Will Taylor: Guiding for Giant North Georgia Trout, Social Media, and Sponsorship

Full transcript of the Tom Rowland Podcast, Episode 2 with Will Taylor.

Tom Rowland: I'm Tom Rowland, and this is the Tom Rowland podcast. Hey, everybody. On today's show, we have a great guest, Will Taylor. If you're a fan of Saltwater Experience, you may have seen us fish with Will Taylor, and this interview was conducted right after we fished. Will and I got to be friends when first meeting on Instagram, exchanging some messages, then getting together to go fishing, and, really enjoyed the guy. He's super nice. We have kind of a mutual admiration for trout fishing, and he is catching some massive trout in the North Georgia area. So we talk about that. We talk about social media and the impact that it's had on fishing, what the future of that may be, what the future of distribution of fishing content might look like. And we go into a lot of things about how he got started and where he hopes to take his fishing career in the future. Really good. Really good conversation. I hope you enjoy it. Alright. Hello, everybody. This is Tom Rowland with Saltwater Experience. I am sitting here with my new friend, Will Taylor. Will Taylor comes from the land of North Georgia and also by way of Naples, Florida. Will and I have a interesting relationship, and something that's been happening a little bit lately with me is, having a fascination, I guess, with Instagram and looking around on Instagram, seeing what people are catching, seeing what people are doing, actually reaching out to those people and forming, you know, some sort of relationship. And so far, I've had some of the best fishing and met some of the coolest people by doing this method. And one being my friend, Graham Taylor, another, Melton Hill Bill, another, Ryan Nitz, and now Will Taylor. So Insta famous people, and it's it's really turned out. So, Will, I'm glad you're here. And, why don't you what's up? How's the trip so far?

Fishing the Florida Keys

Will Taylor: Good stuff, man. It was a great trip, great experience, and, I mean, it can't beat The Keys. I mean, it's the best place. It's an unreal place, unreal location, unreal destination, and, the fishing is unreal.

Tom Rowland: So you were saying that you haven't been to The Keys much, but you have some experience. Right?

Will Taylor: Some experience. I mean, it's more or less of the touristy Keys visit like everybody else, I think. And, The concours train? Yeah. Pretty much. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, you go down to go down to Key West and take your picture and, you know, do that thing and never really had a chance. It's always been super intriguing for me to get down into, you know, this fishery or these fisheries and really focus on these species that, you know, not a lot of the world gets experienced that we get to experience, you know, right here in South Florida. So Yeah.

Tom Rowland: It's a great time. And so you're spending some time in Georgia

Will Taylor: Mhmm. Sometime in Naples. How does that work? You know, it's, that was the original plan, you know, when I first started going up and, you know, opening, my shop and, you know, starting in the guiding business. And, you know, it's kinda developed and it kinda come to fruition that, you know, we've been just absolutely slammed, you know, all due to Instagram. You know, Instagram is a great platform for really anybody, you know, not just a specific person, but anybody. You can show people what you're about. you can show your products. You can show your fisheries. You can show anything you wanna show. And if you do it right and you develop the right relationships, you know, you can end up in places like this with guys like yourself.

Meeting Through Instagram

Tom Rowland: And so Instagram, is that your main focus, or do you do other stuff too?

Will Taylor: You know, Instagram is kinda where it started, you know, and that's really our main platform. You know, Facebook has been there as well. But, really, Instagram and Snapchat is really huge for us. You know, we try to put as many different experiences no matter where we're fishing. We try to put them all on Snapchat and Instagram stories, and, you know, we try to post as many as much content as we can have, as much content as we can find without annoying people, of course. Right. You know? It's, you know, there is a delicate balance there. And once you start putting up, you know, the content that we do, you know, it's, you know, you've gotta you gotta do that on a daily basis. And, you know, being down here is a perfect opportunity for me to really get in and dig in and really try to, you know, learn these species. And today was fantastic. I mean, I couldn't ask for a better experience. I mean, it was, you know, on the water with some great guys and a great crew and, you know, great equipment, and it just you know, you can't ask for any better. It just turned out great. I mean, it started out slow, which is fine by me, and it ended up perfect.

Reading the Conditions

Tom Rowland: You know, that's you're a fisherman. Every you know, it people see the people see the show, and people have some wild and crazy expectations about how that goes down, either that it takes us two weeks to film the show or that the fishing's always like it is on TV or, you know, just different lots of different expectations. And I hear people ask me all these questions about that. But the fact of the matter is that, you know, we are in the Florida Keys. There are 40 to 50 different species that we have the luxury efficient for. Both Rich and I were professional guides guiding and doing nothing else. No part time jobs or anything, just full time guiding. And when you're a full time guide, you know, it's not nice all the time. In fact, it's nice only part of the time, and those are the those are the easy days. The other days are the days where, you know, it's raining or it's cloudy or it's windy or it's the temperature just dropped or it's too hot or it's too cold or it's too something. And you've gotta figure out, okay. What are we gonna do now? Or the conditions are absolutely perfect. We were talking about this today about permit fishing in as one thing. Permit fishing is a romantic idea that a lot of people are in love with, but the fact of the matter is that, man, the gal on the back of the boat that's pushing it around with a stick has to really be in love with it. And when somebody comes in and the conditions are absolutely perfect for you know, I'm I'm sure you're the same, man. With your trout, there's a perfect condition probably for the big browns. There's a perfect condition probably for a different, you know, one of the rainbows or a different river. There's a perfect condition for something. There is definitely a perfect condition for permit, and there's an absolute imperfect condition for fly fishing for permit, and that's super slick calm. And when people would come in and they would wanna fish for permit, and it was super slick calm and people are crushing tarpon, that was one of the most difficult things. Absolutely, really, really, it would hurt your soul. Like, you do know what's happening out there, and you can't do it. And you're going out after a fish in the worst possible conditions. It may be pleasing to the eye, but it's the worst possible conditions. And you're going out there and trying to do that, and that really sucks the fun out of it. It really does. And I got to the point where I wanted to fish for what was happening at the time that it was happening and using the best method possible. That's that's kind of and sometimes that's fly fishing, you know, and sometimes it's not. Sometimes it's spin fishing. But, you know, I was looking at your Instagram here. So you've got will taylor project. That's that's on Instagram.

Will Taylor: That's my personal one.

Tom Rowland: That's your personal one. You've got, what, six let me get back up. I missed it. There it is. Will Taylor. 6,600 followers and 85. Sixty six eighty five. So we'll see what happens after this show Yep. And see if you get some more. And then you also have Flashhop.

Will Taylor: Right? Yep. Flashhop Co. Yep. Yep. Yep.

Tom Rowland: And that one is quite a bit bigger. Yeah. This one's 15,015 people. Yeah. And on this one, you're posting trout and a lot of the stuff that you're doing also in Naples. Right? Right. And so you were we were talking about it today, about the reaction between some of your followers on the maybe they don't they don't like the saltwater stuff.

Will Taylor: Yeah. It's interesting. You know? It's, obviously, we're, you know, very trout oriented or trout driven or whatever you wanna call it. So, you know, that's our target audience. So the second that, you know, a trout guy goes into the saltwater world, you know, people tend to get a little bit, you know, a little bit Really? Yeah. It's it's weird. You know? It's it's strange. It's strange just because you, you know, I think it's something like again, it's just one of those things that they need to experience it. You know, it you know, we talked about this earlier. You know, I went I was trout as a young age, and I went salt. Now I'm back trout, and now I'm trout salt. And, you know, it's it's just that, you know, that cold water, warm water thing. I mean, I feel like you need to do both. You know? If you feel like, you know, if you feel like you need more flies, you need more rods, you need more gear, man, go after a different species. Right. You know? And the same thing for saltwater, guys. You know? If you feel like you've caught every tarpon in The Gulf or every tarpon oceansider or every bonefish you've ever seen and it's nothing to you, you know, it you know, go challenge yourself, you know, chase a new species. And I think we see that. You know, I think we see a lot of guys, you know, going to, you know, different destinations in Argentina and Bolivia and Patagonia and Chile and Cuba now. And what's unique is that we have all we have good fishing right here at home.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. We definitely do. Yeah.

