Tom Rowland Podcast Episode 107 is a conversation I recorded inside the Dolphin House in Bimini, Bahamas, with the man who built it, historian, poet, and self-taught artist Ashley Saunders. The Dolphin House is a one-of-a-kind monument Ashley constructed by hand over twenty-six years, entirely from recycled and found materials. We talk about the wild dolphins that turned him into an artist, his family's centuries-deep roots across the Bahamas and Key West, and what it was like growing up around Ernest Hemingway.
Listen now: press play in the player above to watch the full conversation, or stream Episode 107 on your favorite podcast app.
Ashley Saunders is a Bahamian historian, poet, and self-taught artist from Bimini, and the creator of the Dolphin House. A member of the prominent Saunders family that helped settle both Bimini and Key West, he describes himself as a gifted artist who was inspired entirely by swimming with the wild dolphins of Bimini. He is also a local historian who grew up around Ernest Hemingway and other figures who passed through the island.
The Dolphin House is an eclectic, one-of-a-kind building Ashley Saunders constructed by hand in Bimini over twenty-six years, from 1993 to 2019. It is built entirely from recycled and reused materials, things he found in the dump, on the beach, or that were given to him, with not a single item from a hardware store. Some of the walls are shaped like waves, and it stands as a monument to the wild dolphins that inspired him.
Ashley says his art was asleep inside him until he swam with the wild dolphins of Bimini, more than forty of them, and it changed him in seconds. He describes the moment like lightning striking, telling Tom it touched his heart and made him an artist on the spot. He had no formal art training and considers himself a gifted artist who owes his creativity and inspiration to those dolphins.
Ashley traces the Saunders family in the Bahamas back roughly four hundred years, to around 1646 and the Eleutheran Adventurers who arrived after the Sea Venture was shipwrecked at Eleuthera, an island whose name means freedom in Greek. His ancestors came to Bimini about two hundred years ago to salvage goods from wrecked ships, and the family has roots in both Bimini and Key West, where some relatives still live today.
The Saunders family has been part of the early settlers of both Bimini and Key West for about two hundred years, which is why the Saunders name appears in both places. Ashley explains the migration between the islands and the Florida Keys, a shared history Tom connected with directly because his own children were born in Key West as conchs.
Tom Rowland Podcast Episode 107 with Ashley Saunders is available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, and wherever you get your podcasts. The video version is embedded at the top of this page.
I went to Bimini with my family, partly because I had filmed there once before with Into the Blue and loved it. On a windy day we did the touristy things, and that led us to the Dolphin House. It floored me. When I learned that one man had built this place by hand over twenty-six years from things he found, I asked if he would sit down with me, even though he had no idea what a podcast was.
Press play in the player above to hear the whole conversation.
The Dolphin House is unlike anything I have ever walked through. Ashley built it over twenty-six years using only recycled and found materials, telling me not one thing in it came from a hardware store. Some walls are shaped like waves. Every corner holds something he salvaged, was given, or repurposed. He walks through how it all came together, piece by piece. Worth hearing in his own words.
Ashley says his art was asleep until the day he swam with the wild dolphins of Bimini. He describes it like lightning striking, a thing that happened in seconds and never left him. He had no training, no apprenticeship, no art school, just that one encounter and everything that flowed from it. The way he describes the moment is the heart of this whole conversation. Listen to that section of the episode.
If you know the Bahamas, you know the Saunders name. Ashley traces it back roughly four hundred years, through the Eleutheran Adventurers and the Sea Venture shipwreck, down to his ancestors who came to Bimini to salvage wrecked ships. He connects all of it to Key West, where my own kids were born. It is a remarkable oral history from a man who has spent his life keeping it. Press play in the player above.
Bimini drew remarkable people, and Ashley grew up around some of them, including Ernest Hemingway. As the island's historian, he carries the stories of who came through and why. We only had about thirty minutes before I had to catch a plane, but he packed it with history you cannot get anywhere else. Scroll up and watch the player above.
Listen to the full conversation: press play in the YouTube player at the top of this page.
