Episode 11 of the Tom Rowland Podcast is my conversation with Matt Lawson, who shares with me an experience that was profound for both of us: SEALFIT Kokoro. Kokoro is a roughly 50-hour crucible event where you train with current and former Navy SEALs and BUD/S instructors, including SEALFIT founder Mark Divine, on a cold California beach. Matt signed up while getting ready for the birth of his son, looking to get back in shape and find his why, and he came out the other side a different person.
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Matt Lawson is a guest on the Tom Rowland Podcast who shares a powerful personal experience with Tom: completing SEALFIT Kokoro. He is not a professional athlete or special operator, but a regular person who pushed himself through one of the hardest civilian endurance events in the country. Motivated by becoming a father, he used Kokoro to get back in shape and reset his priorities.
SEALFIT Kokoro is a crucible event, roughly 50 hours long, where civilians train with current and former Navy SEALs and BUD/S instructors, including SEALFIT founder Mark Divine. Modeled on the spirit of SEAL training, it is held on a cold California beach and is designed to push participants far beyond what they believe their limits are, physically and mentally.
Matt was preparing for the birth of his son and realized that, while focused on his job and family, he had let his own physical health slide. The coming responsibility of fatherhood became a major motivator to get back in shape, reevaluate his priorities, and find a deeper sense of purpose, so he looked to the extreme and signed up for Kokoro.
According to both Matt and Tom, the real value of Kokoro is not finishing the event, it is being forced to answer why you are doing what you are doing with your life. Soaked, sandy, and exhausted at three in the morning, Tom says he came to grips with his purpose, and everything else, his business, his family, his decisions, became clearer and easier afterward.
Tom says the event was profound. He went in thinking he was a decent leader and came out understanding far more about leadership. His business saw real success afterward, and more importantly his family grew closer as his leadership improved. He also learned to say no to opportunities that did not fit his mission and purpose.
Tom Rowland Podcast Episode 11 with Matt Lawson is available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube. The video version is embedded at the top of this page.
Matt and I do not share the usual outdoor-industry resume, but we share something else: SEALFIT Kokoro. That event was profound in my life. It forced a gut check on my leadership, and in hindsight there is a person who signed up for it and a different person who came out the other side. I wanted to catch up with Matt because there has been some time since he graduated, and I wanted to know whether he felt the same, and what his reasons were for going in the first place. His answer is worth hearing.
Press play in the YouTube player at the top of this page to hear the whole conversation.
Kokoro is roughly fifty hours of training with real Navy SEALs and BUD/S instructors on a cold California beach. It might be hard to understand how that makes you a better fishing guide, outfitter, or TV host, but I can promise you it did for me. Matt and I walk through what the event demands of you, and what it strips away. Listen to him describe it.
The thing I was not expecting was how hard those instructors push you to find out why you do whatever it is you do. Once questions like why am I devoting my life to this, and what am I really trying to accomplish, come into focus, everything else in life gets easier. Hear how Matt found his answers in the episode.
Matt had been so focused on his job, his business, and his growing family that he forgot about his own health. The birth of his son was the wake-up call. He talks about realizing that if you are not physically healthy and strong, you cannot be the person you could be for the people who depend on you. Press play in the YouTube player above.
For me, the real test of Kokoro was not the beach, it was the months after. I came home with a much stronger focus, said yes to the right things, and said no to a lot that did not fit the mission. Matt had a similar experience, and we get into what actually stuck for both of us. Listen to that section of the episode.
Listen to the full conversation: Apple Podcasts · Spotify · or watch in the YouTube player at the top of this page.
There is nothing in this life you cannot do better if you are healthier, fitter, and stronger. Kokoro hammered that home for me, and hearing Matt describe his own version of it brought it all back.
The point was never the suffering on the beach. It was the clarity that came after, about purpose, about leadership, about family. Listen to the whole conversation and you will understand why I keep coming back to this experience.
The Tom Rowland Podcast brings you long-form conversations with the most accomplished anglers, hunters, conservationists, and outdoor professionals in the game. Listen to every full-length Tom Rowland Podcast interview.
Matt Lawson is a SEALFIT Kokoro graduate who completed the roughly 50-hour crucible event led by current and former Navy SEALs and BUD/S instructors. He took on the challenge while preparing for the birth of his son, using it to rebuild his health, clarify his priorities, and find a deeper sense of purpose. His story is a real-world example of how an extreme event can reshape an ordinary life.
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