Will Taylor: And we and you don't have to spend a ridiculous amount of money and travel thousands and thousands of miles and inconvenience everybody in your life just to go chase fish that we have right here in Florida. Yeah. And as well as Georgia.

Tom Rowland: And with all the exotics, like, some of those guys in Miami are catching Oh, yeah. All kinds of stuff. Eric Paima, Pacu. I guess that's what they're do where they're doing, and I see them on Instagram. Some other guys I'm gonna call up one of these days Go and be with them too. But I really am having the best time, meeting people on Instagram. I don't know if you've done that before.

Will Taylor: I'm I'm gonna start doing it because it's it's a great idea. I mean, you know, when you see these guy and, you know, we do. You know, we have I have a I work with a very tight group of individuals just like yourself. Mhmm. And we sit around and we talk and we joke and, you know, we're like, you know, where's where's where do you think the fishing industry is gonna go? You know, where we go? Well, dude, where do you wanna take it? You know? Right. We're in control as far as we're looking. We can do whatever we want. And not just us. We as an individuals, as anglers. Like, we can take this sport as big as we want. Mhmm. with the platform that we have with social media, you can put it in front of millions of eyes. There are people that never even knew that you could do certain things in Miami and The Keys and Georgia and out West and wherever. I mean, before I came in, you know, to the picture and try to introduce, in our parts of the world, there's always been trout there. Always been trout there. Always been big trout. You know, always had some great fishing. You know, we talked about Tennessee having some of the biggest stripers in the States. You know, we talked about, you know, several things. But when people think about trout, you know, they think about out West. You might get a lot of that in the Keys. I mean, you know, of course, everybody thinks about tarpon and bonefish and permit and things like that. But at the same time, people tend to think about other places. You know? And I think that's where it's our job, you know, as, you know, semi just trying to figure it out for people. You know? So listen. You don't have to go to Montana. You know? If you live on the East Coast, you don't have to go to Montana and Utah. And great. Trust me. Most beautiful places in the world. Idaho, Montana, Utah. I mean, just all these places that you can go catch. You know, there's a million trout in the stream, a million trout in the but you know what? There's there's just as beautiful fish on the East Coast.

Trout at Home vs. the Western Trip

Tom Rowland: Yeah. Well, there's just as beautiful fish for sure, but there is the western experience. There is Absolutely. You know, the western drift boat, the cowboy Yep. The Yellowstone National Park, the wildlife. And that's all good, and it's something that should be on everybody's bucket list. But, also, you don't I guess what you're saying is you don't have to deprive yourself of trout fishing for the year waiting for your Western trip. And maybe if you try what you're doing Yeah. You might not even wanna go there anymore.

Will Taylor: I mean, I hear it I hear it all the time. I've got you know, I take people out and, you know, fathers will, you know, be in tears, you know, hugging me and saying, you know, you saved me thousands of dollars because my I've been taking my son to Patagonia for years. He hits a 30 inch brown, and we catch it in Georgia. Right. You know? And then two hours later, they're at a Braves game. You know what I mean? It's, you know, it's a it's a unique part of the world. You know? We get a lot of Nashville. We get a lot of Atlanta. Yeah. We get a lot of that Southeast, and we're doing as best as we can to make our community a true fishing community, you know, a true destination. And, you know, the most difficult part of that is when you have a true destination, you know, you have to have a destination river, a river that has a destination, you know, to it. It's one of those things that, you know, it's it's a challenge, you know. And it's not just me. It's the community that has been trying for you many, many, many, many years. And, you know, I think it's going well. I think it's going well. And with platforms like social media, man, it's, you know, it's get your

Where the Fishing Industry Is Headed

Tom Rowland: You certainly get your message out there. I mean, this is a great example. I mean, the chances of us running into one another probably are slim. Right. But, you know, sometimes if I'm spending time in other parts of the country you know, I've got three kids. So I've got a 19 year old that's at Montana State. He's he's trout fishing and hunting and doing all kinds of stuff out there. Then I have a 17 year old that's way into fishing right now. He wants to do every kind of fishing. And I have a 13 year old daughter, and she's she's somewhat into fishing. But I find myself in different parts of the country, being, I guess, a lot more, how should I say it? I feel like everybody else sometimes. You go to a strange part of the country. I don't know where the fly shop is. I don't know what's happening. I don't know what the, where who the local guides are, and I'm kind of at a little bit of a loss. You know? Like, I'd like to go fishing right now, but where? Right? So and a lot of the local trout shops have, Jason, just make the drink already. And our photographer came in the door, and, he's trying very quietly to put ice in the cup, but he should just make the drink here. Louder when you're trying to be quick. Dimple. Yes. But as I'm going in these places that I don't know and my son's saying, hey. Look. It looks like there might be some fish over there. Okay. Maybe we should stop and try. And people think, well, you know, you make your living as a fishing guide and a television guy. You should know where all the fish are, but you don't. If you don't fish there, you don't know. And Instagram and Facebook and all of the social media has been fantastic for that because Hayden is following all of these people. And, he's showing me all of these things, and I'm like, wow, man. That is actually really cool. And you know what? It's not far away, and we should go do that. That's right. So I started reaching out to people and just talking to them and finding out, hey. You know? What's the best time? All these different things. And actually going and having some great experiences. But it's, it's really cool. I like the I like the social media. I'm I'm fascinated with it, actually. So we're running all of our social media out of one office. Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter are our main platforms. But it's growing, and people are really into it. And if you look around at the restaurant or whatever, everybody's got their face buried in their phone. So they're doing whatever kind of social media they're into. Some of it might be fishing, but I kinda doubt it. I think they were looking at other So speaking of changing that, like you say, you know, you and your friends sit around wondering which direction the, the fishing industry is going in. I'd like to know what where do you see this, the fishing industry going? That's actually a question that we got on social media tonight, when we posted this, the a picture of our permit. Where do you see it going? Where do you see it right now, and where do you

Will Taylor: See it going, I guess? You know, it's, you know, fishing as an industry as a whole is absolutely huge. You know? It has its ups and downs like any industry does. Fly fishing specifically, I think, has grown so much just in the just since I've been in the industry. But, you know, as for the past five, ten years, I think people like yourself and other people in the industry are seeing more and more individuals picking up a fly rod. I like to see that because the culture that surrounds fly fishing Yeah. You know, the catch and release, the conservation, you know, the other things that, you know, may not be interesting to some individuals, but is very, very important for not only, you know, the sport itself, but, you know, the future generations and even the current anglers. You know? One thing that I hear all the time is, man, you know, this fishery, you know, if you could've just seen it fifteen years ago. Yeah. You know, if you could've just seen it ten years ago. You know? And they're complaining and, you know, it's you know? And it's guys that are passionate about the industry. And that's what it needs. You know? It needs guys to get passionate, to be involved, you know, and try to keep, you know, keep fishing around, you know, for future generations because it is something that one of those things, it's it's based on natural resources. So, you know, when those resources are gone, then, you know, what do we do? You know? And, you know, I'm sure like yourself, you know, myself, I you know, as early as I can remember, as young as I can remember, I've always had you know, I was always on the water. You know, whatever that was. Whether it was a creek or a river or a bay or the gulf or whatever it was, you know, you're always out there. You're always trying to get better. You're always trying and that's what I think is so intriguing about just fishing as a whole is you're always you know, you never know. You know, you go out every day, and you just never know. You know, today, I mean, there was so much involved with today, and we just had no clue what was gonna happen. Right. You know, it was just like balls to the wall. Let's go. You know? And it's that one fish, and you're like, alright. We got that one fish. You know, we broke the ice. We're good. And then you get that second fish, and then you get that her fish, and you're like, alright. You know, this is

Tom Rowland: A fun, good time.

