Taylor Somerville: Breathwork Techniques to Control Stress and Anxiety

Tom Rowland Podcast — Episode 923: Taylor Somerville

In this episode: why 17 to 20 breaths a minute at rest means you are chronically stressed, SOS breathing for the moment stress hits, box breathing in a hospital waiting room, a 220-degree sauna in Memphis, the 3-3-6 exhale pattern for falling asleep, and email apnea — in the exact words spoken.

00:00 · Cold Open

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Taylor Somerville: My name is Taylor Somerville, the founder of Symmetry, and this is the Tom Rowland Podcast.

Tom Rowland: Love it. Okay. Cool. Taylor, what's up, man? It's been four years.

02:58 · Four Years Later: Symmetry, XPT, and a New Baby

Taylor Somerville: Oh, dude. Doing well, Tom. Thanks for having me, man.

Tom Rowland: I'm I'm really happy to have you. What's been going on for four years? I, the the first time we had you on, we I think, we made contact, I think, because I was interested in XPT and the work that Laird Hamilton was doing, and somehow we got connected. And and you, have gone through a lot of that training. And, we've done quite a few podcasts together a long time ago, but we we lost contact. What's been going on?

Taylor Somerville: That's right. Yeah. So let's see. We were also I've done all the XPT stuff, still, you know, coaching a lot of that work here, expanded it through, other things that I'm doing in at Memphis, through my company, Symmetry, We do a lot of corporate work, a lot of one on one and group coaching, help clients, deal with stress. We help IT and visit people, take back and tone of lives, save more time, more energy, and less stress. And I love it. You know, we use breath as the foundation for for everything we do, but also getting outside of your comfort zone, understanding stress, nervous system. Love the, you know, cold plunges and saunas. Still still doing the pool workouts and things along those lines as well. So, yeah, since then, I've also had a little girl as I was telling you, 10 old. So that's a

Tom Rowland: Nice. Whole

Taylor Somerville: different life change and, you know, helping me, put all my work into practice.

Tom Rowland: So, yeah, that's what I was gonna ask you. Are you taking your own medicine? Because, having a 10 old, I've had three 10 10 olds, over the course of my life, with my three children. And, it can be somewhat of a stressful time in your life. Are you are you taking your own medicine?

Taylor Somerville: Oh, yeah. I have to, put it into practice every day. You know? It's, like, trying to get to sleep. Luckily, she's been a, a pretty good sleeper, so that's helped. But just in general, you know, trying to stay under control, staying calm and collected, when everything goes awry because, you know, a young one, the childcare can go away. A lot of sickness. There's no telling what each day might bring. Yeah. But it's been great. Loving it. You know? I think

Tom Rowland: It's really interesting to hear that that you're in a position of, of of newly found stress. Like, 10 old, so probably in the last year when, you know, maybe year, year and a half when you find out that you're gonna have a child and then you actually have this child and now you're kind of living life in this new this new world. You're experiencing life like a lot of your clients were of kind of, I would assume, if you're like everyone else, I don't know. We're gonna test out what symmetry is all about here. But I would assume that there are moments of overwhelm. There are moments where you feel like, I don't know if I can handle this or there's certainly moments where it it's more than you bargained for. Let's just say that. Right? So how how, well, what I'm mostly interested is how you're dealing with that because I think a a large part of the audience that listens to this are are parents, dads, moms, in the same type of, you know, situation that you're in. But then you also have, like, all of these different, clients that are coming to you, to relieve stress. And it seems like we've got this this this world that we're living in right now, particularly right now. Like, you've got this upcoming election whether whoever you're for in the election, whoever you're not for in the election doesn't really matter. But right now, we're only a few months out. There's this serious time of uncertainty. People are like, look. It could be either one. I just don't know how to to react to the next four years. I don't I don't know what's coming. Right? There's a tremendous amount of uncertainty. So how do you what you say that breath is the foundation. Kinda walk me through what you do with with yourself in this new situation of having a a a young child or customers, clients that come to you and are experiencing stress, anxiety in the in the world today?

07:03 · Transitions: Shifting Your State Between Work and Home

Taylor Somerville: Yeah. Well, it kinda starts off, you know, definitely have overwhelmed at those times where I think I've I'm not sure if I can handle what's going on. I think one of the things that's benefited me so far is I am 45, so I'm an old dad. You know, and that life experience, I think, helps. I thought about this a lot. I can't imagine if I would've had her when I was in my twenties, when most people tend to have kids. Whole different, you know, frame of reference in mind. I think the tools that I have helped me a lot. What we you know, working with the clients and in general, what helps me is we try to use what we call, like, transitions in your day. Small little times maybe. It's between meetings on the way from home to work, work to home. Using that time to shift your state, basically, by getting out of a stress state or just to allow you to come back and be present. So when you are with your family, with your spouse, with your kids, you can be there and be present so you're not constantly thinking about what's going on at work. And when you're at work, you're not constantly thinking about what's going on with your family. So you're able to actually focus and, you know, be in charge of yourself and and do the best you can in those environments. When I say we we use the breath, it's everything. You know, the breath is the first thing we do. It's the last thing we do. And it's really the only system we have that can constantly change your mental and physical state. So focus a lot on, you know, first working with clients. We're looking at how you're breathing, you know, every day as you go throughout your day. Are you tend to be breathing it out of your mouth, breathing in your upper chest? You have a higher respiration rate, which, you know, if you look at a tracker, most of them track respiration right now. I'm talking about at rest if you're, like, 17 to 20 breast a minute. That means you're just on a more chronically stressed level. So we work on repatterning those, getting breathing in through your nose as much as you can at rest during the day. We really should be doing that all the time at rest, unless you're eating or speaking, and then, you know, using the diaphragm better, breathing lower, and breathing slower. Those are kind of everyday breathing aspects that we focus on. And we work on your techniques to ground you. So wake up in the morning. Instead of just jumping into your phone or jumping into seeing what happened in the news, spend five minutes just connecting your breath, taking control of your days, allow instead of allowing the external events of the world to control you. So giving yourself some space really at the beginning of the day, at the end of the day, to help you get in front of everything instead of just being let around by whatever the latest thing in the news cycle is or social media, which, you know, it happens to me too. You know, pull up the phone. Next thing I know, I'm scrolling through Instagram for fifteen minutes and have no idea what happened to that. Or watching the news. It's very, very common. So it's just about being cognizant and being aware of that in which you kinda create awareness. What also around what triggers you, what's for you out? You can learn how to take a little bit better control of that. And while it's always gonna be there and it's always gonna affect you, you're never gonna get really stressed and you don't want to. It's something we need. You could have better tools to manage this. So when you do get overwhelmed, maybe it doesn't last as long. You do fly off the handle or yell at your kids or get an argument or somebody cuts you off and freak out a little bit. Maybe it doesn't last as long, and you're able to kinda come back down much quicker, and be a little kinder to yourself than you would have been in the past.