What stays with me about Ashley is that he treated a single encounter with wild dolphins as a calling and then spent twenty-six years answering it, by hand, with whatever the island gave him.
I have climbed and traveled and chased fish all over the world, and he told me sitting with those dolphins beat all of it. After an hour in his house, I believe him.
Press play in the player above to hear how it all fits together.
Ashley Saunders · The Dolphin House · Bimini, Bahamas · Key West · Eleuthera · Ernest Hemingway · Into the Blue · The Eleutheran Adventurers · Nassau
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Ashley Saunders is a Bahamian historian, poet, and self-taught artist from Bimini and the creator of the Dolphin House, a monument he built by hand over twenty-six years entirely from recycled and found materials. A member of the prominent Saunders family that helped settle both Bimini and Key West, he became an artist after swimming with the wild dolphins of Bimini and has devoted his life to art, poetry, and preserving the history of his island.
Full transcript of the Tom Rowland Podcast, Episode 107 with Ashley Saunders.
Tom Rowland: I recently was able to go to Bimini, Bahamas with my family. This was just a family trip. I had been there one time before with Into the Blue, and we filmed some nice episodes on Bimini and some other islands in the Bahamas. I liked it so much when I was there that I was thinking, you know what, this would be a great place to bring the family back. And I was right. It was fantastic.
Tom Rowland: We swam with dolphins. We got in a cage with bull sharks. We got to go out spearfishing. We caught conch and ate them. We had conch and lobster salad. We sampled the local cuisine. I wrecked my diet and ate all kinds of Bimini bread, including some Bimini bread pizza with lobster on it, which is literally probably the best pizza I have ever had in my life. There were so many good things about Bimini, and we managed to get out on the water when the weather was nice.
Tom Rowland: Like most times, the weather is not always nice. So we hit one windy day, and it was a good thing because we were all kind of tired. We had been in the water. We had snorkeled and free dived and did all kinds of stuff. So it was a nice day, and we decided we were going to do some of the touristy things in Bimini. And that led us to a place there called the Dolphin House.
Tom Rowland: The Dolphin House is a very eclectic, one of a kind place that a gentleman has been building for twenty six years, and it is a work in progress. It is being built with recycled, reused materials, things he found in the dump, things he found on the beach, things that have been given to him. He says not one thing is from Home Depot. And when I say it is one of a kind, it is truly one of a kind. Some of the walls are built like waves. There is every manner of thing in there, and it is really one of the coolest places I have ever been.
Tom Rowland: It was a real pleasure to get a tour from the man who built it, mister Ashley Saunders. And if you are familiar with the Bahamas, you know the Saunders name. It is a prominent family in the Bahamas. Some spell it S-A-U-N-D-E-R-S. Some spell it S-A-N-D-E-R-S. Saunders are also in Key West, and I learned a little bit of the history about the connection between Bimini and Key West when I was talking to Ashley.
Tom Rowland: Ashley is a remarkable guy, and this inspiration all came from one day of swimming with wild dolphins. It was like lightning struck, he said. I had to ask him about it. It was interesting because I asked him if he would mind sitting down, if he knew what a podcast was. He did not know what a podcast was. I asked him if he knew what a radio show was, and he did not seem to care much about a radio show. And I asked him if he would just sit down and tell his story and I could record it. He said, well, how long is it going to take? I said, not very long, because I have to catch a plane here in just a little bit.
Tom Rowland: So we had about thirty minutes to sit down. He was so kind and nice to sit down and give me all kinds of history about his own history, why he built this Dolphin House, his history with growing up around Ernest Hemingway and other people that came to Bimini. It was just a remarkable conversation. I hope you enjoy it as much as I did. This is a unique and special opportunity to sit down with someone who is a historian of Bimini, as well as just a really cool guy and inspired artist, Ashley Saunders.
Tom Rowland: Alright. I am sitting here in the Dolphin House with Ashley Saunders, the man himself. Tell me about growing up in Bimini and your family's history here.