Will Taylor: And then you're like, alright. Now it just got epic. You know? This is, you know, this is what it's about. And, you know, to be able to share those experiences with people out there via social media or whatever it is it may be, that's the special part to it. That's the part that I enjoy about it. That's I get to I get to enjoy my daily routine through photography, through social media, through whatever. And it's it's it's so it's so cool, and I'm sure you feel this way too. It's so cool to be able to post your experience online and share with people and other people get involved that they're liking it, making comments, and doing all these things that just drive you to make to do better content. Right. To be better, to do more things, to travel around. You know, it's funny because, you know, you say, you know, you have this little project you're working on where you're contacting people on Instagram and things like that. And that was something that I then, you know, that I told my wife about. I was like, you know, I was asked today, you know, if I could fish with three people, you know, who would those three people be? Who would the people that I would choose from?

Tom Rowland: Who asked you that?

Will Taylor: It was one of my guy. It was one of my trips. So who are they? Oh, man. I can't you know, I'm fortunate enough to fish with a few of them, and I'd have to look up their names on Instagram, but they're on Instagram. You know, these are guys that, you know, they're not famous. You know, they're not getting paid. You know, they don't have sponsors. You know, they don't have, you know, $5,000 cameras and $3,000 lenses. They don't have all that. But what they have is an amazing fishery. And what they have is that passion and that drive. And those are the guys you wanna fish with. Those are the guys you wanna be like, listen. Like, you have something special here. You know? I've noticed it. Everybody else noticed it. The world isn't noticing it. You know? It's a matter of time before there's lots of these guys around. Yeah. Lots of these guys that will be able to show, you know, hey. I'm in the middle of nowhere. You know? Nobody's around. Nobody's around. But you know what I got? I've got the most amazing public waters you've ever seen in your life. You know? Or I've got, you know, species of fish that you just didn't think to get this big. You know? And that was something that was unique about our areas. There's always been big fish there. Always. You know? Always.

What Makes North Georgia Trout So Big

Tom Rowland: Well, there's something about those. I mean, I haven't fished your water yet. I'm going to, but I have been to the Soque, and I have been to some other of the that area. And I know the mystique about the North Georgia water. And I don't know what it is, but I've heard that there's a special mineral content to that water that's not found anywhere else. But, I mean, there are lots of people that feed trout in ponds. There are lots of people that feed trout out west in rivers. There are lots of people that feed trout all over the place, and they don't get the size of trout you're having. That's gotta have some and the same with the Soque. There's there has to be something to the water or to the insect life there or to something is different than the other than, you know, other places because you can feed trout all you want. That doesn't mean they're gonna grow to those sizes.

Will Taylor: No. And especially in that type of water. You know, you're talking about monster of fish.

Tom Rowland: Tell me well, I'm I'm getting excited about this trip, so I don't know what your water is. Explain paint the picture.

Will Taylor: Well alright. So, you know, it's, we have a little bit of everything. You know? And in our particular town, Blue Ridge, Georgia is, in Fannin County. Mhmm. And Fannin County has been endorsed by the state as the trout capital of Georgia. And since then, I wouldn't even say since then. Before then, it was kind of a fishing community. But since then, it's really become a focus. You know, we have lots of guides like anywhere else that's a fish you know, that's a very fishy town, and we have lots of guides and lots of people that are in the industry and a community that's behind it. And that's what's so special and so unique about it because, you know, these private fisheries and these levels of conservation that we do, you know, it's not one person. You know? It's a team of people. Mhmm. You know? You can't do anything, really. I mean, I would not gonna say anything, but you can't do anything to this type of magnitude on your own. You have to have a team of people. You have to believe everybody has to be on the same page. When you come and you do fish these waters, you have multiple choices. You can get on a drift boat and go down with Toccoa. You can get on a drift boat and go down the Hiwassee with bigger water streamers, throwing them at big browns. My particular favorite is creeks. I mean, I love chasing big fish in creeks. You know? Some days are there, some days are not, just like everywhere else. You know? And we've had a we've been in a serious drought for over a year now, and water levels have been down. Water temps have been up. Been losing a lot of fish. You know, it's very hard, on trout. You know, trout are very, you know, very, very sensitive species.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. They don't like the heat.

Will Taylor: Not at all. You know? And when the water temperature gets up so high, even certain types of trout just might even just die off. You know? They can't find the elevation they need to get in the cooler water or, you know, especially with the lower water like we've had. Mhmm. They can't they can't get where they need to be because there's not enough water to get there. You know? So we you know, from year to year, it's a challenge, you know, and that's what's a challenge for these private fisheries. But to paint a picture for you, as far as, you know, the fisheries and whatnot, my favorite is just creek chasing. It's one of those things where the public water or the rivers or whatever you wanna call them, WMA property, whatever it may be, you know, those are types of waters that they're they're public water. It's like what you've got here. You know? Here, it's a little bit harder to fish and, you know, whatever. But, you know, if you're a little bit more north like Naples and, you know, in that area, Fort Myers or Estero and things like that, you know, the public water, you know, you might see five, six boats a day. And it's the same out west. You know, you can go drift, you know, drift rivers and Yep. You might see 15 boats. And that's what I think is so unique about, you know, private water, and you get to really, really enjoy your experiences as a as an angler. Mhmm. You know, I get you know, and I'm sure you get this too. But, you know, 80% of my clients don't have never even touched a fly rod. You know? They've seen it you know, they see it on TV or they see your Instagram or You know, it's crazy. And, you know

Guiding First-Timers and the Team Approach

Tom Rowland: You're getting 80% of your clients who've never touched a fly rod, and you're taking them out to catch some of the biggest trout in the world.

Will Taylor: And they do. And they do. Wow. And, you know, it's it comes down to figuring out your model. Right. And being able to take that application and teach somebody in a short period of time, put them on water, and become successful. And like I said, it's not a it's not a one man game.

Tom Rowland: You know? And it So when you say it's not a one man game, what are you who are you talking about?

Will Taylor: Okay. So, you know, when you're out there and you're a team. Okay? So whether you have two anglers with you Mhmm. I like to have one guide for two anglers because you just that to be able to have the experience, you have to be able to focus on your clients. And these big fish are you know, they're smart. You know, they're I call them PhDs. You know, they that's what they are. They've seen flies. They have their certain diet and certain menu that they like, and that's just what it is. And, you know, and we were talking about this earlier. You know, even if fish is not hungry, if the right presentation is there, they're gonna eat. And as a as an angler and more of a trout angler or trout fisherman is you've gotta learn that finesse. You know, you gotta learn that finesse. And, you know, when you're on big water and you're throwing, you know, big lines, nine foot rods, and you're airing it out and all that stuff, that's great grand. But you know what? That's on TV. You know what I mean? Nobody's throwing 60 feet, 70 feet of line on a river. You know? If and if you are, hey. You know? I don't you know, there's trout right there in front of You know? That's how trout are.

Tom Rowland: But where's the team come in?