10:31 · Resting Breath Rate, Repatterning, and SOS Breathing

Tom Rowland: So you said 17 to 20 breaths a a minute. Is that a lot? That's that's somebody that's breathing.

Taylor Somerville: Yeah. That would be that would be a a much faster rate if that rests. So if you're at rest, you, you know, on average, your breast respiration rate's about 13 breaths a minute. We really wanna see it even a little bit slower or closer to, like, 10 breaths a minute. Because you gotta think about it. If you if you sat there and person next to you is breathing fast, just sitting there, just kinda quit breaths, what are you thinking? Oh, that that person might be dying effectively. You know? You're you're using way too much energy to to just have a natural process in the body and breathing way too fast. We can, you know, sit there and breathe like that and not even know it. And so that's one of the kind of good things by having these tractors these days. Can help you get an understanding of along with things like the rest your heart rate as well, with the rest of heart rate, things along those lines when you're, working with clients too.

Tom Rowland: What's a way to to you know, if you notice that you are, you know, in a stressful situation or something, you notice that you are breathing faster than normal or you notice that you're breathing into the upper part of your chest, which is like flight or flight, that would be the fight or flight response, like the shallow breathing. What's a way to kind of a a practice where you can get to where you understand that, what's going on, and then you can change it? How do you coach people into doing that?

Taylor Somerville: Well, first in understanding, first on just kinda creating awareness around the rest of outside of those stressful situations. Can you sit for, like, five minutes? We have recordings where you're just following your breath, then maybe you'll tap into, can you feel your heartbeat? Creating some introspective awareness so you can kind of you know, as you lay in there breathing, can you feel your heartbeat in and out? You can expand that awareness, to a little bit outside of the body, help you create what's going on inside, just understand it. And then, you know, the more you can do this stuff outside of stressful situations, and we really start with a very basic breathing pattern, just breathing in for five seconds, out for five seconds. Not really trying to change much at all. Just can you start doing that? Just balance rest. Equal inhale, equal exhale. Do that for five minutes to start. If that gets easier, you can kind of expand it out into some other techniques, that we use such as, like, triangle or box when you're creating poles at the top and bottom.

Tom Rowland: Mhmm.

Taylor Somerville: And then when you're in a stressful situation, big thing we focus on is, for one, you gotta get control of your breath. So, you know, if you feel yourself kinda rapidly breathing in and out of your mouth, take a couple brief breaths in through the nose, out of the mouth, and focus on slowing it down. So come out kind of like a strong powerful breath. Be like a Do two or three of those and then slow it down slowly into the nose, slow right out of the mouth. That small and slow exhale helps calm the nervous system, helps your mind body realize, alright, everything's under control, and we can start calming you down a little bit. Now let stress just ease ease out. We got a, you know, technique we call SOS breathing that basically kinda walks you that do that for about 10 breaths where we're focusing on getting control and then slowing it down.

13:47 · Box Breathing in a Hospital Waiting Room

Tom Rowland: Yeah. You know, I first learned about, breath work probably at Seal Fit. When I was at Seal Fit, Mark Devine is a is a breath advocate, and he taught us box breathing.

Taylor Somerville: Mhmm.

Tom Rowland: And unboxed breathing, you know, like, you you had made reference to it before. It's something that you do also, but you would breathe in for a number of seconds, three or five seconds. You hold for three or five seconds. You would breathe out for three or five seconds, then you would hold for three or five seconds. So you're kinda doing it like a box, and you're kind of envisioning a box or whatever. But, man, I had this well, there's been a couple of different things. My wife just recently had a, hip replacement, and I was so concerned about her. I was so worried about her. I was sitting in a hospital, which a hospital never makes you feel good ever. Like, everyone around you is like everybody's except for the nurses and doctors, they seem to be, you know, pretty at peace there. But everyone else is kind of on edge because you're either coming to visit somebody that's not doing as well as they should be or they've just had a traumatic thing. I don't know. It's just kind of a a place that kind of inspires angst, for for for me anyway. And so my wife goes in, and and I just sat there, and I knew that the the surgery was gonna they had forecast that the surgery would take between an hour and hour and a half, you know, for for her to get all, you know, back to the to the Surgery Room being prepped and then actually to go under the knife and then get their get her hip trans her transplant. I keep calling it a transplant. Hip replacement. And, I was just so worried about her. And so I went back to that technique of box breathing and, you know, because I didn't wanna, like, do, like, Wim Hof breathing or anything. But with the box breathing, you could just kind of sit there. You could close your eyes if you want to, but you're not, like nobody's noticing even what you're doing. And I did that for, like, an hour. And, you know, it just everything went away. All the angst, all the all of the the worry. I mean, I was still worried about her, but I was in a clear head. And it had been a long time since I had done box breathing for that period of time. And I gotta say, it was pretty awesome, like, looking back on it, because it just it just totally every you know, the heart rate comes down, all the angst, all the anxiety goes away. And and, I don't even know why necessarily I didn't think about doing it, but I I got in that situation. I'm like, okay. I need to take some breaths. And I take some deep breaths, and then I start thinking, okay. Well, I could just do this box breathing. Is that something that I mean, did I just kinda do that right, or is that something that you, when you're when you're suggesting to somebody triangle breathing or or box breathing, is it in those type of situations like that, or is there something better that somebody could do?

Taylor Somerville: It can be great for situations like that. Even box breathing, you know, like, maybe you have a presentation to do. Doing it five to ten minutes before going to the presentation to clear your mind and get out of the kinda worrying, whatever what everything is gonna happen. You know? And I think you say you just kinda went back to it, and that's just because you've done this stuff for years. And so it becomes somewhat of a second nature, and you just naturally go back to it. I mean, that's one of the things with box breathing. You mentioned your heart rate lowered. You know, it's shown if you do five to ten minutes of box breathing a day for four weeks shows a significant proper blood pressure just as much as taking blood pressure medication.

Tom Rowland: Wow.

Taylor Somerville: While I'm not a doctor, I would say that that's a thing you do. Like, when you're going into the doctor's office as they're about to take your blood pressure, and you're waiting for the nurse to sit there and do some box breathing. You'll see you'll you can feel your heart rate drop. You can feel yourself kinda calming down even after just a few minutes. Now if you've never done it before, it's not gonna work as fast. It's like anything. The more reps, the better muscle memory you have, the easier it is to do in those difficult situations. So that's why we're big on, you know, working on it outside so that when that happens, you can come back to it. Make it same nature.