Ashley Saunders: Well, my family came to Bimini about two hundred years ago to salvage goods from wrecked ships. We are part of the early settlers of Bimini. We call ourselves shipwreckers. But that is on the Saunders part of the family, because each family, as you know, has two sides. My mother is a Duncombe. Her family is part of the slaves brought in by the British when there was a British colony. So that is on my mother's side, the Duncombe, D-U-N-C-O-M-B. But my father's side is Saunders, S-A-U-N-D-E-R-S. One very distinguished surname, and some people spell it differently than others, but we are still all in one family.
Ashley Saunders: We have been in the Bahamas, the Saunders family, for at least about four hundred years, since about 1646. We came to the Bahamas with captain William Sayle from Bermuda. Captain Sayle was a former governor of Bermuda, and he had run into a lot of problems in Bermuda. So he left Bermuda with a group of colonists and decided to sail south towards the Bahamas, and he was shipwrecked in the Bahamas. His boat was named the Sea Venture, and our family, the Saunders, was one of the colonists captain William Sayle brought from Bermuda.
Ashley Saunders: So he was shipwrecked on Eleuthera. They called themselves the Eleutheran Adventurers, and Eleuthera means freedom in Greek. So they named the island Eleuthera, where they were shipwrecked. And then they had to seek shelter in a cave temporarily, and later on they moved from Eleuthera to an island just north of it, just off the coast, called Harbour Island. And that is where the Saunders family really originated in the Bahamas, from Eleuthera.
Ashley Saunders: Some of the relatives are still in Eleuthera, and then some left in about 1646 and went to Nassau, where they also helped to spread the Saunders family. Then about two hundred years ago, some of the Saunders in Harbour Island left and migrated to Key West, Florida, and then on to Bimini. So we came to Bimini from Key West. Some of the family is still in Key West today, and some are in Bimini now. But we have been in Bimini, like I said, for two hundred years, and also Key West for two hundred years. We are part of the early settlers of both Key West and Bimini.
Tom Rowland: Yeah. My kids that were just in here taking a tour of your house, one of them is a conch, Key West born.
Ashley Saunders: Okay.
Tom Rowland: We spend a lot of time in Key West and lived there for a long time. All three of my kids were born there.
Tom Rowland: So tell me, what is this place that we just took a tour of, the Dolphin House?
Ashley Saunders: Well, the Dolphin House is a place that I have been building for twenty six years, since nineteen ninety three. From 1993 to 2019 makes twenty six. And the inspiration for the Dolphin House all came about by me swimming with the wild dolphins in the ocean many years back. The dolphins, you can say, touched my heart and made me an artist, and I am building this monument in their honor. The art was actually in me, but asleep, and the wild dolphins of Bimini, more than forty of them, touched my heart and made me an artist. So this art situation was thrust upon me by the wild dolphins of Bimini.
Ashley Saunders: I am not a typical artist that you find who studied art or worked as an apprentice. I am a gifted artist, and thanks to the wild dolphins of Bimini. So actually, I am trying to repay a debt to the dolphins with the creativity and inspiration they give to me.
Tom Rowland: So how did that come about? When you swam with those dolphins so many years ago, you came back immediately transformed into an artist?
Ashley Saunders: Immediately. Yeah. It happened in seconds. Like lightning struck.
Tom Rowland: And what was the first thing that you created when you came back?
Ashley Saunders: Well, I tried to dig a foundation to build a house, a monument to the wild dolphins of Bimini.
Tom Rowland: So it was like a lightning strike. You said, I am building this monument for them.
Ashley Saunders: No, it did not happen quite like that. What it was, when you get that, it was like a spiritual journey. This is something that happened to me that is a spiritual quest, you could say. When you say the dolphins touched my heart, the transformation that happened is something where, in other words, you have been reborn. This is like I am all new again. This is a reboot.
Tom Rowland: So you have been looking at the world from a different perspective than when you went to swim with the dolphins.
Ashley Saunders: I came out totally transformed and saw the world differently from when I encountered the dolphins. This is a complete opposite of when I went in there. It changes your philosophy in life when things like that happen. I am sure other people can testify to the same thing happening to them too, in other ways, not necessarily through dolphins, but people being transformed in other ways in their life. Maybe they climb the mountain and got to the top. Like when a man climbs Mount Everest, he was transformed. Or the first man that ever saw the Pacific Ocean, like Balboa, when he saw the Pacific, he might have been transformed. And for me, it was swimming with the wild dolphins. So we get transformed in different ways. This is a spiritual thing for me.
