, recharge, recover and now we try to kind of push that away. So there's a great phrase stress plus rest equals growth. Unfortunately we so often just do stress and stress and stress and that's just eventually it'll work for some time but it's gonna break you down so and if you're not getting the rest in then you're not gonna really be able to grow out of it and so that's one of the things we try to focus on people and that's where you know I'm really big on using those transitions of those small times because everybody's got they're so busy so all right most people don't have time for a two-hour morning routine but can you give yourself five minutes before you jump into your your phone and email and start seeing what the world has brought, you can sit there and breathe. can pray if you're spiritual and religious. Just do something to disconnect and then do it before you go to bed. And as you go throughout your day, you can take one minute after being in a meeting or meeting with a client or phone call. Give yourself three slow breaths. You can see massive boost just by making those small little changes and adjustments.
Tom Rowland: Let's talk about sleep. You mentioned sleep a number of times as that's what you work on with your clients. What kind of tips can you give people as far as building your sleep foundation and improving your sleep and your sleep habits?
Taylor Somerville: Big ones are what are doing right before you go to bed? Are you keeping yourself in that activated state, whether it is checking the news or? diving into your emails or scrolling on social media right before you go to bed, that's gonna keep you activated and elevated. All right, can we, let's cut that out at least 30 minutes before you go to bed. So try to clear off the screens. Can, how dark is your room? Make sure you're getting a dark room that's relatively cold. Those are some easy ways. You know, what is your... What are you eating right before you go to bed? Because we look at our circadian rhythm and it really focuses on our temperature, light, movement. are three of the big factors there and digestion. So if we're eating right before we go to bed, our body still thinks it needs to be awake, it's digesting food, that's keeping you up. It's going to make your sleep not as good at night. On the light aspect, we want to have that early morning sunlight. Andrew Huberman's been a big promoter of this, preached this for the last few years, is getting that first 10, 15 minutes of some morning sunlight. It's a great way to set your circadian rhythm that's gonna get cortisol production in the morning when you need it to get you activated and then kick your melatonin production in later in the evening. So kind of getting off of the lights, the blue lights later at night, screens, trying to tone everything down. Those are some big ones. You can make a massive change just by doing that, getting that early morning sunlight and then cutting screens out 30 minutes before you go to bed is one of the biggest changes I think people will see. And then if you're scrolling on social media right before you go to bed or checking that last email, that's going to really affect your sleep. So those are some big ones. when we're working with clients, we have a thing called a sleep diary that you do for a week and you can just start, all right, what time did you go to bed? What time did you wake up? Different things that you did throughout your day. you can start, we can track it with a watch and areas like that. So you can get some details on those front, but also when you're right and really putting pen to paper on what you did during the week before you went to sleep throughout the day and see how that affects your sleep as well. Because creating that awareness is really the first point to make any change.
Tom Rowland: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. What do you think about the watches and the sleep scores? Is that legit? I've never used it, personally.
Taylor Somerville: They, I think they can create, they can give you a good thing to look at at first, like if you have no idea. The sleep scores, I don't really worry about those as much as more of just seeing how much time you're in bed and then that sleep latency, because they're usually pretty good at tracking, all right, when did you get in bed and then when did you fall asleep. So they're pretty good at looking at those numbers. Their deep REM, that stuff is not. very highly accurate, you know. So I don't get too worried about those, but I like to see, all right, for somebody to know, be able to track exactly how long they're in bed. You know, on all of the trackers, I think there is... you know, a good awareness from them, but eventually you gotta be able to do it without it. You can't let them run your life because nowadays a lot of people look up and say, my, well, my sleep score was bad, so I must not be able to go hard today. You know, getting too wedded to the data, the tech just telling you what you can do as opposed to really feeling it in your body. So I like it as more of an awareness tool and then, you know, kind of let it go by your side.
Tom Rowland: Right.
Taylor Somerville: after a little while.
Tom Rowland: Yeah. And what about, what do you coach as far as like phones near your bed at night, like, or charging in the same room as you're sleeping? Do you give any advice there?
Taylor Somerville: Ideally, I would say keep it out of your room. Personally, I charge mine in another room, but my wife charges it across the room from us. Some people will say, well, I can't. I've got kids or I've got to be able to, and I'm like, yeah, I get it. But put it across the room. Don't put it right by your bed.
Tom Rowland: Yeah. Yeah.
Taylor Somerville: but have to actually physically get up and go to it. So you're gonna have to put it down to then go get in bed. So you can't just be laying in bed scrolling would be my recommendation if you can't keep it outside of your room. But if you put it outside of your room, I mean, I think that's the best.