18:03 · From the Investment Business to Breath Coaching

Tom Rowland: When we were first talking, you were telling me about some of the changes that you've done in the last few years. And, I mean, I think at the beginning, when we when we were connecting before, it seemed like you maybe and maybe I'm wrong here. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seemed to me like you were maybe a little more skewed to the workout and fitness side, and it seems like today, maybe you're a little bit more skewed to the to the, breathing, relieving anxiety and kind of, I don't know. Is that is am I reading that correctly?

Taylor Somerville: I got into all of these techniques because I was in the investment business for fifteen years. Went through divorce in 2014, so a decade ago, and that kinda made me find stuff to help you deal with anxiety and stress. Really kinda got into the breathing techniques and electrical involved, found XPT, some of the market by the stuff. And was doing that and realized how much you allowed me to control my stress response. And then kind of, you know, going through that whole change, really got into the fitness and work outside, and I'm still real into that. Don't work on it as much with clients anymore. Now it's more distress management, you know, especially in corporate setting or in our group coaching. That's our focus. We do do some of the workout stuff. And I still do some extreme things together, and I totally do. I just got back from Leadville helping some friends, run that race. So I was crewing and pacing, and I did that, did the full thing a couple years ago, so I'm still into that. But my focus now is helping people deal with stress, helping them change new habits, create new mindsets, improve their sleep. You know, there's a lot of Yeah.

Tom Rowland: That's I have

Taylor Somerville: I have

Tom Rowland: a few of those things already on the list to talk about, the sleep and stuff. But Yeah. How are you how are you how are people finding you? Like, you mentioned corporate and and you're going and and working with some businesses, I would imagine. But how is that how people are finding you, or is it mostly through the corporate world? Or

20:02 · Corporate Wellness and Blood Testing

Taylor Somerville: So more people going into the mouth from our clients, you know, and sharing either they have been coming to us for years, if you know? And then share it with their company or they're bringing, you know, their executives and they're kinda bringing us in to work. And, you know, we do a few different ways, you know, on the company side where we come in and do full workplace wellness where we come and meet every month, helping your employees better manage stress, build and create new habits because a lot of problems as we all learn new things and try to incorporate them. Most people just do it for a couple weeks, and then it kinda goes away and they're back to doing the same thing. So how can we create life sounds sustainable habits with us? Focus on sleep, do some basic stuff on nutrition and movement, but more of an understanding to some things you need to create in your life. So those are some areas. We also do some blood testing as well just so, you know, if you don't have an idea of where you are inside, it can you know, a lot of things can creep up on you. So being on the corporate side and some of the coaching

Tom Rowland: What are you looking for in the blood test? On the blood work, what are you particularly, what are you looking for?

Taylor Somerville: Kind of a base baseline, of, you know, are they deficient in anything like vitamin d, magnesium? Most people need supplement on those things. Do they have something, you know, that's elevated and burned out? We use InsideTracker, so it can kinda, tell you a lot of the things out of the game, gives you a great dashboard and things you need to do on your own. We have a partnership right now. We use them. And and if it is something that is, you know, out of whack, maybe it's cholesterol or some you know, could even be some other, you know, blood work, anything from glucose. If you need to maybe they need to go see a doctor about it and get further testing or talk to someone that has a little bit, you know, more of an expert in that area. But at least you can find out about it and have a baseline and then see what you know, because a lot of people continue to, just kinda blow that off and, you know, especially the older you get. If you're not looking at anything, you know, and like that, then it can, a lot of bad stuff can just kinda creep up on you. So

22:07 · Winning Over the Skeptics in the Room

Tom Rowland: Well, some people you know, there there are a lot of people in this world that, are not athletes. They weren't athletes in high school. They haven't done very many athletic things. And so I wonder that that to me, just even saying that about not doing very many athletic things makes me anxious immediately thinking what what life would be like if I didn't move, if I wasn't active in working on my mobility and doing crazy workouts and things. But they don't have to be crazy workouts. Just taking a walk can be amazing. But if you are kind of in tune with your athletic body, then you understand kind of how breathing works. If you've never done anything athletic or competitive, then I think a lot of this would be new new to a lot of people. Like, that you can, influence your state through your breath. Do you see that with with many people, like, in the corporate world where where they're not really like, the the business is bringing you in. The corporation is bringing you in and saying, here, can you work with our people? Mhmm. Some of those people aren't wouldn't necessarily sign up for this. Like, they're there because they kinda need to be or have to be or this is offered and maybe it'll do something. But I'm just kinda wondering, like, you're seeing so many people across a wide spectrum of athletes and and nonathletes. What how how are people kind of, embracing the idea that that breath can help you, with stress and anxiety?

Taylor Somerville: Well, you always have those people who are sitting there, and you can see it on their face that they just have to be there. They don't wanna be there. Part of what we do is always create, experiment to acts. You know? We put them through breath techniques, as part of it. So we will typically preset a lot of stress, nervous system. I don't know what happens when we get stressed out, in the mind and the body and go through why the breath and then put them through some breathing techniques.

Tom Rowland: It typically What would be one that you would put put them through? Let's let's get

Taylor Somerville: We might use box breathing. Okay. Kinda go through a host. Maybe we even have them hold their breath just out of the gate and feel that stress trigger build up. And as that CO two builds up in your system, your brain starts sending alarm bells, and it's a great way to understand, oh, man. This is, you know obviously, this is, like, our body's number one goal is respiration. So that CO two builds. Stress starts to build the system. Maybe we have them breathe rapidly in and out of the mouth and the upper chest for, you know, fifteen, twenty seconds and just sit and feel how that makes them feel. Maybe a little anxious, a little jittery, and they can go to some calmer breathing like box breathing. So you can feel yourself calm down and some exhale focused breathing as well. And then we will leave them with three techniques that they can take, typically something to help with sleep, something to do before meeting, and something kinda like in the moment of stress relief as well.

25:04 · Why Sleep Is Number One

Tom Rowland: Yeah. I wanna go over those three that you leave them with. But but before we do that, I wanna talk about sleep because so many people that are stressed, like, their their their stress is exacerbated by their lack of sleep or inability to sleep. And some people when they lay down, their mind starts going a million miles an hour, and they can't slow it down. Like, what what do you suggest there, and how important is sleep? I mean, I I know how important it is and a lot of people that are listening to this, but I'm just kinda wondering, like, in in these last four or five years of doing this, how how do you where do you rank sleep as far as, like, overall wellness and health?