Will Taylor: The team comes in as you know? When you're hunting these big fish and you're fishing, I'm the captain, and I'm spotting fish, and I'm looking for fish, and I'm hunting fish. And I'm saying, you know what? This fish is done. Let's move on. You know? And I can't catch this fish. All I can do is tell people how to catch this fish. Yeah. You know, and big fish are different. You know, it's you know, most of the trout that we target, not gonna land them on your own. And if you do, it's bad for the fish. You know, if you're if you're out there with a four weight and you're spending thirty minutes fighting a fish. Right. it's not good for any fish. I don't care.

Tom Rowland: So you're you're talking about the you're you're getting the person hooked up Oh, yeah. Then you're netting the fish.

Will Taylor: Getting the person hooked up, talking them through every moment. You know, we have a lot of structure on our water. That is another big issue, for a lot of new anglers. You know, but what I really enjoy about new anglers is they don't have bad habits. Mhmm. You know, I can have guys come down, you know, my Florida guys or whoever, my bass guys or whatever. You know, your bass guys are trying to come up out of their shoes trying to set the hook. You know, my Florida guys are stripping out 80 feet of line, you know, and the trout's 10 feet away, you know. You know, and it becomes and by the end of it, you have this, like, you're you're in sync with each other. You know? You have that you have that comfortable silence with each other. You have that those emotions with each other. Because I tell you what, man, I don't care who you are. You go catch a 25 inch brown Yeah. It's gonna change your life. Yeah. That's just reality. You know, I don't care if you don't even if you're not even into fishing. You know, I've I've taken people out there before. By the end of the trip, they're like, I want this, this, and this, and this, and we wanna book you for the next three years on the same day. You know? And then that's what you know? And that's kind of a thing at the end of the trip that you're like, as a guide and as a professional, you're like, I did my job. Yeah. You know? I did my job. But, you know, we try to take things to the next level. You know? We try to be like I was telling you earlier, we try to be five stars across the board. Whether it's my wife intervene with, you know, reservation plans and making any type of any type of issues you might have with getting to the town or the airport or lodging or whatever it is. We try to get involved as much as we can. And that means lots. It's it's the special touches, you know, because a lot of people when they're they're like, we don't even know where Blue Ridge is. You know, where is Blue Ridge? You know, how far is it away from the closest international airport? How far is it from Nashville? You know, can I drive there? Can I, you know, is there an airport? You know, all kinds of little questions that go. And like you said earlier, you know, a guide's job is when you wake up, you turn on. Right. And you don't turn off until you go to sleep. And, you know, you can and you even hear clients say this, and especially clients that have been on many, many, many trips with, with professionals. You know? They know. They know your job doesn't end when you go home. You know? You gotta prepare for the next day. I mean, hell It never ends. Never

Tom Rowland: Ends. It never ends. And, you know, it's funny to hear you say that because there are a lot of guides who wish they were anglers, and I ran into this a lot, that they would start guiding because they really wanted to be the fishermen. They really wanted to catch all these fish, and they found a way to get into the guiding, and they got into the guiding. But the whole time, they're on the back of the boat. They're thinking, man, I'd like to be on the front of the boat. And I just kinda found that it was two different modes. I had two completely different modes. I was in guide mode. I had no interest in touching the rod. If somebody said, here, catch the fish. I'm not interested in touching the fish. I'm I'm I'm not interested in catching. I know I can catch that fish. Or maybe I'll save it for a day off Right. Or something else. But this day is about you. This day is about you catching this fish. I'm here to help you with that. And if you don't wanna fish anymore, then, hey. Let's just take a break. Right. Right? It's not about me taking off and going fishing because I learned that from a the person that I learned to guide from, two people, really. My first guide job was in Jackson, Wyoming. Bressler Outfitters. Verne Bressler started the Orvis endorsed guide program. He was, a hard ass. He was a really an old son of a bitch is what he was and had great attention to detail. And his son, Joe Bressler, gave me my first job. And like we were talking about a little bit earlier, when I first started guiding, there were there was the period of time that was pre River Runs Through It, and then there was the period of time that was post River Runs Through It. And, you know, what you're talking about getting your spiel down to get these people up and running and catching fish really quickly, well, that was somewhat important before the movie, and then it was really important after the movie because everybody out there had new anglers. Right. And the boat ramps are crowded like nobody's business. Nobody's ever seen this many people fish before. That also had to do, you know, around the time the Gore Tex waiter came in. So all of a sudden now people are much more comfortable fishing, and that had a big influence on the number of anglers. Just went absolutely nuts. But my Yvonne Bressler, when he first, one of the things that he told me, he said, now you're not supposed to be fishing out there. If I ever hear somebody come back and say, well, I didn't catch a big one, but the guy caught a huge one. He was like, you're fired. And I was like, okay. I get that. I see that. Like, that could be really bad. And then, you know, he taught us all about, you know, when you come in, how you know, to be in a to be in a an outfit type thing. You don't come in and start running your mouth about all the fish you caught or this did that. You don't talk about that. You come in. Did you have a nice day? That's awesome. We had a really beautiful it was so beautiful out there. Never talked about the numbers or the size or anything like that, and just this guide etiquette of just, you know, this is how you carry yourself. This is what you do. And you don't wanna come in and say, well, we only caught 18. Right. Which might be a bad day for you. Right. But this guy struggled to catch three, and he was super happy and on top of the world before you came in running your big fat mouth about catching 18. And now he's like, oh, well, I guess I didn't have such a good day after all. You know? But, Verne Bressler was you could not have learned to guide from anybody better than Verne and Joe Bressler. I mean, they were old time cowboys that just they knew how to do it. They knew what you were supposed to do and attention to detail, and that carried over into the saltwater for me right away. And that's a big reason why I had success early here was because I was relying on the things that I had learned there. And, you know, Jason that's behind me editing pictures somewhere, we talk a lot about what is it to be a good guide. And a good guide is it doesn't matter how many fish you catch. It doesn't matter how big they are. A good guide shows somebody a good time. When they get off the water with that person, they've just had the most enjoyable day outside that they've ever had, and they wanna do it again. And if a big fish comes along with that and, you know, enhances that Just about it. That's awesome. Yeah. But guiding is you know, I a lot of people ask me about guiding, and I wanna ask you about how you got into it. But a lot of people ask me about it, and I'm like, man, it's a noble profession if you take it seriously. And if you take it seriously and you do, you know, really your best at it, and you try to bring professionalism to a profession that sometimes it doesn't exist. Sometimes it does. And some of the best guides that I've ever been with are right here in the Florida Keys and also some of the worst. Yeah. You know what I mean? It's it's some of the best and some of the worst. And the best ones are just that. They are true professionals booked for life, and they'll stay that way. But how did how is it that you happen to get into guiding?

Opening the Shop in Blue Ridge

Will Taylor: You know, when I first, when we first opened the shop. When's that? God. When was that? March 2015. Yeah. March 2015. Yeah.

Tom Rowland: And how old are you?

Will Taylor: And, 35. Okay. Yeah. You know, it was something that me and my fiancee at the time, my wife currently

Tom Rowland: Lovely Lisa right here sitting next to us. We only have two headsets.

Will Taylor: And, when we moved up there, you know, we went up there with nothing but, you know, positive thoughts, positive vibes, and we opened the fly shop. You know, we really didn't know about the guiding end of it. You know? You know, I've always been an angler, and I've always, I guess, you could say guided. But, you know, it was more or less of just taking your friends fishing and whoever else fishing. And, you know, I had a couple mentors that were, you know, kind of, you know, older individuals that, you know, were kinda just old school anglers out of Texas and things of that nature. And, you know, my uncle played a huge role, in introducing, you know, angling into my world. Mhmm. And, you know, when we moved up when we moved up to Blue Ridge, it was just kinda like, you know what? We gotta do this. You know, we gotta take it and run with it. You know? You know? And one thing is, like, like, if one person can do it, why can't I? You know? And it was one of those things where, well, how do we be better than the next? And how do we take this to the next level? And I think that is really what has driven us is that we're always trying to take it to the next level.