Tom Rowland: Right. So when you're working with people and you come, you find a new person to work with that has, would think this would, if somebody is seeking you out, then they're probably already pretty interested in making a change in your life. I would think that the people that would be the ones that would be the most interesting would be somebody that this has kind of been forced upon them, like in one of these team building things to where they literally have never thought about this ever in their life. And I wonder,
Taylor Somerville: Mm-hmm.
Tom Rowland: When you see somebody that's like that, that didn't seek you out, but you're just kind of observing, they're very stressed out and they're kind of anxiety ridden. When you talk to them, do you notice that it's like the anxiety or is it like the foundation? you're first of all, you're not getting enough sleep. Secondly, you're not moving enough. Like, I don't know if you could pick things out that are like common. or if it's an individual thing each each person's a little bit different I would assume but that sleep is such a big one and I think that people including me like when when I was building my business and I was getting started you sleep later like you know I've got things to do and you neglect that but honestly like there's been so many books written and and different studies and things about how much better and more productive you can be if you have an extra hour sleep or two hours of sleep. And so maybe, you know, that sleep later, you are actually working more, but you're getting less done than if you were well rested, well, very well nourished, you had some activity, breathing, then when you're actually at work doing your thing, you're getting far more accomplished in a shorter time. But I don't know, some people are getting a lot accomplished.
Taylor Somerville: Yes.
Tom Rowland: all the time and they just choose not to sleep. There are those people, you know, that just don't seem to need it that much and they just go all the time.
Taylor Somerville: Yeah. There's, it's called the sleepless elite. I think it's like less than 1 % of the population and I think they can manage on four to six hours. And some of you, know, the human body is very adaptable. You know, with young kids, you obviously can't sleep, get the greatest sleep like that. You know, I'm not getting perfect sleep right now and I won't be really getting it for a while. But there's other things that I can do kind of in the meantime when I'm not getting it to, all right, making sure I'm getting rested and recharged as well. you know, when those groups, like you were saying, I would say most people sleep pretty poor.
Tom Rowland: Yeah.
Taylor Somerville: Very rarely when sending out questionnaires, is anybody like, yes, I sleep great. That's typically one of the first things that we're focused on and dealing with and that's why we have it as a part when working with companies as a way for people to understand. you know, if I can get this under control and you know, when things are now finding is you for one, yes, you can work better, work harder when you're, you know, focused and rested and companies who put money into these platforms, know, there's, I can't remember who it is. I have it in my deck, but it's like, you know, a four to one return ROI on their wellness spending. And a lot of fortune 500 companies are in. So people who are or companies who are actually taking care of their employees, their employees feel better, they work better, and they work harder. They're not just feeling like they're another cog in the system and are disposable, so they can actually do better work.
Tom Rowland: Wow. I believe that. I believe that. But how are they helping their employees sleep better? Like how could they even do that?
Taylor Somerville: No, I'm just, well, a lot of them now will have like actually, you know, giveaway trackers and things like that. But I'm just saying overall wellness programs, not necessarily sleep is what I was saying on those fronts.
Tom Rowland: Yeah. Did you did you read that book? Do you know that guy? James D. Nickel Antonio? Do know him? Do know who he is? He's got a long last name. It's D. Nickel Antonio. That's his last name. I can remember it because it's so it's kind of fun to say. But it's like he's got one. The first one that I ever read was the salt fix. And it was about, you know, having enough salt in your diet, especially if you were an athlete and you're you're losing a lot of
Taylor Somerville: That name sounds very familiar. What's the name of the book?
Tom Rowland: salt and and a lot of people are replacing their salt and they're they're they're deficient in salt and how much salt can can help you especially athletes or what one of the reasons why i was mostly interested because if you're fishing all the time you're out in the hot sun pulling a boat and everybody's thinking about drinking enough water but they're not thinking about replacing their electrolytes a lot of times and you're feeling like you're really down and not feeling great and so i read this book
Taylor Somerville: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Tom Rowland: kind of for that purpose. then it kind of led me to a few of his other books. And he has one book that I think that if anybody was going to read just one of his books, it's basically all of his books put together. And it's called Win. And it is like win a championship. It's kind of a culmination. It's got a chapter from the salt fix. It's got a chaparral. He's got these other books like the salt fix, the mineral fix, some other fix. And he just kind of puts that information into this one book and it's a very large book I usually have it down here. Hey Jake. It's right behind you. Can you see that you see that book when? Let see that It's a giant book But he has a lot of different Can you see that? It's thick. It's a big thick book, but like most of most of it Yeah, well it is because most of this book
Taylor Somerville: Hell yeah. It's like a reference card.