Ashley Saunders: I am an artist, but I do not know anything about art. So if you could figure that out.
Tom Rowland: Well, I think a lot of times you can study things at universities or under a mentor, but that does not necessarily mean you learn as much about whatever it is you are studying as if you are doing it yourself with your own hands.
Ashley Saunders: Well, that is what I am trying to say too. When I say I do not know anything about art, yes, I do know about art, because I am putting things in the right place, and art is only pleasing to the eyes. When I say I do not know anything about art, I am not the type of artist that can answer the question, what is art? Because they have learned that in school, and they have been taught how to mix paint, how to apply paint, what is texture, and what is this and what is that. Well, I am not that type of artist.
Ashley Saunders: I am an artist who recycles objects, or I can see beauty in a particular object. True intuition is what I rely on. Intuition and imagination and dreams is the kind of artist I am. I can see the art in the particular thing I pick up, like, for instance, a seashell or a beach glass, and see through intuition where to place it in the structure, where it belongs. And I know it is in the right place because people comment and say to me, you are an artist. Yes. Because when they look at everything that I do in terms of art, they can find no fault. The critics.
Ashley Saunders: And people compare me and some of my work. They say, okay, that looks like Michelangelo, or that looks like Gaudi, or this reminds me of Gaudi, or I think of Michelangelo when I see this particular piece. So that is the kind of artist I am. I am being compared to some of the world's great artists, even though I am not a trained artist.
Tom Rowland: Well, what you have created here is truly amazing. And you were also saying on the tour, you were making a comment about how you were recycling things and using things differently, and where all this stuff came from. Tell me.
Ashley Saunders: Well, that all comes through intuition too, like I say, and dreams. What the dolphins did, going back to the wild dolphins, that is all attributed to the encounter with wild dolphins. If I did not encounter the wild dolphins, this whole artistic situation, everything I am talking about right now, the Dolphin House in particular, would not even have come into being. So I am thanking the wild dolphins of Bimini for the creativity and inspiration that they give to me that caused me to be an artist. They touched my heart and soul and mind and my being and my intuition and imagination, and that caused me to be an artist. So by means of respect and honor and gratitude, I need to return the favor back to the dolphins. This is my way of thanking them for the wonderful thing they did to me by making me an artist.
Ashley Saunders: And not only an artist, but making me an architect too, because I am building a building without a blueprint, and also an engineer. I am an engineer and an artist and also an architect. So these are all attributed to the dolphin encounter. It is not just about the artwork. It is about the whole structure. I mean, you look at the building itself. It is an architectural phenomena. It is a one of a kind, and you would not, you could not even imagine it. You have got to see it and experience it. You have got to come in and experience this Dolphin House. It is really unique.
Tom Rowland: What I noticed right away, and you mentioned it on the tour, is that it is a mix between straight lines and curved lines like the ocean. Some of your walls are curved like the waves of the ocean, and then you have the big buttresses of the conch shells and how you have used all the different shells and all of the different materials that you found right here on the beach. It is really quite amazing.
Ashley Saunders: Yeah. And the amazing thing about this is that there is no blueprint. There is no payroll. I am working at what people call a labor of love. I have been waking up for twenty six years without pay and without sponsorship and without help, really, except for the fact that I think I have been blessed. And I thank God for the good health and the strength to be able to construct a three story building out of concrete with a shovel, without machinery.
Tom Rowland: Yeah. And that concrete that you have constructed this out of, this is all made from conch and shells, right?
Ashley Saunders: Mostly conch and shells. And not only conch and shells, but other recycled materials left over from other jobs and building sites, even demolished buildings and the city dump and the beach and the churches and the hotels and the resorts and the private homes and so on.
Tom Rowland: How did you learn how to make your own concrete?