Taylor Somerville: It is probably, number one. You know? If you're not sleeping great, everything else is going to have problems. People think that, oh, I can sleep for five, six hours a night. Maybe you can, but you're in, like, the point 001% if that's the case. You see a host of metabolic issues, pre diabetes, things like that from or sleep. Your brain doesn't clear out, you know, clear out the lymphatic system. So flesh hormones and things from our from our body, which can lead to Alzheimer's and diabetes. You're more emotional. You process your emotions while you sleep and your REM sleep. That's how you consolidate memory. That's how your body repairs. So it's basically when we're sleeping, we're allocating our energy to things that are gonna repair our system. And when we're awake, we're we're allocating energy to things that are kinda breaking us down. So if we're always breaking down, eventually, what's gonna happen? The whole thing's gonna break down. So sleep is extremely important and, you know, we find everybody kinda struggles with with it in some way. You know, what just kind of some important aspects are being about, like, following the light. So sun comes up in the morning, go outside, see the sun. Don't have to stay at a certain angle, certain just get outside and see the sun for a little bit in the morning. When the night comes, start turning the lights down at home. Start getting off screens about an hour if you're at Trident and do anything that's gonna be, like, super engaging, create your mind to go into that. You know, you don't wanna check emails for work right before you go to bed. That's what's gonna happen. You're just gonna continue thinking about that.

Tom Rowland: Right.

Taylor Somerville: So when following the light, create a routine. If you struggle to go to sleep, you know, we, just some slow calming breathing for five minutes could be reading a book. You know, could be stretching mobility work like you mentioned. That's a great way to kinda down regulate the nervous system as well. Watch things like, are you eating big meals close to the time you wanna go to bed? Your body shouldn't be digesting food as you go to sleep. So it's gonna start telling your body, alright. I need to stay awake. You know, alcohol, that's gonna while it might put you to sleep, it's not gonna give you good sleep. And you can easily see that if you use, like, a tracker. And, you know, and, you know, those are some of the kind of the best things to kinda think about rest best practices. Really big on trying to get the phone out of the bedroom, off of screens about an hour before bed, and having creating some routine and consistency. You know, if you're going to bed at 08:00 one night, midnight the next, and you're going back and forth, your body doesn't know what goes on. Our nervous system is a predictive machine. It's constantly trying to figure out what's gonna happen, how it disallocate energy, where it just conserve energy. So if it doesn't know your natural schedule, it's gonna be hard for you to sleep well.

28:42 · Ranking the Big Five: Sleep, Stress, Movement, Food, Supplements

Tom Rowland: Yeah. I agree. So let's you you mentioned that sleep was number one. I'm wondering how you would rank these these things as far as sleep being number one. Let's say sleep, nutrition, exercise, supplements, mobility, and stress reduction or or just overall stress. I can repeat them if you if you want. So I'll just let you say sleep's number one.

Taylor Somerville: Yeah. Stress reduction and stress management is obviously if you're moving and you're eating well and you're sleeping well, your stress is gonna be less. Your ability to manage your stress. Because as I said, I don't really think about trying to get rid of stress. We don't wanna do that. Mhmm. We want stress. It's just being able to manage it properly, and those three things are great. You know, if you have if you're not moving at all, you know, make sure you're walking 8,000 steps a day. That's big. That's also gonna help improve your sleep. If you're eating a bunch of processed foods and shifts, you know, I I would say those are, like, top three. And then what was your stress management? I think I'm gonna

Tom Rowland: So those. Yeah. So right now, you've got sleep. Stress management is number two. Exercise is number three, I'm assuming. Then we got nutrition supplements and mobility.

Taylor Somerville: I would improve I put the mobility in with with the exercise. They should be together. You know, our bodies are going to we've gotta be use it or lose it all around. So if you're not able to get down into a deep squat, it's gonna be harder to pick up things up off the ground and get up and stand up as you get older. More likely to fall over, and break a boat as you get older. So I put the movement mobility as, like, one category. They need to go together. Okay. For sure. Supplements, I look at supplements as kind of the last thing.

Tom Rowland: Okay.

Taylor Somerville: Big on try to get the basics down first. I think in our environment nowadays, people tend to, you know, major in the minors more than anything, especially if you're watching, Instagram or health influencers, and they got certain protocols and supplements. Those might help you, but you need to be doing the other stuff first. If you're not doing that, then you're just kind of wasting your time and energy. So eat real food. You know? I'm big on, you know, lots of protein, fruits and vegetables, hydrate with lots of water, get your sleep in, make sure you're moving every day. And that's not just your one hour of working out. You know, something that we see a lot of people who are pretty fit and, you know, go to the gym every day, that could be the only movement they have. And that's not really good either. You know, you need to make sure you're getting up, walking, moving around. You know, as you go throughout your day, you can't just sit at the desk all day long. You need to have some other active movement as you you know, whether it's getting up every ninety minutes, kinda take a walk, something along those lines, but you gotta you gotta be active throughout the day. And that's where the supplements are last. That the older I've gotten on the I used to try almost every supplement I could get my hands on. Now I keep it down to as few as possible. It's not

Tom Rowland: Yeah. Well, as few as possible.

Taylor Somerville: As I can.

Tom Rowland: Right. I I I'm I'm with you there, and I think that you can get most of it from real food if you're actually eating it. But I do find that there are several, and you've already mentioned a couple of them, are already. But I do find that there's several that it seems like a lot of people are deficient in. And and if you're not getting your blood work done, maybe it's good to I don't know. I can just tell a difference when by for for example, if I'm getting enough sunlight and I'm manufacturing enough vitamin d, and you get in the wintertime, it's really dreary out, you're not going outside as much, supplement with vitamin d. I do, personally.

Taylor Somerville: Yeah. I

Tom Rowland: have to do with

Taylor Somerville: vitamin d. I think most people vitamin d, magnesium, creatine, all tend to be, I think, kinda go tos that most everybody could use, and it's not gonna really harm you. Fish oil is another one. Just wanna make sure you have a good quality brand there because if you're eating taking rancid fish oil, it's doing more harm than good, which is a little bit of a lot of supplements. You wanna make sure you have have good quality brands that you're taking.

33:11 · Creatine, Magnesium, and a 600-Page Book Called Win

Tom Rowland: Yeah. That's a trick, man, of knowing which ones are good and which ones aren't. I don't even know how you would even tell. It's like, it's so much marketing, and then you're just kinda you have to just put trust in in some. But I read this book. Do you know, James d Nicola d Nicolantonio? Do you know that guy?