Tom Rowland: the last this is chap this is page four hundred seventy five and all of this are are references all of these so he's really good at reading studies and then quoting studies and and it's in tiny little like little little writing you can barely read but from page four hundred seventy five to page five hundred and sixty five are all references almost a hundred pages of references in this book but in this thing
Taylor Somerville: Okay. Yeah.
Tom Rowland: He talks about sleeping. talks about salt and food and minerals and sauna, ice, a lot of different things. It's a really good book. think you would like it. But the reason why I was asking you if you read that is because he has a couple of chapters in there and a bunch of studies referenced in there about students that
Taylor Somerville: Yeah, I'll have to check that out.
Tom Rowland: you know, like when I went to school, you would cram for a test and you would stay up real late and, you know, but I probably wouldn't have been a good one there because I didn't actually do the work all the way through the semester and I just all tried to learn at the end. So I don't know that going to bed early for me in that situation would have helped because I actually needed to learn the material, right? But for somebody that had been studying all semester and they kind of knew the material already, he was saying look if you just they they did the studies where if you just went to bed earlier and got a full eight hours of sleep they had test scores in there for people that crammed the night before and people that that got a good night sleep the night before surprisingly better for the ones that slept and then he had some other studies in there about basketball players focused on their sleep and how it improved their
Taylor Somerville: Mm-hmm.
Tom Rowland: their accuracy at the free throw line. That's something that's very measurable, right? It's the same shot over and over again. And if you got a good night's sleep, you went up like 3%. And it was so much so that a couple of these teams started bringing mattresses with them. Like they brought their mattress to the playoffs or whatever. They set up their sleep environment in the hotel or wherever they're staying. Yeah.
Taylor Somerville: Yeah. Yeah. Those pro athletes take everything.
Tom Rowland: But it was compelling evidence that a better night's sleep was not just a little bit better, but measurably better to the point of like that could be the edge of one person being here and another person being at a completely different level. could have that big of an effect on you. And they've always said, you've always heard that one study about like, Doctors in residency that you know, they go like 24 hours, you know on and then they're off and when they get off they're basically Functioning like a drunk person like they they're they're they don't they don't have any Rest and the human body just does not do well like that My experience with that was seal fit and go rock They kept you up. That was like part of the
Taylor Somerville: Yeah.
Tom Rowland: That's part of the challenge is you stay up for 50 hours, you don't sleep, and you don't function well. I mean, it's really amazing. And I really do think that part of the deal there on that is that they want to illustrate that so much so that how bad you are when you haven't slept for 50 hours, you can still push through and you can still do these things. But you're really operating like you're drunk. Like you're not.
Taylor Somerville: Yeah. Yeah.
Tom Rowland: you're not at your best by any stretch of imagination. So I believe in sleep. I really do. And I get up really early, which means I have to go to bed really early. That's not always great. My wife likes to, she would like to stay up and watch some TV with me or something. But man, 8.30 rolls around. I'm going to bed. I mean, if you wake up at 4.30, you have to go to bed. Yeah. I mean, you're a little ways away from that.
Taylor Somerville: I'm ready to, if it ain't there. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, you got it.
Tom Rowland: Right now to be your little ways away from being able to just say I'm going to bed at 830 But you know there is light at the end of the tunnel your kids will grow up They will be they will be adults one day and you will be able to choose the time that you go to bed Eventually not now not now they choose the time you get up You could probably choose the time you go to bed, but they are going to choose the time you get up That's what I know about parenting, right?
Taylor Somerville: But it's, yeah. Hahaha Ugh. Yeah, luckily, I get up pretty early too, it gives me some time before the...
Tom Rowland: So tell me one more thing about sleep. What do you think about caffeine?
Taylor Somerville: I love it.
Tom Rowland: How do you how do you coach about caffeine? Yeah, you love it. I love it, too But what do you think about? how do you coach your clients on on caffeine intake and sleep and all everything that we're talking about because obviously caffeine is a It's a wonderful drug and if you don't know that it's a wonderful drug It's probably because you've been having it every single day If you take a month off and you drink half a cup of coffee, you'll realize why it's the most most popular beverage
Taylor Somerville: That's another one is... Mm-hmm.
Tom Rowland: in the world because it is amazing especially if you get it completely out of your system and then you just have a little bit it's incredible but it doesn't last like that because the next day you have a half a cup and you don't quite get there the next day you're at a full cup and sooner or later you're back to two or three cups or whatever you were having before and then you don't get that effect but I strongly encourage anyone to get it completely out of your system and then try it one more time because it's it's it's incredible
Taylor Somerville: Yeah. You gotta have more.