Ashley Saunders: Well, I have been watching the old folks back in the old days making concrete, burning conch shell and stones like limestone and also coral to get the calcium. So I learned that from growing up. My father, in fact, was a builder, and I saw him do it too. I was his apprentice, and so I had some ideas as a young man on construction. But most of what I am doing is common sense, really. You do not really have to go to school to be an architect, or to be an engineer, or even to be an artist. All it takes is common sense and the will to do it. This is all about perseverance. It is all about will and all about faith.
Tom Rowland: But so much of it also is about the inspiration that you got from the dolphins. How would your life have been different if you had not gone swimming with the dolphins that day?
Ashley Saunders: There would have been no Dolphin House. It would not have been here, and I would not have been building it as such. I would have been going about a daily routine life as the common man on the street, probably sitting on the beach or maybe drinking some rum and coconut water or just passing the time away and not accomplishing much, living just day to day as the common man does.
Tom Rowland: You built this, and you were showing me that the walls were completely solid concrete, and you mentioned the hurricanes. How many hurricanes is this?
Ashley Saunders: Well, I have been in eight hurricanes in this so far. Over the twenty six years, eight in twenty six. That is about one storm every three years or so. But anyway, I have been in Katrina, Wilma, Jeanne, Ivan, Michelle, Sandy, and others. There were eight hurricanes, and these hurricanes were very vicious and killers, took lives. Some of them took hundreds of lives. Some even took thousands of lives and caused billions and billions in property damage. And yet the Dolphin House has survived them all without a scratch.
Ashley Saunders: It is built like a fort. There are only three things you have got to know in good construction, or to become a good architect. Number one, a house needs to be strong. Number two, a house needs to be useful. And number three, a house needs to be beautiful. Once you have those three criteria in the back of your mind, you do not need to go to architectural school. Those are the only three things I am applying to the building of this beautiful, unique structure. It is called the Dolphin House.
Tom Rowland: I love how you just find all these different things. It is hard to tell, but there are beer bottles, full size beer bottles. There are rum bottles. And as we were walking around, you had a story for every one of these little things. You would just point at something and say, this was given to me by this person, I found this on the beach, this is bamboo probably from Cuba. When you walk around this place, does every little thing you look at just trigger your memory of how you found it?
Ashley Saunders: Everything has got a story in it. I know where everything is. I could point to everything in here and who brought it and where it came from, even right down to the beer bottles, and even the little stamps. The Dolphin House comprises a gift shop, a mini museum, a showroom on the second floor, and an observatory on the rooftop, the third floor. The third floor is a work in progress. Actually, it is three stories, all solid concrete, built for hurricanes, like I say, because you would be stupid to build a house and not make it hurricane proof. Why build a house if the storm is going to blow it down, or if you are going to have to abandon the house to go seek shelter somewhere else at some other man's house? That does not make any sense.
Ashley Saunders: And the thing about it is that a house should also be useful. In other words, the Dolphin House is livable. It can maintain itself. It has a gift shop. It pays its own utility. It provides me with an income. It generates money from the visitors who come and leave a donation or a deposit for the tour. At the same time, it provides shelter for people who are seeking shelter, who are on the island during a hurricane, which we have done in the past. We have had Americans, Europeans, Canadians, even Bahamians holed up in here seeking shelter in hurricanes past.
Ashley Saunders: So that makes it very useful and purposeful. Like I say, a good architect is all about good architecture. At the same time, the Dolphin House is pleasing to the eyes, and that is what good architecture is all about. When you look at a building and you can say to yourself or to others, that is beautiful, or that is breathtaking, or that is wonderful. We have run out of adjectives as far as it goes there with people. We keep hearing people say it is amazing, it is beautiful, it is one of a kind, it is a must see. How many adjectives are there to use? We hear the same thing over and over. For the last twenty six years I have been hearing that, which is wonderful to me, because it is all inspiring.
Ashley Saunders: Since there is no payroll, when somebody says to me it is beautiful, I think that is rewarding to me. That is like a check they just wrote to me when they say it is beautiful. That is my pay, man. And that is what keeps me going. That is a big pat on my shoulder. That is why I am so determined to get the job done and to complete the project. Of all the jobs I have had that were paying money, this is the best job I ever had that does not pay any money, because I am enjoying this. This is a fun project. I have got no boss over me. There is no punch clock. There is no time limit. I can attend to it at any time I feel like. I wake at my own leisure, at my own pace, and I am my own boss. That is why I am doing such a wonderful job with this Dolphin House, because there is no punch clock and no payroll.