Taylor Somerville: Do you

Tom Rowland: know who he is? I don't know. So James his name is James d Nicolantonio. It's a long name, but it's d I n I c o l Antonio, d d Nicolantonio. And he wrote this book. You would really like this book, I think. It's called Win, and he also wrote one called the Salt Fix and another one called the Mineral Fix, and he wrote he's got several called something fix. But then he's got one that's called win, and it's about competitive athletes and all these different studies that that that have been done on athletes as far as, like, supplementing sodium, electrolytes, sauna. There's a big big chapter in on sauna in there and becoming heat adapted for athletes. But but one of the things that he goes through in there and this guy's a pharmacist, and he has he he's a tremendous researcher. And the back of the book is about a 150 pages of references. So the book is, like, intensely referenced. And one of the things that I liked about that book so much is he has, like, the the top five supplements ranked in order of, data. And it's like beta alanine, protein powder, creatine well, creatine is number one. Like, creatine is, like, the most researched supplement with the most, of what do they call it? Effectiveness, efficiency? What do they call that? Efficacy? Yeah. Like, the efficacy of of creatine is has been has been studied and proven that that is, like, the most effective supplement that you can take. And then beyond that, it goes down and down and down to, like, this might work. I don't know. It has shown some benefits, but there's, like, five. There's, like, l citrulline, beta alanine, l carnitine, protein powder, and creatine, I think. Those are the ones that he says without a doubt, the the the research shows that these actually do what they're supposed to do. And then beyond that, you know, maybe maybe they work. You know? But he he just goes through so much data. You should really check that book out when

Taylor Somerville: Yeah. I have to check it out.

Tom Rowland: Thick. It's about 600 pages, but you'll you will probably read it like I did. I almost read that thing in one sitting. I love that book. I I used to have it down here. I don't know where it is. I'd show it to you, but, great big book. But he's a he's a good follow on Instagram too. He he usually puts a bunch of his stuff out there. But the magnesium, is another one that that just helps me sleep.

Taylor Somerville: Yeah.

Tom Rowland: I don't know why, but I take magnesium every night before I go to

Taylor Somerville: bed, and it's I take it before I go to bed as well.

Tom Rowland: Do you have a a type of magnesium? There's a lot of different types of magnesium. I think, like, five different types of magnesium.

Taylor Somerville: Used the bio optimizers, which is, like, all seven forms. I've used that brand for years now.

Tom Rowland: Yeah.

Taylor Somerville: I think I first heard about it maybe from Mark of mine, actually. Mhmm. Podcast years ago, and I started taking that, and I've just kinda stayed with it. I've tried some other ones, and I feel like that one, has done the best for me and also then caused any, like, you know, gastrointestinal issues.

Tom Rowland: Right.

Taylor Somerville: Some magnesiums can mess you up if you're not careful.

37:00 · The Cycle That Builds or Breaks You

Tom Rowland: That's that's very true. You know, what's kinda funny is, like, we we rank these things from one to five as far as the most important, and then we gravitate, even just you and me just sitting here talking, we gravitate to the one that we both said was the least important, the supplements. And it's like everybody's looking for a magic pill. Right? Everybody's looking for this one thing. But when you rank when you rank these others as the most important, sleep being the most important, stress management being the second most important, exercise and mobility, the third, nutrition and hydration, the fourth, and then supplements being the fifth. Those so many of those things build, in my experience, they build on one another. Like, if you're not sleeping well, you're gonna have more stress. Yep. If you have a lot of stress, you're not gonna sleep well. If you aren't getting any exercise, you're not gonna sleep well, and you're gonna have more stress.

Taylor Somerville: That's right.

Tom Rowland: It's like that's like a that's like a group of things.

Taylor Somerville: And then it's gonna cause you to eat

Tom Rowland: worse. Right. Yes. And then if you're eating if you're eating bad, then you're now you're gonna you're gonna have more stress. You're not gonna sleep well. You're not I don't know. Then you get overweight and then, like, so many thing. It just goes in this big circle and the cycle of, like, if you can try to I mean, I don't know. I guess that's what you're doing with your clients is, like, trying to break that cycle and trying to get people to understand that that you can take control over so many of these things. Yeah. Stress being one of them. And sometimes the stress is coming not from the external things in your life, but from the things that you're doing within your life, like you're not sleeping well. Why are you not sleeping well? Because you're not getting any exercise. Why are you not exercising? Because you don't feel like it. Because it hurts. Right? So exercise and mobility and all that stuff. I don't know. It all just kinda goes together, but I don't know that there's it's certainly a rare group of people that understands that they all they're all tied together and that you can actually do something about it.

Taylor Somerville: Our the mind body connection is real. You know, one of the things we talk about a lot too is is what are the stories you're telling yourself? What is that mindset? Are you telling yourself, I I don't wanna exercise. I can't exercise. I can't do x y z. You know, put people on ice baths. You can say, I don't like the cold. Well, is that you really not like the cold, or have you just been telling yourself the whole your whole life because when you were a little kid, your parents said something about the cold, and that just stuck with you, and now you don't like the cold. So it's all just as can you reframe your mindset around the stories that you tell yourself and then create some change around it? And I think that's a big thing. And that's also in stress. You know, if you view stress as detrimental, it's gonna hurt you, it's going to. If you view it as something that you need to grow and live and that it makes you better, then it's gonna do that. So, you know, our mind is very powerful in that way.

39:56 · Ice Baths, a 220-Degree Sauna, and Shared Suffering

Tom Rowland: How do you how are you incorporating ICE into into your program, either for your clients or for yourself?

Taylor Somerville: Well, we run sessions here. We're doing, you know, three rounds in the sauna, three rounds in the ice. I do run a few sessions, here. We have people who come and do this every week. We also do private work, you know, whether it's kinda team building corporate or, somebody just wanna have their friends. And then in our group coaching, and some of our workplace wellness through Memphis based, that that could be a part of it because it's also about building community. I think, you know, it's a great thing to do, but having doing it in a group with others Yeah. Is even better. When you get Yeah. To a little shared suffering in the ice, and then you get a sauna, which people a lot of people think of the sauna's great. It's easy. Our sauna's, like, 220, 230 degrees. So in Memphis, DC in August, the sauna is way harder than ice. But you get in there and, you know, people start talking and things come out. You can meet great people. So there's a big community building out aspect of it. You know, you have all the physical benefits. I mean, sauna's like one of the best things you can do for your long long term health. Also, you know, like you mentioned, the performance on heat adaptation, and some heat training is great for, like, endurance. And you're good for your immune system, your cardiovascular system. But I'm really big on the aspect of you know, for one, if you don't like it necessarily, doing something a little bit uncomfortable, learn how to control your breath, control your stress response, read your way out of it. And was alright. That wasn't that bad. I can put myself in stressful situations, and I can learn, and I can grow from it. You know? And as you get done, we do a session, three rounds. By the end of it, maybe it was tough at the beginning. You're usually feeling really good at the end. You got the dopamine and endorphins kicking, and that's gonna last a little while. So, you know, that we may they use it in those settings. And then personally, I do it a few times a week. I'm not big on doing it, every day necessarily, but I do do it a few times a week. I've gone through periods of time more Done every day.