Tom Rowland: So what have you done?

Will Taylor: It's all about the community. Whether or not we're doing good or whoever it is doing good in the area or whatever, it's it's not gonna work if the community is not behind you. And, you know, we try to get the community behind us, and we got them behind us. And it's a great little community, and I grew up there. And, you know, it's a lot of you know, you know, you walk into the post office, and, you know, five people So

Tom Rowland: Do these people see that you're bringing in high dollar cost customers that are spending money in their town?

Will Taylor: They do. They do. And Blue Ridge is a very new happening place. It's very close to Atlanta. Got a

Tom Rowland: Lot of flannel shirts and skinny jeans there.

Will Taylor: Lot of flannel shirts. Lot of

Tom Rowland: I know there's some skinny jeans around where I live too.

Will Taylor: They're not skinny now. Now they're just spandex. Like, they're a little bit closer to spandex than skinny. But no. But Blue Ridge is, and that's what fly fishing does is it kinda it does attract It

Tom Rowland: Shrinks your jeans? It does a little bit.

Will Taylor: It does. It does. You wear jeans actually, you wear skinny jeans in the creek. Yeah. That's part of the experience, actually.

Tom Rowland: It shrinks them. Apparently, it doesn't. If you're

Will Taylor: A 36, we're gonna put you in a 32 today. My

Tom Rowland: Gosh. Yeah. Yeah. Not understood.

Will Taylor: So, you know, it's, you know, I've done, you know, a series of short films that is kind of like a trend in the angling world. You know, there's a lot of really talented guys. I'm talking just insanely talented. With some of the technology they have and what they do and the content that they put out, you know, I was able to just like yourself, I reached out to these guys. I worked with these guys. I said, listen. You like Trout? We've got big Trout. You know? We've done a lot of shorts, and I worked with a lot of fantastic, photographers and videographers in the business. And, you know, these films have definitely helped out the community, if not North Georgia or even the Southeast even. You know, some of these view some of the amount of views that we're getting on some of these fly fishing films is astronomical.

Tom Rowland: Like what? You know? Like How much?

Making Films and Free Content

Will Taylor: One of them we have probably I think it's 265,000 views on one. That's pretty impressive. Yep. We just put out a I just put out a little short

Tom Rowland: And where do people see those? Where do you where do you put them? YouTube?

Will Taylor: Mainly Vimeo. Vimeo. Yeah. There's some issues with it with the YouTube with, some licensing issues and things like that. So Music? Yep. Music is the main issue. So Vimeo has kinda been the hub for these new talented individuals to be able to expose themselves to the world. Yeah. And, you know, the recent film we just did was probably about a month and a half ago we put out. I did that one with, Patrick Grea and his uncle Nick, and, man, they had over a 100,000 views in a month.

Tom Rowland: Wow. On Vimeo. On Vimeo.

Will Taylor: And you're talking about fly fishing films. You're not talking about, you know, anything else. You're talking about a such a small part of the world that is even interested in this. Yeah. You know, so when you have a 100,000 people viewing something, you know, it makes you feel like, you know, people are really getting interested. You know? And working with these guys and, like yourself, working with the professionals that you work with, you know, being able to put your artistic view on things and be able to really dig in and do these things, you know, you have kind of like the river runs through it But on small scales. Yeah. And it's I mean, you wouldn't believe how many times, like, every day somebody's putting on a new film. Every day somebody's putting on something. And it's crazy. And most of these guys are doing this for free, pro bono. You know? They're not getting paid high dollar money from sponsors. Yeah. Yeah.

Tom Rowland: My son is all into it right now, and he's following all these guys and watching all these movies and watching the ones that you're making too. And he's totally in. Totally. That's all he wants to do. Totally. And, you know,

Will Taylor: You could fish all day, and you're with your buddies and everything, but the first thing you wanna do is go home and eat it.

Tom Rowland: Here's here's his, here's his thing right here. He just sent me this. Let's see how let's see what it looks like. He says this is the first draft of his Oh. Of his new video.

Will Taylor: He's throwing it. Yep. He's throwing it. Is he throwing pancakes?

Tom Rowland: I think he's throwing fish food. Oh. I think that

Will Taylor: Is that up in Chattanooga? Yeah. Oh, there you go. There you go.

Tom Rowland: So he's shooting this with a, a Sony a 6,300. Fantastic camera. Look at that, albino trout. Oh, yeah. I love that. They put some albino trout in this pond, and he's he goes over there and just beats the dog shit out of it.

Will Taylor: He just loves it, doesn't he?

Tom Rowland: Yeah. And he's just totally in. So, I mean, this is exactly the example of what you're talking about. My son's an artist. He can draw amazing things. He can take amazing pictures. He has the interest. And with that photographer's eye, he's gonna do great. Oh, yeah. And he will be one of these new filmmakers. And, obviously, he gets to go to some pretty cool places. I get to take him to some places, but this is exactly what you're talking about. And then we have, you know, another project that we're into is this Waypoint TV. And that is really one of the big focal points of Waypoint is to provide a place. You know, like you're saying that YouTube has its challenges and Vimeo has its challenges. Vimeo has its challenges that if you're if you're getting a 100,000 views on something on Vimeo, that's really good. Oh, yeah. That would probably translate to 500,000 But, still, I don't know. There's there's no place for advertising. Right. So, like, you're saying they're doing it for free. doing it for free, not because they wanna do it for free. They're doing it for free because they have to do it for free, and it's unfortunate. So Waypoint, the whole idea behind Waypoint is to protect the producer sponsor relationship, and that sponsor relationship is not protected on YouTube because YouTube can put ads in before our shows or your movies or anything else. And you can turn off all the ads, and they still put some ads in. So that's probably the worst thing that you could do in a sponsor relationship is to allow someone else to come in there. And you've you've paid for this movie as a sponsor, and then here's your competition paying 1¢ a click to be in front of that. So Waypoint, the whole idea is that the producer maintains the opportunity to keep that pre roll advertising. So it's a selling. It's something that can be sold to the sponsors. It's something that can be, you know, as a tool to generate income for these movies. And that's huge because, you know, you got you gotta understand that,

Will Taylor: Like, I'm on the forefront with these guys. Yeah. And that's the frustration.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. They don't know how to sell well, first of all, they don't know how to sell, which is very, very difficult for Was yeah. Yeah. And it's it was hugely difficult for us, and that was the biggest challenge to getting the television show off the ground is how do we get sponsors. And so many times when people are asking questions about sponsors, it's it's our history is that, you know, I was just a trout guide. And then I came down here, saltwater guy, doing well, had a small relationship with Orvis. I could get some tackle on discount, but I was by no means sponsored by anyone. My first sponsorship came from Scott Fly Rods. My second sponsorship came from Rio Fly Lines, actual paid sponsorship. But the road to getting there was unbelievably difficult. And to get them and I had to travel all over the country doing casting competitions for the International Sportsman's Expositions, hundreds of free seminars, writing articles, doing everything that I possibly could. Of course, we didn't have social media back then. But the road to sponsorship is difficult because it's not based upon what you've done. You have this movie that has a 100,000 views. Okay. Well, when you go to present that to a sponsor, it means almost nothing to that sponsor because they're gonna say, okay. Well, how do we know that the next movie is gonna get anything? Right? And so that is where these young filmmakers have to begin to understand that you have to be able to sell them something. Right? Like, you can't just go out and make a movie and with the rods that you like and then go to that company and say, don't you want to pay me for using your rods here?