Tom Rowland: Well, what is remarkable to me is that you have maintained this intense inspiration and motivation to continue this project of love out of that one day of inspiration from the dolphins. Did you ever have to return to swim with the dolphins to get additional inspiration, or was the one time enough?
Ashley Saunders: One time is enough. I do not have to go back there, but I do like to go back out there, because they are my family, my friends, my loved ones, the wild dolphins. So it is always a pleasure to go back and greet them and see them and exchange love and greetings, to have them brush against me and to look in their eyes and have fun and play and enjoy the experience over and over again. There is no such thing as you have had enough. But I do not necessarily have to go back. It only took that one initial swim.
Tom Rowland: That is amazing.
Ashley Saunders: I did not go with that in my mind. It never occurred to me that I would be inspired as such when I first went to swim with the wild dolphins, mind you. I did not go thinking I am going to go get inspiration. I thought I went out there for the experience, like you are going fishing or going to the baseball park or something. I did not expect it to be a life changing experience for me.
Tom Rowland: So when you got back from that trip, did your family and friends immediately notice the difference?
Ashley Saunders: I do not know that. I never followed up on that, but I noticed it in myself. I could see the change, and it made a big difference. Because why would I be building a monument for twenty six years without pay?
Tom Rowland: Right. So part of being an artist, I noticed downstairs you also wrote two books on Bimini. Is that correct?
Ashley Saunders: I wrote in all my lifetime, I wrote eight books in my life. I wrote two volumes published, and one volume still in the computer, on the history of Bimini. Actually, I have three volumes written, two published, one still in the computer. But I also wrote four volumes of poetry. I am also a poet. And not only just an ordinary poet, I am a distinguished poet, an award winning poet, and also an award winning historian. They call me the poet historian in the Bahamas.
Ashley Saunders: Actually, I am, you could say, a jack of all trades type person who has a lot of talent. And like the holy bible says, if you use your talent, you will be given more talent, or your talent will be increased. That is what the Lord said, and that is what I do. So I do not sleep on talent. I do not bury talent. I use the talent that I have, and that is why I am so successful. The things that I achieve are always commendable and rewarding and universal too. I have been doing things that are pleasing to people from all walks of life and all nations.
Tom Rowland: Let's talk about the history of Bimini a little bit. You have seen a tremendous change in the world since you have lived here. How old are you? How old did you say?
Ashley Saunders: Well, it is hard to say how old I am, but I have been around.
Tom Rowland: You have been around.
Ashley Saunders: You can say that. In the days we do not keep too close a check on time, because time is pretty much irrelevant, and we call ourselves on island time. The important thing is to try, from sunrise to sunset, to see how much you can accomplish in the day, while there is still light out, and not to worry too much about the time. Time will take care of itself. We see how much we can accomplish.
Ashley Saunders: I have seen things, I could say. I have seen in my days, in the island there, when we had to go to the well to fetch water because there was no running water in the house. And we drank water at room temperature in the bucket, and no one knew what ice water was, because there was no ice, and we cooked on a wooden fire. So I did see changes over my lifetime. And of course, having to rely on the coconut for sustenance, having to catch fish to eat, or having to go find conch and living off the land, and raising chickens and raising goats and pigs, growing corn and growing crops. So I have been in those days, and walking barefoot. Compare that to today, and going to school with a slate, which is a piece of stone, and writing on it with chalk and no book. So I have come that far. I have been around a long time. I will let you figure out the time.
Tom Rowland: And what about some of the notable people that have been part of the Bimini culture, like Ernest Hemingway? I know there is a tremendous amount of history with Hemingway downstairs. You were part of that. You were here when he was frequenting.