Tom Rowland: Oh, yeah. I was wondering if you do it more for your for for the benefits of the mind or benefits of the body.

Taylor Somerville: I do.

Tom Rowland: I mean, it's particularly

Taylor Somerville: You know, and I'm

Tom Rowland: working Interesting.

Taylor Somerville: On the the mental aspect of doing it. I think that's That's

Tom Rowland: what I thought too. I mean, I've I've listened to so many of these these things, and and the ice training has gotten way more popular. And then I think it's kind of actually fallen off in popularity a little bit lately, but always, people are like, why why do you do that? And I I'm like, well, a lot of times I'm really sore, and it does help me to feel a lot better, you know, and it was it's, you know, for a while, I was going through something with my knee, and I don't know what it was, but basically, it's gone now. And, it definitely helps me feel better, but for the most part, that and the Wim Hof breathing for the mind. Like, it's not necessarily for the body. It's for the mind. And there's something about looking at that ice and just not wanting to get in it and then getting in it. And then then I love the the the going from the ice to the sauna. I love that. Yeah. I mean, I think that is, like, one of the greatest things ever. I wonder you say you do three rounds. How long are you going in the in the sauna and the ice each one? What is your room?

Taylor Somerville: What do they look like? We typically, you know, ten to fifteen minutes, maybe a little longer, ice, like three to five.

Tom Rowland: Yeah.

Taylor Somerville: When I'm running groups, it's typically about fifteen minutes in the sauna, three minutes in the ice.

Tom Rowland: Do you still have your sauna on a trailer?

Taylor Somerville: Yeah. I still have one on the trailer. Don't try not to take it anywhere.

Tom Rowland: That's so cool, though, when you were doing that. That's why that was just so cool, man.

Taylor Somerville: Yeah. You know, and I still, you know, still have that same sauna. Gonna hopefully upgrade here in the next, year or so. There's a lot a lot of new models that I've had that thing since 2018. It's gotten a lot of new

Tom Rowland: sauna. And that's the one that you do you have more than one?

Taylor Somerville: No. I just have one still.

Tom Rowland: How many people can get in that thing?

Taylor Somerville: We get eight people in there. It's it's tight fit, but, it's it's good to get eight people. And then I have three different, cold tubs. I have the old school trough. I have an ice barrel 300, and I have a cold plunge that's constantly going.

Tom Rowland: So You you should come to my house too because we got I got a similar thing. I've got a big sauna that was well, it it's a big sauna because it was my daughter's playhouse.

Taylor Somerville: And Nice. I

Tom Rowland: have she she never played in it. She I I've built this thing for her. I had it built for her. I'm not I'm not good enough carpenter to build it myself, but, I had it built for her. And she came back, and she looked at it when she was a little girl, and she didn't really like it. Now she is a sauna, fan, and she goes in the sauna all the time now. So, anyway, I I converted this into a giant sauna. I could probably put 25 people in there.

Taylor Somerville: Oh, wow.

Tom Rowland: It's big. And I've got a huge heater in there, and it will also get, really hot. Like, like like, what you're talking about, like, two twenty five. And, and then it's got two layers. So you can have it super hot, but if you get on the top Top,

Taylor Somerville: it's just off that.

Tom Rowland: It's hot. But then I got a Yeti, three fifty, where I which is really nice because I can close the top and nothing gets in it. You know? Yeah. Like and then I got, like, the horse trough thing too. But I love going from the ice to the sauna, back to the ice, back to the sauna. And I've I've been doing this thing where it's like a, you know, like, you'll you'll stay when I'm really going good. It'll be ten minutes in the ice and then twenty minutes in the sauna, then five minutes in the ice, and then ten minutes in the sauna, two minutes in the ice, and then I'll do usually another ten minutes in the sauna, but kind of like a like a almost twice as much. Yeah. Like, almost twice as much sauna.

Taylor Somerville: Ten minutes in the ice.

Tom Rowland: I love that feeling. It well, it is, and I don't I don't even know if it's good for you. I don't I don't wouldn't recommend it to anybody. But Yeah.

Taylor Somerville: You have it pretty, cold with that. If it's if it's cold enough, it's it's in its thirties. Definitely. It's Yeah. Cold. Yeah.

Tom Rowland: It it it's cold. It's very cold because

Taylor Somerville: I also have

Tom Rowland: a I have an I have an ice machine. So the ice machine with if you put eight eight five gallon buckets of of ice in the three fifty and then fill it up with water, it's it's good. But I'm kind of a wimp about putting my shoulders under the water. I don't like that's like Yeah. Get their stuff on my If I went all the way up to my neck, I wouldn't be able to stay in for ten minutes, I don't think. I mean, maybe in a survival situation or something, but it certainly wouldn't be fun. But I love that where you're just so cold and you get back in the sauna and then that moment where you turn from cold to now you're sweating, that's the greatest. Feel great. Greatest thing ever. I don't know if

Taylor Somerville: it's good for you to end all the time.

Tom Rowland: I well, I know that's what I'm supposed to do. So I it depends on is it winter or summer, and is it cold outside? I mean, typically, I'm I like the sauna a lot more than I like the ice. I would I mean, just as a just as a nature, I would rather be hot than cold. Mhmm. And so, typically, I'll probably end with the end with the the heat. Although, at the last thing, I'll, like, splash and, you know, do the whole nice. Yeah. But I don't like it.

47:32 · Resetting Your Circadian Rhythm With Cold and Heat

Taylor Somerville: Yeah. We always call it cold. I tell people, you know, just let your body warm up naturally at least for a little bit, then you can go out and take a warm shower. Right. So you can heat back up. There's some people, you know, body fat adaptation can take a while. But loving it on cold, it kinda feel like it kinda seals everything in. And, you know, another thing with the cold and the heat is if you do sleep poorly, it's a great way to kinda help reset your circadian. Cold in the morning and heat at night, is a good way to kinda tell your body, alright. So start waking up as the way your temperature should rise. If you get yourself cold in the morning, it's gonna kinda shock you a little bit, and then it's gonna weigh your temperature on you freeze. It's gonna set your circadian rhythm, and then your temperature drops at night. So if you decide at night, it kinda is gonna help give a boost to that cooling off process, which is Okay.

Tom Rowland: We did. Well, that could help a lot of people there. I know that, I remember reading in Tim Ferris's book that he suggested either a cold shower or, an ice bath before bed made him sleep, like, you know, really good. But that doesn't So, yeah, most people like it would rev me up.

Taylor Somerville: Yeah. It would I think

Tom Rowland: that would wake me up.