Will Taylor: Happens all the time.

Tom Rowland: Happens all the time. And it's backwards. You have to get the person to be interested. Tell them coach them up on what you're gonna do, and maybe they wanna be interested. And you know what? Sometimes maybe you have to go use somebody else's rods. And That's right. And that can be a real personal decision and a real it's full of turmoil. Totally. Has been with me.

Will Taylor: Oh, yes. I'm here.

Tom Rowland: Because I'm loyal like a dog. Mhmm. And I don't wanna ever wanna do that. Right? But sometimes, if the project is that important to you, then you have to Find the partners that are gonna allow you to do it. But Waypoint is a very, very cool platform that is designed for those young people. And I'm happy

Will Taylor: You're putting it filmmakers. And, you know, I'm happy you're putting it out there like that because the more people that will hear this podcast, the more people that will know that, it kinda gives them that hope, that light at the end of the tunnel. Like, you know what? There's true professionals that I can go to, that I can depend on, that I can that I can put my work on their platform, and I know that it's gonna get to the right audience.

Waypoint and Monetizing Fishing Content

Tom Rowland: Waypoint is kind of our platform. You know, it's it's it's kind of our platform, but it really everyone's platform. I mean, it's really almost like a YouTube. I mean, we kinda started it, and it was our kind of idea. But now it's being embraced by the hunting industry and the fishing industry, and it's and it's and it's taken off.

Will Taylor: Well, that's all I was gonna say.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. It's not my platform. It's everybody's platform. But what these guys have to see and be excited about is, man, I can do what I wanna do, and there's an opportunity to make money from it. And it's not just making money. Making money is a small part of it. What it is you can do what you're what you're excited about doing, and you can help the company to do what they wanna do, sell more stuff. Right? So everybody wins, and everybody nobody's taking advantage of anybody. You're providing a service. They are paying for a service that they're happy to pay for, but a sponsor doesn't wanna pay for something that they're not gonna get or they have no guarantees. And then when they when even you throw a third party in there of a ad advertising agency or somebody like that who says, well, you know, let's boil this to a cost per thousand. And what you're doing with this guy, and I see it, the good quality and everything, but you're paying, you know, 50 times more than what we normally pay.

Will Taylor: Mhmm. And I'm glad you put that out there because a lot of people don't realize that even exists between the companies and the PR companies.

Tom Rowland: Right. Well, it certainly does, and most people don't understand that. But most people also think that if you win a tournament, that you're entitled to some kind of sponsorship, which couldn't be further from the truth. Because if you win a tournament, that doesn't mean that you've done anything to sell anybody's product. What companies are interested in is they're interested in the guy that does 200 free seminars at Bass Pro or whatever at the local floss shop every weekend Mhmm. For free. Mhmm. Never asked for a dime. Right. Never asked for anything. But he's touching, you know, hundreds of people Right. That because he's been nice to those people and because he's taught them how, they're gonna buy whatever he want whatever he says That they should buy because he's coming from the heart, and that's the people that they wanna get behind. And it doesn't matter if you won a tournament. You won a tournament. That's great. Who knows if you're ever gonna win another one? Right. Right? So the key to sponsorship is having something that you can sell someone a guarantee. Like, I don't know how many views my movie's gonna get, but I guarantee you that every time it plays, your commercial's gonna be in front of it.

Will Taylor: That's right. You can't do

Tom Rowland: That on YouTube or Vimeo No. Or any other place. right now No. Waypoint's the only one. Yep. And, so I hope that I mean, we're getting more and more short films on there all the time.

Will Taylor: So let me ask you, just for the listeners out there, if an individual wanted to release a short film and Vimeo is a platform they're used to and they know YouTube is not, Do they contact you? Do they contact Waypoint?

Tom Rowland: Bill yeah. Waypoint. Bill de Brock is the one that's, that's running all of that content acquisition, and he's constantly looking and contacting those people. But, obviously, you know, there's a lot of young filmmakers that aren't on his radar or whatever. So builder Brock, builder@waypointtv.com, and that's a that's his email address. And it goes straight to him, and he'll look at the content. And if it's up to snuff, then, of course, we wanna work with whomever. You know, we want the highest quality video content available. That's right. And, you know, it has to bottom line, it has to be something that the fishing industry is proud of. Right. Right? Like, not people falling off boats and Right. Funny videos that get tons of stuff, and we're even questioning whether or not you put instructional stuff on there. Our best thing that we've ever produced, I've produced a uni knot video way over 2,000,000 views right now Just for a knot video. Yeah. Right? So that tells me that there are a lot of people that are interested in both freshwater and saltwater fishing. This uni knot video that I did, I started with the, with the hook, uni knot to the hook, double uni knot from the fluorocarbon leader to the braid, double uni knot from the braid to the mono backing, double uni knot to or uni knot to the spool of a spinning reel. So it's one knot that you can use for the entire application, spooling a reel to the hook. Right? So, obviously, it's it's cool. One knot. Great. You can use that. That's the only knot Rich Tudor uses.

Will Taylor: Only way to do it.

Tom Rowland: Only way that's that's the only knot he knows. I'm He doesn't need another knot.

Will Taylor: He don't. He really don't.

Tom Rowland: I like knots. I and do it. Hundreds of knots. He fishes the uni knot double.

Will Taylor: Yeah. That's it. That's all

Tom Rowland: He uses. And there's nothing wrong with it. His stuff doesn't break. You know? It works. But we're questioning whether or not that's a that even that is that a good thing to have on Waypoint, or is it should it just be high quality video? And so we're getting more and more, and people are more interested. Hunting has now moved over, and that content is coming quickly. But, you know, those movies and those opportunities, I think are only gonna increase Mhmm. As the cost of the cameras come down, as you know, my son in a little Pelican box like that can have an a 6,300, two GoPros, and a drone and have more production capability than we had the first eight years of saltwater experience.

The Growth of Hunting and Fishing Media

Will Taylor: Yeah. And you can get all that for under a couple thousand bucks. Right. 2,000 yep. Yep. All day long. And it's you know? And people you know? I'm I'm very new to photography. Mhmm. And, it's something that I'm learning every day and working with guys like, you know, your crew and Mhmm. everybody that I work with. I always pick up a little bit here and there. And, you know, we feed off each other's artistic view artistic style and whatever else. And people ask me all the time, you know, like, you know, like, what camera should I get? Or, you know, what lens should I get? You know? I'm like, listen, man. I'm like, the best thing to do and is just find something that is affordable for you and master it. You know, I shot with a beater for almost a year Mhmm. Before I even ever even decided to even invest into a nice SLR. And, and, you know, and ever since then, of course, you know, your game just elevates. But before you get there, you know, you have to, you know, you learn your equipment. You know, you have to learn, you know, production. You gotta learn what other guys do, what other guys don't do. And be a sponge, like, with anything. Be a sponge. You know? You know? Any anytime you go do something new, take in everything you can. Don't be the guy that's always talking in the room. Be the guy that's always listening in the room. And it's really helped us, and that is really what propelled our business. You know, we're we're, you know, we're building a brand. You know? And this is what we talked about earlier. You know? It you know, the big fish and the media content and the films and everything that's involved with it is there to build a brand. You know, you have companies like, you know, Yeti and Hook and, you know, all these companies that spends hundreds of thousands and millions of dollars branding and building this brand and building this brand. We have all those tools. Everybody, not just us, but everybody. Your son, all these younger individuals, younger, they have all these tools to do the same thing. So go out and get it. Go out and get that content. One thing that, you know, you guys, professionals, the guys that do this for a living, know, you guys can only be on the water so many days out of the year. You know, there's only so many things you can see. There's only so many fish you can catch. There's only so many destinations you can visit. You know, there's millions of people out there that can see things that you'll never have a chance to put on film. And that's what's so intriguing about your little project that you're working on and how we met. Mhmm. Because, you know, you saw something that was like, wow. You know, I didn't even know. You know, this is close to home. You know, I've been out west forever, and I've done it all. And I've never seen anything like this. You know? And that's what a lot of people get. Well, you know, imagine if, you know, more than 1% of society was fly fishing or an angler. Imagine if 10%. Imagine if 20%. Then we wouldn't have these issues with conservation and all these other things. More people would be involved. More money would be involved. More things would be, you know, I guess, sought after. You know?