Ashley Saunders: Well, Hemingway is a close family friend, in other words, because a lot of Hemingway's associates and people he was around on this island so happened to be my family, which is the Saunders. We entertained Hemingway when he was on the island in the thirties. My uncle played the banjo and used to entertain Hemingway when he came in from fishing. That is my uncle Nat Saunders, Piccolo Pete, we call him, that played the banjo and sang a lot of songs.
Ashley Saunders: In fact, he recorded one of his songs called The Big Fat Slob, which was a big hit in the thirties, about the fight between mister Knapp, who was a writer, and mister Hemingway arguing over big fish. So that is a recording on one of Piccolo's CDs called Bimini Nights, where he recorded The Big Fat Slob. Oh, the big fat slob in Bimini, that is the night we have fun. Ernest Hemingway, papa, mister Knapp called Ernest Hemingway a big fat slob. Ernest Hemingway balled his fist and gave him a knob. Oh, the big fat slob in Bimini, that is the night we have fun. So that is his song.
Ashley Saunders: Anytime, anyway, Hemingway put up a hundred dollar bill back in 1936 for anybody who could go boxing with him. He had brought some boxing gloves to Bimini in 1936, and he took ropes off the pillar and tied them around the coconut tree and made a boxing ring, and put up a hundred dollar bill for anyone who could go boxing with him. Two of my uncles went to box with Hemingway, and he knocked them all out trying to get the hundred dollar bill. Hemingway was a good boxer. Nobody really won that hundred dollar bill.
Ashley Saunders: Hemingway was built like a heavyweight, big barrel chest and big arms, big legs. Because he was so athletic, as he grew up in America, he went on a lot of fishing trips as a young boy and a lot of hiking and hunting, so he was very strong. And he was in good condition. And of course, when he was a young man, he spent a lot of time boxing, in boxing matches. So he had good skill and technique in boxing. Whereas my uncles were pretty much green and did not really know the skill of boxing.
Tom Rowland: Right.
Ashley Saunders: But they were heavyweights just the same. It is just unfortunate that they did not know how to train, but they were brave enough and courageous enough to stand up in the ring with him. Hemingway, hats off to him for being a good boxer as well as a good fisherman and an adventurer and a hunter. Although he was not all that good a hunter, because he did damage one of his eyes in boxing as a young man, so he really could not see too good with one eye. He always had to wear glasses when he was writing. The only time he did not really wear glasses was when he was fishing, simply because of that bad eye from boxing that was very well damaged. But anyway, he was still a good boxer.
Ashley Saunders: But like I say, not only Ernest Hemingway, but Ernest Hemingway's family and the Saunders family have always been close. Leicester Hemingway used to sleep on my mother's porch. He was the editor of the Bimini News and spent a lot of time in Bimini. A lot of the time, he hiked to Bimini, caught a ride over here on some yacht, or maybe once in a while he got a free ride on a plane, and then he did not have a round trip ticket to get back. Sometimes, if he did not hike back and he got stuck here, he would end up sleeping on my mother's porch. We always had a couch on the front porch, and that is where he would end up sleeping.
Ashley Saunders: Leicester Hemingway, Ernest Hemingway's brother, wrote a book called My Brother, Ernest Hemingway, and gave me a copy of the book. In fact, I gave him a copy of my book, which was at that time a poetry book that I wrote, and so we exchanged books. I have got his autographed book downstairs that Leicester Hemingway wrote to me.
Tom Rowland: Yeah. We are going to cut it off here in just a second. They will wait for us. So let me ask you one last question before we go. If you were to give somebody some advice, I think the story that you tell about the inspiration that you got from that one day that you swam with the dolphins, I think that is what most people in this world are looking for. They are looking for that inspiration. They are looking for that experience that changes their life and gives them the motivation and inspiration. How does someone find that?
Ashley Saunders: The thing about it is that you have got to open up your heart, your mind, to accept these things, to be receptive when it happens, when the experience comes to you. You have got to be able to have the freedom to absorb the experience. My recommendation is that you have to believe that you can be inspired and have an open mind and positive thinking. And the easiest way to be inspired is to swim with the wild dolphins. It is better than climbing a mountain or jumping out of a plane in a parachute or trying to swim in the deep ocean.