Taylor Somerville: It wakes most people up. And if you just look at the way our you know, temperature is kind of one of the gauges on how we sleep and everything. It's when we're the signals that we get. Digestion movement, temperature, and light are, like, the four, aspects of how our body kinda gets set into sleep. So our temperature rises all day long and then peaks later in the evening and starts to go down as you're getting going to sleep. As you're kinda cooling off, which makes sense because you're rest, your body shouldn't be as hot, so your temperature should come down regularly a little bit. And so you can just kinda kick start that in the morning with cold and at night with the summer.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. I mean, that sounds that sounds awesome. So many people have a hard time sleeping. I think that if you could just kinda if if anybody could take anything away from this conversation would be would be, you know, an aid to to kind of falling asleep a little bit faster. So we talked about the three things that you leave people with and and one of them being how you can sleep better. I know that Laird Hamilton in in the XPT breathing thing that I did, to be you know, to pass that certification or whatever. He talked about the seven that it was the seven count breath before you go to sleep was really important, and he he he even said in there. I don't really know why seven is like the number, but seven or more, for for this breathing in and then breathing out seven for seven seconds or whatever. But, anyway, maybe I'm not remembering it exactly right, but can you tell us how you, help people to kind of if if their mind is racing and they're kinda thinking about a lot of things when they when they're about ready to go to sleep. How what kind of breathing, protocol can you give somebody to to help them to clear their mind and maybe fall asleep a little faster?

50:33 · Breathing Yourself to Sleep: 3-3-6 and NSDR

Taylor Somerville: Yeah. So I I like an exhale focus, meaning longer exhale over the inhale. So inhale, say, for a count of three, hold at the top for a count of three, exhale for a count of six. Start there and then just gradually extend it out. So then maybe you go four, four, eight, five, five, ten. And as you kinda extend it out, your body's just gonna continually calm down, and usually you'll fall asleep before you you know it.

Tom Rowland: So when you're saying four four eight, explain that one more time so that you're breathing in for four seconds.

Taylor Somerville: You hold for three seconds. You breathe out for six seconds. Yes. Then you gradually go to in for four, hold for four, out for eight, in five, hold five, out to. That can be if you've never done it, it'd be a little bit more difficult. Most people can do Mhmm. Three seconds inhale, three second hold, six seconds exhale, and just kinda as you become comfortable, you start slowing it down even more. It can just kinda you off to sleep. Now

Tom Rowland: in your opinion, does it matter if you're doing it through your mouth or your nose

Taylor Somerville: or the fulmination of both? On a beat inhale, it's gonna be in through your nose, and exhale can be out of mouth.

Tom Rowland: Okay.

Taylor Somerville: And then another thing that we really like a lot is, non sleep deep rest. Also called yoga, which is basically progressive relaxation kinda go in, which helps put your body, in this

Tom Rowland: that. What

Taylor Somerville: It is. A lot of people do it in the middle of the day, as a way to kinda get, like, a quick map. It it basically can take your brain almost down into those delta waves where it's like a deep sleep, but it's shown to improve sleep latency, so your ability to go to sleep quicker. Usually, what you're doing is you're just, you know, kinda slow breathing, and then you're walking through, like, visualizing the room you're in and then kinda taking that visualization from external into internal where you're kinda slowly relaxing body parts. And then you kinda take it back to external. And it also helps

Tom Rowland: And people don't fall asleep when they do that? I would

Taylor Somerville: put them to sleep so fast. You're you're ideally not supposed to fall asleep, but some people, it's good. You can do it right before going to bed and you fall asleep.

Tom Rowland: See, my mom told me that how to do that when I was a kid. I don't think she she certainly didn't call it that, but she said, you know, imagine yourself laying here and imagine that you're made out of wax. And then imagine this warm candle under your feet that's just barely melting your your feet, and then imagine that it's going all the way up your legs, and you will never make it past your hips. Like, you never it I mean, you just it's just like when you can kind of visualize your feet melting, you're asleep immediately. But she used to tell me that, and then I told that to, my friend, Joe Hippensteel, and he was like, she was so far ahead of her time. That's called this and that, and I don't know if she knew what she was doing or not, but it I've it stayed with me my whole life. And, like, anytime I have any trouble going to sleep, I do that. And it's kinda like what you're talking about about relaxing body parts. Yeah. You know, like but if you imagine that, you know, if that's a if that's a, something that is is like, I guess, if you live in the desert, and you're dealing with hot temperatures all the time, maybe it would be more, relaxing to think about something cold. I don't know. But if you're in a, you know, in a place where it kinda warm feels good to you and you imagine melting, then that that definitely works. But some people start their head and work down. Other people start their feet and work up. It's not scientific, and my mom was probably just trying to get me to go to sleep. But, it worked. It worked really good. And then it's one of those things that stayed with me my whole life. Like, I don't know. I'd I'd but hearing you say it, it's like the same principle of, like, relaxing body parts, breathing, imagining different things. You're you're allowing your mind to to go quiet, and you're imagining just relaxation, which is kinda cool.

Taylor Somerville: And it just helps to down regulate the nervous system, which a lot of people have difficulty doing in any way in this day and age.

54:38 · The Hot Seat

Tom Rowland: Yes. Well and and particularly today. Alright. So the last couple of podcasts have been gone like this where we just get started and we have a nice conversation, but there is a part of the podcast where we're supposed to laugh and and I'm supposed to ask you these funny questions, that maybe would give us something to talk about in the in the case of the guest not being so talkative. But the last few, podcast guests have all been good, conversationalist like yourself, so we've just gotten into it. But, anyway, this is called the hot seat, and I'm gonna ask you this series of questions. And then we're gonna end with a couple of, a couple of other questions that, that you can give us your your opinion on. Alright. So a movie that makes you laugh.

Taylor Somerville: What about mom?

Tom Rowland: One thing you don't go a day without doing?

Taylor Somerville: Breathing.

Tom Rowland: True. Would you have a reptile as a pet? No. Three nonnegotiables in your life.

Taylor Somerville: Oh, let's see. Three nonnegotiables. Quality time with my, you know, wife and a girl movement, and always cheer for Alabama

Tom Rowland: full time. Nice. Chocolate or vanilla?

Taylor Somerville: Chocolate.

Tom Rowland: Text or call?

Taylor Somerville: Text.

Tom Rowland: Workout in the water or out of the water?

Taylor Somerville: In the water.

Tom Rowland: The most misunderstood thing in fitness or health?

Taylor Somerville: That everything has to leave you dead in a pool of your own sweat or it's not a good workout.

Tom Rowland: Coffee, tea, or energy drink?

Taylor Somerville: Coffee.

Tom Rowland: One thing that you've changed your mind on in the last two years?