Conservation and Protecting the Resource

Tom Rowland: Well, what do you think about the current status right now? We just have a new president. Yep. One of the things that I hear a lot of my friends talking about is possibly and you've heard it a little bit on the news. Possibly selling off public lands, possibly privatizing parks. How do you what do you see the next four years happening?

Will Taylor: That's something that's not gonna take four years. That's something that's gonna take a decade, maybe two decades. You know? Whatever ball decides to get rolling in whatever direction, it's gonna take a little bit to get there. It's gonna take, you know, these selling off public lands and selling off WMA and things like that. You know, it's only gonna hurt, you know, what we're trying to do as professional anglers or as outdoorsman Mhmm. As you would say. Because hunting, hunters, anglers, you know, whatever, hikers, you know, anybody that likes to be outside, anybody likes to be, you know, that's gonna affect all of us. Yeah. You know, and it's something that if we don't all come together, you know, you guys are dealing with a lot of that down here in the Everglades. If we don't come together, not just with, you know, politicians and professionals like yourself and the other day. Like, all of us all of us being involved. You know? It's we have to do our part. You know?

Tom Rowland: I would I've been saying that if there was one thing that would make me go riot in the streets, I mean, it would be to sell off the national parks. Yeah. Oh, yeah. But even just the I mean, in that and I hope that would never ever happen. But public lands, national forests, all of that, I mean, it just it really troubles me that could even be a thought that you would sell that off for a quick buck because it's it's really ours.

Will Taylor: I mean, that's Once it's gone, it's gone.

Tom Rowland: Right. Once it's gone, it's gone. And you know what? That happens here often, and I will eat my words on this one because I've seen the marine patrol or the sign you know, any sort of scientist working together with the National Marine Sanctuary. I've seen them close things. They closed, the, Boca Chica Beach in Key West about twenty years ago, and we used to go fish Boca Chica Beach. And you could catch a couple bonefish. There were a few permit there, and the tarpon would run through there. They closed it and said that they were gonna do fish counts. K? They were gonna reopen it. Well, they've never reopened it, and there's no reason for that to be closed. They'll close it to you and me going and flinging a feather in there, but 50 jet skis can go and beach their jet skis up on the sandbar and start drinking margaritas, but we can't go through there and catch and release a bonefish.

Will Taylor: And leave the margaritas. Closed. Yeah.

Tom Rowland: It's been closed for twenty years, and it has not reopened. And that I've seen other places get closed and not reopened. And the scientific data not be made public saying, you know what? This we're still studying this area. This is why we still need to keep it closed. That really bothers me. I will eat my words on this, though. They closed Joe Bay up in the Everglades for thirty years for crocodiles. And just this year, year, they opened it up. Rich and I went back there with paddleboards and went up there. It's a no motor zone. Can't take a boat in there, but you can go in there now for the first time in thirty years. And we went up there with paddleboards, and I don't know if we went the right wrong time of the year or what. We didn't see. I saw two Jack Cravelles about, you know, 20 pounds, saw four Jack Cravelles about one pound, and a few mullet, and two baby little crocodiles. Wow. So I don't know what's up with that closure, but I sure am glad it's open. Right. And I think I don't know if the fish are why the fish weren't in there, but they weren't in there. And we didn't have good luck. We caught a couple of mangrove snappers, and that was it. But that, to me, whether we caught fish in there or not, was huge That the park service actually reopened that. That was an amazing thing, and I'll eat my words because I've been saying, man, once it closes, it'll never reopen. Right? And I do believe that about once it's once it's sold off, you're never getting it back. Never. And I hope that's not something I don't know that you're you're dealing with that around the North Georgia area, but you are surrounded with, national forests. And, you know, they start selling that off and building hotels. Not good.

Will Taylor: And so that's there's something to be said. You know, you could take a hike or, you know, do whatever, and you can actually stand in one place and say, you know, I'm probably the only person that's ever even been here before. You know, maybe. It's possible.

Tom Rowland: Certainly today. Yeah. You know? Or this week or this month. There's no reason for somebody to go there. We're we're so fortunate to have so many areas like that throughout The United States. It's it's that's that's one of the my favorite things about living in The United States. You look at a you look at a state like Idaho on one of those maps where the public lands are green, and Idaho is green. It's as green as that wall right there. It's incredible. I mean, there are vastly more areas that are wild lands and your land, my land, than there are places that are populated in Idaho. That's why that's probably one of my favorite states because you could just pretty much get off the road anywhere and you're in public land. You would almost have to try to trespass in Idaho, but probably a lot of the good stuff's in that's probably where a lot of the good stuff is anyway. Well, that's cool, man. Well, I like, I like hearing your story. So when you have young people asking you, you know, they see what you've done. They look at the movies that you're making. They're they're asking you how do they how do they do this. What do you tell them?

Will Taylor: We were very fortunate just being able to, you know, have so many people involved, including my wife and, you know, other family members and just being able to have, you know, a team behind you. You know, we talked about that. You know, being able to have the creative minds around to be able to do that. You know, what I think is probably the magic I don't know. Maybe the magic equation or algorithm or whatever you wanna call it is just I guess, maybe somebody asking me, like, how do you how do you do this? What do you do? What is it that you what is it you think about? You know, what's the type of content that you're looking for?

Balancing Work, Family and the Future

Tom Rowland: You know, there's just talking about the content so much. I mean, that's that's something different. That's that's, you wanna make a movie? Go make a movie. Right. This is more along the lines I get this. You're 35. I get emails from people all the time. I hate my job. I wanna be a fishing guy. Gotcha. K? You have another job. Right? Oh, yeah. Okay. So but at some point, you decided you kinda wanted this, but you also have this, your other job. How do you how do you talk to somebody about that's what they have? They've got a regular job. They either wanna quit it and be a fishing guide, or they wanna do what you've done and really take a risk and do something different. You know, there's a balance to it. You know, everything has to have a balance. Not in my life. Yeah.