Ashley Saunders: The dolphins are out there. They are mammals. They have been on the earth for thirty million years. We have only been, as humans, on the earth for, in good measure, two million years. I mean, the dolphins are at least twenty eight million years on the earth before us, and they have evolved in terms of evolution. They have had twenty eight million years to develop their brains. And in fact, they have developed sonar. They have lived on the earth as land mammals, and they made their successful journey to the ocean and became successful ocean roaming mammals. So they have a sonar that they can send out that we do not possess.
Ashley Saunders: The dolphins have a well developed brain. They can send out the sonar on their brainwave and get information back, which we lock in. They can accelerate our outlook, our mind, and speed up the learning process. That is why I recommend that you swim with the wild dolphins. Everybody on this earth should swim with the wild dolphins, and they will become a better person. Because the dolphins, more than any other animal, more than a dog, your dog is not going to do it for you. Your cat is not going to do it for you, because they do not have the sonar. They are not, you could say, evolved as such.
Ashley Saunders: The dog did not live on the earth and then live in the sea like the mammal has done, the dolphin. Remember, the dolphin was on the land, mind you. He went into the sea and became a successful ocean roaming mammal. The dog never done that. The dog is not evolved like that, neither did a cat, neither did a monkey, neither any one of your pets. Your squirrel, your skunk, or whatever you have got for a pet, your lizard, whatever, is not capable. The dolphin relates to you on a different level altogether from your pet and other pets.
Ashley Saunders: And I am not talking about the dolphin inside of a pen. I am not talking about him, the dolphin inside of Disney World or Sea World or Atlantis, where the dolphin has been paid to swim with you and do tricks for you. I am talking about the dolphin in the wild ocean, who does not know you, not being paid. He is not being given a reward. He is out there in the wild where he is not captive. We do not swim with captive dolphins in Bimini. We do not keep captive dolphins. All the dolphins we swim with are in the wild, and I want you to note that. I did not go swim with a dolphin in a pen. I swam with dolphins in the ocean.
Ashley Saunders: And one of the things about swimming with the dolphins is that you get rid of your fear, what you would call your anxiety. Even if you cannot swim and you go see a dolphin, you will forget about the fact that you cannot swim. That is the kind of thing a dolphin will do to you. You will forget about a shark. You will forget that you are afraid of water, or afraid of the ocean, or afraid of the depth. All these things you throw out the window.
Tom Rowland: I saw it happen with my daughter.
Ashley Saunders: A lot of things too, especially if you have chronic depression, it will get rid of that for you too. If your mind is all clogged up and you are suicidal and this and that, then you have got a bunch of negativism about you. It makes you all in all a greater human being. You will become more loving, and you will love your fellow man. And a lot of things that you have now that you think mean so much to you, the dolphins will tell you to throw it out the window. Because a lot of things we value in our life are just what society has thrust upon us, and we are just trying to follow the status quo. We want to do things because we see things our neighbor has, and we want the same things that our neighbor got. We look over the fence, and we want to possess them too.
Ashley Saunders: And the dolphins will get you, you will be surprised to know how many things you will flush down the drain, things that you believe in and that you think mean so much to you. They will touch your heart like you touched mine. You will be a better person and, of course, a better human being. And then, of course, your freedom. You will enjoy your freedom, because that is what the dolphins teach too. But having fun, that is what they taught me. The dolphins taught me, let's go and have fun and let's play. Where have you been all the while, mister Saunders? You are our family. Come along with us.
Ashley Saunders: And if there was any way that I could be out there with them and not come back to the land, I would still be out there with the dolphins. That is what they do to me. You want to go with them, man. You will give up everything to try to swim along with them. But you are not capable, because you are only human, because you do not have the breath. You do not have the capabilities. You do not have the power to go along with them. But if you could have, I am sure you would have.
Tom Rowland: Yeah. Well, that is an amazing story. And that one day of inspiration sure has touched the world. You have done an incredible thing with all your writing and your poetry and building this place, and I want to thank you for sitting down with us. And if you are out there listening, man, come to the Dolphin House. Check it out, and you will be as impressed as I am. Thank you very much.
Ashley Saunders: Thank you.
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