Taylor Somerville: Not that everything doesn't have to be, you know, I guess, so strict that you gotta find what works for you. K.

Tom Rowland: Cuban food or Mexican food?

Taylor Somerville: Mexican.

Tom Rowland: One common misconception Well, we did that on health. One piece of advice that you rely on often.

Taylor Somerville: Remember who you are.

Tom Rowland: K. Has there been a book that you liked so much that you've given it as a gift?

Taylor Somerville: Of Anderson. Quite a few. But one of the ones that, I like now is the daily dad by Ryan Holiday.

Tom Rowland: Okay. I like Ryan Holiday's stuff. I hadn't read daily dad, but I certainly read, what was it, Ego is the Enemy? That was

Taylor Somerville: one of the things that I You know, he's got the book Daily Stoic. It's something you can read Mhmm. Every morning, and it's all geared towards parenting.

Tom Rowland: Well, I like that. That's definitely we'll have to look into that. We'll put it on the, on the book club. Okay. So, just a couple of questions that we'll we'll end on. So I'm wondering, like, in the last you know, since we talked last time, what have you added to your program for you or your clients, and and why have you added that? Have you have you changed anything that you're doing that you find really productive in either stress management or fitness or health?

58:11 · Email Apnea, Free Resources, and Defining Wellness

Taylor Somerville: Yeah. Well, I'd say well, I've always been in the breathing. Back when we first started talking, it was probably more of the kinda, like, lymphocytes like breathing. Well, now I go much more towards slow conscious breathing. Mhmm. Most people are already very activated and, you know, on that sympathetic side, so trying to take them the other way right out of the gate. And then the really big focus on, everyday breathing, what I call what I mentioned earlier, being lower, breathing slower through the nose as kind of the first gateway and making that shift almost before doing anything else. Those are those are the two of the big things that we've done over the last few years.

Tom Rowland: Okay. And then do you, are you doing anything in particular with mobility and stretching?

Taylor Somerville: We have some, tools that we use, and we have, stuff that open up, like, health with diaphragmatic breathing, open up the rib cage. I have a coach who works with me, Lauren Vestal. She's a yoga teacher. And so she's kinda put together some stuff that we use on that, and we'll, you know, we'll incorporate some yoga, with with our group sometimes as well. So I think it's a big app. I I go to I do mobility every morning. I can't even have my mobility routine on my on our YouTube channel.

Tom Rowland: Oh, yeah? I I think it's What's your YouTube channel?

Taylor Somerville: Yeah. I think it's important to open up, try to get all your joints moving as much as possible, especially as you get older. If you're if you're not using the full range of motion, your body's gonna take it away.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. Use it or lose it. That's for sure. What's your YouTube channel?

Taylor Somerville: It's at symmetry breath.

Tom Rowland: Okay. We'll link that.

Taylor Somerville: I can see.

Tom Rowland: We'll link that. So what do you think, as far as, like, you you you help a lot of people and a lot of people that are in different places. Some of you don't even wanna be there, and then other people are seeking you out on on so you have two different ends of the spectrum there. What do you think is something that anybody that's listening to this could do to improve their health and well-being?

Taylor Somerville: Start becoming aware of your breath. Notice it as you're going through your day. Notice

Tom Rowland: I like it.

Taylor Somerville: Or breathe in and out of your mouth, just naturally as you're sitting there and you're driving your car. Maybe you're sitting and swallowing on Instagram or you're answering emails while you're holding your breath. It's actually a thing term called email apnea, which is very common, which is just gonna put yourself in another stressed state. So be conscious of your breath and notice it. I mean, I think that is one of the biggest things you can you can start doing today.

Tom Rowland: So are there resources that people can that you would direct people to? Can they go to your stuff, or are there books that they could read? Or

Taylor Somerville: Yeah. You go to our website, symmetry, www.symmetry.live. We have a ton of free resources on there. There's actually we have a book reference list, bunch of different books. If you want a basic book on breathing, that I think is great. It's James Nestor's book, breath. It gives a lot of information, and I think that's a good place to start. But we have a lot of free resources on our sites in the field of life.

Tom Rowland: Cool. And the final question, what would you consider to be your definition of health, wellness, and illness? So maybe three different definitions.

Taylor Somerville: Health, wellness, and illness? Yep. Illness would be in incapacitated and not live up to, you know, do the things that you wanna do. Health, I look at or we'll say health and wellness. I look at it, I would say, on a good old Laird Hamilton point since you already mentioned him, don't be a liability. Be able to go out and do anything, whether that's go hike with your family and friends, throw the ball in the yard with the kids, do a hard workout, go swimming. Be able to move and do things in life, and don't not let your body and your mind be a limitation. And let's see what wellness

Tom Rowland: Would you consider I guess what I should ask you is do you consider there to be a difference between health and wellness?

Taylor Somerville: I would consider those the same.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. Yeah. I would think maybe you could be healthy without being without necessarily thriving. I would think wellness is thriving in every every every yeah. That I mean, that's what I kinda think of it as is, like, is, like, you're you're really thriving in every aspect of your life. That's wellness. Like, you're happy. You're sleeping well. You're you're fit. You're you're gaining. Like, you're getting stronger, not weaker. You're you're you're developing more range of motion rather than less less range of motion, and you're thriving. You know? That's what I would consider wellness.

Taylor Somerville: You're not the average. You're not the average American.

Tom Rowland: Right. Yeah. And and some people, you know, I think you could be somewhat healthy, but not necessarily thriving.

Taylor Somerville: I I can see it. I like that.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. Yeah. Well, Taylor, man, it's been awesome to reconnect with you, and I really hope that people, will reach out to you and check out your YouTube because, man, you know, if you are experiencing angst and anxiety and stress to to a degree that is more than normal, you're not the only one. I think a lot of people are are experiencing that particularly right now, particularly these few months leading up to the election of just unknown. You just don't know what's gonna happen. Nobody knows what's gonna happen, and I think that is I think that's putting a a stress on a lot of people. So there are ways that you can deal with it, and it has nothing to do with politics. You can just breathe. Right? You can

Taylor Somerville: just breathe. Good start. Can't do anything about the other.

Tom Rowland: That's right. That's right. So you might as well not even worry about it. But, yeah, the breath the breath has been something that has been a foundation in my in my fitness and my health, and, that's why Taylor and I first connected. So he's got a lot of really good resources. If you're interested in that and and how you can take control of your own health and fitness, go check him out. Alright, Taylor. Thanks, man. Thanks, Tyler. Appreciate it. We're gonna get together one of these days.

Taylor Somerville: Looking forward to it.

Tom Rowland: Alright. Roll tide even though my daughter goes to Auburn.