Will Taylor: We try to manage as much as possible when my wife and I and do everything, but it's a risk. You know? It each other and said, you know, we're jumping into the deep end. You know, we just went all out. And then she's my support group, and she's kinda the person that, you know, even when I'm saying no, no, no, no, it won't work, she's saying yes, yes, yes, it will work. You know? Just have faith in it. Just do it. You know? And it's one of those things where, you know and anybody can do it. Anybody can do it. You know? If you wanna if you wanna quit your job and you're miserable at your job and whatever else, I tell you what, man, there is nowhere else in the world that you feel more alive when you're on the water. If you're an angler and you're on the water, you're in the creek, you're in the boat or whatever it is that you do, there's nothing that you feel more alive. You make people happy. You're you're sharing experiences. You're showing people part of your world that nobody would ever see. That's the most rewarding part of it. Think about the end game. Think about, you know what? It's not about going out here and trying to find sponsors and get free shit, and I'm sorry about that. But, you know, just, you know Doesn't matter. It, you know, it's not about free stuff. It's not about get being on pro staff. So it's not about that. It's about enjoying what you do for a living. What whatever it is. And if you're an angler and you're an outdoorsman, find something that you enjoy and go after it. You know, it might take a year. It might take two years. It might take five years. I don't know. I don't have the I don't have the right answer for that. But what I do have the answer for is one day, when that when everything just clicks, when everything just comes together and falls together, you're gonna stand there. You're gonna be in your boat. You're gonna be with a client. You're gonna have a personal moment to yourself. You're gonna say, it was all worth it, man. Because all the risk, all this I mean, there's probably times that when you're first when you're in your first part of your career and you were in a drift boat out west and you're just sitting here drifting, you're like, man, like, what am I doing? You know? Like, I don't know if I made the right decision. You know? I've got a I've got a wife. I've got a family. I've got a baby on the way. You know? What do I do? It's gonna take me a thousand trips to be able to just get

Tom Rowland: Boat out west. It was a it was a Redfish tournament in Louisiana and a hurricane coming over Key West, two little babies, and my wife evacuated to a fish house. And me not being able to get out of Louisiana, and I'm wondering what am I doing. That was the that was the start of Saltwater experience, by the way. Me saying, I am done with these stupid Redfish tournaments, never doing another one again. You can have it. Yep. Yep. And driving home and concepting how can we do kinda something like this and sleep in our own bed every night. That's right. That's how we got it started.

Will Taylor: And we talked about that earlier. You know, it's one of those things where we don't know which avenue we're going. We don't know what part of the industry we wanna be in, you know, all that good stuff. But, you know, I think that, you know, it's important for people to realize that, you know, you can make a difference. You know, you don't have to be a guide. You know, you don't have to be, you know, you don't have to be a filmmaker. You don't have to be a photographer to get out here and enjoy these things like we all do. You know, just be a part of it. You know, it's a conversation piece. You know, we could sit down and say, oh, yeah. You know, this is what I did today. Oh, yeah. This is what I did today. Well, you know, if you don't enjoy that, you don't absolutely love that, then why are you doing it? You know, I know that we have jobs, we have responsibilities, and I do too. You know, everybody does. But if you can do what you love to do every single day, you know, everybody's heard of the cliche stereotype. You know, you're not really working, but it's true. You know? And until you feel that, it

Tom Rowland: It's not really working, but it took eighteen hours

Will Taylor: Of your day. Long time.

Tom Rowland: Long time. Just didn't seem like work.

Will Taylor: It doesn't seem like work.

Tom Rowland: I mean, a vision guide a vision guide works. The vision guide works.

Will Taylor: And, you know, and guides work. You know, I don't you know, for people that are listening to this, you know, tip your guide, you know, because he is working his ass off. You know, he his job starts at 4AM, 5AM. It doesn't end till twelve, you know, 12AM the following day. I mean, it's one of those things where we like to show you our world. And the best that we can the best we if we can do that in any particular way that might be, I don't know, intriguing to others, that's what we're about. You know, like you said earlier, man, it's it's, you know, it's not about you know, I get more enjoyment out of holding a net and netting fish and seeing people smile and clap and high five each other rather than any ever catching a fish. You know, people ask me all the time. You know, I'll take buddies fishing and I'll I'll like, even now, I'll take buddies fishing to my fishery and wherever else and they'd be like, why aren't you fishing, man? I'm like, dude, I live here, man. I could do this every day. You know? Yeah.

Tom Rowland: You don't. Well, that's cool. Well, I have no doubt that you're gonna be very successful at it. Alright. We're gonna start wrapping this up. So rapid fire, tell me, tell me three things you like to do outside of fishing. Oh, man.

Rapid Fire and Final Advice

Will Taylor: Three things outside of fishing. I mean, you know, at this point in my life, fishing consumes my life. So it's very hard to do those three things, but family is a big priority. You know? It really is. And when you get married and you have a child in a way and, you know, you have a different focus. You know? And I think being a good father and a good husband, I think that's gonna be something I'm really gonna be able to enjoy, something I'm wrecking really you know, it's gonna change my life for the better. You know? It's gonna be one of those things, but, you know, everybody has hobbies. I really enjoy photography. I really enjoy that, side of things. It's it's something that really, really kinda gets me going. I mean, there's nothing that, you know, excites me more than just, you know, just being a part of that whole world, you know, that whole kinda what you guys would do. Yeah. Yeah. And tacos.

Tom Rowland: Yeah. Tacos. Really like tacos, man. Tac

Will Taylor: Tacos should have been the that should have been the first answer. You know? It's, taco night is the show every night. So family, photography Hit tacos.

Tom Rowland: And tacos. Alright. That's cool. Hey. Those are three good answers. Alright. What's the best piece of advice anybody's ever given you?

Will Taylor: Oh, man. Obviously, it wasn't that good. Yeah. I you know, I it I've I've been told a lot of things, and it kinda really sets stone. But you know what one person can do, another person can do. You know? Don't limit yourself. You know? Don't ever put yourself in this category of, you know, I can't. You know? Just go out and do it, man. You know? If you fail, you fail. We all fail. You know? And it's one of those things where, you know, I tell my guides all the time that the guys that are new to the business and everything, like, listen, man. You're gonna fail. You know? You're gonna get nos. You're gonna get nos. You're gonna get nos. And then when they get that first yes, it feels that much better. You know, and you get that second yes and that third yes. But, you know, just keep trucking, man. It's not, you know, it's you know, do what you love and love what you do, and, and things will fall in place. It might not be this might not be what you, you know, what you set out to do might not be the end game. You might find it a totally different path Yeah. Chasing that avenue. You know? Yep. And, you know, that's what's so neat about the fishing industry is you can, you know, you can in the outdoor industry, you can do absolutely anything you want.

Tom Rowland: That's that's definitely good advice and good advice that you gave others. Proudest accomplishment?

Will Taylor: Man. I'm I'm a have to say my wife since she's in the room.

Tom Rowland: You better say your wife because she's in the room.

Will Taylor: And my daughter on the way. I mean, it really is. I mean, it is you know, it 35 years old, it's, you know, it's it's family time. You know? It's it's it really is my greatest accomplishment. You know? It I'm proud of a lot of things, but they all disappear when you think about your family. You know? You've got your family and, you know, you keep them close to your heart, and you're only gonna get you're only gonna grow as a man and as an individual and as a family. And it's a special time in my life. You know? And it's cool to be able to share that with people, you know. And so it's, it's been a fun ride, man. That's for sure.

Tom Rowland: Well, I have no doubt that, that you're gonna be doing very well. I'm very impressed with you. You're you're well spoken. You're you definitely got your priorities in line, and I have no doubt that you're gonna do some great things in this industry. And first thing that you're gonna do great is put me on a really big crowd. So taking you up on it. We're coming back. We're gonna finish. You're gonna have part b of, of the show that we filmed today. But, anyway, get let everybody know how they can get in

Will Taylor: Touch with you, and, we'll wrap this up. Yeah. We you can find us on, you know, Instagram. It's fly shop co, and, my personal is will taylor project. And you can, email me at will@flyshopco.com. Website's fly shop co dot com as well. Yeah. Just, contact us and, you know, book your trip of a lifetime. It's it's it's it's the real deal. The hype's real, man.

Tom Rowland: Right on. Yeah. Right on. We'll we'll make sure to do another podcast when we get up there after that. But you're a stud. I appreciate you sitting down with me for a little bit. Appreciate you coming down.

Will Taylor: Anytime. Anytime you, brother.

Tom Rowland: Thank you, my friend. Thank you.