Tom Rowland: But what do you tell people about caffeine?
Taylor Somerville: Stay away from the late afternoon caffeine, ideally, because it'll stay in your system for eight to 10 hours. Half life on caffeine is relatively long. While some people metabolize it better, good rule of thumb is not to have it after about 2 o'clock. Ideally, noon is what I prefer.
Tom Rowland: Yeah. So I've read about the half-life. And Huberman talks about the half-life a lot of caffeine. But some people don't know what that is or understand it. So let's just say you have a cup of coffee. What is that, like 200 milligrams of caffeine in a standard cup of coffee? So the half-life of that would be 100 milligrams. And so it lasts like what?
Taylor Somerville: will still be in your system at eight hours after you have it, roughly.
Tom Rowland: So eight hours after you have a cup of coffee, you still have like 100 milligrams of caffeine in your system.
Taylor Somerville: Well, you'll just still have it in your system at that point. So it's still affecting your system and sleep for it. I can't remember the exact number on it. And then some people do metabolize it a lot faster, but it's still relatively high where it's going to be in your system for good eight hours.
Tom Rowland: But it's... Yeah.
Taylor Somerville: So if you're having it at two o'clock when you're trying to go to work.
Tom Rowland: And that, I don't know, I can, I can drink coffee and go to sleep. I can go to sleep pretty fast, no matter what. But I can drink coffee and probably go to sleep. But I find that if I were to do that, my sleep would be fitful at night. I wouldn't get a lot of rest. And I think that's where a lot of people are. Yeah, restless and not getting that good recovery sleep.
Taylor Somerville: Yeah. yeah, you've been a little more restlessly. Most people are sleeping and then they're getting that 3 a.m. wake up and then they're not going back to bed. It's what we see a lot because your body also has kind of a natural cortisol jump as it starts getting ready for the day around three. And people who tend to be high stress can't come back down out of that. So they just stay awake because then the mind starts processing, all right, everything they got to do the next day.
Tom Rowland: Mmm.
Taylor Somerville: worried about that. that's something we end up working on with people as well. Is what do you do? Well, one of the things if you if you struggle to go back to sleep and you say you typically get up and you're still awake for like an hour.
Tom Rowland: How do you work on that? What do you tell people to do there?
Taylor Somerville: Don't just lay in your bed. You can kind of get up and move around. Go to a different room, read a book. you can usually get pretty, that can bring people back down. Don't, last thing you want to do is get in your phone and start looking at your emails or anything like that. But there's also, coming back to some slower breathing techniques, like those longer exhale focus, just, you know, breathe in for three, pause out for six. Just continue doing that. Can bring people out, but people who are
Tom Rowland: Hmm.
Taylor Somerville: had some people who've been pilots and had crazy schedules along those lines. And one of the best things they would do is just get up out of bed, go to another room, read a book. And within like 10, 15 minutes that would bring them back down and then they go to sleep.
Tom Rowland: That's a good tip. Look, I don't know. That's one that I've just never had that problem with.
Taylor Somerville: Yeah, because you don't if you're your body will then start, you know. Gab never had it either, luckily.
Tom Rowland: I've never had a problem going back to sleep. Yeah, well, I mean, I think a lot of that's the exercise too. If you get a lot of exercise, I feel like, I don't know. I mean, some of my guys that I work out with, they do that. They'll wake up at three, and then they just don't go back to bed. And I'm thinking it's going to be fast. I mean, everybody's going to sleep well because we're all getting a lot of exercise. But some people don't. Some people don't. But anyway, so Symmetry Live.
Taylor Somerville: Yeah.
Tom Rowland: Taylor Somerville, if you are interested in these kind of things, you're stressed, you don't sleep well, you should definitely check him out. And Taylor, I'm really happy to catch up with you again. It's been awesome. I'm happy that you're still going, still going with Symmetry Live. It's really amazing. You're helping a lot of people.
Taylor Somerville: Yeah, good talking Tom. Thank you. It's good talking. Enjoyed it.
Tom Rowland: All right, Yep, we'll be back with another great guest next week. So check that out. And in the meantime, go check out Symmetry Live. All right, that's it for today. Taylor, awesome. Thanks, man. I appreciate it. I got to roll. I got a phone call right there where I got to take. But it's great talking with you. I'm really happy to catch up with you.
Taylor Somerville: Thank you. Yeah, I can talk to you, Tom. All right, thank you. See ya.
Tom Rowland: All right, see ya.
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